Official BBR Recommended Rule Set 3.1

[sunshade]

yes it does. If you chase after MK when you lose the lead you are going to get beat because he can just wait on a platform and if he sees you approach in the air, then he can just tornado because no air attacks can go through it.

Thats because metaknight is really really good not because a timer is bad.

If you don't approach you are going to lose by time out.

Scenario 4

Characters with projectiles should never have to approach characters with great head to head combat because they were built differently.

Characters who have defensive options superior to their offensive options should never have to approach because they are built to play defensive.

Just because metaknights ability to approach is greater than other characters does not justify forcing him to approach because of it.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

What about this rule. You set the timer to 10 min and if a time out occurs, then the player with the most ledge grabs loses. There will be no limit to the amount of times you can grab the ledge as long as the game does not go to time. It is also clear that this is the only place that MK is truly unbeatable and the best place to start or end his time out.With this rule, that will no longer be a problem. What do you guys think?

 

[sunshade]

grabbing the ledge is a fundamental part of the game and is no different than jumping in the air or running on the ground.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

grabbing the ledge is a fundamental part of the game and is no different than jumping in the air or running on the ground.

Yes, I understand, but there should be a balance between the amount of time you spend on the ledge and the amount of time you spend on the stage. And with a 10 min timer, no match should go to time unless there was a large amount of time spent ledge grabbing and running away. 10 min should be more than enough time to finish a match.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw

 

[SaveMeJebus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbmu8fGcWaw

plank would have lost this match because he would have more ledge grabs than dapuffster

 

[John12346]

No, because an MK can fight a standard match and if the timer does begin to wind down, it's more than likely MK's opponent grabbed the ledge a significant amount more than MK did.

MK can force you onto the ledge very easily, and he is capable of running away without the ledge.

Edit: Also, take this scenario. MK vs Snake. Snake has three lives, say, 20 damage, and 48 ledgegrabs. MK has one life remaining, 150 damage, and 32 ledgegrabs. Time runs out. "Victory... is my destiny"

 

[sunshade]

plank would have lost this match because he would have more ledge grabs than dapuffster

Plank was in the lead and deserved the win. The fact that he grabbed the ledge should not be a factor in determining the victor any more than the time you spend standing on the ground should be.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

No, because an MK can fight a standard match and if the timer does begin to wind down, it's more than likely MK's opponent grabbed the ledge a significant amount more than MK did.

MK can force you onto the ledge very easily, and he is capable of running away without the ledge.

It really depends on what character you play. Certain characters make it difficult for MK to approach. these are characters that have great projectiles and a great ground game. If MK never approaches the damage that is taken here and there by projectiles will eventually add up and now all these characters have to do is go for the kill move. If these characters don't approach, they almost can't be put in a position in which they are forced to grab the ledge.

 

[-Vocal-]

yes it does. If you chase after MK when you lose the lead you are going to get beat because he can just wait on a platform and if he sees you approach in the air, then he can just tornado because no air attacks can go through it. If you don't approach you are going to lose by time out. Characters with projectiles should never have to approach characters with great head to head combat because they were built differently. and to answer chsal, 1% gets you the win with these rules.

>.>

Hi Diddy Kong main. My name is Olimar main and I have this awesome move called tether. I can understand why you don't think of it - who ever heard of a Diddy Kong with a tether? That's just downright silly

meaning: STFU and stop living inside that cave of Diddy - there's a whole world of Brawl waiting to be discovered.

I can't decide who's worse, Jebus or BPC

Jebus, by far, BY FAR. BPC holds strong philosophies and his posts are well thought out, AND he's knowledgeable about the game. Jebus is just saying stuff because that's how he wants it. I honestly can't read any more of his posts...and that's never happened to me before ._.

Ugh! Most of the time I can have a discussion with people who hold different opinions but...this one just drives me nuts.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Plank was in the lead and deserved the win. The fact that he grabbed the ledge should not be a factor in determining the victor any more than the time you spend standing on the ground should be.

can you tell me what could have been done by that diddy kong in that match to get the win? Being a Diddy main myself, I can tell you that he was playing the match up correctly(although he was approaching a little too much) but with the way plank was playing, he lost the match once he lost the lead and his only chance of winning was if plank SDed.

 

[sunshade]

I think you said it yourself "If MK never approaches the damage that is taken here and there by projectiles will eventually add up and now all these characters have to do is go for the kill move."

Metaknight is the issue not the rules.

 

[John12346]

It really depends on what character you play. Certain characters make it difficult for MK to approach. these are characters that have great projectiles and a great ground game. If MK never approaches the damage that is taken here and there by projectiles will eventually add up and now all these characters have to do is go for the kill move. If these characters don't approach, they almost can't be put in a position in which they are forced to grab the ledge.

Okay, so what about all of the Metaknights whose intentions are not to time out, but avoid projectiles by grabbing the ledge?

Also, read this hypothetical situation I posted a little while back.

Edit: Also, take this scenario. MK vs Snake. Snake has three lives, say, 20 damage, and 48 ledgegrabs. MK has one life remaining, 150 damage, and 32 ledgegrabs. Time runs out. "Victory... is my destiny"

 

[-LzR-]

I agree with Vocal cuz he is da bess.
BPC has some cool stuff, Jebus is trying to limit something that doesn't need to be limited.
Let's make it so that in case of a timeout, the player who used more projectiles loses. This makes Falco approach since it's pretty unfair that he doesn't have to and it can be annoying? Ok? lol

 

[sunshade]

Lets just not ban things that are not broken and call it a day?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Okay, so what about all of the Metaknights whose intentions are not to time out, but avoid projectiles by grabbing the ledge?

Also, read this hypothetical situation I posted a little while back.

As I said before, you can't spend the entire time on the ledge and expect to get a win. This rule should give people an incentive to learn how to power shield projectiles.

To answer your question, I feel that Snake deserves to lose. There is definitely something wrong with a Snake that only has 20 % on his first stock and yet he managed to bring down an MK to his last stock while ledge grabbing 48 times. He must be using some broken tactics. How does he get put on the ledge at such a low percent?

 

[DMG]

It's not about your intentions, but your actions. I could run laps around someone on Hyrule and use the argument "I just don't want to get hit" and it wouldn't fly at all lol.

 

[John12346]

As I said before, you can't spend the entire time on the ledge and expect to get a win. This rule should give people an incentive to learn how to power shield projectiles.

Out of curiosity, can you think of even one other character that warrants this kind of rule? Plus, are you seriously expecting Metaknight to powershield, say, ALL of Snake's nades, or ALL of Falco's lasers?

Edit: Also, take this scenario. MK vs Snake. Snake has three lives, say, 20 damage, and 48 ledgegrabs. MK has one life remaining, 150 damage, and 32 ledgegrabs. Time runs out. "Victory... is my destiny"

To answer your question, I feel that Snake deserves to lose. There is definitely something wrong with a Snake that only has 20 % on his first stock and yet he managed to bring down an MK to one stock while ledge grabbing 48 times

Are you kidding me...? Snake managed to take only 20 damage over the duration of the match, and yet he loses because he grabbed the ledge more? omg...

 

[sunshade]

As I said before, you can't spend the entire time on the ledge and expect to get a win. This rule should give people an incentive to learn how to power shield projectiles.

Why should we force players to risk missing a powersheild when they can just move one foot to the left and three feet down?

To answer your question, I feel that Snake deserves to lose. There is definitely something wrong with a Snake that only has 20 % on his first stock and yet he managed to bring down an MK to his last stock while ledge grabbing 48 times. He must be using some broken tactics. How does he get put on the ledge at such a low percent?

LOL.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Out of curiosity, can you think of even one other character that warrants this kind of rule? Plus, are you seriously expecting Metaknight to powershield, say, ALL of Snake's nades, or ALL of Falco's lasers?



Are you kidding me...? Snake managed to take only 20 damage over the duration of the match, and yet he loses because he grabbed the ledge more? omg...

Can you explain to me how that snake got put into that situation at such a low percent?If they want to force their opponents to approach, they should power shield everything.
At sunshade, what takes more skill, power shielding or grabbing the ledge?

 

[sunshade]

Why does it matter?

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Why does it matter?

It matters because it forces players to react to their opponents and not just rely on a tactic that nullifies all of their opponents options.

 

[da K.I.D.]

personally i say it takes more skill to hold onto the ledge than to power shield lasers.

if you mess up power shielding a laser, you either regular shield it or you take 2%.

If you mess up grabbing the ledge you lose a stock.

ps. grabbing the ledge doesnt nullify all of the opponents options (unless ur mk power planking) it just nullifies most of the good ones.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

personally i say it takes more skill to hold onto the ledge than to power shield lasers.

if you mess up power shielding a laser, you either regular shield it or you take 2%.

If you mess up grabbing the ledge you lose a stock.

ps. grabbing the ledge doesnt nullify all of the opponents options (unless ur mk power planking) it just nullifies most of the good ones.

You have to be pretty stupid to sd from a ledge grab and at top level play it is almost non existent.

 

[Chsal]

Lol at missing ledge grabs. Though didn't M2K SD 3 times against Lee Martin in MLG Raleigh or something?

Anyway...
What would happen if rules were changed so that :
You only get the win in a timeout, if you have at least X% less than your opponent. Something significant, like 50%+(Just a random number, could be anything).

Means they can't just get a 10% lead from 1 hit and run away, but rather they need to actually battle with you a couple times to rack up decent damage. Of course, they could still run away and play gay after this, but it does mean they've won enough encounters to deserve it.

 

[-Vocal-]

As I said before, you can't spend the entire time on the ledge and expect to get a win. This rule should give people an incentive to learn how to power shield projectiles.

To answer your question, I feel that Snake deserves to lose. There is definitely something wrong with a Snake that only has 20 % on his first stock and yet he managed to bring down an MK to his last stock while ledge grabbing 48 times. He must be using some broken tactics. How does he get put on the ledge at such a low percent?

So you have a personal belief.

Thank you for sharing your two cents.

Still as true today as it was yesterday

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

The saddest part here is that everyone is pointing out exactly why Jebus is wrong (in various ways), but he just won't listen. As far as I can tell Jebus, this is a big part of why people hate me.

I think we should just ignore him for now. The fact that he claims that as soon as MK lands on a platform with the lead tornado beats everything is just... ugh. Seriously. Again, if it's so broken, go win tournaments with it.

You're not working with the tools the game gives you. You're saying "this is how I want the game to be played and it had better **** well be played that way". You're not dealing with tactics that are actually broken, and even then, if they were, they're character-specific, so you don't ban the tactic (which would be indiscreet and unenforceable), you ban the character that abuses them.

 

[-LzR-]

Nothing wrong grabbing the ledge. It's something a smart player does to put himself in a better position.

 

[Tesh]

The timer isn't the problem, its the stocks, percents, camping and ledges.

I propose we play 1 stock matches with food on high. Then you CAN'T have a lead unless you are aggressive. The leading player will have to approach or risk losing his lead to food dropping everywhere. This would solve the Lucario problem as well. Also this would help newer players unlock extra CDs and stickers by bringing their wii to tournaments.

 

[-LzR-]

Best idea ever, I approve. They deserve dem cd's

 

[vVv Rapture]

The timer isn't the problem, its the stocks, percents, camping and ledges.

I propose we play 1 stock matches with food on high. Then you CAN'T have a lead unless you are aggressive. The leading player will have to approach or risk losing his lead to food dropping everywhere. This would solve the Lucario problem as well. Also this would help newer players unlock extra CDs and stickers by bringing their wii to tournaments.

It's not that there are so many things wrong with this post, but that made me scratch my head.

God **** Lucario mains.

 

[dainbramage]

The timer isn't the problem, its the stocks, percents, camping and ledges.

I propose we play 1 stock matches with food on high. Then you CAN'T have a lead unless you are aggressive. The leading player will have to approach or risk losing his lead to food dropping everywhere. This would solve the Lucario problem as well. Also this would help newer players unlock extra CDs and stickers by bringing their wii to tournaments.

Honestly just replace the entire BBR ruleset with this.

 

[deepseadiva]

I wouldn't be against only having CD's and stickers on if that was on option. :o

 

[Rickerdy-doo-da-day]

It's not that there are so many things wrong with this post, but that made me scratch my head.

God **** Lucario mains.

I think its reffering to the fact that Lucario gets stronger as he loses stocks. Doing 1 stock matches instead of 3 stock matches could potentially mean Lucario is buffed up from the beginning of the game

Or does he have to actually lose a stock/be behind in stocks for this to happen?


I've seen so many new suggestions for improving the rules such as adding food or changing how the winner is determined upon time out such as adding ground time rules
Whats right? I don't know
Just throwing this out though - lets imagine Meta Knight gets banned. Should he be banned? Thats not the point - would we actually need any of these extra rules that are being suggested such as adding food, LGL's and ground/air time rules?

 

[bigman40]

I've seen so many new suggestions for improving the rules such as adding food or changing how the winner is determined upon time out such as adding ground time rules
Whats right? I don't know
Just throwing this out though - lets imagine Meta Knight gets banned. Should he be banned? Thats not the point - would we actually need any of these extra rules that are being suggested such as adding food, LGL's and ground/air time rules?

When you have to place rules to limit just one character, then we're agreeing that he's broken under normal rules and should be banned.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Why is it that it wasn't until the the brawl days that we had nationals that were won by time out. If you guys say that time outs are a part of all fighting games, show me a national match of any other fighter besides SSBB that ended in time outs and I will match it with one from brawl. If seems that if it's as big a part in every other fighting game, there should at least be an even number of time outs in all other fighters than there is in Brawl alone.

 

[da K.I.D.]

1. Since MK is broken I would ask you to find timeout matches that dont include him.

2. If I knew the names of all the street fighter matches that timed out, I would honestly do this with you. Because there a definitely more time out matchs in streetfighter 4 than there are in brawl that dont involve Mk because hes broken.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

MK being broken is just an opinion. It's like saying Sonic is broken because he can stall under the stage or peach in Melee is broken because she can stall with her peach bomber. However if you ban these techniques, these characters are now more balanced.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

MK being broken is just an opinion. It's like saying Sonic is broken because he can stall under the stage or peach in Melee is broken because she can stall with her peach bomber. However if you ban these techniques, these characters are now more balanced.

You need two separate rules to ensure that any character that isn't MK can even begin to compete and that the game doesn't end when MK gets the lead.
MK can circle camp on every stage that you can fly under.
MK automatically wins with the lead
Even with several rules in place and a stagelist almost tailored to weaken him as a character, MK is still ridiculously dominant.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

You need two separate rules to ensure that any character that isn't MK can even begin to compete and that the game doesn't end when MK gets the lead.
MK can circle camp on every stage that you can fly under.
MK automatically wins with the lead
Even with several rules in place and a stagelist almost tailored to weaken him as a character, MK is still ridiculously dominant.

Ok, but my rule makes it so that if MK is using the ledges to stall, he will end up losing because the player with the most ledge grabs at the end of the match that goes to time out, loses. He will almost always have to grab the ledge if he wants to be 100% sure that the opponent won't hit him. This forces him to either play on stage or if he still wants to get the time out, run away on the platforms, which takes more skill than hanging from the ledge. I would rather lose to an MK that timed me out on stage than one that timed me out on the ledge because I could at least attack the one that played on stage.