[NSW] Western Sydney Dramacraft: The home of drama!

[Karnu]

I'm confused.

I've met Ted and he was cool with me, at least to my face anyway.

I haven't done anything since then except argue that Pirate Ship should be legal. That's the only other interaction I've had with him apart from tonight.

Nova's post was after I med Ted, but before the PS discussion, so it had been ages since I had had any interaction wth Ted, so I don't understand where this is coming from....

Well, you must of done something for him to post that, but that's something for you to figure out.

None of my business.

 

[Dre89]

Toki and I were joking around, and he posted saying that I was dumb and obnoxious for threatening Toki.

I thought it was pretty clear Toki and I were joking, so when Ted posted that I wasn't sure if he was joking or not, because he sounded serious.

 

[Karnu]

What lol.

Don't be running my mouth for me homeboy. Otherwise you and I may have to go for a little dance.

Ted- Explaining why I'm wrong would be more helpful than condescending me.

Shaya- I think Picto should be illegal too, in fact I think all hazard stages should be illegal, but I think if you allow hazards then banning PS is inconsistent.

EA-I'll take your points on board, but when you legalize hazardous stages I think it becomes a grey area as to what crosses the line. You may possibly be right but I think it's more arbitrary than you seem to be implying.

I'm pretty sure teds post to you was because of this btw, not because of what you said to toki.

 

[Dre89]

Seriously Dre, how can someone be so obnoxious but so dumb at the same time? It's mind blowing.

Threatening to fight one of the most beloved members of the Australian Smash community?

Truly incredible.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about Toki in the second line, because Toki and I were joking about fighting each other.

Anyway this is getting ridiculous. It's making us look stupid.

 

[escro]

Anyway this is getting ridiculous. It's making us look stupid.

This is the smartest thing you've said so far.

 

[Dre89]

This is the smartest thing you've said so far.[/QUOTE

It's not my fault Ryukario came in and started saying all this random stuff lol. I'm not supposed to defend myself when someone else has misunderstood the situation? That's all I did.

EA- After some inquiry in the Stage Discussion thread, I'm pretty convinced the PS hazards are not uncompetitive.

The bombs have a sweetspot and sourspot hitbox. Sweet does 55% and KOs everyone around 50%, and the sourspot doesn't KO until very high percents, like probably past 150.

The sweetspot appears to be simply be the actual bomb itself. I was able to short hop with Tink to avoid the sweetspot. Whilst you don't technically need to be grounded, you still need to be pretty close to get sweetspotted. It'd be very unlikely that you get sweetspotted unfairly (eg. getting hit into it) because the hitbox isn't very big, is low, and is out for a very small window.

The sourspot is what you're more likely to get hit by unfairly (it's basically the explosion after the collision). It threatens survivabilty about as much as other legal hazards, in some cases even less, so it doesn't warrant a ban.

The bombs only explode on surfaces, so they will never target an airborne opponent. Also, in every bomb phase I endured, of the 4-5 bombs that were fired, only one would directly target a character. In fact, many bombs don't even target the main stage. The top platform is also immune to bomb attacks.

The hazards aren't uncompetitive because the only thing that threatens survivability drastically moreso than other legal hazards is incredibly unlikely to hit someone in an unfair way.

I'm willing to consider your response, but don't play the inexperience card, because plenty of experienced smashers think this stage should be legal too.

 

[cheese619]

This is the smartest thing you've said so far.[/QUOTE

It's not my fault Ryukario came in and started saying all this random stuff lol. I'm not supposed to defend myself when someone else has misunderstood the situation? That's all I did.

EA- After some inquiry in the Stage Discussion thread, I'm pretty convinced the PS hazards are uncompetitive.

The bombs have a sweetspot and sourspot hitbox. Sweet does 55% and KOs everyone around 50%, and the sourspot doesn't KO until very high percents, like probably past 150.

The sweetspot appears to be simply be the actual bomb itself. I was able to short hop with Tink to avoid the sweetspot. Whilst you don't technically need to be grounded, you still need to be pretty close to get sweetspotted. It'd be very unlikely that you get sweetspotted unfairly (eg. getting hit into it) because the hitbox isn't very big, is low, and is out for a very small window.

The sourspot is what you're more likely to get hit by unfairly (it's basically the explosion after the collision). It threatens survivabilty about as much as other legal hazards, in some cases even less, so it doesn't warrant a ban.

The bombs only explode on surfaces, so they will never target an airborne opponent. Also, in every bomb phase I endured, of the 4-5 bombs that were fired, only one would directly target a character. In fact, many bombs don't even target the main stage. The top platform is also immune to bomb attacks.

The hazards aren't uncompetitive because the only thing that threatens survivability drastically moreso than other legal hazards is incredibly likely to hit someone in an unfair way.

I'm willing to consider your response, but don't play the inexperience card, because plenty of experienced smashers think this stage should be legal too.

You're contradicting yourself, you say the hazards are uncompetitive at the start and end with "the hazards aren't uncompetitive". :S

 

[Dre89]

Woops. I fixed it up. Should be clear I'm arguing it's a competitive stage now. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Shaya]

You guys should probably just shut up.... lol.

 

[EverAlert]

Cool story bro.

I liked the part where I said it's not even about abusing the stage and you're desperately clinging to the notion of "unfairly being hit into" the hazard. I also liked the part where you implied the Stage Discussion forum wasn't full of ******* (Grim, Ghostbone, and don't even get Foxy started on Twinkie; let's just say there's a reason Unity-type rulesets are made only by people who are good at the game). Also, I've rarely known people to get hit by the sourspot of the bombs, it actually is pretty much always the sweetspot.

But let's just say that abusing the stage does have anything to do with my argument, and let's say that I can't assume SD people are stupid, and let's also say that you actually are right in saying people are only going to be hit by the sourspot. That thing still does 35%. In exactly what way does that not have a huge impact on a stock? This is what I mean by poor valuation skills and why I brought up inexperience. Also, even if it actually is rare to be hit by the sweetspot, I'm still not sure how you can brush off 55% damage and guaranteed death to any character at like 50% as not a big deal.

Also re: experience hurfdurf, the fact of the matter is you have no competitive experience on the stage and thus your arguments are purely imagination-based theorycrafting. Even if you have "experienced" friends advising you, your interpretation of their advice is still that of imagined theorycrafting.

Btw, I did skim that discussion, and it actually didn't sound like they were supportive of the stage anyway, in fact I'm pretty sure one person expressed how broken the bomb was. So much for your experienced friends helping you out or whatever.

Tbh I can't actually believe this argument is still going on. Use logic.

 

[Dre89]

Whoa man there's no need to be so rude about it.

I remember Toby thinking the hazards were easy to avoid (he thought it should be banned for rudder camping). You think he's a ****** as well?

How is it you're more likely to get sweetspotted when the sourspot has a much bigger hitbox? Of all the 4-5 bombs, only one is intending to sweetspot (and that might not even be you, it might be aimed at the other character). So how is it more likely that good players wll get sweetspotted in that scenaro?



In terms of how I 'brush it off', I brush it off it a smilar way to how I brush off the ghostplatform on YI or the moving platform on SV saving stocks. Or similar to the hazards on Halberd which threaten survivability moreso than sourspotted bombs, smilar to getting stage screwed on Frigate, getting KOd by the klaptrap on Jungle Japes, or similar to getting KOd on SV because I got put in hitlag by the balloon on SV or the things on YI, and getting KOd or saved by the acid on Brinstar.

Most of these are likely to happen just as much, if not more than getting hit by a bomb. It's not as if there aren't things that threaten survivability lower-than-normal percents on legal stages.

You haven't actually explained how this stage is more abuseable than other hazardous stages to the point where it's uncompetitive. I'd like to hear your reasoning there. Unless you can explain how you can make someone get sweetspotted by a bomb I don't think you don't really have a case.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Pictochat is an awful stage. I think the fire transformation is the worst; it limits landing from being juggled so badly.

 

[Shaya]

The fire transformation applies 1% per tick.

It's not **** at all. Take the hit and SDI through it like a boss.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Still makes landing predictable though.

Also the wind transformation. Hate that one too.

 

[toki]

LOOOOOOOLOLOLLLLOLOLOLOL

WTF @ Bacon (Ryukario)

Ahem.
Anyway, to clear things up, wuvs to Dre, no dramas <3 I actually feel sorry for him that bacon randomly appearing and makes everything ******** olololol

DK SSB64 airdodge

Anyway....
Me and Cal are visiting Sydney around on the 20th! Get hyped! Hope I get to meet you guys and have lots of friendlies!

 

[Dre89]

Thanks Toki. My Japanese homie be representin'.

BC is my wifi homie too but I don't know why he be all up in ma grillz last night.

Toki hopefully I can meet up with you when you're in ma hood. We should make a dancing gif like that one where you're wearing that Pika hat lol.

Don't know why I'm stylin' in ghetto tongue so much at the moment. I think I need to look in the mirror to remind myself I'm white.

 

[WindMajor]

I'm just stopping by to say that I love all of you even though I was just insulted by a person I don't even know.

<33

 

[Karnu]

Look it was a misunderstanding standing >.>

I thought dre was been threaten, I was just trying to stop more hate as there is already enough in this scene.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Twinkie, you name searching or something?

 

[WindMajor]

Al ways.

 

[toki]

Bacon, stop posting, you will cause Mt. Fuji to explode.

 

[EverAlert]

So it turns out I was wrong about Foxy disliking Twinkie (just the impression I got from meets, I must have associated that with something else he was complaining about somehow lol). I personally don't have anything against him, just figured I'd add that in for DRAMATIC EFFECT (cause this thread is for drama, y'know, and I thought Foxy would appreciate it, but he didn't). My bad, I take it back, sorry dude.



Dre I will get back to you, don't feel like writing up a detailed response right when I wake up, and I need time to think about how one can possibly begin to compare ps bombs to sv platform. Seriously?

 

[Shaya]

Twinkie sucks.
Get that gay *** toon link **** out of here.

If you use Toon Link you're officially my enemy.


There's somethign seriously wrong with a character who can camp directly above Marth's head for 7 and a half minutes.

 

[Dre89]

Dre I will get back to you, don't feel like writing up a detailed response right when I wake up, and I need time to think about how one can possibly begin to compare ps bombs to sv platform. Seriously?

I was comparing them in terms of how likely they would decide a stock, not their power.

You could have a stage whose only hazard is a lazer that ohkos anyone who gets by it, but to get hit by it you have to stand still for 5 seconds. Obviously that stage would be legal because despite the power of the hazard no one is going to get hit by it unfairly.

That's my point. Yes the bombs are powerful but the chance of getting sweetspotted by one unfairly is so low that PS should be legal if you're going to legalise other hazardous stages.

I'll admit that the SV example isn't the strongest examples but my other example were legitimate so my pont still stands.

Shaya- Doesn't Marth have an advantage on Tink?

 

[Leisha]

Don't forget guys, this is the last night to pre book your tickets for the SMASH convention coming up soon.

It saves you money's too!

 

[cheese619]

Ever since Luke got banned this thread has turned into the sh!*est piece of s***. It disgusts me with all of the random people who have no affiliation with the NSW scene coming in and giving their two cents on every little thing.

 

[Leisha]

^^^^

Yep. It's getting a bit silly.

 

[...Ellipsis...]

This thread

 

[Luco]

The point of the set isn't to see if I'll wreck you, the point would be to show you what it's like to fight the stage while someone who isn't a ****** is trying to hit you. Also, many people think they play seriously regardless of money, but actually putting money on the line guarantees it basically.

Pictochat isn't "active" in the same way pirate ship is. Pirate ship may only have 4 or 5 different things it throws at you, but they are frequent, random, cover a large portion of the stage (with one exception), and every single one will probably kill you if it connects almost regardless of your %, or at the very least put you in a terrible situation that you will very rarely come back from. Pictochat on the other hand is very predictable, transformations don't repeat until it cycles through all 20-something odd forms (the number of forms outlasts the timer), each form always lasts the same amount of time, and very few forms actually try to damage you, almost all of them are simply layout changes, and even the worst one that damages you has set knockback and ambiguous DI so you're basically never at risk of dying or being put in -too- bad of a position. In other words, it's manageable, and its one actually-random aspect is trackable. As for Halberd, it's much less active in general, and although it can kill you, all its hazards are so painfully projected that it's almost not worth mentioning.

It's not even a matter of the stage being more abusable, it's a matter of playing safely and waiting for the stage to kill the other guy for you. You can't do that on Pictochat or Halberd.

Also referencing inexperience is important because, as I said, "stage awkwardness" isn't really about your personal comfort/familiarity, and I don't think there's a way to explain it that doesn't involve you playing a lot for it to click. As a side perk, actually having experience helps convince people you have a clue.



Although I can only speak for myself, "a new way of having fun" is probably the best way to describe it. For me personally I always intended to play Brawl competitively since before it came out, but I used to play Smash 64 as a kid all the time (obviously senseless buttonmashing) and memories of that inspired me to look for something deeper with smash. So I guess it's a bit of everything. I think you'll find most competitive players are willing to mess around with random stages and items from time to time, though.

Uhhh, EA, are you sure you're not confusing Pirate Ship with Halberd or something? PS used to be one of my favourite stages and none of its hazards were ever a threat as long as you knew what you were doing. The bombs launch you less than a fully charged Lucas Usmash at 0% (actually I think they launch you a bit further than that but not by an awful lot lol), the catapult... can kill you if you don't DI but even then you can usually get out of it ok. The front of the ship is the only bad hazard and that's pretty easy to avoid anyway. Other than that, the other hazards aren't really hazards...

Not that i'm disagreeing or agreeing with anything, I don't want to get in to this discussion really, I just saw this and it set alarm bells off in my head haha.

 

[escro]

Not that i'm disagreeing or agreeing with anything, I don't want to get in to this discussion really,

you have got to be joking.

PLEASE STOP EVERYONE

NEW TOPIC: I AM LOOKING FORWARD TO SMASH SEEING AS IVE BOUGHT MY TIX ALREADY AND ALL.
NOW LETS TALK ABOUT HOW ITLL BE AWESOME

 

[tedeth]

escro you are the ****ing king. For reals.

8 thumbs up out of 8.

 

[Invisi]

Watching some of those Wintersmash vids. Man, Project M Ike looks legit. He's basically brawl Ike, except his moves aren't ridiculously slow, and his side B combos into more than just jab. Familiar, and I like it. Maybe I should try him out.

escro you are the ****ing king. For reals.

8 thumbs up out of 8.

Also this.

Speaking of changing topics

 

[Dre89]

Ever since Luke got banned this thread has turned into the sh!*est piece of s***. It disgusts me with all of the random people who have no affiliation with the NSW scene coming in and giving their two cents on every little thing.

Is this aimed at me?

If it is, I'm allowed to have open discussion about the legality of a stage, especially since I've been to a tourney and am interested in getting more involved in the Sydney scene. That's why I posted it in this thread, because if I get more involved in the smash scene, this is the scene that concerns me.

Escro- What is wrong with discussion about a stage? As long as people aren't rude (which me or Luco have not been) there should be nothing wrong with questioning the established order. It just comes across as narrow-minded or tradionalist to shut down discussion before it ever really lifts off.

 

[escro]

i dont understand the humour(?) in that.

plus, don't double post dude.

Dre, there's nothing wrong with questioning the rules. sometimes it's even enouraged.
however what's wrong is the fact that you've ignored good reasoning behind the rules and continued to argue your case when frankly, it can be shut down with simple logic. that's the reason many of us here (including me) are saying that this conversation should have ended two pages ago.

besides, if you really wanted to discuss stage selections and ****, then why are you posting it on this board?

 

[tedeth]

I can see Dreco becoming the new Grimbone...

 

[Dre89]

i dont understand the humour(?) in that.

plus, don't double post dude.

Dre, there's nothing wrong with questioning the rules. sometimes it's even enouraged.
however what's wrong is the fact that you've ignored good reasoning behind the rules and continued to argue your case when frankly, it can be shut down with simple logic. that's the reason many of us here (including me) are saying that this conversation should have ended two pages ago.

besides, if you really wanted to discuss stage selections and ****, then why are you posting it on this board?

I addressed EA's points and responded to them. Ignoring them would be making a response that didn't address anything he said as if he never posted. Just because you don't argree with my reasoning doesn't mean I'm ignoring his. By that logic I would think anyone who disagrees with me is narrow-minded, which would be stupid.

Had Toby endorsed PS for the same reasons I do (he thought the hazards weren't a problem) no one would have spoken to him the way they have spoken to me.

Also, I did go to the Stage Discussion thread first to inquire. The reason why I brought it up here is because this is the scene that concerns me, so I wanted to know why it was banned here and also get a sense of what the stage mentality of the community was like.

Funny thing is Ted sad Toki was one of the most beloved members of the community, yet he prefers the 2010 stagelist that had PS legal, so according to you guys he must also be a ******, as well other experienced smashers.

 

[Leisha]

Can we just keep this as a social now please? It's not a stage debate thread.

Anyway, is anyone keen for plans this weekend? Or anytime this week after Thursday since yeah. Need extra plans lol.

 

[escro]

Um i think ted mentioned something this weekend, but not sure.
something this weekend though would be awesome =)
until when are you in sydney Leisha?

 

[tedeth]

YES. YOU ADDRESSED EA'S GOOD POINTS WITH BAD POINT OF YOUR OWN. GOOD JOB.

WHO IS TOBY? I KNOW NOT OF THIS PERSON. YOU MEAN THE GUY WE HAVE ALL KNOWN FOR YEARS AND DISCUSSED EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS GAME WITH AND WHO YOU BARELY KNOW? GOOD JOB.

YOU WOULD HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME CHANCE OF GETTING PEOPLE TO AGRE WITH YOU IN THE STAGE DISCUSSION THREAD. 0%. GOOD JOB.

FUNNY THING IS, I WAS WITH TOKI LITERALLY THE ENTIRE TIME THE INITIAL DISCUSSION WAS GOING ON. WE WERE CONSTANTLY LAUGHING AT HOW WRONG YOU ARE. GOOD JOB.

omnicaps

 

[Dre89]

Can we just keep this as a social now please? It's not a stage debate thread.

Anyway, is anyone keen for plans this weekend? Or anytime this week after Thursday since yeah. Need extra plans lol.

Ok fair enough. To be honest I had no idea it would cause such a stir, people didn't react this way at the other places I inquired about it so this kinda took me by surprise lol.

Just for future reference though, if I want to know why something in the scene is banned/legal, or think something should be banned/legal which thread should I go to?