NU to OU: The Next Chapter

[kirbyraeg]

your argument doesn't even make sense, as you're even using calcs of a CHOICE BAND set against a TORMENT spiker. Tauros already has moves that let it hit its other counters, with the only real exception being Bronzong. There's a difference between making something capable of beating its counters and making it worth using in OU. On top of everything else, Tauros isn't particularly bulky, certainly not enough to take recoil from LO+flare blitz, and even though flare blitz provides nice coverage, it can already use the tools it has to succeed in OU.

 

[UltiMario]

The problem with OU is that if you're a sweeper you really need at least Base 130 attack to even hope to accomplish anything without boosting.
Ironically enough, Weavile pretty much outclasses anything we could do to Tauros without stat changes. It's faster, stronger, and even more specially bulky than Tauros, and with Night Slash, Ice Punch/Shard, and Low Kick it has acceptable coverage.

 

[Circa]

The problem with OU is that if you're a sweeper you really need at least Base 130 attack to even hope to accomplish anything without boosting.

Lol

Make Tauros part Ground and give it Low Kick and Extremespeed. If you also want, you can increase its Attack by 20 points as well (putting it at 510 BST). Part Ground doesn't really make sense, but I don't give a ****. It's there purely for the Sandstorm immunity and (to a very slight extent) Stealth Rock resistance. Run a moveset of Sub, Extremespeed, Low Kick, and Payback with Anger Point as your ability and hold a Salac berry. It's not going to get into OU, but it does make for a lulzy sweep when you get that boost. Get up SR and a layer of Spikes and you're basically given the ability to OHKO everything that isn't named Skarmory. +6 Extremespeed even OHKOs some Steels.

Like you said, a boost is the only way it's likely to get into OU. So I'm giving it the best possible chance for the boost and the ability to utilize it. I honestly don't care if it doesn't work or is unreasonable. I just want to see it ****ing happen so I can make people flee in terror when what could be one of their favorite things to see happen for them suddenly becomes their worst nightmare.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'd rather see it as rock type myself. Makes a bit more sense and would be more unique STAB.

 

[Circa]

I'd rather see it as rock type myself. Makes a bit more sense and would be more unique STAB.

Like I said, purely for specific merits.

Actually, another merit would a Thunder Wave immunity. That would completely ruin the set, so immunity to it would definitely be appreciated.

 

[mood4food77]

i only did torment spiker as it's the bulkiest standard set, meaning that he'll deal more to the other sets

making him ground type would work well but i honostly think flare blitz would be all
he'd be an awesome revenge killer

also weavile has low base power moves and doesnt have intimidate

unless they make elemental headbutts, i dont think giving a type change is enough
BUT extreme speed would be awesome

 

[Circa]

i only did torment spiker as it's the bulkiest standard set, meaning that he'll deal more to the other sets

making him ground type would work well but i honostly think flare blitz would be all
he'd be an awesome revenge killer

also weavile has low base power moves and doesnt have intimidate

unless they make elemental headbutts, i dont think giving a type change is enough
BUT extreme speed would be awesome

...you clearly missed WHY I did all that. Try throwing Flare Blitz on an Anger Point set and see how well that turns out. You should quickly discover that it doesn't turn out well at all. I, obviously unlike you, find some merit in its rather unique ability. So I gave it some things that would allow it to abuse it better. Part of me could honestly give a rat's *** about its ability to use Intimidate. It's not really something that I feel Tauros should be fighting over when there are two other users of the ability that capitalize on it 110% better than he does.

 

[mood4food77]

anger point is gimmicky and relies on quite a bit of luck

i did say giving it extreme speed would be welcomed but it's not needed as anger point sets run salac berry to increase speed

he needs something to deal with skarmory, bronzong, and rotom

it's not that anger point is bad, there isnt anything we can really do to make it better, there's now sure fire way to make the opponent crit hit which means tauros would lose a move or life

really, anger point works in OU due to great team support

so with that said, giving him flare blitz helps a lot but i say we give him mold breaker too
he's not going to compete with gyarados nor salamence for intimidate user as they both use DD but with mold breaker, he's something special

 

[Wave⁂]

ExtremeSpeed + 110 base speed = redundant

 

[mood4food77]

not really, but it's not necessary
he either needs DD (cant see it) or a different ability

 

[Circa]

anger point is gimmicky and relies on quite a bit of luck

i did say giving it extreme speed would be welcomed but it's not needed as anger point sets run salac berry to increase speed

he needs something to deal with skarmory, bronzong, and rotom

it's not that anger point is bad, there isnt anything we can really do to make it better, there's now sure fire way to make the opponent crit hit which means tauros would lose a move or life

really, anger point works in OU due to great team support

120 base Attack helps with that a little bit. It's still lacking in power for OU, but it's not quite as much of a sitting duck when it isn't getting the boost either.

And lol@Mold Breaker + Flare Blitz. The combination makes no ****ing sense, considering the only thing your EQ would need to hit but wouldn't at this point is Skarmory; and he walls most physical attackers to begin with and thus isn't something you really should be caring about when making a purely physical attacker. And smashing Skarmory's face in really isn't worth not being able to come in again.

ExtremeSpeed + 110 base speed = redundant

Scarfed anything faster (or just anything faster if you're not Sub+Salac'ing) than that and opposing priority say hi.

 

[mood4food77]

do combos have to make sense to work? but i did say earlier that a fire headbutt would be a better choice
mold breaker would be awesome
salamence is no free switch in as intimidate is useless now, levitaters get *****, etc

and tauros has the speed to pull it off

 

[Wave⁂]

Mold Breaker helps against Rotom-A... and that's it. Gengar is ***** by anything that it isn't immune to. Bronzong is basically never used. Azelf and Flygon are hit harder by Return.

Also, Mold Breaker != Hyper Cutter / Clear Body

 

[mood4food77]

let's look at this set:

Tauros @ Choice Band/Life Orb
Jolly / Mold Breaker
252 Atk/252 Spe/6 HP
Extreme Speed
Outrage
Earthquake
Flare Blitz

Flare Blitz is so that Skarmory can't come in for free, this makes an awesome late game sweeper and with wish support, it'll **** ****

 

[Circa]

intimidate doesnt go off because of mold breaker as it ignores the opponents ability (that's what im assuming)

Mold Breaker only ignores abilities that prevent an attack or effects from an attack. For instance, something with Battle Armor can be critted, you can explode on something with Damp, you can cause an accuracy drop to something with Keen Eye, you can put an Insomniac to sleep, you can Roar out a Soundproof/Suction Cup Poke. You ignore the Fire/Ice resistance from Thick Fat, you don't suffer from an opponent's evasion rise from Sand Veil.

Things like that.

Actually...a Mold Breaker abuser would be pretty cool for a Pokemon concept. If SmashCAP 3 is ever finished, I think I have my prompt for 4.

 

[mood4food77]

i gotcha

but still, with mold breaker, it could find it's niche a lot better

 

[Wave⁂]

Mold Breaker is too situational to be good.

Also, with Life Orb, you can sometimes 2HKO standard Skarmory, which is pretty good, but you take about 120 damage in recoil, which is more than 40%. Add 20% Life Orb recoil, and you're going to be hurt a lot.

 

[PowerBomb]

Why not give it Swords Dance? With a boosting move Tauros can be a real menace.

EDIT: Why not slightly increase his base HP? He probably doesn't need it, but hey, it'd help.

 

[mood4food77]

sword dance or bulk up would work with intimidate

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Wow, I believe this is the first Pokemon which has taken 4+ pages to work on...

Impressive.

 

[mood4food77]

anger point is so good, it just requires a good amount of luck to pull off and you have to build around him

which actually could work for a team build 2

 

[CRASHiC]

I don't want to make any random boost to pokemon. I want some quick pointed changes, and only want to change stats if we have no other choice.
Pokemon that are faster than Tauros, ubers and big threats bolded

5 | Electrode | 140 | 256 - 341 | 285 - 379 | 313 - 416
6 | Jolteon | 130 | 238 - 323 | 265 - 359 | 291 - 394
6 | Aerodactyl | 130 | 238 - 323 | 265 - 359 | 291 - 394
6 | Crobat | 130 | 238 - 323 | 265 - 359 | 291 - 394
10 | Swellow | 125 | 229 - 314 | 255 - 349 | 280 - 383
10 | Weavile | 125 | 229 - 314 | 255 - 349 | 280 - 383
13 | Dugtrio | 120 | 220 - 305 | 245 - 339 | 269 - 372
13 | Alakazam | 120 | 220 - 305 | 245 - 339 | 269 - 372
13 | Sceptile | 120 | 220 - 305 | 245 - 339 | 269 - 372
17 | Persian | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
17 | Starmie | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
17 | Sneasel | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
17 | Raikou | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
17 | Floatzel | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
17 | Ambipom | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
17 | Azelf | 115 | 211 - 296 | 235 - 329 | 258 - 361
24 | Purugly | 112 | 206 - 290 | 229 - 323 | 251 - 355

he also speed ties with Gengar.
So if we could grant him the ability to threaten a potential 2HKO to a large portion of pokemon, then we increase his usability.

If we give him FlareBlitz, Waterfall, Sword Dance, and Mold Breaker, a few things happen, a few very important things happen. His switch in rate becomes increasingly riskier. Rotom's can not switch into Earthquake, Heatran can not switch into Flareblitz, and Gengar now fears Earthquake. None of these are groundbreaking or instantly take away counters, but it removes many opportunities for free switch ins. This also balances out the speed tie between him and Gengar, where it is now a risk for both parties.

Sword Dance does the opposite. Now its a risk to not switch in against him, other wise you risk him setting up a huge sweeping potential. You don't want this pokemon running around with plus 2. So he forces you to make a decision or lose a pokemon should you chose wrong.

Honestly, I don't think anyone can say that a pokemon that frequently carries Earthquake, has 100 base attack, and 110 speed and gets walled by pokemon with Levitate could be considered too situational. Taurus is more than able to abuse Mold Breaker, the only thing he's missing is proper STAB.

 

[UltiMario]

What? Why Waterfall? What point would you have in using it? And how does it work with a Bull?

 

[CRASHiC]

What? Why Waterfall? What point would you have in using it? And how does it work with a Bull?

The idea behind giving him Waterfall is it provides the set with a weaker but more reliable alternative to Earthquake. While he doesn't have to give Skarmory a free switch in, or any other flying type, he can still hit around the same type of pokemon for Super Effective and still hit Steel as Neutral. It also aids in his ability as an abuser of Mold Breaker, as now a choice set isn't a free switchin to pokemon with water absorb. Take for instance the Bulky Tank set. Its incredibly possible to end up fighting Zapdoes or Skarmory, as they are two potential counters. Running Earthquake has the potential of losing you the match in such a case. I don't expect it to be a main option, but a side option, one that will aid in team building for Tauros users.

Also, we started talking about the Balloon and I'd like to return to that for a little bit. I've continued to think about him, and went back and looked at its move pool and found a few support wholes that could be filled in.
Drifblim- Ghost/Normal type with Levitate/Clear Body
Move Pool additions: Amnesia, Roost, Whirl Wind, Stealth Rocks, Wish, Sword Dance, Nasty Plot
Stealth Rocks kills Drifs chances at being a great Baton passer. Even more, the typing gives it the ability to be one a great pokemon walls. With immunities to Ghost, Ground, Normal, and Fighting and one weakness, put together with a massive HP, and Drif seems a potent wall despite her poor defense stats, given her access to moves like Amnesia. The new typing also grants it something incredibly frightening, STAB Explosion. Baton Pass teams need a new boost, and this might just be it. He also possesses the nasty potential of either making the opponent lose a pokemon regardless of what they do, or setting up a guaranteed sweep for another pokemon.

 

[mood4food77]

but he still has stone edge which hits both pokes harder than waterfall

 

[CRASHiC]

You're missing the point Mood4Food, its not a move he would pick to stop those specific pokemon, its one he would pick that could aptly hit the same pokemon as Earthquake though be it not as hard, while avoiding the chance of letting a flying pokemon get the free switch in. Yes, once they are in he can pick Stone Edge, but giving a pokemon a free switchin is a very big deal, especially when that pokemon is a physical wall coming to shut you down. I'm not saying this would replace Earthquake, but it would be a nice team building option.

He has Flare Blitz to take care of Steels now after all, so they aren't much of an issue anymore. The main use Earthquake now has is to take care of Rotom and Gengar.

 

[mood4food77]

i just don't see the point in using waterfall when he has other options he can use
let alone, i can't really see tauros using waterfall

but body slam and waterfall could make a nice combo for paraflinch, too bad there is nothing but serene grace to make it truly effective

 

[CRASHiC]

I've already explained in full why he would use Earthquake, but let me simplify and break it down.

Now with Flare Blitz, Earthquake isn't as appealing an option.
Water Fall can hit every pokemon that Earthquake would cover for slightly weaker, except Emploeon.
Running Earthquake puts you at danger to switchins from potential counters from Flying Physical walls that DO have the potential to stop you in your tracks.
If your team is already weak to such pokemon, and you wouldn't want to give them a free switchin, then running Waterfall would give the same type coverage while helping him against this bulky flying types, by not allowing them a free switchin.
A tauros set could look something like
Life Orb
Stone Edge
Flare Blitz
Earthquake/Waterfall
Sword Dance

Then if you are using the Sleep Talk Rest combo, then Earthquake is simply not an option, as it leaves you too vulnerable and up to luck.

Any pokemon that learns Surf should be able to learn Waterfall.

Water Fall and body slam is a gimmicky stupid combo.

 

[mood4food77]

i said that it would be cool but he has nothing that could make it work
there is no item that works like serene grace, which would make it viable (almost)

 

[CRASHiC]

Kings Rock increases critical hit ratio for Waterfall.

 

[mood4food77]

but what about body slam?
30% paralysis rate isn't reliable enough

 

[CRASHiC]

This should be moved to PokeLab.

Cresselia- Cloud 9, Will-o-wisp
Sandstorm and Rain Dance (in Ubers) are the only things holding Cresselia back, other than Pursuit. Both of these alleviate her problems.

Corsola-

Stat changes:
HP 155
Atk 95
Def 120
SpA 5
SpD 120
Spe 5

Movepool additions: Gyro Ball, Spikes, Trick Room, Baton Pass.
The idea here is rather obvious, create a tank with some utility that no other tank in the game has. With access to many stat boosting moves including both Amnesia and Barrier, Explosion, Sucker Punch, a host of support moves, Natural Cure, great STAB, and Recover Corsola offers stalls an incredibly interesting option in their team. Its not without its weaknesses either, which is most evident by its weakness to Earthquake and fighting moves. Also note its ability to Baton Pass Ingrain.

Noctowl- Dark/Flying
HP 100
Atk 50
Def 50
SpA 75
SpD 115
Spe 120

Abilities: Compound Eyes, Insomnia
Movepool additions: Trick, Knock Off, Amnesia, Nasty Plot, Will-o-wisp, U-turn, Encore, Dark Pulse, False Tears, Imprison, Kinesis, Memento, Flatter, Taunt, Signal Beam, Confuse Ray, Shadow ball

Here I've crafted Noctowl as a great Anti-led, and gave him a far better typing to suit his Special Defense nature. Immune to Psyhich and Ground. as well as Resistent to Ghost, Grass and Dark provides him with the basic ability to be a defensive pokemon. Compound eyes generally is reserved for bugs, but I believe that it does aesthetically fit an Owl. As an anti-lead in the metagame we are crafting, Insomnia is the better choice as Jumpluff running around with Spore, as well as our Hypno all make Insomnia an incredibly useful ability. As an ingame status spreader, Compound Eyes is the better and much needed choice for Hypnosys. To make up for his lack of defense, he has Amensia, Roost, and Feather Dance. There are still some large things holding him back such as TTar, but hopefully a more balanced Metagame would open him up more room to breath as TTar might not be so dominate.

Shuckle-Arena Trap.
Move changes: Gyro Ball, Trick Room
Say hello to the OU Wobbufet. With Arena trap, Shuckle no longer relies on Wrap to play the trap game. His move pool adds to his support and offense options, allowing this set to aid far more than stall.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'm sorry, but Corsola's stats don't fit it.

At all.

 

[UltiMario]

Or we can take 30 out of each defense for shuckle and put them in HP, then give it recover.

That would help :V

 

[Wave⁂]

Recover on Shuckle would be great, but then it'd have trouble with Toxic.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

All Pokemon running Recover have trouble with Toxic.

 

[CRASHiC]

I'm sorry, but Corsola's stats don't fit it.

At all.

I don't see how. Its coral, nothing can compare to the durability of the coral. It can survive toxins and physical abuse, all be it at different levels depending on the species. What other stats would fit Coral other than no speed, high HP and Defense?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

The defenses I see, but the HP stat is still too high.

In my opinion, of course.
I don't know how everyone else feels about it.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Even if we gave corsola great defenses/HP, that doesn't change its typing, which is kinda eh.

 

[Wave⁂]

I associate HP with size. Drifblim and Wailord come to mind.

All Pokemon running Recover have trouble with Toxic.

Skarmory.