Official BBR Tier List v5

[ShadowLink84]

I don't hate on sonic but I don't think he deserves any form of significant raise.

To quote a wise man

 

[NAKAT]

To quote a wise man

Lmao!

 

[Browny]

fox is significantly better than sonic imo, unless sonic has a near even MU with metaknight that I magically don't know about.

There is at least... 500 things you dont know about sonic, chances are this is one of them. Your posts here prove that beyond all doubt. Im not suggesting Sonic goes even with MK, but I can re-arrange your post as follows;

unless sonic has multiple high level players that I magically don't know about.
unless sonic has winnable matchups vs all top tiers that I magically don't know about.
unless sonic has safe approaches that I magically don't know about.
unless sonic has kill set ups that I magically don't know about.
unless sonic has disjointed attacks that I magically don't know about.

etc.

 

[Nestec]

wolf has no unwinnable MU's
wario is harder than D3 if the wario knows the CG cause wario cause actually, you know, keep up with wolf. something D3 is woefully inept at doing when the wolf is running away

If you're the 2nd worst Wolf on Smashboards, who is the first worst?

Referring to your sig.

:green:

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wolf is the worst character in the game.

 

[Goldenadept]

If you're the 2nd worst Wolf on Smashboards, who is the first worst?

Referring to your sig.

:green:

that honor is KRD's i beat him in a wolf ditto match and lost the ability to call myself the #1 worst wolf

and yes, gheb is correct, wolf is the worst character smash has ever seen

 

[BSP]

I completely agreed with you aside from what you originally said about Top of C Tier. I also think Sonic is a better character than ROB, Pit, Luigi, DK, Pit, and Peach. However, I do think Fox, Wolf, and Kirby might be a bit more debatable. And Toon Link is definitely better.

:green:

I think Tink will be debatable in the future, but I can agree to what you said.

Back to Fox. Doesn't he have CP trouble?

 

[Chuee]

Stages?
Yea on brinstar and RC.
but so do IC, D3, Falco, Snake, etc

 

[JayBee]

wolf for worst character?
that is a lie from the pit of hades, sir.

i personally dont care if sonic is "slightly better" than fox in this metagame or not, but i do feel like they should be right next to each other.


I think Fox's weaknesses are easier to exploit overall, but he makes it up for it in a few ways. Sonic is a guy thats harder to exploit his weakness in this metagame. the kill potential he lacks, its a problem (his only real problem i think), but many top sonics will time people out nowadays negating most of the need for them to frantically search for that kill, especially on stages like pictochat, where sonic's opportunistic style really can be used here. he racks damage well enough that people are realizing how gay he could be if he had a significant lead. the rat can escape nearly anything so chasing him down can take chunks of time off the clocka.

 

[Deleted member]

wolf for worst character?
that is a lie from the pit of hades, sir.

That's the sound of Wolf players giving up arguing, lol.

 

[Spelt]

I don't think some people realize what gimmicks actually are.
Then they throw it around to make it seem like they know what they're talking about.

 

[JayBee]

as a yoshi player i truly beleive you know what you are talking about.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I don't think Fox and Sonic are better than Toon Link, but I do think Toon Link is B tier.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I don't think Fox and Sonic are better than Toon Link, but I do think Toon Link is B tier.

You say this and people respect that.

I might say Link is high tier and people tell me I am stupid without a second glance.

Oh, how having your opinion respected and not flamed is gained only by having the popular opinion. The woes of the world.

 

[Spelt]

i think falco is b tier and nobody takes a second glance.
that's probably just because people realize i'm insane, though.

But with the new tournament director BBR thing making the ruleset, which will most likely have a LGL, falco won't technically suck anymore.

 

[Coney]

wolf can beat ddd

it's just outrageously, hilariously difficult and would probably involve a timeout, considering wolf's aerial momentum is so good and ddd's is so garbage

 

[Deleted member]

If the Wolf can flash cancel consistently, Wolf's aerial mobility is insane and it would make timing D3 out easier. This was being discussed recently in the Wolf boards.

I've yet to see a Wolf time someone out, though.

 

[Juushichi]

Coney, you're so good goddamn. Wish I would have been able to stay and watch more of your matches. Clearly the best D3 in the nation, probably the world.

That being said, even with what coney has shown, D3 is clearly only secondary status, can't be a tournament threat and should only be the top of mid tier. He's clearly only a '08-'09 character.

 

[Tesh]

DDD clearly isn't a tournament threat because there was no LGL? Well I guess Snake isn't a tournament threat either against 100+ edgegrabs. Who IS a tournament threat with no LGL?

 

[Savon]

DDD clearly isn't a tournament threat because there was no LGL? Well I guess Snake isn't a tournament threat either against 100+ edgegrabs. Who IS a tournament threat with no LGL?

MK. Maybe Pit in the hands of a godly player?

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Since this seems to be a topic of conversation on and off as of late:

How it is now:
C: Toon Link, Kirby, Fox, R.O.B., Pit, Peach, Donkey Kong
D: Luigi, Wolf, (Zelda/Sheik), Sonic, Ike, Sheik, Ness, Pokémon Trainer

How I see it in yet another version of my tier list idea that will probably change within a few days:
C: Toon Link, Kirby, Sonic, Fox, Wolf, Pit, Peach, R.O.B.
D: Donkey Kong, (Zelda/Sheik), Ike, Luigi, Sheik, Ness, Yoshi

Only reason Fox and Wolf are so high is because Peach, R.O.B, and Pit have all been doing nadda more or less. Step it up you three, I wanna drop the two space furries back where they belong.

 

[Blacknight99923]

I hate to break your hype about sonic. x but he just lost twice to a socal random in tournament who mains oli snake and MK


I guess sonic deserves the hype
get ***** thread


edit anuar might win this tourney. The socal PR agreed not to use any character above C tier for this tournament

 

[Nidtendofreak]

That's not even close to breaking Sonic hype.

Sonic still had two top 8s in MLG. That ain't suddenly going to prevent him from rising potentially over Fox. Silly antiSonic person, one bad tournament never changes anything. Get real already boy.

 

[Blacknight99923]

yeah and this mlg dude lost to anuar who isn't ranked.

My point still stands.

you know the match up sonic sucks, or is mediocre and does not deserve a significant raise


and this 1 tournament buisness rofl

MLG was one tournament, call it 1 bad tournament for people who didn't learn their match ups if you want to play it that way.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I hate to break your hype about sonic. x but he just lost twice to a socal random in tournament who mains oli snake and MK


I guess sonic deserves the hype
get ***** thread


edit anuar might win this tourney. The socal PR agreed not to use any character above C tier for this tournament

1. all three of those characters throughly beat sonic.
2. nobody here is hyped about sonic, most people here have come to an agreement on where he belongs and youre just being a stanky little hater.
3. Is espy still making that money? Yup. Is speed still placing high? yup. Am I still about to take names at apex? yup. Thats the difference between sonic and other mid/low tiers. you take away one main and theres still a bunch more doing work.
3.1. What does wolf have without kain? not much. What does Pit have with out Koolaid? not much. What does luigi/peach have without... well they dont really have anything anyway. What does Sonic have with out X? A bunch of great players and No anime.

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

Why does Kirby escape the C Tier hate that ROB, Pit and Peach are currently under when he is essentially a big blob of lol Bair and hasn't really done anything spectacular


Peach's results have been pretty consistantly decent, she just hasn't had a massive breakout like all the other characters no one used to care about have recently, she had that in 2009 IIRC (not factoring in Europe)

 

[Blacknight99923]

1. all three of those characters throughly beat sonic.
2. nobody here is hyped about sonic, most people here have come to an agreement on where he belongs and youre just being a stanky little hater.
3. Is espy still making that money? Yup. Is speed still placing high? yup. Am I still about to take names at apex? yup. Thats the difference between sonic and other mid/low tiers. you take away one main and theres still a bunch more doing work.
3.1. What does wolf have without kain? not much. What does Pit have with out Koolaid? not much. What does luigi/peach have without... well they dont really have anything anyway. What does Sonic have with out X? A bunch of great players and No anime.

its true that the people above him have little representation, I don't hate on sonic I don't know why you peope think that, he just doesn't deserve a significant raise.


sonic might be better than peach or luigi( I don't really know a lot about either of these 2, so its concievable he is and I won't argue against it) but he isn't better than wolf or pit

 

[Smoom77]

Why does Kirby escape the C Tier hate that ROB, Pit and Peach are currently under when he is essentially a big blob of lol Bair and hasn't really done anything spectacular


Peach's results have been pretty consistantly decent, she just hasn't had a massive breakout like all the other characters no one used to care about have recently, she had that in 2009 IIRC (not factoring in Europe)

I agree with post paragraphs in this post. Nothing really happens with kirby.

 

[stingers]

those "tiers are for queers" people were definitely right...brawl does not really need a tier list.

 

[z00ted]

why do people not see Peach results? All legitimate Peaches are in stacked areas.

 

[Browny]

Lol

either blacknight is a troll, or is so full of delusional bias against sonic, arguing with him is pointless either way.

This thread now bores me.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

those "tiers are for queers" people were definitely right...brawl does not really need a tier list.

This is the wisest post in this thread.

 

[Nestec]

sonic might be better than peach or luigi( I don't really know a lot about either of these 2, so its concievable he is and I won't argue against it) but he isn't better than wolf or pit

My honest belief is that if Pit was doing as well as Sonic right now, I would call Pit the better character. In other words, I feel like Pit is the better character overall. But he's hardly doing anything. So Sonic deserves to be higher.

Are you basing your judgments purely off of your perception of the characters' traits? Because you can't seriously ignore how much better Sonic is doing than Pit.

Wolf > Sonic is a bit more agreeable though. I'm not entirely sure.

Why does Kirby escape the C Tier hate that ROB, Pit and Peach are currently under when he is essentially a big blob of lol Bair and hasn't really done anything spectacular

This I don't understand either...

---

My attempt at a current tier list...

S: Metaknight
A: Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, Marth
B: Wario, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, DDD, Lucario
C: GaW, ZSS, Toon Link, Fox, Sonic, Wolf
D: Kirby, DK, Peach, ROB, Pit, Ike
E: Sheik, Luigi, Yoshi, Ness, Lucas, PT, Bowser
F: Mario, Samus, Link, Zelda, Douglas
G: Jigglypuff, Ganon

:green:

 

[Blacknight99923]

My honest belief is that if Pit was doing as well as Sonic right now, I would call Pit the better character. In other words, I feel like Pit is the better character overall. But he's hardly doing anything. So Sonic deserves to be higher.

Are you basing your judgments purely off of your perception of the characters' traits? Because you can't seriously ignore how much better Sonic is doing than Pit.

Wolf > Sonic is a bit more agreeable though. I'm not entirely sure.



This I don't understand either...

---

My attempt at a current tier list...

S: Metaknight
A: Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, Marth
B: Wario, Olimar, Ice Climbers, Pikachu, DDD, Lucario
C: GaW, ZSS, Toon Link, Fox, Sonic, Wolf
D: Kirby, DK, Peach, ROB, Pit, Ike
E: Sheik, Luigi, Yoshi, Ness, Lucas, PT, Bowser
F: Mario, Samus, Link, Zelda, Douglas
G: Jigglypuff, Ganon

:green:

I don't base my opinion off americans alone. This is not a rankings list. If I am required to base it off american tournament results then yes sonic would likely have to be above pit (but I think pit it a better character).

 

[Nestec]

I don't base my opinion off americans alone. This is not a rankings list. If I am required to base it off tournament results then yes sonic would likely have to be above pit (but I think pit it a better character).

...

So you're saying you're not factoring in tournament results at all?

:green:

 

[Deleted member]

What is pushing Fox above Wolf in some of your tier lists? Are MUs even being considered?

 

[NAKAT]

I actually don't see how Blackknight is hating on Sonic to begin with lol. I never thought opinions would make people wanna kill eachother lol.

NintendoFreak you might be a bit blind to realize Fox is in the right spot on the tier list for now at least. (Waits for the razor blade and Lemon Juice).

 

[Blacknight99923]

...

So you're saying you're not factoring in tournament results at all?

:green:

I factor results yes. but knowing why a person did that far I believe is crucial

for example at 2GG(80 person tournament) a player named truth placed 5th with pikachu. The seeding however was done poorly. Truth got a free braket of unranked players and subsequently lost to ranks when he played them.

More specifically regarding this topic teh sonic players at MLG dallas did indeed beat big names like DEHF, tyrant, rich brown, siebrik, ect which are incredible accomplishments. I also know that the players fighting against these mains didn't know the match ups, consequently when I look at anuar beating X I can proove my hypothesis as to see why these players did so well( not to take any credit away from them)

In the case of pit I would look at prominent pit players like masashi, who tends to be an extremely patient smart player who has consistently placed high in japan for a long time. I can then look at the characters attributes, match ups, ect and then make an educated guess about the character. Pit has better overall match ups against high tiers which help aid the player more than sonic who has to over come match ups such as metaknight, snake, olimar, marth, falco ect, most if not all of whom pit does better against.

If however it was shown japanese players were not playing a match up correctly (which I doubt) or some other kind of evidence that my opinions about pit are incorrect I would change my opinion.

 

[Tesh]

There are alot of matchups that people don't know. And yet most of these characters still don't do well regardless.

 

[Coney]

who did the sonics beat at MLG dallas?