Official BBR Tier List v5

[Kuraudo]

S'all good. Stay ****, hard counterpick.

 

[Seagull Joe]

hey Joe, your wolf main bias is showing.

This is true, but look at every mid to low tier character matchup vs D3. Lets go through the list from C to G tier alone starting from bottom up infinite legal:

- Horrid.
- Can't approach reliably from my knowledge.
- 100-0 if you cg to edge and release.
- Bthrow does 16% and she dies like at 80 something from Utilt .
- Infinite.
- Not a reliable approach or easy way of killing.
- Small step cg.
- Infinite.
- Limited ways of approaching and offstage=stock.
- I don't know what Yoshi vs D3 is, but I imagine it's at least 40-60.
- Ivysaur=Cg to release at edge probably, Charizard is so fat and gets grabbed easily, and Squirtle is good, but you can't always stay him and stamina will eventually kick in so he won't be able to kill .
- Cg to the edge and release to death by bairs probably. Also, grab release to whatever.
- She's ok vs D3 cause she can't be cg'd, but when she is offstage she is likely trapped to get either gimped or forced to recover onstage and punished some more. Plus, she can't kill him FOREVER.
- He gets grabbed from almost everything he does. Cg to offstage release>Bair gimp=stock as well.
- CANNOT KILL HIM FOREVER.
- Cg's are a pain in the *** and he can be infinited at the edge. He doesn't die till like 180 usually from Cg>Dtilt, but D3 does almost 40% just across Fd alone, which must be banned.
- What approach...?
- Infinite, otherwise not too bad a matchup.
- Cannot kill D3 for the life of her. Float approaches can just be beaten with like Utilt or a Bair. He also has an easier time vs her offstage by comparison.
- Not too bad if Pit planks forever and avoids the cg, but most likely an evenish matchup.
- 100-0.
- Not bad at all. Probably slightly Fox's favor 55-45.
- Only Kirby I've seen beat D3's is ChuDat, while the others fail because D3 just outright beats Kirby with his weight, priority, and grab.
- TL has to time him out almost always????

In the upper tiers he still beats Wario, Snake, Lucario, Marth, and infinite's himself quite painfully. I can only think that he loses to Ics, Olimar, Mk, and Falco, yet I only think Falco is 45-55 or 40-60 at worst. Falco just can't kill him. I've seen Coney also beat almost every Olimar ever other then Dabuz, which means the matchup cannot be THAT bad. Pika vs D3 is evenish. Mk and Ics destroy him, but no one else. Without Mk, then D3 would be top 3 in my eyes .

 

[Poltergust]

Actually, Yoshi vs. King Dedede is near-even, just barely in King Dedede's favor.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Actually, Yoshi vs. King Dedede is near-even, just barely in King Dedede's favor.

Well I guessed 40-60, which is close to 45-55. I was unsure on that one as I stated.

 

[Poltergust]

I know, just saying.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Same for sonic (he cant kill till super late but he combos and juggles him fah dayz)

and shiek (see what i said about sonic)

and puff (shes never on the ground, hence, shes never getting grabbed.)

and zelda (its one of her only matchups that shes usable in)

 

[Lenus Altair]

- Not too bad if Pit planks forever and avoids the cg, but most likely an evenish matchup.

Correct
10 char.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

- Ivysaur=Cg to release at edge probably, Charizard is so fat and gets grabbed easily, and Squirtle is good, but you can't always stay him and stamina will eventually kick in so he won't be able to kill .

Grab-release at the edge won't kill Ivysaur--If he D-Throws from really close to the edge, he can make a hard read to KO, but it's really not as easy as one might think.

Charizard spends half the match using Flamethrower and using really safe moves--It's actually rather hard for Dedede to grab him, and it makes the matchup somewhat close to even, I feel.

If Squirtle can get Dedede off the level, it's incredibly hard for Dedede to get back, fatigue or not.

Overall, it's still in Dedede's favor, but as long as there are platforms to abuse, Squirtle and Ivysaur do fairly well, and Charizard just puts the match at a standstill.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah Zeik shines in D3 MU b/c both do each other a nice favor what the other couldn't do alone.

If you play as sheik, prepare to get punished for a lot of attack attempts unless you camp and space really well, and gl trying to kill earlier than 170% lol.

Zelda has strong limitations, but when you've racked up enough damage as sheik, Zelda actually has a decent defense scenario helped along by D3's sluggish movement, and she fills the killing niche that sheik lacks in the MU.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

- Cannot kill D3 for the life of her. Float approaches can just be beaten with like Utilt or a Bair. He also has an easier time vs her offstage by comparison.

Who the devil approaches with Float

Oh right, the trillions of awful Peach's out there, that's who

Float works fine vs Up Tilt but Bair shuts it down like you said which is why you don't Float without covering youself or if D3 has his back to you/is about to jump/is jumping...which obviously makes things a bit annoying so you just have to approach via the ground...which Peach should be doing anyway. I would argue that the offstage thing isn't that bad thanks to Turnips and Up Smash but recovering vs Dedede can be veeeery dangerous indeed if Peach doesn't get it exactly right. Bair is really gay though - that combined with CG and nasty kill power definitely sticks the MU as a disadavantage for her (although some people thinks it even but I disagree with that)

Btw, being a Peach main and all, I'm afraid I don't understand this concept of 'killing'

Sorry


And just to stick it out there - Floating ISN'T an approach tactic; it's a baiting tactic UNLESS you've covered yourself with a Turnip and even then that's to bait a reaction from someone (i.e. making them dodge or stick their shield up)

Floating as an approaching option is normally a bad idea (and I'm pretty certain lots of Peach mains will agree with me). Peach is much better off staying on the ground when she has to approach in any match up and then going up for a Float when she's within mid range where her moves can really pose a threat

 

[Coney]

don't mind seagull, he's half-trolling.

i mean solidly beating everyone below D tier is great and all for, um, the first round of a tournament, after which ddd enters a world of mks, falcos and diddys.

oh and kid, ddd MURDERLIZES jigglypuff, everything else you said is true though. basically we don't have to worry, bair beats literally everything and trades with pound, it's a terrible matchup

 

[Thebest1pj]

Didn't m2k violate X after he dropped those two games to him? Like yea X won 1 games but after those m2k said 'oh wait this is sonic lol hur" and ***** him.

X beat lees lucario btw.

 

[Goldenadept]

who's more salty, yoshi fan boys or sonic? =/
wolf main (meaning auspher) get 3rd place regardless

 

[Conviction]

who's more salty, yoshi fan boys or sonic? =/
wolf main (meaning auspher) get 3rd place regardless

LOL I say Zelda or Pit mains are more salty actually.

Or that one Ganon main who took Ganon was S Tier and quoted like the whole Tier List and said it was wrong.

 

[phi1ny3]

Didn't m2k violate X after he dropped those two games to him? Like yea X won 1 games but after those m2k said 'oh wait this is sonic lol hur" and ***** him.

X beat lees lucario btw.

Esam beat Lee's Lucario.

Lee's Lucario is good, but he's not very good MUwise (imo his best MUs w/ Lucario are Falco, Marth, ICs and maybe MK, but I feel he lags behind in most others and relies on raw skill to muscle his way through). He doesn't use Lucario often, so that's understandable.

lol I remember someone on commentary saying "WOW Lee Martin combo", and all the lucarios were like "Dude that's ooooooooooooooooold news, every lucario does that lol".

 

[Steam]

Yeah it's pretty agreed upon by lucarios that the top lucario mains (Zucco/June/Trela) have surpassed him.

 

[Deleted member]

D3 getting Lucas offstage=stock? Please explain.

@Goldenadept, notice nobody responded to my post earlier about Wolf moving up.

 

[Poltergust]

who's more salty, yoshi fan boys or sonic? =/
wolf main (meaning auspher) get 3rd place regardless

Neither seem saity at all, really.

Wolf mains are super-salty, though. They've been salty for such a long time that they created a mountain's worth of salt.

"My character sucks and should be bottom-tier!" Yeah...

EDIT: I guess if Wolf is going to move, it'll be up, but I don't see him moving much at all.

 

[Deleted member]

"My character sucks and should be bottom-tier!" Yeah...

I was always against them doing that.... >_>

Some people thought we were serious, lol.

 

[Poltergust]

It seriously got annoying hearing that over and over again, though. It sounded so immature.

"OK, no one is giving Wolf a chance, so we must all proclaim how much he sucks in order for people to sympathize with us and make us feel good about ourselves!"

At least, that's the vibe I always got from those comments. >_>

 

[Goldenadept]

I'll never care where wolf is cause it doesn't really matter in the end but it'd be cool if the good wolfs out there got more recognition for what they've been doing, wolf has had very solid results for the last year.

the whole E tier thing is just an inside joke we all made up in our social, no one really takes wolf serious though so it makes sense they wouldnt take the whole "E tier" thing seriously either xD

 

[Deleted member]

I was annoyed by the E-tier claims as well, Polt, but the Wolf moderator was in on it as well, so there wasn't much stopping it. I tried, but he just made more "Wolf for E-tier" social titles.

::sigh::

Edit: GA, that's what my post was about, earlier. Wolf getting results. Naturally people ignore the positive about a character they think is "bad" and only like to talk about "flaws".

Or they'd just rather talk about Sawnic.

 

[Ishiey]

Most of us actually just wanted low-tier money

I'm pretty sure both Wolf and Sonic are going to end up in C tier for the next list. C tier should be huge imo.

 

[Chuee]

LOL I say Zelda or Pit mains are more salty actually.

Or that one Ganon main who took Ganon was S Tier and quoted like the whole Tier List and said it was wrong.

This?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te6WkqQfSmc

 

[Poltergust]

XD

The PUNCH.

 

[Lokinario]

Do you guys think Ganon is leaving G Tier?

 

[Spelt]

No .

hes placed in more than one national dude. what about sin2 where X took two games off of m2k?

sin2 was a local. There was like ... 40 people entered.
and did you even read my post? I was talking about when the sonic hype train begun.
aka the MLG where x and espy placed. and right after people started going "LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL SSS TIER HE'S SOOO BROKEN"

edit: 33 people.

& yes, i do hate sonic as a character. are you going to argue with me about this now? try harder.

 

[BSP]

I understand this. That was just in response to BSP saying that you should stop riding his results up to D3. and I said that if we're ignoring his MU spread, he's basically saying to put sonic under D3 >.>

ZSS I guess. Lucario does too but his "gimmick" works both ways

1. Ignore the OUTDATED MU spread. We do need to consider his MUs, but the MU thread really needs to be updated.

2. Sorry, but I remembered ZSS and Lucario being thrown around as gimmick characters for a while.

When I said up to D3, I was responding to what DMG said about there's a point where you have to stop riding results. I didn't think zamus and lucario were considered serious contenders so that's why I said it should stop at D3. If they are, I would say stop there. Sonic probably won't get put behind D3, and I don't think he should (yet), but I do think the back end of B tier is arguable at this point. I'll be fine with C though, he's definitely earned that.

I don't think he gets enough credit because the first lists established that low tier status, and it's hard for people to change their minds.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

2. Sorry, but I remembered ZSS and Lucario being thrown around as gimmick characters for a while.

Only because they -are- gimmick characters.

Their gimmicks just happen to work rather well sometimes.

 

[Spelt]

Only because they -are- gimmick characters.

Their gimmicks just happen to work rather well sometimes.

Same with Snake and Diddy.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Same with Snake and Diddy.

No way. Invisible hitboxes and the best out-of-shield option in the game are super-reliable.

 

[Steam]

well if we have no MUs to consider... what are we gonna do then lol?

edit: GTFO reflex D:<

 

[Goldenadept]

I was annoyed by the E-tier claims as well, Polt, but the Wolf moderator was in on it as well, so there wasn't much stopping it. I tried, but he just made more "Wolf for E-tier" social titles.

::sigh::

Edit: GA, that's what my post was about, earlier. Wolf getting results. Naturally people ignore the positive about a character they think is "bad" and only like to talk about "flaws".

Or they'd just rather talk about Sawnic.

the only thing i have against the sonic hypetrain is the character himself, i abhor sonic and all he stands for, as far as brawl goes though i think a (small) rise has been earned in most regards.
same with wolf

 

[infomon]

the only thing i have against the sonic hypetrain is the character himself, i abhor sonic and all he stands for, as far as brawl goes though i think a (small) rise has been earned in most regards.
same with wolf

What is it that Sonic stands for that you abhor?

Like, as a child you were traumatized by a Sonic Sez video or smthg??

 

[Steam]

sonic told me I couldn't touch people inapproapriately

 

[infomon]

yes, he did...

but perhaps more appropriate?

 

[Lenus Altair]

What is it that Sonic stands for that you abhor?

Like, as a child you were traumatized by a Sonic Sez video or smthg??

I'm too slow... I'm too slow... I'm too slow...

 

[Chuee]

What is it that Sonic stands for that you abhor?

Like, as a child you were traumatized by a Sonic Sez video or smthg??

He stands for running away like a little *****.
Well, in brawl he does anyways :3

 

[Goldenadept]

What is it that Sonic stands for that you abhor?

Like, as a child you were traumatized by a Sonic Sez video or smthg??

its more of, i had fun playing sonic games as a child, then i realized they werent that fun, then they had the bright idea of making awful sonic shows, then awful sonic games, then awful games with sonic in it, then they added more awful characters (besides knuckles, he's pro)
so i already hated sonic for all that.

then...the sonic fanboys got to me. it doesnt matter how bad it is, if sonic is in it they'll play/buy it and encourage that horrifyingly bad developement team to keep churning that crap out.


personal feelings aside i do think that sonic mains have been doing very well for a D tier character is he's earned a small boost

 

[Spelt]

then...the sonic fanboys got to me. it doesnt matter how bad it is, if sonic is in it they'll play/buy it and encourage that horrifyingly bad developement team to keep churning that crap out.

This is one of the reasons i hate sonic.

Others include his voice making me want to kill myself, and his design. but most of his design flaws have to do with the whole sonic art style sucking in the first place.