Offense vs Defense: Which characters do I camp? CURRENTLY INCOMPLETE

[Pierce7d]

Neo, I'm definitely more aggressive than I am defensive in MOST match-ups. Actually, I'm writing this thread to talk about WHEN it's really advisable to camp.

As for when I played you? I spent a lot of time switching between the styles (I know you noticed). I wanted to see how you reacted to each/which one had what advantages, etc. Refining defense is still important. It's not ALWAYS the worst option. This thread is all about the balance between the two.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Nice read. Even if its unfinished. Lol i only come to the marth boards nowdays to give feedback.




*Tortures Viet*

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

If the opponent has a projectile that is easy to fan, you can camp.

Great read Pierce. I skimmed it, I'll go more in-depth when it's finished.

 

[Remzi]

If the opponent has a projectile that is easy to fan, you can camp.

Even if the projectiles are easy to fan off, the person firing the projectiles is in a better and safer position, so they have no reason to approach. Marth has nothing to gain by standing in place and knocking down projectiles; all he is doing is putting himself, at the very least, at a minimal risk of taking damage and stands nothing to gain. The way I see it, if the other person has a projectile, you must play aggressive.

 

[phi1ny3]

Unless your space a good punish (like tipped dtilt), so that they think that they might still have one shot before ceasing on firing and begin attacking. Other than that, I agree with what Bengals says, you'll have to go offensive. I prefer breaking up the anti-camp journey into segments. there's no man's land, where you're so far, your opponent will pummel you with projectiles with no end just for damage. There's mid way, where he's doing this and maybe a zair or good spacing aerial from getting closer. There's the liftoff area, where he's about to fire maybe one more shot before you do a jump or something right before an attack, and then there's the close quarters, where he either needs to reset his spacing for more projectiles (which isn't always possible), or fend off/ take advantage of your forced movement with their own close up attacks. This mentality imo helps almost any character, but luckily with marth, the liftoff area and close quarters area can be blurred to the point where you can slash them before they might react.

 

[feardragon64]

Even if the projectiles are easy to fan off, the person firing the projectiles is in a better and safer position, so they have no reason to approach. Marth has nothing to gain by standing in place and knocking down projectiles; all he is doing is putting himself, at the very least, at a minimal risk of taking damage and stands nothing to gain. The way I see it, if the other person has a projectile, you must play aggressive.

Alright people we're playing word games.

If the opponent has a projectile you cannot CAMP. Camping in the sense that you put some distance between the two of you and don't decrease the distance yourself.

If the opponent has a projectile you can still be DEFENSIVE. And by that I mean you sit right outside your range(and theirs minus projectile) and force them to do something else because you'll be close enough to punish them for trying to abuse a projectile(i.e. falco using lasers at close range). I'm trying to think of a projectile you can't really do this with. You could argue some projectiles like Peach for instance can be used while distancing themselves or retreating(i.e. glide toss, jumping backwards and throwing, etc.) but ultimately they run out of space on the stage. They're cornered. After that you just have to play right in front of their face but don't let them escape. Punish any commitments they make. It's like turtling in front of their face. Only you back them up against a wall then turtle just in front of them so you're essentially also a "wall." Just a wall that will attack them if they come too close or make a mistake.

So I guess I disagree with your wording bengalz but I don't really blame you because this whole argument has been people using different definitions of different words so we're all arguing even though generally we're all agreeing for the most part. At least that's how I see it but I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time.

Are we done with semantics or am I wrong?

 

[ZHMT]

What Fear said.

To sum it up, staying at fsmash range against Falco is defensive. Defensive is punishing your opponents mistakes when focusing on not getting hit yourself. You only approach when a mistake is made. If the Falco uses a laser and you are close to him, you can punish with a PS and db, grab, whatever.

Agressive is when you slowly zone in on your opponent and notice their habits, exploiting them, and keeping pressure on the opponent. Works on both aggressive players and defensive.

Personally I feel playing defensive against a character with projectiles is pretty boring and somewhat annoying AND less effective most of the time, so just attack plz

 

[_Kadaj_]

You ever notice why falco players roll so much?

I think its because they either haven't developed an inside game due them wanting to run away and shoot lasers a the time or due to the fact that they just don't have one...

 

[Remzi]

You ever notice why falco players roll so much?

I think its because they either haven't developed an inside game due them wanting to run away and shoot lasers a the time or due to the fact that they just don't have one...

A combination of that and Falco's roll is really good. But really, they have some good inside options, but most of them don't work against Marth.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I know they have some I was regarding against marth, lol rolling is gay

 

[ZHMT]

When people like to roll, just use retreating fairs more, dtilt works too. Once you hit your opponent with a untipped dtilt or hit their shield, you should be able to get damage in if they roll, spot dodge, or move away, or jump.

 

[Remzi]

I seriously don't see why people have trouble punishing rolls. I haven't had any trouble with it for a long while. It's exactly as ZMT says, retreating fairs and dtilts do NOT allow your opponent to roll safely. Just keep your eyes peeled and be ready to immediately react when you see them beginning to roll. DB is a great roll punisher.

 

[_Kadaj_]

I actually specialize my game on punishing rolling

 

[_Kadaj_]

Will this ever be completed lool

 

[ZHMT]

<-- Best campy Marth

lmfao jk

Trying to break dumb habits...pure defense sucks <<

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Ahh nice thread, will finish reading sometime soon

Thanks for your time and effort :D.

 

[feardragon64]

Will this ever be completed lool

Pierce is a lurker now. He doesn't post.
Or maybe he just doesn't come here. Iono.

 

[Pr0phetic]

Pierce is a lurker now. He doesn't post.
Or maybe he just doesn't come here. Iono.

No no, he just does his guides slow xD Now that you bumped it he'll get around to it I'm sure.

 

[Darxmarth23]

I've seen him post recently.

In the Genesis thread.

Idk why he don't post here.

 

[mikeHAZE]

why have i always ignored your threads

 

[Raziek]

I for one appreciate the bump, I hadn't seen this thread before and it was a nice brush-up.

 

[_Kadaj_]

Lol at like 5 am this morning I read every thread that was made for Marth except the boss battle's one

 

[Remzi]

Lol at like 5 am this morning I read every thread that was made for Marth except the boss battle's one

lmao, why is that boss battles one in there?

good stuff though, those threads can be really helpful, most are very well written

 

[Pierce7d]

Hmm, I really should finish this. If I'm not busy on Wednesday, I'll do it.

 

[HadesBlaze]

Nice guide learned a bit while reading this first little section. I can't wait for the rest.

 

[Reizilla]

Yes, finish please. . . . . . Kadaj...

 

[Jupz]

Hopefully this gets finished, it was a great read

 

[KoSa!]

Great idea for a thread Pierce.

edit: omg my bad, just started reading.

I just do what the letters tell me

HAHA...

Good read, I like the black font idea, + "*" combo.

 

[Remzi]

Yes, finish please. . . . . . Kadaj...

this is Pierce's thread >_>

 

[uhmuzing]

I hope this gets finished up. It helps alot and is a very interesting read.

 

[Darxmarth23]

Where is Pierce?

I haven't seen him around for quite a while.

 

[Pierce7d]

I lurk. I spend more time playing Smash than studying now. I pretty much memorized most of the things that can be put in a book, and prefer to actually play the game. Seeing as I host semi-open crew meets every Monday and Tuesday, and I usually get invited to some smash event, or just someone hits me up to train or practice every other day, I'm very often busy, and don't have much time to do anything but read all the important stuff, and drop tidbits of knowledge around.