NU To OU Project- First batch

[CRASHiC]

Well, I added the ability Compound Eyes which gives moves like Fire Blast and Hydro Pump much better accuracy, but I will admit that still doesn't fix its problems, but perhaps gives it a greater incentive for use. I'm not sure which would be more powerful, a Compound Eye Choice Scarf Fire Blast or a Magic Guard Life Orb Heat Wave, and don't have time to crunch the numbers. Still, interesting sets are possible though. Maybe a UU contendor, but in no way a OU contender currently.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Sorry I was late joining this, it seems really fun!

Just wanted to throw in my 2 cents about the previous sets.

Flareon:
Ability: Reckless
Moves: Iron Head, Flare Blitz, Stone EdgeU

Needs a last move, but looks good. Probably wouldn't be used much in OU, but I think it could potentially be viable in certain scenarios, especially if it gets a speed boost passed to it. Or maybe we could give it agility?

Sharpedo:
Ability: Technician, Guts
Moves: U-turn Pursuit
hmm there was more there, gonna need to go back and check

Sharpedo sucks lol. I see where you guys are going with this, but sharpedo has such horrifyingly bad defenses, I just don't see any hope in its future. Scizor just takes this set and does it ten times better. Hell, even scyther is better at this. Guts is a nice second option, but doesn't really fit on a set with u-turn and pursuit. Even if I wanted to run that set, I'd rather put it on a Swellow. Sorry, but I think this guy is hopeless.

Zangoose:
Ability: Adabtibility, Quick Feet
Moves: Exteme Speed

Great idea with extremespeed here. I always liked zangoose, and I think he'd have great potential once we develop the rest of the moveset.

Licky:
Ability: Scrappy, Thick Fat
Moves: none so far

I think he's going to need more than scrappy lol. I know we've already discussed this, but Snorlax>>>>>>licky+scrappy. From an offensive standpoint, kangaskhan and miltank are both superior scrappy options. Licky isn't COMPLETELY hopeless, but it would need a pretty **** good ability to have a chance.

Chatot:
Ability: Magic Guard, Compound Eyes
Moves: Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Thunder.

I'm sorry, but Chatot has no chance either. As Terywj mentioned, this would just get eaten by sweepers or sponged by blissey/snorlax. Magic guard doesn't really help that much, as chatot would primarily draw attacks. It would help against blissey, but that's about it. Plus blissey could just PP stall. Compound eyes is a good idea, but I'd rather just whip out a poygon-z and use the accurate versions of those attacks. I'd get a tiny bit more power with slightly better accuracy (only on thunder) and much better stats.

Arbok:
ABANDONED

HELL YES!

Open for scrutiny, critque, add ons, anything at all. Then we will make a poll and decide which of these pokemon are now viable in OU.

I'd vote everything down except flareon and zangoose. Lickilicky isn't hopeless, but it would need a much better ability.


-----------------------------------------------------------


Hey CRASHiC, may I submit possiblilities for the next batch? If so:

Aritcuno
Dunsparce
Marowak
Muk
Parasect

I think the 5 pokemon above are unique in some way and won't just become copies of another pokemon if they're "OUified".

 

[Metal~Mario]

Hey CRASHiC, may I submit possiblilities for the next batch? If so:

Aritcuno
Dunsparce
Marowak
Muk
Parasect

I think the 5 pokemon above are unique in some way and won't just become copies of another pokemon if they're "OUified".

Good ones.

Include Poliwrath and I'm happy.

 

[UltiMario]

Parasect is hopeless.

Nothing you do can ever change that.

 

[Circa]

Sharpedo sucks lol. I see where you guys are going with this, but sharpedo has such horrifyingly bad defenses, I just don't see any hope in its future. Scizor just takes this set and does it ten times better. Hell, even scyther is better at this. Guts is a nice second option, but doesn't really fit on a set with u-turn and pursuit. Even if I wanted to run that set, I'd rather put it on a Swellow. Sorry, but I think this guy is hopeless.

And this is where I refute. STAB Technician Aqua Jet is scarier in a lot more late-game situations than STAB Technician Bullet Punch is; even if it isn't coming off quite as high of an Attack stat. Where Scizor eats through Mence and other dragons, Sharpedo eats through things like Heatran (probably not a OHKO, but possibly enough to not let it switch in again) and Steel types that Scizor can't hit. It also carries a faster U-Turn than Scizor and STAB on Pursuit. It may not sit very high in OU due to its frailty, but it certainly has the potential to sit there. It's basically a little frailer and slower than Weavile, but has better neutral STAB coverage and no weakness to SR to make up for it.

I think he's going to need more than scrappy lol. I know we've already discussed this, but Snorlax>>>>>>licky+scrappy. From an offensive standpoint, kangaskhan and miltank are both superior scrappy options. Licky isn't COMPLETELY hopeless, but it would need a pretty **** good ability to have a chance.

STAB Scrappy Explosion from something with bulk to tank through hits and a respectable enough Atk stat to leave at least a dent to anything that switches in is AT LEAST good enough for BL. Guaranteed. Just throw a Choice Band on it, give it Focus Punch for Steel and Rock switch-in predictions and Explosion to use when those switch-ins are gone, and some other filler moves. You've just made Lickilicky instantly viable. It also has support options that Snorlax doesn't have, and Thick Fat, despite also being on Snorlax, gives it more opportunities to use those specific options and thus operate in a manner not like Snorlax.

Not saying I'm completely right, but I think you're missing some of the positive stuff with what you're saying.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I suggest...

Typhlosion, Muk, and Marowak for the second round.

-Terywj

 

[Wave⁂]

SubPunch Scrappy Lickilicky DOESN'T WANT FIVE MOVESLOTS. That's how good it'd be.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

SubPunch Scrappy Lickilicky DOESN'T WANT FIVE MOVESLOTS. That's how good it'd be.

That's the thing. Kangaskhan and Miltank to better.

-Terywj

 

[KrazyGlue]

And this is where I refute. STAB Technician Aqua Jet is scarier in a lot more late-game situations than STAB Technician Bullet Punch is; even if it isn't coming off quite as high of an Attack stat. Where Scizor eats through Mence and other dragons, Sharpedo eats through things like Heatran (probably not a OHKO, but possibly enough to not let it switch in again) and Steel types that Scizor can't hit. It also carries a faster U-Turn than Scizor and STAB on Pursuit. It may not sit very high in OU due to its frailty, but it certainly has the potential to sit there. It's basically a little frailer and slower than Weavile, but has better neutral STAB coverage and no weakness to SR to make up for it.

Ah, forgot about aqua jet. I'd still take scizor any day lol. Plus Weavile is so much better in a lot of ways, and it's barely in OU itself. Yeah Sharpedo only takes 12.5% from SR, but it's so **** fragile that it barely matters. STAB neutral coverage doesn't really matter either when you're running a set like the one you're describing. Plus water and dark still fail against some relatively prominent pokemon such as empoleon and breloom. Plus weavile has many tools that sharpedo doesn't, like fake out and SD.

STAB Scrappy Explosion from something with bulk to tank through hits and a respectable enough Atk stat to leave at least a dent to anything that switches in is AT LEAST good enough for BL. Guaranteed. Just throw a Choice Band on it, give it Focus Punch for Steel and Rock switch-in predictions and Explosion to use when those switch-ins are gone, and some other filler moves. You've just made Lickilicky instantly viable. It also has support options that Snorlax doesn't have, and Thick Fat, despite also being on Snorlax, gives it more opportunities to use those specific options and thus operate in a manner not like Snorlax.

Not saying I'm completely right, but I think you're missing some of the positive stuff with what you're saying.

If you're thinking of running explosion and focus punch, I'd rather run that set on metagross. Explosion barely hits stronger for lickilicky, and focus punch hits much harder for metagross. I will admit scrappy is a good asset for an exploder. But the other benefit to metagross is it can actually do other things well. If this is all Licky is good for, it will be easy to predict.

I also think there are better support options. While Lickilicky isn't bad, I would think Blissey or Cresselia would generally do the job better, unless I'm forgetting something...?

Anyway, now that I realize the explosion potential (how the **** does lickilicky learn that lol), Licky is borderline for me. I still would vote down sharpedo though.

 

[Metal~Mario]

If you're thinking of running explosion and focus punch, I'd rather run that set on metagross. Explosion barely hits stronger for lickilicky, and focus punch hits much harder for metagross. I will admit scrappy is a good asset for an exploder. But the other benefit to metagross is it can actually do other things well. If this is all Licky is good for, it will be easy to predict.

Lickilicky can learn Power Whip-which owns Swampert, something Metagross cannot do without a rare Grass Knot or Exploding.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Good ones.

Include Poliwrath and I'm happy.

Poliwrath is a good one also, nice pick.

Terywj also had a good pick with Typhlosion.

Parasect is hopeless.

Nothing you do can ever change that.

I think it just needs a way to either gain speed or reduce theirs. One good tool it has it running Dry Skin and switching into a water move, then sporing. It would also benefit from something that prevents switches.

Lickilicky can learn Power Whip-which owns Swampert, something Metagross cannot do without a rare Grass Knot or Exploding.

Couldn't the same be said for metgross being able to hammer arm blissey/snorlax, zen headbutt machamp, etc.?

 

[Circa]

Wait what? I'm straight-up lost. I said a CB set with Focus Punch, not a SubPunch set. .____. Basically you come in on something that's forced to switch out, Punch and don't care what the switch-in is, and then switch out again next turn. Blissey, for instance, would be a fine specimen to come in on as you can likely Punch and get away with either hitting the Blissey or hitting the switch-in. Or you could use Hammer Arm too. Works either way.

Lickilicky is actually bulkier than Kangaskhan and a little stronger than Miltank. And it gets SD and Explosion, plus Hammer Arm which the Speed drop won't matter for on it. If that doesn't make it a better Scrappy user, I don't know what does.

Oh hey, I didn't realize it until now but Lickilicky doesn't get Thunder Wave. Give it that and it should be good, seeing as its only true disadvantage is its low Speed. T-Wave, SD, Hammer Arm, Return/Body Slam. With Scrappy, nothing resists it. Just watch out for the Ground-types in OU (for the sake of Paralysis) and you should be pretty much set.

 

[CRASHiC]

Krazy glue those weren't sets, those were list of added moves.

As for Sharpedo, you are forgeting that its the only pokemon with a STAB AND Technician boosted Pursuit. That's just deadly. Scizor with

As for Licky, read this, and now imagine an explosion that you can't avoid and can only resist by steel types.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=504154
Basically, switch in and automatically kill at least one pokemon, and Licky has the bulk and move pool to do some before that.

Writer that is a wonderful suggestion. Now switching in to Licky is now the most daunting task in the game.

 

[UltiMario]

Parasect can learn Agility.

You don't see it in OU or anything do you?

 

[CRASHiC]

Guys, Parasect is useful for Ubers and Ubers only. Any pokemon used in ubers is something I want to avoid touching in fear of making a super over powered uber destroying machine.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Oh hey, I didn't realize it until now but Lickilicky doesn't get Thunder Wave. Give it that and it should be good, seeing as its only true disadvantage is its low Speed. T-Wave, SD, Hammer Arm, Return/Body Slam. With Scrappy, nothing resists it. Just watch out for the Ground-types in OU (for the sake of Paralysis) and you should be pretty much set.

Good find. I'm completely surprised Lickilicky can't learn Thunder Wave.

 

[Circa]

I am too, which is why I didn't even think of mentioning it before. XD It wasn't until I was looking through its movepool for what its support advantages were that I realized it never learned the one move that's almost a staple on Normal-types.

All this talk about Lickilicky is actually making me want to use one.

 

[KrazyGlue]

Wait what? I'm straight-up lost. I said a CB set with Focus Punch, not a SubPunch set. .____. Basically you come in on something that's forced to switch out, Punch and don't care what the switch-in is, and then switch out again next turn. Blissey, for instance, would be a fine specimen to come in on as you can likely Punch and get away with either hitting the Blissey or hitting the switch-in. Or you could use Hammer Arm too. Works either way.

Great! Because I didn't mention sub-punching either!

Lickilicky is actually bulkier than Kangaskhan and a little stronger than Miltank. And it gets SD and Explosion, plus Hammer Arm which the Speed drop won't matter for on it. If that doesn't make it a better Scrappy user, I don't know what does.

I said from an offensive standpoint. Khan and Tank are both significantly faster. Khan hits a lot harder too. Tank is just as bulky and has 100 base speed with only 5 less in attack base stat than Licky.

As for Sharpedo, you are forgeting that its the only pokemon with a STAB AND Technician boosted Pursuit. That's just deadly. Scizor with

Yeah, it's deadly if anyone switches out instead of just beating the **** out of it. Even the pursuit doesn't make up for sharpedo being horrifyingly bad compared to weavile (and even weavile can barely stay in OU).

As for Licky, read this, and now imagine an explosion that you can't avoid and can only resist by steel types.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=504154
Basically, switch in and automatically kill at least one pokemon, and Licky has the bulk and move pool to do some before that.

Protect. Focus Sash. Steelix. Not unstoppable.

Parasect can learn Agility.

You don't see it in OU or anything do you?

I dunno. I figured it would be the only one of those 5 that would be close to not having a chance of saving it.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Couldn't the same be said for metgross being able to hammer arm blissey/snorlax, zen headbutt machamp, etc.?

Funny you mention two more moves that Lickilicky can learn....

 

[KrazyGlue]

Funny you mention two more moves that Lickilicky can learn....

Ah, forgot. Although machamp would just beat the **** out of licky before it could move lol.

 

[Metal~Mario]

Ah, forgot. Although machamp would just beat the **** out of licky before it could move lol.

Yes. Watch out for a Counter set, though.

 

[Circa]

Great! Because I didn't mention sub-punching either!

Someone else did. I started my post before you even posted, and didn't bother to quote because I didn't think anyone else would post before me. Obviously I was wrong.

I said from an offensive standpoint. Khan and Tank are both significantly faster. Khan hits a lot harder too. Tank is just as bulky and has 100 base speed with only 5 less in attack base stat than Licky.

SD: something Khan and Tank don't have that Lickilicky does. And like I said before, give it T-Wave (which it should have had anyway). I just solved its lower Attack AND its Speed issues; and have made it quite the Scrappy threat.

Yeah, it's deadly if anyone switches out instead of just beating the **** out of it. Even the pursuit doesn't make up for sharpedo being horrifyingly bad compared to weavile (and even weavile can barely stay in OU).

Uhhh...Weavile doesn't have Technician. Weavile also has an SR weakness. Weavile is still so frail that it can't really survive a hit (apart from specific Special hits). The difference really doesn't matter. And yes, some people will switch out. Why? Because they know they're going to die to a STAB Technician'd Aqua Jet and would rather use the Pokemon for fodder later. Or even better, they might have a Vaporeon sitting around that would enjoy the 25% recovery.

Protect. Focus Sash. Steelix. Not unstoppable.

So are you going to give Protect to everything on your team? You're wasting moveslots and will lose more battles than you win if you do so. Sash is only viable on leads because SR ruins them. And you're probably not the brightest if you're using Steelix in OU. Thing is, you switch in Lickilicky for Exploding only when you know the opponent is going to be losing something. For instance, you wouldn't switch in Lickilicky to Explode on a WishBliss because it could just protect.

Ah, forgot. Although machamp would just beat the **** out of licky before it could move lol.

Put 56-60 EVs into Lickilicky's Speed and it's going to outspeed every Machamp that isn't a gimmick Choice Scarf variant; including those that are extremely paranoid and run 12-16 EVs to outspeed other Machamps. Yes Machamp can just keep pumping EVs into Speed to guarantee outspeeding Lickilicky, but then it ruins the bulk that Machamp needs to function as well as it does, and it ultimately becomes kinda useless.

 

[Wave⁂]

1. Belly Drum
2. Baton Pass to Lickilicky
3. ???
4. Explode
5. Profit!

 

[UltiMario]

Blissey used protect!

 

[Circa]

Lickilicky used Feint! Lololololol

Too bad it can't do that.

EDIT: Lickilicky actually gets Belly Drum. No need to pass. <_____<

 

[KrazyGlue]

SD: something Khan and Tank don't have that Lickilicky does. And like I said before, give it T-Wave (which it should have had anyway). I just solved its lower Attack AND its Speed issues; and have made it quite the Scrappy threat.

So it has SD, T-wave, 2 attacks? Sounds like something a ground type would eat up. Unless you're running power whip, in which case licky will have awful type coverage.

Plus miltank also has t-wave, though because of its 100 base stat speed it doesn't need to waste a moveslot on it.

I'd also personally always take DDing Gyarados over this if I'm looking for offence.

Uhhh...Weavile doesn't have Technician. Weavile also has an SR weakness.

Already acknowledged this.

Weavile is still so frail that it can't really survive a hit (apart from specific Special hits). The difference really doesn't matter.

It does, actually. Weavile actually does survive some things sharpedo won't (assuming no SR, otherwise they both die to anything).

And yes, some people will switch out. Why? Because they know they're going to die to a STAB Technician'd Aqua Jet and would rather use the Pokemon for fodder later. Or even better, they might have a Vaporeon sitting around that would enjoy the 25% recovery.

STAB technician aqua jet is only 90 power. Won't kill anything unless it's practically within SR range anyway or if you're running CB. Weavile doesn't even need priority most of the time since it's actually fast, unlike sharpedo. Only 5 pokemon that are allowed in OU outspeed Weavile. So it could use a stronger STAB move like night slash or ice punch.

Back to Scizor, Bullet Punch is every bit as strong as aqua jet (actually stronger due to scizor's attack) and getting 30 extra power on pursuit isn't enough to compensate for the fact that scizor is bulkier and has more attack. Though sharpedo's u-turn comes out faster, scizor's hits a lot harder as well.

So are you going to give Protect to everything on your team? You're wasting moveslots and will lose more battles than you win if you do so. Sash is only viable on leads because SR ruins them. And you're probably not the brightest if you're using Steelix in OU. Thing is, you switch in Lickilicky for Exploding only when you know the opponent is going to be losing something. For instance, you wouldn't switch in Lickilicky to Explode on a WishBliss because it could just protect.

Actually I don't use steelix in OU but thanks for the insult (and btw if you want more examples then look at scizor, heatran, metagross, TTar, magnezone, skarmory, jirachi, bronzong, and forretress, all of which are in OU). Anyway, all I was trying to show you guys is that explosion isn't a guaranteed kill like you seemed to believe.

I still find this set to be significantly less useful than a metagross one, the only negative factor being ghost types. Although that's a pretty significant factor, which is why I said licky is borderline for me.

Put 56-60 EVs into Lickilicky's Speed and it's going to outspeed every Machamp that isn't a gimmick Choice Scarf variant; including those that are extremely paranoid and run 12-16 EVs to outspeed other Machamps. Yes Machamp can just keep pumping EVs into Speed to guarantee outspeeding Lickilicky, but then it ruins the bulk that Machamp needs to function as well as it does, and it ultimately becomes kinda useless.

Or you could just use metagross and not have to waste EVs or worry about what EVs machamp has.

 

[Circa]

So it has SD, T-wave, 2 attacks? Sounds like something a ground type would eat up. Unless you're running power whip, in which case licky will have awful type coverage.

Most teams don't run more than one Ground-type. Lickilicky will bait it if they expect it to run T-Wave/SD/Hammer Arm/Return. Take it out with something else, and then you can set up. This is pretty much the way every big sweeper works. You take out the one (or possibly two) things on the opposing things from the opposing team that can take it out, and then you sweep. It's also, to an extent, the basic theory behind hyper offense.

Plus miltank also has t-wave, though because of its 100 base stat speed it doesn't need to waste a moveslot on it.

Miltank's movepool actually does a good job of contradicting its stats. Its only way to boost its Attack is to lower its Speed, which means it eliminates a major selling point. Thus, T-Wave. Problem is, it's then stuck in the same boat as Lickilicky. So what's the difference? Lickilicky can boost its Attack stat much faster, and thus be an offensive threat much quicker as well. Lickilicky also has a much deeper and more useful movepool, so even if you T-Wave at first, the opponent won't know what you're going to do next until you actually do it. This puts the opponent in a bad position just from seeing Lickilicky.

I'd also personally always take DDing Gyarados over this if I'm looking for offence.

I'd use one depending on how my team worked. I can see a lot of situations where using Lickilicky over DD Gyara would be better.

STAB technician aqua jet is only 90 power. Won't kill anything unless it's practically within SR range anyway or if you're running CB. Weavile doesn't even need priority most of the time since it's actually fast, unlike sharpedo. Only 5 pokemon that are allowed in OU outspeed Weavile. So it could use a stronger STAB move like night slash or ice punch.

Back to Scizor, Bullet Punch is every bit as strong as aqua jet (actually stronger due to scizor's attack) and getting 30 extra power on pursuit isn't enough to compensate for the fact that scizor is bulkier and has more attack. Though sharpedo's u-turn comes out faster, scizor's hits a lot harder as well.

Running CB on Sharpedo is what the plan originally was I believe. Either that or LO. It's only going to be seen as a revenge killer/late-game sweeper anyway, and I was pretty sure this was all implied. Thus I didn't mention it. But basically, all of them have different targets with their priority move. 'Nuff said. Weavile may outspeed a lot of things naturally, but the metagame also has a lot of scarfers running around. Makes it a little harder to use a more powerful move.

Actually I don't use steelix in OU but thanks for the insult (and btw if you want more examples then look at scizor, heatran, metagross, TTar, magnezone, skarmory, jirachi, bronzong, and forretress, all of which are in OU). Anyway, all I was trying to show you guys is that explosion isn't a guaranteed kill like you seemed to believe.

It wasn't an insult, it was a fact. Your point was that something that resists it and is extremely bulky can live through it. This is true and I already knew that quite well. Trust me, I've done a lot of theorymoning on what different levels of Explosion can do to different Pokemon. Aggron is actually the best thing to tank an Explosion btw. Even with +6 it would take Lickilicky an LO or Choice Band to OHKO Aggron. But that's beside the point. Thing is, in OU a lot of the things that resist and can live through Explosion are also meant to live long enough to do something. If they're eating a STAB Explosion though, they're probably not going to be living for much longer. This is why STAB Explosion is so scary, and why it's being stressed so much.

I still find this set to be significantly less useful than a metagross one, the only negative factor being ghost types. Although that's a pretty significant factor, which is why I said licky is borderline for me. Or you could just use metagross and not have to waste EVs or worry about what EVs machamp has.

And once again I'll mention SD. Metagross doesn't get that either. And Lickilicky's movepool is so freaking deep that you could throw one Pokemon at me and say it does the same thing as Lickilicky, and I could give you a completely new moveset for you to try and refute. Lickilicky's unpredictability is enough of a selling point to make it viable, despite the limitations its Speed can provide.

 

[Wave⁂]

Blissey used protect!

Lickilicky says "MUK YOU" and continues to ??? your ***.

 

[Circa]

I thought of something else that could help Sharpedo: Sucker Punch. Mix that with Pursuit and Aqua Jet on a CB set (and of course some other filler move) and you essentially left your opponent with a prediction nightmare. It also bypasses the "Speed" issue it would have in OU for dealing with things that it can't properly Pursuit without worrying about taking a hit (like Starmie for instance).

It makes a high risk-high reward SD set viable as well. If your opponent goes to switch out expecting CB, you can SD and destroy with dual STAB priority. The only thing that resists the combination in OU is Empoleon (I believe), and that can be taken down with EQ.

So yeah. Thoughts? If you're wondering how Sucker Punch even works on something that doesn't have arms, I point at Honchkrow, Absol, Delcatty, Victreebel, etc. to prove that they don't need it. I'm assuming they just need to look like they'd pull a Sucker Punch, and Sharpedo certainly looks like it'd do so.

 

[Oracle]

SD, sucker punch, and pursuit all sound pretty good, but it sounds just like a water type scizor.

 

[flyinfilipino]

So yeah. Thoughts? If you're wondering how Sucker Punch even works on something that doesn't have arms, I point at Honchkrow, Absol, Delcatty, Victreebel, etc. to prove that they don't need it. I'm assuming they just need to look like they'd pull a Sucker Punch, and Sharpedo certainly looks like it'd do so.

Sucker Punch is actually just Surprise Attack in Japan. So yeah, Sharpedo could pull that off.

 

[Pink Reaper]

SD, sucker punch, and pursuit all sound pretty good, but it sounds just like a water type scizor.

No, it's actually just Absol without the ability to use Fire Blast.

 

[Oracle]

I was talking more about the aqua jet technician discussion in addition to the sucker punch. With both he'd be pretty dangerous.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Not really. He'd still straight up lose to stupid stuff like Scizor/Metagross/Jirachi/anything that could take a hit and tap him back lightly since he's so ****ing weak lol. Gliscor, Suicune, Vaporeon, Hippowdon, Skarmory, there's quite alot in OU that can beat it REALLY easily. The thing that makes Scizor dangerous is Uturn tbh. Come in, deal massive damage to whatever switches in/stays in and go to a counter, rinse, repeat until you use priority to win.

 

[Oracle]

Maybe just as a revenge killer. Maybe.
What else could we put?

 

[KrazyGlue]

Most teams don't run more than one Ground-type. Lickilicky will bait it if they expect it to run T-Wave/SD/Hammer Arm/Return. Take it out with something else, and then you can set up. This is pretty much the way every big sweeper works. You take out the one (or possibly two) things on the opposing things from the opposing team that can take it out, and then you sweep. It's also, to an extent, the basic theory behind hyper offense.

Licky will never sweep. It could certainly take out a pokemon, but never sweep. Way too slow. Sweepers need speed, unless each of their defenses are maxed out and even then they'd better hope the opponent doesn't have super effective hits coming.

Miltank's movepool actually does a good job of contradicting its stats. Its only way to boost its Attack is to lower its Speed, which means it eliminates a major selling point. Thus, T-Wave. Problem is, it's then stuck in the same boat as Lickilicky. So what's the difference? Lickilicky can boost its Attack stat much faster, and thus be an offensive threat much quicker as well. Lickilicky also has a much deeper and more useful movepool, so even if you T-Wave at first, the opponent won't know what you're going to do next until you actually do it. This puts the opponent in a bad position just from seeing Lickilicky.

There are plenty of pokemon with SD that start with a higher attack and speed than lickilicky. The fact that licky has to t-wave most pokemon it faces (and take a hit in the process) is pathetic as a sweeper. I'd much rather just switch in something like infernape, SD, and start sweeping. I'd probably do more damage than lickilicky would. If you're trying to use it as a sweeper, then you're using it for the wrong reasons. It would be better as a suicide bomber or a supporter. Perhaps a tank. But not a sweeper.

I'd use one depending on how my team worked. I can see a lot of situations where using Lickilicky over DD Gyara would be better.

Such as...?

Running CB on Sharpedo is what the plan originally was I believe. Either that or LO. It's only going to be seen as a revenge killer/late-game sweeper anyway, and I was pretty sure this was all implied. Thus I didn't mention it. But basically, all of them have different targets with their priority move. 'Nuff said. Weavile may outspeed a lot of things naturally, but the metagame also has a lot of scarfers running around. Makes it a little harder to use a more powerful move.

Makes sense, CB or LO are the only items I would ever use on this guy. Only a few scarfers, heatran most notably.

As a revenge killer, sharpedo has little use when compared with the likes of CB scizor, scarftran, various latias sets, etc. Late game sweeps would occur only if all of your opponent's pokemon are slow and below 50% health, and again it is outperformed by other (faster or more durable) pokemon.

It wasn't an insult, it was a fact.

I don't think you meant this in the way I'm thinking of...

I took offense when you said I "wasn't the brightest".

Your point was that something that resists it and is extremely bulky can live through it. This is true and I already knew that quite well. Trust me, I've done a lot of theorymoning on what different levels of Explosion can do to different Pokemon. Aggron is actually the best thing to tank an Explosion btw. Even with +6 it would take Lickilicky an LO or Choice Band to OHKO Aggron. But that's beside the point. Thing is, in OU a lot of the things that resist and can live through Explosion are also meant to live long enough to do something. If they're eating a STAB Explosion though, they're probably not going to be living for much longer. This is why STAB Explosion is so scary, and why it's being stressed so much.

And once again I'll mention SD. Metagross doesn't get that either. And Lickilicky's movepool is so freaking deep that you could throw one Pokemon at me and say it does the same thing as Lickilicky, and I could give you a completely new moveset for you to try and refute. Lickilicky's unpredictability is enough of a selling point to make it viable, despite the limitations its Speed can provide.

Like I said, explosion is barely stronger for lickilicky than for metagross. Only advantage is scrappy. Strange though, I thought metagross could learn swords dance.

Look up any damage calcs though and you'll see how small the difference is.

Lickilicky's move pool is good, but I don't understand why you seem to think it's THE BEST IN THE GAME. Snorlax has a deeper moveset imo. So does TTar. Yes, they both lack SD but other than that they've got it all. Plus they still do have stats boosts (curse for snorlax, DD for TTar).

Sure, keep giving me movesets, I'll just keep finding OU pokemon that do it better. The one thing Licky could be good for is running in and blowing itself up (and I do recognize that potential). Every other role you can imagine is done better by another pokemon.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Ok, you people seriously don't seem to understand what's wrong with this project so let me explain everything here.

Non-OU(I refuse to say NU just cus of how good these pokemon legitimately are) are not in the OU tier for a reason.

No amount of movepool/ability changing are going to make these pokemon anything other than barely usable. To be OU means it's a staple pokemon, something that can do alot of things and constantly be a threat. So we turn Sharpedo into a revenge killer? So what, so many pokemon do it so much better and can ALSO provide other rolls. You want to make Sharpedo a viable pokemon? 110/120/88/95/90/95 stats AND Swords Dance. There, now you can use it to do ****. Suddenly it can do Mixed/Choice/Dedicated Special/Dedicated Physical/Sub SD lots of roles, cus it's no longer a really crappy version of other pokemon(Empoleon > Sharpedo in every way shape and form)

Lickilicky has SD explosion, and to be honest, that's pretty ****ing amazing. It WILL OHKO Skarmory, Hippo, lots of ****. But it's mostly a one trick pony, as are all of these NU pokes. As long as the opponent has a bulky Ghost type pokemon, say one that looks sort of like an oven and can WoW as it pleases, Lickilicky will never be a real threat. You could give it Curse and change it's stats around but at that point you're just giving Snorlax Explosion.

Flareon? Give it Sacred Fire and Flash Fire, and even then it's still pretty much *** without base 110 Speed.

If you want to make a pokemon OU, look at Empoleon and take note. It went from extremely BL(cusp of UU before the merge) to straight OU because it has the raw stats and movepool to do so many things and people realized that. Support, Lead, Sub Petaya, SD-Aqua Jet, all of them work extremely well. You give Flareon Flare Blitz and Reckless and all you've done is made Choice Scarf Flareon somewhat viable in UU tiers(and even then it loses instantly to Regirock) They're NU for a reason. If you want something that's in NU to become OU you have to look at what's there and see what actually DESERVES to be in OU, cus no amount of changing is going to make Butterfree die any less horribly when it plays with the big boys.


/angry rant

 

[CT Chia]

The main problem I see with things is that you can't change the pokemon too much, or its not like your making them OU but instead making whole new pokemon.

But even still, it's impossible to have every Pokemon be OU because then pokemon will naturally outclass others and therefor some become used less. Kind of like how PR said where Sharpedo as a revenge killer is better, but he's outclassed by other revenge killers. Ok, so if you make him better though than them, then the old revenge killers might not be OU anymore.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

So theoretically guys, we're just attempting to make these NU Pokemon better. Not necessarily OU material, but that's what we're aiming for.

-Terywj

 

[CRASHiC]

@Pink Reaper, can a bulky ghost pokemon resist a Scrappy SD? I don't think so.

But at any rate, its like Spire said, we are AIMING for OU, clearly not every pokemon can make it. I was too lenient on picking pokemon this time, but I'll be more strict next. No Arbok.