Laijin
Smash Hero
You don't "mentally prepare".
You have to practice until your confident you can perform the things you have practiced in tournament.
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Official "Ask Chip Stuff... about Stuff" Thread
- Thread starter Chip.
- Start date
You have to practice until your confident you can perform the things you have practiced in tournament.
Chip.
you know what to do
I like Laijin's answer.
But for me to answer question your going to have to be a little more specific with your question. When you ask how to "mentally prepare" are you refering to your level of intelligent play you need to incorporate into your young Link's playstyle or how to have a high level of confidence when you're under pressure in a middle of a tournament match so you don't choke?
I would like people to please refrain from asking such generalized questions if y'all could. Be more elaborative with one and then I can help give a better answer to you. Thanks ^_^
Update! -
I will now be editing links to posts on this thread to the first post; primarily I will host a number of links to posts that are discussing various charachter matchups, tactics and strategies, best stage choices and so forth. You'll see what I mean.
Laijin
Smash Hero
I think a better idea for that Chip is to just make a FAQ(Frequently Asked Questions) section on the first page.
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
@Chip:
PLZ go! I must learn how to use young link better..=[ (tips pl0x xD)
But seriously, it would be nice to see a good ylink in person.
And, how does one practice? Keep smashing with other people? Stay at home by yourself trying to perfect techical level/combos? ..etc
PLZ go! I must learn how to use young link better..=[ (tips pl0x xD)
But seriously, it would be nice to see a good ylink in person.
And, how does one practice? Keep smashing with other people? Stay at home by yourself trying to perfect techical level/combos? ..etc
Chip.
you know what to do
Sometimes people may not be able to find a specific answer to a question they're looking for and instead of asking the same question again, I'll have links to those questions on the first page to save them trouble of searching.
Essentially it is an FAQ
I will do my best to try and be there but I'm going to be pretty busy. I really would like to go to BC Canada, but I think I need a passport or something to cross borders, in which I'm not sure if I have at the moment.
The best way to practice and get better is experience. You really need to enter the jaws of battle and gain experience learning from playing your opponents, especially ones better than you.
The best way to keep smashing with other people is to find other smashers in your local area and get together for smashfests/tournaments with them I suppose. Then, travel to larger tournaments that have better players entering in them to see how well you stack up. Keep practicing with people your own skill level for long periods of time and then go to the next step and start playing people whom are better than you on regular basises. That's how I got good anyway, I play here in eastern Wa where the smash concentration isn't quite as heavy as the western Wa area (aka Seattle area). So every month I travel to Seattle from Spokane (across the state, which is basically 6 hours) to play with better players than me (Ka-master, Silent Wolf, DJ Combo, Eggz, BladeWise, Jumpfreak) so I can improve.
To practice Technical skill go to training mode and practice your shuffling, wavedashing, and various other advanced techniques along with young Link specific skills (such as spam trixies). The only way to sufficiently practice combos that are new to you, you must learn what the combo is and then actually practice it on another player that has a sense of what DI is. You'll learn that 99% of all the combos in the game only come through improper DI from the opponent.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Alright. So first off:
Young Link is a lot better than regular Link, but neither of them are still really easy to win with. To win with YL( or any character who is mid/low/bottom tier), you must try a lot harder to win with YL than the Fox or Sheik players try to win. Cause honestly, to win with this guy really does take a lot of effort. I recently started playing Fox and Sheik more because I only have to give out like 1/10th of effort to win matches than I would've if I was playing YL. Just try harder and think through everything quickly.
I thought I had hit a wall with YL until I played against Chu Dat. I was doing a lot of things he did'nt do, and at times even he was surprised at some of the stuff I did to him. (Like on PS, on the rock transformation, he was at the bottom and I just kept Z dropping bombs on him and draining his sheild/hitting him. He was like "YO AZEN. WHAT DO I DO IN THIS SITUATION". and Azen was like "I DUNNO"). Anyways. The point is, he did something totally simple to me yet it was completly weird, and I did not understand what he was doing until I had almost lost.
So it does help to see other YL players play other than yourself in person.
Chip.
you know what to do
The last thing you want to do is to stay inside your sheild too long against a Nair shuffling Fox. He simply has WAY too many options after an L-canceled arial. If he Shines your sheild, he can continue to pillar with Drillshines, jump cancel the Shine into a grab, Waveshine your sheild for decimating sheild pressure, and so on so forth. You get the idea.
Aside from Shines he could always jab your sheild, which can basically be just as good as a Shine because he can jab twice into a grab or continue to jab until you roll and then he chases your roll with a grab.
Point is: try to restrict yourself from sheilding Foxes shuffled arials because young Link just has too slow of options out of the sheild (aka a slow grab that comes out in 11 frames instead of 7 like a normal charachter).
So I actually do have solutions to a Fox that spams shuffled Nairs. At low percents try to CC the Nair from Fox and then INSTANTLY jab from your CC. This is one of the better techniques I've started using to counter shuffled Nairs. But in order to perform it correctly you must have a shave of experience practicing jab canceling to use it more accurately since this is in essence the same thing as the jab from a CC.
As I mentioned in Cort's thread, wave dashing backwards into a grab, Dsmash, Ftilt or jab works well. Young Link is special in that if you correctly anticipate the spacing between you and Fox after you wave dash back, you'll be able to grab him with the reach of your hookshot in the duration of his L-cancel.
You have to really anticipate Fox's Nairs well. If you stay in your sheild vs a Nair spamming Fox, he'll continue to pressure your sheild until he starts getting in hits on you. Only use your sheild if you have no other option fast enough at the time.
I'll try my best to discover new tactics in the near future.
For your charachters, try and get some other higher tiered charachter in there other than the three mains you main, perhaps Marth would work good, since he does well against the top tiers.
Btw, VaNz, you have a mad good young Link
What were some of of the "things" Chu was doing to you that you've never encountered before? Just out of curiosity
Laijin
Smash Hero
Well. The main thing was he followed underneath me whenever he hit me away and continued to stay on me and attack(Its hard to explain. x__x). As I would normally just make enough space to start spamming again. That surprised me a lot and I did'nt know what to do. lol.
Laijin
Smash Hero
Oh. And as for characters.
Seriously.
Use Fox and Sheik. They have almost no bad match ups. Ice Climbers is not even that bad of a match up against Sheik as people think they are. Just don't grab them, don't get grabbed, and space well. Captain Falcon does amazingly well too here as long as he does not get grabbed.
Seriously.
Use Fox and Sheik. They have almost no bad match ups. Ice Climbers is not even that bad of a match up against Sheik as people think they are. Just don't grab them, don't get grabbed, and space well. Captain Falcon does amazingly well too here as long as he does not get grabbed.
Chip.
you know what to do
Oh. Okay. I thought Chu had some tricksies and other stuff up his sleeve.
He was just playing aggressive after a combo launcher, that's all
Exactly, they almost have no bad match ups. Ice Climbers and space animals can still cause problems for any good Sheik. And your advice for Falcon can be advice for every charachter in the game. No one wants to be grabed by Sheik lol.
Also, I don't use other charachters because my young Link is good enough in tournaments without using them. I am an all out young Link main till the end of time! /end cheesy line
Despite that charachter purism is an incredibly dumb concept.
Laijin
Smash Hero
lol.
YL does'nt win against Fox and some other characters.
Thats why I main Fox and Sheik as well as Young Link. xD
YL does'nt win against Fox and some other characters.
Thats why I main Fox and Sheik as well as Young Link. xD
Chip.
you know what to do
It depends on how good the Fox is. Chances are if it's a really good Fox, you'll probably get ***** just as hard as Fox as you would with young Link. Professional Fox players know the Fox ditto matchup better than they know their own birthday. And you would have to be amazing with Fox if you ever wanted to stand a chance against a top notch Fox player.
I'm not saying it's bad to have secondaries for avid counter-picks, in fact, just in general counter-picking is a much, MUCH better strategy than charachter purism. But for me, I would rather learn and train harder using only young Link so I can win in my matchups. He's simply my favorite charachter of all time.
Just to let you know: I can beat any good Fox that comes my way. It's only professionals like Silent Wolf and Eggz who are very challanging to beat, but still possible.
Quiksilv
Smash Apprentice
i would like to see chip vs fox, since he owns them 
Laijin
Smash Hero
Well. Yea. Thats the fruit of playing High Tier characters. Everyone knows how to fight them.
And I don't think Chip nor Jash could beat a really good fox player like Silent Wolf or PC Chris with Young Link. It really is Young Link's most difficult match up, and i'll go as far as to say its not possible to win. lol.
An average Fox player however is beyond fun to fight with YL. lol.
Chip.
you know what to do
My goal is to beat an amazing Fox player, and recently I've been working incredibly hard with my brother, Deva, to do so. That's the goal, and one day I hope to achieve this.
And just to let you know, hardly anyone ever beats Silent Wolf or PC Chris
Eggz
Smash Hero
I do. >_> <_<
Chip.
you know what to do
A good killing combo that works on most, if not all, charachters in the game is the Bomb Plant combo. Check it out:
http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=3411200&postcount=10
Now if you can't get a good killing combo off on an opponent, you should try for a simple killing attack. Young Link's best killing move is probably his Dsmash. With it, you'll be able to hit opponents very far off the stage to obtain a kill at around the 120% mark, but it's not likely at all if the opponent you are fighting can execute DI well. Shuffled and full hopped Nairs also can work wonders when hitting the opponent off the stage. After you hit the enemy off the stage and if they survive, you must use some effective edgeguarding in the process to gain the kill. Any particular charachters you need help edgeguarding with? I know how to deal with any opponent's recovery
Roman.
Smash Champion
For the most part, I get lots of trouble from fox and marth. I can sometimes get them off the edge but i need like something cheap because it's not that easy to rack up 130% damage and get a dsmash, by then I've probably lost a stock and some percent.
Chip.
you know what to do
The best way to rack up damage is projectile combos. The bomb is your best bet for unleashing a powerful combo launcher because of the long hit stun it leaves etched on an opponent. Bomb plants work great on Fox at low % and for mid %'s throw a bomb into an Uair and then combo from there with another Uair or alternate into Utilts and Usmashes. When racking up damage against Marth, you're just going to rely on generic bomb and boomerang spacing into Nairs, dash attacks, and Dsmashes. They'll do just fine vs Marthy.
To get a kill move at high%, you'll either have to throw a bomb and run in for a cc Dsmash or run in for a dash attack. Or you can space Fairs and Nairs at their sheild and hope wait for a mistake out of your opponent to release a charged up Dsmash from your arial.
From here, You'll need to edgeguard:
For Marth, if he's recovering far and parallel to the edge/center of the stage, throw bombs, boomerangs and arrows to curve down slightly at his slope-shaped recovery with the sideB and disrupt his decent to the stage. If you are succesful with a hit from a bomb or an arrow, jump down and Nair him, because of the large hit stun lag of the bomb and arrow, and upB back to the stage. If your boomerang gets a hit on Marth instead then slide into a reliable edgehog or do the the lightsheild edgehog trick: it's brilliant vs Marth.
When Marth is already recovering low, same edgeguard strategy applies. Throw projectiles down at him and then either fall off the edge and Nair or you could face backwards (so young Link's face is in the direction of the stage) and WD back into a falling Nair. The other only other option than these would be edgehogs/lightsheild edgehog trick which work as well.
If Marth recovers far but very high up, then you should stay on the stage and jump high up and throw an angled boomerang to land a lucky hit or jump up over the stage and throw a bomb upwards. There isn't really that much else you can do but wait for him to descend lower and attempt to pounce on him with a Nair if he's still above you. Of course, if the Marth is any good he will simply outspace your Nair with Fair, but you should still try a Uair on him.
Marth has a step-by-step recovery in which he has two components of mobility that need to be combined just to get him to the stage: his sideB's (for horizontal movement) and the upB (vertical movement). Edgeguarding Marth comes through experience. When you knock one step or component out then he can't use the other to get back to the stage. Which means you if you can Nair his sideB's, then he won't have enough distance to upB back to the edge. Learn to play smart and abusive over his recovery, because remember, if you knock out one of Marth's steps, he falls down.
Now Fox:
Now as amazing as Fox is, he luckily doesn't have that amazing of a recovery in some terms. It's very straight forward and at times can be predictable or easily punishable. A good Fox will always try to land a sweetspot sideB phantasm whenever he can. If Fox does not land a perfect sweetspot with his sideB, then you should land a sweet Dsmash or jab right into his face. But, if the Fox player happens to be very good at landing perfect, sweetspot sideBs then either run off the stage and Nair, pull a bomb prior to this situation and Z drop it in front of the edge, or try and edgehog. It's very difficult to actually guard Fox when he succesfully lands a sweetspot sideB; sometimes you shouldn't even try to guard him at all when the situation seems to risky or pointless to actually get to the edge in time to guard him.
Fox's other recovery is his upB which is only used if he's too far underneath the center area of the stage or is simply too far for a sideB; only used in desperate situations, but is still commonly used. This is the type of recovery that young Link can handle very well. If Fox is directly underneath the edge but is very far down, then pull out a bomb, full hop over the edge and throw the bomb down at Fox, then fall back to the stage upright ready to unleash a Dsmash. You see, the bomb is used to stop Fox going for a perfect sweetspot and then the bomb can sometimes set the Fox up for a nice Dsmash. If Fox Techs the bomb then he'll have two options at that point: he can either fall down and attempt to upB back to the stage or after he Techs he immediately does a sideB right into the sweetspot edge. If Fox falls down for another upB, then pull out another bomb throw it down and wait to unleash a Dsmash, but if Fox keeps Teching the bombs and Dsmashes then let him keep Teching and keep racking up damage on him until he misses a Tech and dies (or if you screw up and let him back to the stage), then the process is an endless wash, rinse, repeat formula till one of you fails. Now, if Fox decides to sideB immediately after the Tech, then just Dsmash him. His sideB has start up time lag, so if you're quick enough you're Dsmash will hit him before he actually grabs the stage because he's floating there for a few frames.
This edgeguarding strategy is something I've invented (or at least I've never seen another young Link player use this edgeguard before) and it's worked extremely well against every Fox I've encountered. The only other thing, is that they never get the first Tech off and end up dieing my first Dsmash usually.
Another edgeguard is that you can hang off on the stage, wait for Fox upB upwards, and then ledge hop Nair or Dair him. Works moderately, but it isn't as effective as my edgeguard in my opinion.
Now there is an edgeguard against the upB with Fox is if he's very low beneath the stage but is NOT directly underneath the edge, but somewhere near that area where he would have to travel in a right diagonal trajectory to grab the stage. If Fox attempts to upB in this relative area, then run off the edge into a Nair or short hop into a fast fall Nair and hit Fox for a kill. Sometimes you'll be able to obtain a satisfying gimp kill.
I hope that helped!
Roman.
Smash Champion
That did help a lot. I tried a couple of those earlier and the bomb/dsmash really ***** fox's recovery upwards. Marth is still a little bit of a problem because this one can predict EVERYTHING and will fair every projectile. Thanks for the info though, it's very useful.
Just mix it up a bit... Don't be so predictable with the projectiles. Mindgames, etc. Don't just randomly spam. Make every move count.
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
use your projectiles to lure your opponent in for uber combos, mindgames, and super pro *** finishers. =P
example: bomb>boomrang>shfflana>boomrang angled upwards> "lai-fire"
lol i dont know if that will actually work as i am just playing it in my head but it is just an example..lol
PS. I LOVE YOUR SIG TOSS. lol
example: bomb>boomrang>shfflana>boomrang angled upwards> "lai-fire"
lol i dont know if that will actually work as i am just playing it in my head but it is just an example..lol
PS. I LOVE YOUR SIG TOSS. lol
kennypoopoo
Smash Apprentice
Hey I'm not a young link main but im quicly starting to really like him as a character I like how fluidly he can spam projectiles and his speed is a plus as well but what I would like to know is when you are spamming projectiles does anyone have a favourite rhythm or like certain order they usually do it in like i usually hop back wards grab out bomb throw a boomerang then jump and if i think i can hit an arrow ill usually do that then throw my bomb asap or if i cant hit them with the arrow ill either z drop or throw my bomb depending where how close i am to them but yeah anyone else have any preferances ?? and sorry if its hard to understand if you need me to eplain better just ask
Quiksilv
Smash Apprentice
Boomerang, bomb, shffl with nair = around 40% if the boomerange hits up close
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
ooh, the BEST projectile combo is
*pull out bomb*> boomrang > *throw bomb* > boomrang angled upwards > uair... IT ROCKS
Its become like second nature to me without me even realizing it.
*pull out bomb*> boomrang > *throw bomb* > boomrang angled upwards > uair... IT ROCKS
Its become like second nature to me without me even realizing it.
Woot, new sig (I made about 10 in the past day ._.).. On another note. Rikyu, letting a maneuver become second nature can be hazardous, especially when your opponent is either a) Used to young link or b) is used to YOUR style. Take it from me, mix it up a bit ;-;.
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
Lol, I meant second nature as in I pull it off at oprotune(spelling?) times. I have other combos and things ya know... lol, its just something I didn't realize I was doing in matches up until now. Btw, NICE SIG (again) Im loving the anime girls =P
So I got a question for you YL mains out there...
For Brawl, who are you gonna be maining under the assumption that YL will not be a playable character in any shape or form? Personally, I'm going with Pit since he seems kinda similar.
So I got a question for you YL mains out there...
For Brawl, who are you gonna be maining under the assumption that YL will not be a playable character in any shape or form? Personally, I'm going with Pit since he seems kinda similar.
Opportune*. I plan on maining either Ice climbers or Pit (Only due to the similarities and because he looks kinda cool >.>)
I can't decide what sig to stick with... ._.
Jash
Smash Lord
Maybe Ike....i dunno.
Chip.
you know what to do
I was wondering when you would find this thread.
Could you do me a favor? I won't be on these boards for maybe a few weeks or so, so could I ask you to watch my thread for me? Just hand out advice and answers whenever people ask for it and stuff. If you could, . . . it would help out a bundle =D
GGz in those matches by the way! Good, good stuff.
Jash
Smash Lord
Uh...i guess i could, ask away people. And i guess i can help you out if you show me videos too. Its all on ya.
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
Ooh, Jash is posting again! I hope I can get some vids up soon...
And jash, why IKE? I mean he looks cool and stuff, but gimpy said he's slow as hell...
And jash, why IKE? I mean he looks cool and stuff, but gimpy said he's slow as hell...
Jash
Smash Lord
Well because recently i have been using Bowser, and he seems to be alright *very hard to use though*. After time of getting use to him he doesn't feel as slow anymore. Now Ike, well if hes slow then ill "Try" to get use to him. I like challenges
Edit: I also use Ganondorf, Maybe hes like a mixture of them two, Big, slow, huge hitboxs. But who knows, i did say maybe.
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
Lol, why did you start using bowser in the first place? ...Well I could ask the same question about YL.. But, bowser is... well, bowser.
Bowser's the general that's why ;-;.
Jash
Smash Lord
I started using Bowser mainly because people told me he was a tough character. I actually never thought of playing Bowser but he seemed to be pretty difficult at first. I think the main reason i got as good as i am with Bowser is because i watch Gimpyfish videos. Theres a certain strategy used with big, slow and strong characters. Thats why i think i can pick up Ike.
RikyuXz.~
Smash Apprentice
Meh, I guess, but gimpy did state that ike is not slow like bowser and ganon, in fact lemme try and find a quote...
"Ike is strong, and when I say strong I mean STRONG. He KO’s at much lower percentages than Bowser does on average, only a few moves of Bowser’s seemed to compete with Ike’s power." -Gimpyfish62
"As a player who uses the “slow but strong” character in Melee well I can see the limitations of another “slow but strong” character pretty easily as far as potential goes. Bowser in melee was slow but strong, and so was Ganon. I play both of those characters (although only Bowser in tournament). Ganon is CLEARLY the better of the two for multiple reasons. Now – for a moment – let’s compare Ike from Brawl to the Ganon/Bowser “slow but strong” character setup. Ganon and Bowser both have several moves that activate quickly or have a lot of shield stun or have a large amount of range or can grab from the air. They both have some manner of safety in their approaches or have at least some manner of speed in their character. Ike on the other hand seemingly has none of these positive factors. Ike is much, MUCH slower than either Ganon OR Bowser. I realize that this is a new physics engine, but he is VERY slow when compared to the rest of the cast. I'm trying to put the least amount of bias in this update that I can. I really wanted Ike to be good after seeing him played, and I honestly didn't believe that he was as slow as people were telling me; then I played as him. His aerials are ALL slow, his tilts are slower than most smashes, his smashes are almost the same speed as his tilts. He really, REALLY lacks in speed. After watching some of the videos of Ike I find myself doubting that he is really as slow as I recall. Visually some of the startup of his moves is actually hidden; he appears to be much faster than he really is in the videos. Let me make another thing clear. Ike is NOT very laggy. Ike does NOT have a large amount of lag after his aerials, he just has slow activation time on them, which is MUCH more difficult to get around on a competitive level of play." -Gimpyfish62
(Both quotes taken from General Brawl Impressions thread)
"Ike is strong, and when I say strong I mean STRONG. He KO’s at much lower percentages than Bowser does on average, only a few moves of Bowser’s seemed to compete with Ike’s power." -Gimpyfish62
"As a player who uses the “slow but strong” character in Melee well I can see the limitations of another “slow but strong” character pretty easily as far as potential goes. Bowser in melee was slow but strong, and so was Ganon. I play both of those characters (although only Bowser in tournament). Ganon is CLEARLY the better of the two for multiple reasons. Now – for a moment – let’s compare Ike from Brawl to the Ganon/Bowser “slow but strong” character setup. Ganon and Bowser both have several moves that activate quickly or have a lot of shield stun or have a large amount of range or can grab from the air. They both have some manner of safety in their approaches or have at least some manner of speed in their character. Ike on the other hand seemingly has none of these positive factors. Ike is much, MUCH slower than either Ganon OR Bowser. I realize that this is a new physics engine, but he is VERY slow when compared to the rest of the cast. I'm trying to put the least amount of bias in this update that I can. I really wanted Ike to be good after seeing him played, and I honestly didn't believe that he was as slow as people were telling me; then I played as him. His aerials are ALL slow, his tilts are slower than most smashes, his smashes are almost the same speed as his tilts. He really, REALLY lacks in speed. After watching some of the videos of Ike I find myself doubting that he is really as slow as I recall. Visually some of the startup of his moves is actually hidden; he appears to be much faster than he really is in the videos. Let me make another thing clear. Ike is NOT very laggy. Ike does NOT have a large amount of lag after his aerials, he just has slow activation time on them, which is MUCH more difficult to get around on a competitive level of play." -Gimpyfish62
(Both quotes taken from General Brawl Impressions thread)
Jash
Smash Lord
If Nintendo is smart, im sure they will fix that.
