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Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread

Discussion in 'Melee Discussion' started by Strong Bad, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Sycorax

    Sycorax
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    Looks like left then down and left to me, but I might be wrong.
     
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  2. Hunybear

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    How are throws hitstun calculated? Is it different for weight dependant throws as well.
     
  3. Sycorax

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    Same as hitboxes. Throws have all the same necessary properties. Use the same formula except weight is 100 regardless of character. A consequence of this is that throws do the same hitstun to each character when all other factors equal. Weight dependent throws aren't calculated differently.
     
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  4. Big Gay Thunder

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  5. reverie2

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    Don't know the answer but that's some insane tech. He did it deliberately as well cuz he was ready for the dair.
     
  6. Sycorax

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    There are two possibilities. It's one or the other or both. He could have had a incy wincy bit of KB left over from the jab that pushed him over the edge. Fox could have pushed him off with ECB interaction.

    The shine came out while Westballz was still invincible from the standing animation.

    I'm 99% sure the dair was unintentional. He was probably trying to ASDI down and got lucky with the timing.
     
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  7. Rachman

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    For powershielding specifically projectiles, is it recommended to remove the analog portion of the trigger being used? I'm a little confused about the transition to GuardReflect or whatever the status is called and wanted to start grinding powershields v Falco lasers. I was also considering just shortening the analog distance like the Kadano mod but I really hate the analog to digital thing where you lose shield for like two frames when transitioning from analog to digital. Anyone have any thoughts on it?
     
  8. Sycorax

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    According to Kadano's notes on the wiki, the Analog to Digital shield bug doesn't affect powershielding projectiles. The chance of spending a frame in analog shield does, of course.

    I've removed springs from my triggers and it makes powershielding waayyy easier.
     
  9. ᴠanilla

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    I was wondering if someone could tell me a little about powershields, specifically when you get multiple powershields is succession like in this video: https://youtu.be/1-nkH9s3e3k?t=4m5s

    I've done this myself occasionally but I've never understood what's going on because sometimes it just feels like I pressed L once and got multiple powershields.
     
  10. Sycorax

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    There is a good article on SSBWiki that talks about powershields. In this instance, Yoshi powershielded the nair, and since successive hits of nair come so fast as to keep the defender in GuardDamage during the whole move, each hit is powershielded. Lots of fast, multi-hit moves will do this, e.g. Fox dair and Peach dsmash.
     
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  11. tauKhan

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    @Vanilla That was caused by Yoshi specific powershield storing glitch . In short, if Yoshi interrupts his shield during active powershield window, the powershield window remains in memory. If he then puts up shield again without activating powershield, which is done by light shielding or buffering shield, next physical attacks will be automatically powershielded.

    In the vid at ~4:04 the yoshi did a frame 1 full shield -> frame 2 roll, which stored the remaining 3 frames of his powershield window. He then either buffered shield or light shielded on the left plat, and ps'd the first 3 hits of the nair according to the stored ps count.

    The wiki article is outdated, and imo a bit unclear too on multipowershielding. Keeping someone in GuardDamage doesn't make him powershield multiple times, since the powershield window ticks down during GuardDamage. Non-Yoshi characters will (barring heartshield) powershield multiple hits only if they all hit within 4 frames of the shield start-up, excluding hitlag. However the window to cancel GuardOff into moves only wears down during Guard, so the ability to cancel GuardOff is preserved if you're kept in GuardDamage.
     
    #1491 tauKhan, Jan 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
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  12. Bl@ckChris

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    this feels like a dumb question, but does tilting a shield change its hitbox?

    IE, if you're in someones face and suspect you're about to get grabbed, if you tilt your shield away, can you actually become effectively "safer" than you were prior?
     
    #1492 Bl@ckChris, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
  13. tauKhan

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    Non-Yoshi characters don't have grabbable shield bubble, but tilting your shield does slightly change your characters pose.
     
  14. Bl@ckChris

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    ah, so sheild size doesn't affect it either. i guess that makes sense. so even lightshielding isn't easy to grab? also makes sense. but the pose changing might make your arms or whatever harder to grab by a little, making a marginal difference, but not one as large as the movement of the actual shield.

    Thanks man, you've answered an odd question of mine in the past too (i think about the marth dash distortion). I appreciate it.
     
    #1494 Bl@ckChris, Feb 3, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2017
  15. Rachman

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    How does the momentum preservation work with Amsah techs?
     
  16. tauKhan

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    Tech-roll prevents you from falling off, kb velocity is reduced by ground friction on each frame during the roll.
     
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  17. reverie2

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    I amsah tech towards ledge a lot of the time, and sometimes i fall off stage, sometimes i don't. Can this be influenced in any way (like if i hold my stick a certain direction) or is it strictly dependent on knockback?
     
  18. tauKhan

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    If you tech-in-place, you'll fall immediately; if you roll, you'll fall after the roll if you still have kb speed remaining after the roll.
     
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  19. reverie2

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    A couple questions...

    1. Falco's dair should be amsah techable right (i'm pretty sure i've seen it before)? How come when I enter it in this website http://ikneedata.com/calculator? it doesn't show that it's amsah techable? I'm using TDI down, ASDI down, Fox as victim, with a clean dair. At all %'s it does not display amsah techable.

    2. Does ASDI down reduce lag against falco at all (not full crouch cancel effect)? Like at 20 ish percent when he dairs me and I hold down before the last frame of hitlag, it doesn't feel like i'm escaping lag faster.

    3. Falco's dair hits 290 degrees from horizontal, meaning it's just downwards and slightly to the right. How does that work? Is the angle just projected somehow because obviously you can't go inside the stage.
     
  20. tauKhan

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    1. Oversight in the calculator. I'll inform schmoob on this.

    2. ASDI down works by making you land from air immediately after launching. If you're hit by a non-tumble spike, you'll stay on ground. You can't land when on ground, so ASDI doesn't do anything. It's also impossible to ASDI down when you stay grounded too.

    3. If you stay grounded upon hit, the vertical speed component will simply be removed. Horizontal component remains and makes you slide on ground. At tumble kb (when the spikes pop you up), the initial velocity is mirrored and reduced by 20%.
     
    #1500 tauKhan, Feb 6, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
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  21. reverie2

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    So basically, ASDI down does absolutely nothing unless you're high enough % to go slightly into the air (but not high enough to send you flying across the stage), where you can amsah tech?
     
  22. reverie2

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    Does anyone know how to calculate the total stun from a projectile hitting shield? I thought it was hitlag + shieldstun, but i saw a post by kadano here http://smashboards.com/threads/kadanos-perfect-marth-class-advanced-frame-data-application.337035/ saying falco's laser's stun is set. But hitlag is floor(damage/3) + 3, and falco's laser does 3 hitlag unstaled, and 2 hitlag or less staled, meaning if the formula is correct, it's 1+3 hitlag or 0+3 hitlag. Did i miss something here?
     
  23. tauKhan

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    I think he referred to hitstun, which is always the same. Total stun on shield is 7 frames when completely unstale, and 5 frames (Least amount of hitlag and hitstun possible, 3 and 2 respectively) when stale.
     
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  24. Rachman

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    What is the minimum input (y coordinate or whatever) that triggers a wall jump tech instead of a normal wall tech? Presumably the same as a tap jump but I don't know the answer either of those things. Asking because if I want to sdi into the wall and not wall jump tech I'd have to be careful to keep my stick beneath a certain point
     
  25. Bones0

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    I don't know the exact Y-value, but the cutoff point is slightly below the northeast and northwest notches.

    [​IMG]

    PassiveWall trigger map
    "During the beginning of PassiveWall (walltech), holding the control stick within the yellow area will trigger PassiveWallJump (short PWJ, “walljumptech”). I rather recommend using X/Y jump buffering, though."

    Source: Kadano
     
    #1505 Bones0, Feb 28, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
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  26. Rachman

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    Didn't know about this specific control stick map from Kadano! Thanks, I'm going to go from cardinal to a little below diagonal and then just press b to ledge tech up b :)
     
  27. tauKhan

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    @Rachman You play falcon? I don't find the wall jump disadvantageous for falcon if you're trying to grab them with upb after. You just gotta time the upb well.
     
  28. Rachman

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    Vs Sheik Dsmash wizzy can up b them after teching because he doesn't wall jump tech. Wanted to do that too
     
  29. tauKhan

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    I could be mistaken, but I think the height you gain from wj helps you grab earlier as long as you do it quickly. Anyway you shouldn't hold up when ledge teching, better to A/SDI full horizontal, and tech wall jump with x/y when needed.
     
    #1509 tauKhan, Feb 28, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2017
  30. Rachman

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    The problem being that the following hits will hit you before you grab with the Up-B I'm pretty sure. At least, when I watch Wizzy do it in slow motion that is how I see it, he is just normal wall teching followed by an Up B so that he isn't high enough for the dsmash hit that will normally hit you before you can to hit.
     
  31. Bones0

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    If he's grabbing Sheik through her dsmash or something, I'd guess that's it's more a result of timing his up-B so well that he still has wall jump intangibility. I forget how many intan frames you get, but I'm pretty sure the strength of the move affects how much actionable intan you have anyway. I think you waste intan frames during the hitlag after teching or something? Someone please confirm... Either way, I think there are some instances where Falcon can wall tech up-B and grab them while he's still intangible, which might be what you saw Wizzrobe do. I doubt he's somehow out-spacing Sheik's dsmash with up-B regardless of whether he wall tech jumps or not.
     
    #1511 Bones0, Mar 1, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  32. tauKhan

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    After further testing I was able to confirm that what you said is true if sheik times his dsmash in a certain way; if you ledge tech without jumping you can just drop down a bit and up b him every time, whereas with upb walljump you get sometimes hit. Anyway, you should hold straight sideways for the tech.

    I guess I just haven't ran into sheiks in that mu that time the dsmash properly.
     
  33. Rachman

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    I knew it!
     
  34. DariusM27

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    Please don't hate me, or do if you want.

    And delete the comment if you want.

    But does anyone know if it's possible to extend the Powershield window in Smash4 (trash4) ?
     
  35. Kadano

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    I don't think anybody here in this thread / this subforum is interested in researching Smash 4 mechanics. I briefly did so about a year ago to find out how shield dropping works in Smash 4, so I visited an acquaintance who has a Smash 4 setup and tested it, and the game mechanics felt so unpleasant to me that my previous disliking of the game was only further strengthened.

    Better ask people who actually focus on researching Smash 4, like the Beefy Smash Doods.
     
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  36. Popertop

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    I'm looking for information on a knockback reduction technique (I forgot the name, or I would have found it through searching like a good boy) that was discovered recently (within the last two years)

    I know that it works by airdodging just before being hit, before the invincibility of the airdodge is active

    It reduces the knockback vector by ~5% (or so I had heard)

    I've been calling it Vectoring, but you get lots and lots of extraneous results when you search with that keyword.

    What I am looking for is the official name, as well as confirming what I have said here to be correct.
     
  37. DRGN

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    V-Canceling
     
  38. Popertop

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    Thanks DRGN!
    Now I have more questions!


    These states:
    JumpF (first jump)
    JumpB
    JumpAerialF (second jump)
    JumpAerialB
    Fall
    FallF
    FallB
    FallAerial
    FallAerialF
    FallAerialB
    FallSpecial ("helpless" fall after up-b/airdodge)
    FallSpecialF
    FallSpecialB
    DamageFall (tumble)
    EscapeAir (airdodge)


    I know what FallSpecial is, and DamageFall and EscapeAir are both labeled.

    But what is the F,B after each of these indicating?

    First and Second jump is easy enough, but these letters are confusing me.
     
  39. Sycorax

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    Forward and back.
     
  40. Popertop

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    So falling Forward and falling Back are considered different states?

    that's interesting


    Then what's the difference between:
    Fall

    and

    FallAerial

    ??
     

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