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Official Ask Anyone Frame Things Thread
- Thread starter Strong Badam
- Start date
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 496
trying mew2 and can only tech if i hit shoulder on frame 6+ of hitlag, the ****.
Last edited:
Can't input tech during hitlag
. Well except wall tech if you sdi into the wall same frame, but that's it. Can also tech with m2 just fine by inputting R before you get hit.
Magus420
Smash Master
Synchronous Timer and Asynchronous Timers are script timing events, and have nothing to do with the properties of a hitbox event. Synch being with respect to the previous timer event (synch 12 means wait 12 frames before advancing in the script), and asynch is with respect to the beginning of the script (asynch 20 means wait until 20 total frames have passed since script start). There's no such thing as a Synch/Asynch hitbox.
Sycorax
Smash Ace
Those are just timers that or used to order the commands of moves. In that first picture, the asynchronous timer counts to 4 and then, on the 4th frame of Fox's bair, the three hitboxes comes out. Some other stuff happens. Four frames after that 4th frame, i.e. on frame 8, the hitbox properties change to weak bair. Then, 12 frames later, the hitboxes are removed. Then 3 frames later, the autocancel window opens. Then, on the 38th frame of the move, the IASA window opens. The asynchronous timer counts total frames of the move. The synchronous timer counts frames from the most recent frame.
EDIT: Damn, Magus beat me to the punch
Last edited:
Army805
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2015
- Messages
- 52
I guess I'm confused to exactly why Shai dropping from wait is 5 frames while perfect shield dropping is 2 frames, I feel like i'm overlooking something.
It's expecting you're not holding down beforehand, so it takes time to input shai drop.
Last edited:
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Anyone know what the exact height of Ganon's throws are? I want to be able to test some stuff on ikneeddata, but I can't get exact results unless I can input the exact vertical origin of his throws.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Not an quick solution, but you could use debug vs. a spare controller to find out what % Ganon's throw will cause Fox to land on a platform, then go into ikneedata and see what is the lowest height where the same thing happens.
Last edited:
Sycorax
Smash Ace
We got a complicate orduh.
That's a really tedious thing to figure out. It is unique for each character. It would be 4x26x26=2704 values in total.
Edit: You can figure these things out for yourself using Magus's physics mod.
Last edited:
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 496
Also on top of release points, there is the ECB pattern of each character's different damaged states that need to be considered. The melee calculator will not be able to do these kinds of stuff accurately, and probably won't until there are some significant development in the melee modding community regarding animations.
Bones0
Smash Legend
There isn't a function for hitting grabbed opponents, is there?
schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 496
On the calculator?
Bones0
Smash Legend
Yeah
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
So I'm really not very familiar with development mode. How do two character's collision boxes interact when one is in grab animation? What about when a character is being thrown? If they push up against each other, perhaps I could use the ECB Right/Left setting for whatever character is in grab to get a better approximation of the X/Y position of various character off throws.
Army805
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2015
- Messages
- 52
Hmmm interesting, so shai drops take 5 frames from wait, but when you do "buffer" (lack of better word even though its not a true buffer I don't think, correct me if i'm wrong) the down input in impact lag/landing lag it's only 2 frames. Does this mean when your shai dropping from wait theres essentially 3 frames of holding down before the L/R+down input? Sorry for all the questions, I just want to understand lol. Can you briefly explain how holding the down input in lag saves 3 frames and not 1?
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Because you have to hold down at least 3 frames before shielding or you'll spot dodge right after shield comes up.
Magus420
Smash Master
Doesn't help the ECB during KB animations issue, but I do have throw release points from working on PM throw mechanics.
Throw Release Points
Throw release points depend on the throw, what part of the animation it happens on (if weight dependent speed), and the character being thrown. There can also be some additional variance on X position with some throws that I remember seeing occasionally but couldn't care to figure out the specifics at the time (Link's d-throw iirc was one that had weird X on release that didn't fit with its ThrowN and CharOffset when used on some characters but did vs others).
Release Point = ThrowN + TransN + CharOffset
Positive X is in the direction the grabber was facing. Positive Y is upward. If ECB Bottom would touch the floor with the release point their TopN is raised up to floor height. If it does not, it's possible for their TopN to be below floor height even while onstage (I recall that happening with CF u-throw vs CF).
Throw Animation ThrowN/TransN
-- * indicates the animation frame they are released on once reached (does not include additional hitlag frames). Throws with weight dependent speed that don't fall exactly on this frame have interpolated ThrowN/TransN.
-- ThrowN is the base position of the one being thrown relative to the thrower.
-- TransN is the movement of the thrower during the throw (Pikachu's b-throw has a lot of TransN for example).
Character Offset
Throw Release Points
Throw release points depend on the throw, what part of the animation it happens on (if weight dependent speed), and the character being thrown. There can also be some additional variance on X position with some throws that I remember seeing occasionally but couldn't care to figure out the specifics at the time (Link's d-throw iirc was one that had weird X on release that didn't fit with its ThrowN and CharOffset when used on some characters but did vs others).
Release Point = ThrowN + TransN + CharOffset
Positive X is in the direction the grabber was facing. Positive Y is upward. If ECB Bottom would touch the floor with the release point their TopN is raised up to floor height. If it does not, it's possible for their TopN to be below floor height even while onstage (I recall that happening with CF u-throw vs CF).
Throw Animation ThrowN/TransN
-- * indicates the animation frame they are released on once reached (does not include additional hitlag frames). Throws with weight dependent speed that don't fall exactly on this frame have interpolated ThrowN/TransN.
-- ThrowN is the base position of the one being thrown relative to the thrower.
-- TransN is the movement of the thrower during the throw (Pikachu's b-throw has a lot of TransN for example).
Code:
Frame ThrowN TransN
--------------------------------------------------
-CF F-Throw-
18 7.53633 12.5128 *
-CF B-Throw-
20 -11.360 22.2253 *
-CF U-Throw-
11 8.63220 11.0920
12 8.63206 11.8532
13 8.63181 12.6144
14 8.63152 11.8809
15 8.63127 11.1474 *
16 9.24401 16.4542
17 9.51098 16.5699
-CF D-Throw-
15 8.57625 3.63504
...
18 8.57573 3.42992
19 8.57584 3.33719
20 8.57631 3.24386 *
21 8.57597 3.24620
22 8.48266 3.16498
-DK FF-Throw-
15 21.6851 8.56516 *
-DK FB-Throw-
15 -22.841 13.8851 *
-DK FU-Throw-
12 13.5359 12.8216
13 11.9627 18.1558
14 4.30127 29.6078 *
15 3.25976 35.9275
16 2.94430 42.1655
-DK FD-Throw-
15 24.9065 4.66490 *
-DK B-Throw-
5 -0.8809
10 -1.7668
14 -18.737 22.9823 * -2.49831
35 -7.42676
36 -7.42676
-DK U-Throw-
13 -2.3933 32.6888 *
-DK D-Throw-
23 7.33862 1.08482
24 7.30162 1.08482
...
40 7.40637 1.08482 *
41 7.42163 1.08482
42 7.43381 1.08482
-Fox F-Throw-
3 -0.2438
4 0.00000
5 0.67909
9 4.03619
10 4.60585
11 9.02201 8.47130 * 5.17469
12 5.74106
20 9.98677
25 12.1342
27 12.4923
28 12.4906
33 12.4818
-Fox B-Throw-
7 -4.3782 4.61710
8 -7.5984 11.1866
9 -6.4707 11.2994 *
10 -6.5963 11.3281
11 -6.6120 11.3317
-Fox U-Throw-
6 4.78641 14.4255
7 1.95044 19.5159
8 -0.0352 22.2114 *
9 -0.0670 22.3484
10 -0.0800 22.4555
-Fox D-Throw-
31 0.50063 5.10061
32 0.50063 5.26373
33 0.50063 5.39126 *
34 0.50063 5.46404
35 0.50063 5.51630
-G&W F-Throw-
53 8.88167 10.5293
54 8.88167 10.5293
55 12.6106 9.20251 *
56 12.6106 9.20251
57 12.6106 9.20251
-G&W B-Throw-
53 -9.2726 12.8457
54 -9.2726 12.8457
55 -14.010 10.0527 *
56 -14.010 10.0527
57 -14.010 10.0527
-G&W U-Throw-
53 -9.2726 12.8457
54 -9.2726 12.8457
55 -2.7821 21.0745 *
56 -2.7821 21.0745
57 -2.7821 21.0745
-G&W D-Throw-
53 -8.1600 12.4314
54 -8.1600 12.4314
55 -6.1200 1.21135 *
56 -6.1200 1.21135
57 -6.1200 1.21135
-Kirby F-Throw-
8 0.00000 0.00000
9 0.80479 1.77362
10 1.62645 3.56161
27 14.4139 19.7691
28 14.8966 19.7123
32 16.2546 12.5141
34 16.7838 0.00000
44 16.8096 0.00000
45 1.43280 -0.0892 * 16.7500 1.43259 18.1828 1.34339
50 15.3473 6.82204
58 11.9783 9.85353
59 11.6938 9.79659
61 11.3383 9.41728
-- 11.2199 9.10415
-Kirby B-Throw-
10 2.98551 0.00000
... 2.98551 0.00000
16 2.98551 0.00000
17 0.71921 8.58135
18 -1.2158 14.2145
20 -4.1328 17.4456
21 -5.1352 15.4479
23 -6.2786 3.49188
24 -6.7101 0.00000
... -6.7101 0.00000
29 -5.9339 1.09228 * -6.7101 0.00000 -12.644 1.09228
... -6.7101 0.00000
35 -6.7101 0.00000
36 -6.4142 0.00000
40 -4.5228 0.00000
49 -0.3623 0.00000
-- -0.2347 0.00000
-Kirby U-Throw-
5 0.00000 0.00000
6 0.00000 6.37113
7 0.00000 23.6749
15 0.00000 230.000
27 0.00000 249.134
28 0.00000 249.358
29 0.00000 248.996
35 0.00000 230.000
36 0.00000 220.670
44 0.00000 24.7696
45 0.00000 0.25882
46 0.00000 0.00000
51 6.20753 5.38381 * 0.00000 0.00000 6.20753 5.38381
52 -1.4243 4.27011
55 -5.2986 13.3965
59 -9.5792 18.2589
60 -10.499 18.4001
61 -11.362 18.3504
70 -16.730 17.5857
79 -18.404 16.6500
-- -18.415 16.4752
-Kirby D-Throw-
57 3.09553 1.46822 *
-Bowser F-Throw-
35 17.5745 16.7415 *
-Bowser B-Throw-
18 -14.669 24.3290 * 0.00000
...
30 0.00000
31 -0.6322
33 -3.9392
35 -6.0789
... -6.0789
-Bowser U-Throw-
50 -0.2700 14.8127
51 1.15596 25.7626
52 1.11454 34.2259 *
53 1.01697 34.2289
54 0.89577 34.2326
-Bowser D-Throw-
56 13.7997 7.97297 *
-Bowser KF-Throw-
15 0.00000
16 1.22193
17 3.91726
18 15.8029 6.46747 * 6.63030
19 7.90535
30 9.18382
39 10.9343
40 11.1657
-- 11.3371
-Bowser KB-Throw-
14 -20.768 12.1021 * 0.00000
26 0.00000
27 -0.01923
35 -1.91565
39 -4.37019
40 -5.17662
-- -5.86306
-Link F-Throw-
16 11.5061 14.3375 *
-Link B-Throw-
16 -10.782 17.0780 *
-Link U-Throw-
25 0.30499 29.7616
26 0.48044 31.2174
27 0.54617 31.2413 *
28 0.54147 31.2622
29 0.49642 31.2789
-Link D-Throw-
26 -5.1635 0.15247
27 -5.5198 0.58314
28 -5.2788 -0.0610 *
29 -5.2692 -0.0860
30 -5.2614 -0.1066
-Luigi F-Throw-
12 8.60534 9.09100 *
-Luigi B-Throw-
44 -5.8218 10.2289 *
-Luigi U-Throw-
16 -0.6738 3.56149
17 -0.5793 7.42040
18 -0.5018 18.5491 *
19 -0.4940 18.9771
20 -0.5010 19.3271
-Luigi D-Throw-
16 -1.4026 16.1662
17 -0.2704 13.1363
18 -1.5057 2.93436 *
19 -1.4007 3.06379
20 -1.2956 3.08359
-Mario F-Throw-
12 7.5727 8.00009 *
-Mario B-Throw-
44 -5.1232 9.00145 *
-Mario U-Throw-
16 -0.5929 3.13413
17 -0.5098 6.52997
18 -0.4416 16.3233 *
19 -0.4347 16.6999
20 -0.4409 17.0078
-Mario D-Throw-
16 -1.2343 14.2262
17 -0.2379 11.5600
18 -1.3251 2.58225 *
19 -1.2326 2.69615
20 -1.1401 2.71357
-Marth F-Throw-
12 11.1683 9.84167
13 9.44960 6.36311
14 8.18196 1.77321 *
15 8.12133 1.53742
16 8.07226 1.31479
-Marth B-Throw-
5 0.02158 9.56328
6 -0.7693 7.92358
7 -0.8121 7.83451 *
8 -0.8640 7.75129
9 -0.9240 7.67382
-Marth U-Throw-
10 10.5103 11.9278
11 13.4213 16.3717
12 5.68346 24.3936 *
13 5.32021 26.5133
14 5.03991 28.7261
-Marth D-Throw-
12 12.4810 8.26519
13 11.1965 6.23059
14 8.09110 2.68214 *
15 5.77836 0.13357
16 5.77836 -0.0706
-Mewtwo F-Throw-
18 16.3272 27.4193 *
-Mewtwo B-Throw-
29 -7.7144 26.5453 *
-Mewtwo U-Throw-
40 2.26330 30.2578
41 2.26330 30.2810
42 2.26330 30.2982 *
43 2.26330 30.3087
44 2.26330 30.3124
-Mewtwo D-Throw-
23 11.4276 1.28223
24 10.8831 0.49226
25 10.9009 0.47735 *
26 10.9222 4.87450
27 10.9763 15.3592
-Ness F-Throw-
27 11.5000 9.77506 *
-Ness B-Throw-
27 -13.554 14.8295 *
-Ness U-Throw-
34 2.50000 17.8527
35 2.49668 17.8481
36 2.49245 17.8440 *
37 2.48751 17.8404
38 2.48202 17.8373
-Ness D-Throw-
28 -2.2180 1.56098
29 -2.2367 1.72976
30 -2.2612 1.93382 *
31 -2.2585 2.31548
32 -2.2037 2.40110
-Peach F-Throw-
13 6.16056 10.3451
14 6.27994 10.3451
15 6.27994 10.3451 *
16 6.27994 10.3451
17 6.27994 10.3451
-Peach B-Throw-
21 -6.5123 10.3866 *
-Peach U-Throw-
23 -0.4209 25.1126
24 -0.4237 22.8878
25 -0.4209 25.1126 *
26 -0.4181 27.3373
27 -0.4195 26.1837
-Peach D-Throw-
41 -3.2458 -0.3149
42 -3.2483 -0.1038
43 -3.2483 -0.1038 *
44 -3.2483 -0.1038
45
-3.2483 -0.1038
-Pikachu F-Throw-
27 5.38671 10.6099
28 5.11370 11.8174
29 7.08556 11.7272 *
30 8.78181 11.6370
31 9.01829 11.6768
-Pikachu B-Throw-
3 0.00000
4 -1.3370
15 -14.628
20 -19.377
27 -24.048
28 4.00700 7.81304 -24.494
29 1.42300 9.20767 -24.878
30 -3.2930 8.74976 * -25.200
31 -3.5020 8.64152 -25.474
32 -3.3070 8.47367 -25.719
41 -26.882
48 -27.004
49 -27.002
-- -27.002
-Pikachu U-Throw-
18 2.45083 14.9740
19 2.43049 17.6833
20 2.40722 14.9081 *
21 2.38230 17.6173
22 2.35701 16.0467
-Pikachu D-Throw-
18 -0.2334 0.51671
19 -1.1140 1.96314
20 -0.5405 1.17256 *
21 -3.1442 6.05144
22 -4.5321 11.4901
-ICs F-Throw-
26 15.7333 8.11397
27 14.9892 8.15784
28 14.2476 8.20171 *
29 14.9987 8.15784
30 15.7513 8.11397
-ICs B-Throw-
15 -5.2059 11.3729
16 -6.8361 11.5290
17 -10.172 9.69242 *
18 -13.727 8.53091
19 -16.326 9.91663
-ICs U-Throw-
29 -4.0256 26.9426
30 -4.0256 29.3622
31 -4.0256 26.9426 *
32 -3.9917 27.7616
33 -3.9480 28.5807
-ICs D-Throw-
34 13.2703 4.63211
35 13.2908 3.25132
36 13.3134 3.25132 *
37 13.3436 3.25132
38 13.3864 3.25132
-Jigglypuff F-Throw-
8 9.12599 6.58010
9 10.2019 6.58010
10 11.2800 6.58010 *
11 11.2828 6.58010
12 11.2800 6.58010
-Jigglypuff B-Throw-
15 0.00000
16 -0.0940
20 -7.5200
23 -5.9100 -0.0630 -7.5200
24 -6.0730 0.44739 -7.5200
25 -6.2320 0.71290 * -7.5200
26 -6.3616 0.52940 -7.4754
27 -6.4554 0.30614 -7.3336
28 -7.0832
33 -2.5548
39 -0.0358
40 0.00000
... 0.00000
-Jigglypuff U-Throw-
6 -3.0836 7.90553
7 -4.5592 9.34938
8 -4.0995 10.5044 *
9 -2.3493 10.7122
10 0.11034 10.5044
-Jigglypuff D-Throw-
61 0.93401 1.35695
62 0.97649 1.37719
63 0.99571 1.39779 *
64 1.01037 1.43775
65 1.00513 1.46202
-Samus F-Throw-
15 9.17490 20.4992 *
-Samus B-Throw-
11 -14.370 19.1663 *
-Samus U-Throw-
29 0.79793 40.6641
30 0.79793 41.7047
31 0.79793 41.7047 *
32 0.79793 41.7047
33 0.79793 41.7047
-Samus D-Throw-
19 16.3831 9.69041
20 12.9568 -0.6513
21 13.0290 1.57963 *
22 12.9714 -0.7415
23 12.9646 -0.8414
-Yoshi F-Throw-
19 13.9279 20.6202 *
-Yoshi B-Throw-
19 -15.964 16.6653 *
-Yoshi U-Throw-
10 1.91748 7.47606
11 1.50579 9.58545
12 -1.9667 29.6349 *
13 -2.1663 30.7874
14 -2.3068 31.5989
-Yoshi D-Throw-
12 -1.3576 7.40034
13 -1.7239 2.47770
14 -1.3429 1.53477 *
15 -0.9008 1.39857
16 -0.9008 1.44012
-Zelda F-Throw-
32 9.05510 12.3484 *
-Zelda B-Throw-
26 -7.2230 11.4296
27 -9.4405 12.3183
28 -14.816 13.1514 *
29 -14.902 13.1514
30 -14.859 13.1514
-Zelda U-Throw-
27 -4.3415 23.9912
28 -4.4479 24.0280
29 -4.4844 24.0404 *
30 -4.4844 24.0404
31 -4.4844 24.0404
-Zelda D-Throw-
48 -0.2381 -0.2854
49 -0.1396 -0.2941
50 -0.0411 -0.2985 *
51 0.05740 -0.2658
52 0.15590 -0.1634
-Sheik F-Throw-
24 9.92890 9.89187 *
-Sheik B-Throw-
1 -0.2112
4 -1.9212
... -1.9212
13 -1.9212
14 -4.2506
15 -6.5799
20 -13.889 9.90452 * -6.5799
-- -6.5799
-Sheik U-Throw-
21 -5.7801 27.0356
22 -4.5844 27.0356
23 -5.7801 27.0356 *
24 -5.7801 27.0356
25 -5.7801 27.0356
-Sheik D-Throw-
34 -0.1612 3.31756
35 -0.2340 3.21420
36 -0.3095 3.12073 *
37 -0.3797 3.04454
38 -0.4364 2.99298
-Falco F-Throw-
3 -0.2794
4 0.00000
5 0.77813
9 4.62480
10 5.27754
11 10.3378 9.70669 * 5.92933
12 6.57830
20 11.4432
25 13.9038
27 14.3141
28 14.3121
33 14.3020
-Falco B-Throw-
7 -5.0114 5.29041
8 -8.7066 12.8180
9 -7.4174 12.9472 *
10 -7.5613 12.9801
11 -7.5793 12.9842
-Falco U-Throw-
5 5.95668 8.46180
6 3.91996 22.8204
7 2.85313 29.3586 *
8 2.85521 29.3302
9 2.86133 29.2769
-Falco D-Throw-
31 0.57363 5.84444
32 0.57363 6.03135
33 0.57363 6.17748 *
34 0.57363 6.26086
35 0.57363 6.32075
-Y Link F-Throw-
16 9.04736 11.2818 *
-Y Link B-Throw-
16 -8.4910 13.4383 *
-Y Link U-Throw-
25 0.23335 23.4189
26 0.37141 24.5644
27 0.42313 24.5832 *
28 0.41943 24.5997
29 0.38398 24.6128
-Y Link D-Throw-
26 -4.0697 0.11987
27 -4.3501 0.45876
28 -4.1604 -0.0478 *
29 -4.1529 -0.0678
30 -4.1468 -0.0840
-Dr Mario F-Throw-
12 7.20597 8.03310 *
-Dr Mario B-Throw-
44 -5.1232 9.00145 *
-Dr Mario U-Throw-
16 -0.5929 3.13413
17 -0.5098 6.52997
18 -0.4416 16.3233 *
19 -0.4249 16.6904
20 -0.4036 16.9717
-Dr Mario D-Throw-
16 -1.2343 14.2262
17 -0.2379 11.5600
18 -1.3251 2.58225 *
19 -1.2326 2.69615
20 -1.1401 2.71357
-Roy F-Throw-
12 10.4885 9.24262
13 8.87441 5.97579
14 7.68393 1.66529 *
15 7.62699 1.44385
16 7.58091 1.23477
-Roy B-Throw-
5 0.02027 8.98117
6 -0.7225 7.44128
7 -0.7627 7.35764 *
8 -0.8114 7.27948
9 -0.8678 7.20673
-Roy U-Throw-
10 9.87056 11.2018
11 12.6043 15.3752
12 5.33751 22.9088 *
13 4.99637 24.8995
14 4.73314 26.9776
-Roy D-Throw-
12 11.7213 7.76210
13 10.5150 5.85134
14 7.59860 2.51889 *
15 5.42663 0.12544
16 5.42663 -0.0663
-Pichu F-Throw-
29 2.54156 7.88035 *
-Pichu B-Throw-
30 -2.819 6.70068 * -14.000
49 -15.001
-- -15.001
-Pichu U-Throw-
20 1.60236 11.9928 *
-Pichu D-Throw-
20 -0.3003 1.32920 *
-Ganondorf F-Throw-
18 8.39096 13.9318 *
-Ganondorf B-Throw-
20 -12.648 24.7457 *
-Ganondorf U-Throw-
13 9.61068 14.0448
14 9.61035 13.2282
15 9.61007 12.4115 *
16 10.2923 18.3201
17 10.5895 18.4490
-Ganondorf D-Throw-
18 9.54823 3.81887
19 9.54836 3.71562
20 9.54888 3.61171 *
21 9.54850 3.61431
22 9.44461 3.52388Character Offset
Code:
Melee X Y
---------------------------------
Pichu 0.0000 -4.5996
Jigglypuff 0.0000 -5.0000
Kirby 0.0000 -5.0000
Ice Climbers 0.0000 -5.0042
Ness 0.0000 -5.0042
Yoshi 0.0000 -5.6000
Dr Mario 0.0000 -5.6672
Luigi 0.0000 -5.6672
Mario 0.0000 -5.6672
Pikachu 0.0000 -5.7997
Game & Watch 0.0000 -6.1937
Sheik -0.3466 -8.2405
Falco 0.0000 -8.3000
Fox 0.0000 -8.3000
Link -0.2257 -8.5516
Young Link -0.2334 -8.5533
Peach 0.0000 -9.4000
Zelda 0.0000 -9.4000
Marth -0.4263 -9.8485
Roy -0.4263 -9.8485
Mewtwo -0.2257 -10.3076
Donkey Kong 0.0000 -13.4311
Captain Falcon +0.4884 -13.8475
Ganondorf +0.4884 -13.8475
Samus +0.4884 -13.8475
Bowser 0.0000 -15.5250schmooblidon
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Feb 18, 2014
- Messages
- 496
There is not, but would it any difference to hitting regularly?
Yooo Magus coming in with the massive knowledge drop! Thank you so much man, this is incredibly helpful.
Edit: Does anyone have hitbox properties for Dot eyes and Stitch? I can't find them anywhere
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Magus420
Smash Master
http://smashboards.com/threads/peach-data-and-notes.309178/page-2#post-13412721
They all share the same hitbox data, just with the damage replaced when thrown. The turnip hitbox is directly after the Odds/Damages (0x4150).
Damage: X - 0.4 + (Speed * 3), Angle: 361, KBG: 60, BKB: 25
EDIT: Might as well include this stuff too:
They all share the same hitbox data, just with the damage replaced when thrown. The turnip hitbox is directly after the Odds/Damages (0x4150).
Damage: X - 0.4 + (Speed * 3), Angle: 361, KBG: 60, BKB: 25
Code:
2 Smiley Damage
2 r.r Damage
2 -.- Damage
2 O_O Damage
2 ^_^ Damage
6 Winking Damage
12 Dot Eye Damage
30 Stitchface DamageEDIT: Might as well include this stuff too:
Code:
0.6 [3F19999A] Turnip Item Throw Speed Multiplier
0 [00000000] Turnip Air Friction
0.051 [3D50E560] Turnip Gravity
1.8 [3FE66666] Turnip Terminal Velocity
1 [3F800000] Turnip Throw Animation Speed
-0.4 [BECCCCCD] Turnip Base Damage Reduction
3.0 [40400000] Turnip Speed Damage Boost Multiplier
Code:
Throw X Y Speed Angle
-------------------------------------------------------------
Grd Frwd Normal 1.4918 0.4561 1.5600 (2.600) 17
Grd Frwd Smash 2.1439 0.4167 2.1840 (3.640) 11
Grd Frwd Dash 1.9954 0.4241 2.0400 (3.400) 12
Grd Back Normal -1.4918 0.4561 1.5600 (2.600) 17
Grd Back Smash -2.1439 0.4167 2.1840 (3.640) 11
Grd Up Normal 0.0000 1.8600 1.8600 (3.100) 90
Grd Up Smash 0.0000 2.6040 2.6040 (4.340) 90
Grd Down Normal 0.0000 -1.9800 1.9800 (3.300) 270
Grd Down Smash 0.0000 -2.7720 2.7720 (4.620) 270
Air Frwd Normal 1.4918 0.4561 1.5600 (2.600) 17
Air Frwd Smash 1.5200 0.3509 1.5600 (2.600) 13
Air Back Normal -1.4918 0.4561 1.5600 (2.600) 17
Air Back Smash -1.5200 0.3509 1.5600 (2.600) 13
Air Up Normal 0.0000 1.8600 1.8600 (3.100) 90
Air Up Smash 0.0000 1.8600 1.8600 (3.100) 90
Air Down Normal 0.0000 -1.9800 1.9800 (3.300) 270
Air Down Smash 0.0000 -1.9800 1.9800 (3.300) 270
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Army805
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2015
- Messages
- 52
Ohhhh I looked at the shai drop thread and it all made sense, thanks.
I know if you're in hitlag for both attacker and defender you're frozen, but if you do an aerial in midair and hit an enemy, do you literally just not move at all in midair for the x hitlag frames you experience (unaffected by gravity if that exists in melee lol)?
Also another related question:
Say you start an aerial at frame 1 and it ends on frame 25 normally. If you suffer 3 hitlag frames in between by hitting an enemy, the aerial would then end on frame 28 right?
Also another related question:
Say you start an aerial at frame 1 and it ends on frame 25 normally. If you suffer 3 hitlag frames in between by hitting an enemy, the aerial would then end on frame 28 right?
Sycorax
Smash Ace
Yes. You don't move. There is gravity in Melee (there's even air friction and terminal velocity too!), and it doesn't apply while in hitlag.
Yes.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Grabbed opponents have significantly reduced KB. It'd be useful to know, for instance, whether a grab usmash would KO or if the Fox would have to wait for the grab release before usmashing.
What's the difference between landlag and landfallspecial lag for special attacks like sheik up-b? I read that landfall special takes place after the initial animation but just want to makes sure I understand exactly what that means.
For the sake of example...
sheik's upb is 94 frames total, with 30 frames landlag, 4 landfall special. Am I right in understanding that she has exactly 30 frames landlag any time within the 94 frames of her up b animation, and landing any frame 95+ or later would be exactly 4?
It seems like sheik always has so much delay after recovering, so it seems like she always get at least 30 frames...
For the sake of example...
sheik's upb is 94 frames total, with 30 frames landlag, 4 landfall special. Am I right in understanding that she has exactly 30 frames landlag any time within the 94 frames of her up b animation, and landing any frame 95+ or later would be exactly 4?
It seems like sheik always has so much delay after recovering, so it seems like she always get at least 30 frames...
Bones0
Smash Legend
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What are the 3 different amounts for the spacies up-b (1 from mid-animation, 1 from after the up-b animation is done which is landfallspecial, and what's the last one) ? And you mean 3 frames of landing lag from landfall special for the spacies up-b right?
Looking here http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-fox-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285177/ for reference
Sycorax
Smash Ace
Special moves, unlike nearly every other move in the game, are coded in "sections" sorta. What I mean is that there is a unique name for different parts of the up-b animations. For example, Sheik's up-b is made of 358, 359, and 360, the initial jump, the invisible part, and the part at the end where she reappears (the animations are also named with numbers which is really annoying ~_~). If she up-b's on the ground, the animation names are completely different.
A lot of up-b's have an ending animation that looks like regular FallSpecial but isn't. It is still part of their up-b. For Sheik, this is 360. She falls a considerable distance while in 360, about the height of the Yoshi's Story top platform. If she lands during this animation, she enters LandingFallSpecial with 30 frames of landing lag. If she falls long enough to enter FallSpecial, she will land and enter LandingFallSpecial but with 4 frames of landing lag.
Fox is a similar but slightly different case. His ending animation on his up-b where he falls is called 358. It lasts considerably less than Sheik's falling animation. If he lands during it, he incurs 6 frames of lag. If he lands after it during FallSpecial, he incurs 3.
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I just tested it using 20xx develop mode with the frame by frame advance, and LandFallSpecial is always 30 frames. but if you fall for long enough, you can cancel the 30 frames after frame 4 by inputting dash. I actually also landed during 360 and was still able to cancel the lag after 4 frames (easy way to do this was go to FD, hold up lightly so you wont jump. hit b while still holding up, and when you land you'll be in 360, but can still cancel after the 4th frame)
Also I tried fox's side b and when I land really close ot the ground, and then hit the ground, i go into landfallspecial for ~30 frames before I can shield, but http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-fox-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285177/ says 20. Am i missing something? The reason I put ~30 is for some reason when I'm advancing through LandFallSpecial it jumps like ~1.6 frames at a time instead of just 1 frame
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Sycorax
Smash Ace
Yeah, LandingFallSpecial is always 30 frames for every character, but some of them can cancel it earlier than others. It's basically the same as IASA frames. Unlike IASA, you can cancel it with anything, doesn't have to be dash.
No you didn't. 360 only lasts 39 frames. If you up-b straight up from the ground, you'll spend 39 frames in 360 and then land on frame 40. The game counts this as landing out of FallSpecial and gives you the reduced landing lag.
Gotcha. When I illusion with Fox and land without entering FallSpecial , I can't cancel the IASA frames (not technically IASA but i just mean those cancellable frames) from 21 to 30. http://smashboards.com/threads/complete-fox-hitboxes-and-frame-data.285177/ says there's 20 frames of landing lag. Is it wrong or am i missing something?
Sycorax
Smash Ace
That's weird. Literally just hold shield any time and it will cancel as soon as possible. In the case of Fox's side-b landing lag, instead of LandingFallSpecial being cancelable, the animation is just accelerated. Maybe you're only paying attention to the frame counts on the right side of teh Y+down display. If you're going by those, then you'll notice it doesn't display whole numbers. That is because the animation is accelerated. The last frame will be 28.59 and you will enter Wait after that (or something else if you do an input). If you count them though, there are a total of 20 landing lag frames.
Ah that was exactly it. But what do the numbers represent for side B LandingFallSpecial in 20xx? Theyre around 1.5x a frame length.Is there a reason they don't just count a frame at a time like everything else
Sycorax
Smash Ace
Yeah. The way the game is coded, there are certain model positions associated with each frame of an animation. So for Fox's LandingFallSpecial there is a left leg position for each frame, and a right leg, and an arm, etc. But what if the developers wanted to shorten an animation? It would look weird to just cut it off, to have Fox instantly go from crouching to a standing Wait animation. The solution is to speed up the animation so you still get the whole motion of the animation but just at an accelerated rate. The game calculates fractional frames by interpolating body positions. This same thing happens for weight dependent throws.
That is actually insane how the game works and also how much people know about it haha... Thanks for the help
Bones0
Smash Legend
Sorry, I was mistaken, it's just the two. SplitsOnTrees was correct with what he said, it's either 3 or 6.
Army805
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 7, 2015
- Messages
- 52
Is there anything out there on the physics of momentum (lack of better word) in melee? By momentum, I mean why exactly do you jump farther if you analog jump fully foward from dash, opposed to a fully forward analog jump from just standing, or why can Luigi WD forward, then walk forward and he will walk faster than normal for a bit? If I'm understanding something incorrectly, please let me know. I think I've heard something about if you're moving faster than you're max walk speed then you will slide during jumpsquat, aka why you slide during JC stuff, but I might be wrong, and that doesn't even apply to the Luigi example. I'm assuming there's different reasons for both examples because they're a bit different, but i'm confused on this momentum aspect of the melee physics engine.
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Army805
I don't quite see what you're unsure about. You jump speed is faster from dash than stand because jump squat doesn't stop you and thus your speed before the jump naturally carries over to your speed in the air. With most characters limit speed during jump is higher than what can be achieved simply by the vector added from the jump itself. For walk there's a max speed, but if you're moving at higher speed at the start of the walk, you'll deccelerate to the max walk speed over time rather than instantly slowing down to it.
Sycorax
Smash Ace
When you enter KneeBend you maintain your momentum before the jump, but friction still applies each frame of KneeBend. When you enter the air, the game multiplies your velocity on the last grounded frame by a horizontal jump velocity multiplier that ranges from .7 to 1 depending on your character. Then it adds a bit based on your analog X input. This is the analog jump mechanic and ranges from .6 to 1. Finally, the game checks this value and compares it to a maximum horizontal jump speed value. Your speed on the first airborne frame is the smaller of the two values.
An analog jump from standing would be 0*[velocity multiplier]+[analog effect], which ends up only being the analog portion which has a max value of 1 among characters. However, if you have speed left over from, say, dashing, the formula would become [dash speed - some traction]*[velocity multiplier] + [analog effect]. Dash and run speeds range from 1 to 2.3.
I'll go through an example. Captain Falcon has an initial dash velocity of 2. Say he dashes for 1 frame, then jumps which takes 4 frames. 4 frames of Falcon traction = .08*4 = .32. That means he is traveling at 1.68 on the last frame of jumpsquat. His horizontal jump velocity multiplier is 0.75 and his analog jump benefit is 0.95. 1.68*.75+.95=2.21. His max horizontal jump speed is 2.1. Min(2.21, 2.1)=2.1. Therefore he will travel at 2.1 melee meters per frame upon entering the air.
Luigi has a lot of speed out of wavedash. He keeps that speed when he exits the "landing lag" of the wavedash. If he starts walking out of the wavedash, it doesn't matter how fast he is going. The game just interprets it as a walk input, but he keeps his speed. It should be noted that when a character's ground speed exceeds their max walk speed, traction is applied doubly. Once Luigi slows down to max walk speed, he'll just remain at that speed because traction stops applying (if he continues to hold forward).
You will slide during jumpsquat as long as your speed before entering jumpsquat is greater than zero.
Bones0
Smash Legend
Fun fact of the day:
Most of you tech junkies probably know that jump cancelled usmashes and up-Bs are only possible because the devs didn't want to require players to do frame perfect inputs with up on the control stick. Then there are also standing fsmashes which have a 3(?)-frame window. Similarly, boost grabbing is possible so that people who use L/R+A to grab can accidentally press A a few frames before the trigger and still get the grab.
Unless I'm alone in my ignorance, I've never been able to figure why in the world jump cancelled grabs are possible. Then today I was thinking about throwing items, and I realized that if someone wanted to throw an item upwards with Z, they might very easily press up on the control stick a tad early, the same as with usmashes and up-Bs. As a result, the devs allowed players to interrupt jumpsquat with Z-actions for items, and the fact that grabs work as well is just a consequence of them using the same input as item throws!
Can anyone explain this? I understand hitting people with certain moves after missed techs can cause anti-gravity drift, but I'm not sure that anyone has ever explained why. From what I know, it seems to be a result of the game getting confused by the DownDamage animation's timer. Seeing (what appears to be) the same effect occur on an airborne opponent in hitstun is even more intriguing, and since the character isn't in DownDamage, I'm guessing that the timer on the shine's hitstun is what's causing the gravity problem and also allowing the Fox to jump to his death (something that's normally impossible; e.g. Luigi ladder and boomerang jump). Does anyone know what the limitations are with this scenario, and what role does KB stacking play, if any?
Most of you tech junkies probably know that jump cancelled usmashes and up-Bs are only possible because the devs didn't want to require players to do frame perfect inputs with up on the control stick. Then there are also standing fsmashes which have a 3(?)-frame window. Similarly, boost grabbing is possible so that people who use L/R+A to grab can accidentally press A a few frames before the trigger and still get the grab.
Unless I'm alone in my ignorance, I've never been able to figure why in the world jump cancelled grabs are possible. Then today I was thinking about throwing items, and I realized that if someone wanted to throw an item upwards with Z, they might very easily press up on the control stick a tad early, the same as with usmashes and up-Bs. As a result, the devs allowed players to interrupt jumpsquat with Z-actions for items, and the fact that grabs work as well is just a consequence of them using the same input as item throws!
Can anyone explain this? I understand hitting people with certain moves after missed techs can cause anti-gravity drift, but I'm not sure that anyone has ever explained why. From what I know, it seems to be a result of the game getting confused by the DownDamage animation's timer. Seeing (what appears to be) the same effect occur on an airborne opponent in hitstun is even more intriguing, and since the character isn't in DownDamage, I'm guessing that the timer on the shine's hitstun is what's causing the gravity problem and also allowing the Fox to jump to his death (something that's normally impossible; e.g. Luigi ladder and boomerang jump). Does anyone know what the limitations are with this scenario, and what role does KB stacking play, if any?