NYC/LI Power Ranking - New Rankings! Good stuff at Poly guys!

[Inui]

lucas just say it dont be cryptic I am tired and I rather read it straight.

I think I'm being rather obvious

Tantalus told me yesterday that Plank is refusing to let me be staff for Pound 5

<3

time to try and host my own national/regional again

 

[Punishment Divine]

how do NY do their rankings for wins like vinnie on ally? do you consider the player and give the full win or did ally have to go snake or mk for it to count much?

The way CM used to do it, Vinnie would get the full win but I'm more inclined to say that we as panelists have brains and can talk the win into an acceptable place, if that makes any sense. Like Vinnie said, we can count the win as beating a very good Falco, and I think that's the best way to look at these sorts of situations, since we're not machines and can talk about this sort of stuff lol

Personally, I think beating Ally's Falco should count a littleeeee more than beating someone like Keitaro, but like I said we can talk about it.

 

[ksizl4life]

oh i see. that's weird but kinda kewl. only reason i questioned it was cuz his falco has never had a good accomplishment afaik. have fun doing rankings ma ****.

i dont understand how pd. ally used it at one tourney. keitaro has more accomplishments. how can it be better than keitaro lol? thats just stepping on keits name.

question: how did you guys count my loss to will with my falco when my falco beat orion on a day he played badly and thats about it?

also im not trying to annoy or start drama. im just mad curious lol

 

[Inui]

= to beating Bloodcross/SK92?

 

[Punishment Divine]

oh i see. that's weird but kinda kewl. only reason i questioned it was cuz his falco has never had a good accomplishment afaik. have fun doing rankings ma ****.

i dont understand how pd. ally used it at one tourney. keitaro has more accomplishments. how can it be better than keitaro lol? thats just stepping on keits name.

I know what you mean about the accomplishments thing lol and not to step on Keitaro's name, but the way I see it is that Ally is an amazing player, 2nd best right now, and he must have used Falco against Vinnie because he felt he could win with that character. While this might sound a little strange counting it as such, we have to hold players to a certain level of responsibility for the characters they pick in tournament. That is, to some degree, we have to make sure players are picking their characters because they really feel confident they can win.

I'm not trying to say Ally's Falco is better than Keitaro's but by comparison, we all agree that Ally, as a PLAYER, is very, very good. It's an odd situation but idk that's just how my brain reasons it lol

 

[Alex Strife]

Tantalus told me yesterday that Plank is refusing to let me be staff for Pound 5

...sigh

Personally, I think beating Ally's Falco should count a littleeeee more than beating someone like Keitaro, but like I said we can talk about it.

I dont wanna say this but its hard to compare Allys but go based on what others said...did he really go all falco at that tournament? If so...its a little weird that he did that.

It would be odd to go falco when MK/Snake is better off vs GnW. Snake cannot be touched vs GnW

 

[ksizl4life]

I'm going Falco at this after my training this weekend

-Ally

he decided to go all falco and if he lost, he went his normal characters in losers.

 

[Punishment Divine]

What's your opinion on the matter, Kelvin?

 

[Alex Strife]

hm. Well that is interesting. I did not see teh matches so I have no right to judge but Vin's win vs Ally should be discussed by ny panel.

Also,

I wanted to say I wanted to still be on the panel. If you guys do not want me to be for whatever reasons just hit me up. I wanna be involved cause it is my state and you already know me. Like TBH its up to you guys and either way I am cool I just want that to be clarified before I really like start to post information that I have ( contrary to belief I do have knowledge of the game )

 

[Inui]

similar to beating Keitaro tbqh >_>;

Ally went all Falco in winners to be a ****** lmao

 

[BIGM1994]

ally is one of the best players in brawl and beating any of his characters as long as hes using a really good character like falco is a really good win. imo so think of it as vinnie beating ally as the player and i guess reduce it somewhat because of his character

 

[Punishment Divine]

This kind of bars the question - do we rank the player or the player's character(s)? =/

It's a really deep question imo but it kind of needs an answer...

Also Alex I have no problem with you continuing to be on the panel.

I also wouldn't mind if we got a little thing started that kinda popped into my head - what if we have a NJ player on our panel, and them likewise with a NY player?

IDK it just seemed like a good idea and wouldn't mind trying it out if NJ was willing.

 

[ksizl4life]

My opinion? that it completely goes to what system you're using.

In NJ, the current system is, you paid to enter a tourney, it's your responsibility to win or do whatever it takes to. I paid 10 dollars to enter PSI 2, i played to win the tourney and money, I lost to will and didn't use my main, so I'm fully aware of the consequences. I was counted as a full loss. If atomsk went pikachu because he thought he could beat my falco with him, and i won. that's a full win on atomsk. he took the risk so pay the consequences. This also eliminates johns and stuff on playinjg badly cuz tbh yeah it could happen you were playing like trash. but anyone can say it and pass it off. I dont play at my peak 95 percent of my matches but i dont say anything cuz why would i try to take some merit of the win from my opponent? so our system? A win is a win.

That's NJ. I still don't know what the NY system is. If you don't have a rule for this situation, make one up now lol.

 

[Punishment Divine]

My opinion? that it completely goes to what system you're using.

In NJ, the current system is, you paid to enter a tourney, it's your responsibility to win or do whatever it takes to. I paid 10 dollars to enter PSI 2, i played to win the tourney and money, I lost to will and didn't use my main, so I'm fully aware of the consequences. I was counted as a full loss. If atomsk went pikachu because he thought he could beat my falco with him, and i won. that's a full win on atomsk. he took the risk so pay the consequences. This also eliminates johns and stuff on playinjg badly cuz tbh yeah it could happen you were playing like trash. but anyone can say it and pass it off. I dont play at my peak 95 percent of my matches but i dont say anything cuz why would i try to take some merit of the win from my opponent? so our system? A win is a win.

That's NJ. I still don't know what the NY system is. If you don't have a rule for this situation, make one up now lol.

I think the "win is a win" method is most effective, because you can just just say it and leave it as that. However, since we're humans and can reason things out with one another, I'd say it's better to go the harder route of trying to reason a comparison for the win. However, there's also a lot of room for error in this method ~_~ ughh so difficult to come to a conclusion lol

So I'll go ahead and say that unless something is sketchy, we'll use the "win is a win" method. I agree that player's should be held responsible for their character choice and it is to be assumed that both players go into a match, with all intensive purposes, of trying to win that match.

 

[Alex Strife]

Ok.

A few things

This kind of bars the question - do we rank the player or the player's character(s)? =/

We are rating the player essentially. Then again it goes to that issue of is player A better than player B because he players other characters...thats what I think you mean but I rather we rate the player overall. I want , deep down, to say beating Ally is great but then with him using Falco it really does bring up a few questions. I wish we can hold off on that one win to see how Ally does in general using falco so that we can test the skills.

I also wouldn't mind if we got a little thing started that kinda popped into my head - what if we have a NJ player on our panel, and them likewise with a NY player?

If we do this we might as well make one thread for NY and NJ rankings. I do not agree with this cause we need keep it seperate. NY is NY and NJ is NJ. Is it wrong to ask for advice? No but making a NJ player a panelist will help so far. I prefer a separate approach if it will be about the NYC ranking only.

 

[KageMurphy]

Vinnie being robbed, he beat the player, his character selection is on him, shut the bull**** up.

 

[Vinnie]

I'm not being robbed! I don't care!!! lol

 

[PentaSalia]

everyone else seems to be more concerned than Vinnie himself lol

 

[Bloodcross]

Vinnie, all IC's or GAW?

Anyway, a win is a win. That's all I gotta say. Main, secondary, or sandbagging, a win is a win. If you beat Ally, you beat Ally. Nothing more to it. Should Ally not using his main discredit Vinnie's win in ANY WAY? NO.

You count it as beating Ally. Not as Keitaro and such. Last time I checked, Keitaro =/= Ally (in any way possible).

 

[Dabuz]

so, it really should be like 75% of a win, because, Winnie beat ally, the player, so thats 50% of the win, but only his falco, now, he definitely knows falco enough to use him, but, it isn't even comparable to his snake, so, in character department, thats a character he probably only has half the skill with compared to snake, so, Winnie gets 25% of the character win


if we gave him the full win, then, does that mean if i go kirby vs. jtails and lose, should he get a full win, if someone beats m2k's toonlink in tourney, is that win equal to his mk? NO! while players, especially top ones, should know the consequences of losing, its very important to remember players like ally have been known to go with other characters for fun and to be insulting with cockniess, also, ally beat vinnie 2 sets in GF with snake, so, i think that kinda helps prove my point

 

[Bloodcross]

so, it really should be like 75% of a win, because, Winnie beat ally, the player, so thats 50% of the win, but only his falco, now, he definitely knows falco enough to use him, but, it isn't even comparable to his snake, so, in character department, thats a character he probably only has half the skill with compared to snake, so, Winnie gets 25% of the character win

****, you guys got a system goin' on.

if we gave him the full win, then, does that mean if i go kirby vs. jtails and lose, should he get a full win

Yep.

if someone beats m2k's toonlink in tourney, is that win equal to his mk? NO!

Yep. Well not equal per say... but again I can't compete with this advanced system.

while players, especially top ones, should know the consequences of losing, its very important to remember players like ally have been known to go with other characters for fun and to be insulting with cockniess

Yep, it's his fault lol.

Winnie beat ally

WINNIE EVERYONE

 

[KirinBlaze]

so, it really should be like 75% of a win, because, Winnie beat ally, the player, so thats 50% of the win, but only his falco, now, he definitely knows falco enough to use him, but, it isn't even comparable to his snake, so, in character department, thats a character he probably only has half the skill with compared to snake, so, Winnie gets 25% of the character win


if we gave him the full win, then, does that mean if i go kirby vs. jtails and lose, should he get a full win, if someone beats m2k's toonlink in tourney, is that win equal to his mk? NO! while players, especially top ones, should know the consequences of losing, its very important to remember players like ally have been known to go with other characters for fun and to be insulting with cockniess, also, ally beat vinnie 2 sets in GF with snake, so, i think that kinda helps prove my point

What is this..I don't even..

BC is right. It's your own fault for playing RandomCharacterX and losing to someone else. Stop trying to use that stuff to get yourself out of losses.

 

[da K.I.D.]

My opinion? that it completely goes to what system you're using.

In NJ, the current system is, you paid to enter a tourney, it's your responsibility to win or do whatever it takes to. I paid 10 dollars to enter PSI 2, i played to win the tourney and money, I lost to will and didn't use my main, so I'm fully aware of the consequences. I was counted as a full loss. If atomsk went pikachu because he thought he could beat my falco with him, and i won. that's a full win on atomsk. he took the risk so pay the consequences. This also eliminates johns and stuff on playinjg badly cuz tbh yeah it could happen you were playing like trash. but anyone can say it and pass it off. I dont play at my peak 95 percent of my matches but i dont say anything cuz why would i try to take some merit of the win from my opponent? so our system? A win is a win.

this is exactly how we do it too.

What is this..I don't even..

BC is right. It's your own fault for playing RandomCharacterX and losing to someone else. Stop trying to use that stuff to get yourself out of losses.

This very situation happened to me.

Theres a lucario player in my area, and the first time I played him, I played characters that Im not really known for since I wasnt feeling well at the time. and then when I played him again 4 months later, I used the same two characters adn lost again.

Those 2 losses counted fully against me and because of that, he was placed higher than me on the PR.

You beat the player, not the character.

 

[Bloodcross]

This very situation happened to me.

Theres a lucario player in my area, and the first time I played him, I played characters that Im not really known for since I wasnt feeling well at the time. and then when I played him again 4 months later, I used the same two characters adn lost again.

Those 2 losses counted fully against me and because of that, he was placed higher than me on the PR.

You beat the player, not the character.

Those 2 losses counted fully against me and because of that, he was placed higher than me on the PR.

You beat the player, not the character.

YOU BEAT THE PLAYER, NOT THE CHARACTER.

This.

10blackfalcomains

 

[ch33s3]

we'll use the "win is a win" method.

So I get full wins on Will and NickRiddle, right?

EDIT: Matt sucks and ruins my trolling.

 

[Punishment Divine]

So I get full wins on Will and NickRiddle, right?

I've already told the other panel members that I'll discuss it with them, but like I said we're humans and can discuss things over. I'd rather not reveal how I personally feel on these matters to avoid controversy, but I have talked with members of the panel and others and we'll come up with something.

Also that quote was out of context lol

I'm not here to discriminate or anything, and actually suggested that you get the full win on at least Nick but we've been working it out

 

[Bloodcross]

So I get full wins on Will and NickRiddle, right?

Yes.

Their fault for pausing.

 

[ANTi_]

tl;dr - Vinnie's win on Ally's Falco WILL NOT fully count.

It'll still count though

 

[Inui]

The rankings are supposed to show skill and tournament threat level.

Beating Ally's Falco...isn't that hard. His Falco is on a level similar to Keitaro's at best due to inexperience. In grand finals, Ally won 6-1 with Snake.

Counting it as a full win would create inaccurate rankings. The rankings would show "Vinnie is good enough to take out Ally" which is clearly false.

 

[Vinnie]

Dabuz... why the **** are you calling me Winnie? >.>

 

[Vinnie]

Anyways, Punishment Divine's correct in that, the panel is good because they have a brain >.> they know when sets are faulty and realize how much it should count. Ally knew he was MOST LIKELY going to win even when getting sent to losers. Recently, he went all Marth at a NJ tourney and got 2nd to ADHD, even taking winner's finals. But even if he did get sent to loser's, if he went Snake, he'd have... a very high chance of bringing it back.

Sets can be faulty. If a person like Shippo ended up beating a person like Tyrant or something, and you LOOK INTO THE SET to find out that Tyrant went TL and daired off the edge 6 times on purpose as soon as the matches started...

or like a person like Cheese beating a person like Nick Riddle/Will. Sets can be faulty. Just because you see the names in the bracket advance doesn't mean person A beat person B's best. Yeah, it's person B's responsibility to give it their all in bracket, but face it, that's not always the case.

Lots of people like to enjoy the tourney, even in bracket, by screwing around. I, for one, have went numerous lulzy characters in tourney, even against higher level players. I've even played on Custom Stage: Bath (shoutout to bath) a couple of times. I had what was supposed to be an all Rainbow Cruise set with Shadow in winner's finals at one tourney.

The panel is realistic enough and down-to-earth enough to settle these sort of things. My opinion? I was having a good time in that set, we were having fun and laughing... it was fun. At a small, not-too-serious local. I shouldn't get a win for beating Ally's Snake when I just beat his Falco. Although I don't care much for rankings, even if I DID get the full win on ally, it'd probably put me above Dabuz and maybe Anti, where I don't even deserve / want to be.

 

[Alex Strife]

Vin you dont have to justify anything ( aka answer inui or anyone that questions it ) just congrads on 2nd.

 

[Vinnie]

Heh thanks a lot Alex .

 

[Inui]

Panels exist to give weight to wins and losses based on...a lot of factors that can vary by panelist.

The way NJ tried to do it was like...robotic and ********. It took the human aspect out of the equation, which was just dumb.

NY's doing it right.

 

[Alex Strife]

Heh thanks a lot Alex .

also want advice use the ignore feature on certain people cause they do get to you after a while. since i used it i find myself liking smashboards more XD

 

[Punishment Divine]

Guys, if you haven't given me your W/L report I need that, like today lol

And if you have done your W/L report, I would appreciate it if you could just requote them or something so they're all recent and on the next page or so.

ILY guys and all but I'm not digging through months of results threads for ya

 

[Vinnie]

Wins:
Dabuz x2
Shadow
Inui
Nike Nick
Bill_
Ling Ling
YoshQ
Stroumbert
Suinoko
Nairo
Big M
Peachkid
Bloodcross
Inui
Allied
Cheese
Jash
Yes!
Ally's Falco
Atomsk

MM wins:
Logic x2
John12346
Blackanese
Praxis
Chibosempai
Richbrown x2

MM losses:
Praxis
Reflex
Mikehaze
NickRiddle

Losses:
Doom
Will
Dabuz
Shugo (pools)
Speed (pools)
SK92 (pools)
Vex Kasrani
Gnes
Malcolm
ADHD
Teevee
Zucco
Rookie
Inui
DEHF
Ninjalink
Ally

Characters I used here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=11099118&postcount=3063

My name should appear on the rankings like this:

Vinnie

I had to use Peach to beat Suinoko and I do use her in tourney pretty often, it's up to the panelists whether you want to put her next to my name or not :V.

 

[ANTi_]

My **** so far (MMs)

- Gnes
- Razer (Two $5 MM's)
- SK92 (Two $5 MM's)
- Deez
- Kadaj
- Smurf
- Atomsk

Tournament wins
- Squall
- PatG
- Bizkit
- Inui
- Jash
- Kirin
- Dabuz
- ADHD
- ADHD
- Brood
- Vex Kasrani
- Toronto Joe
- Mikeray
- Nicole

Tournament Losses
- M2K
- Ally

MM losses
- BigLou

 

[Vinnie]

What do you mean by 'so far'? I thought the season ended.

 

[Punishment Divine]

What do you mean by 'so far'? I thought the season ended.

pretty sure he just c/p'd it from earlier lol