Data Now, Let's try it Together: Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread (Trying a New System & Owner Soon)

[Niala]

I'd be willing to try either one of those out.

 

[Macchiato]

okay lets start

 

[⑨ball]

Sorry for the wait~
Snow's been craaaaaazy

Anyway here are the testing grounds, that may become permanent depending on how well things go.

Diddy MU discussion open document

Sheik MU disposable chat room

 

[FullMoon]

Hello instructors, we in the Greninja boards are going to discuss the WFT MU and any input would be appreciated: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...t-game-watch-lucario-pac-man-3-9-3-16.369356/

Let's try it together shall we? Though I don't think Greninja needs any help in getting fit.

 

[Niala]

Hello instructors, we in the Greninja boards are going to discuss the WFT MU and any input would be appreciated: http://smashboards.com/threads/mast...t-game-watch-lucario-pac-man-3-9-3-16.369356/

Let's try it together shall we? Though I don't think Greninja needs any help in getting fit.

I'd be glad to practice with you guys sometime next week to discover the MU, but as for right now I don't really have a lot of information to provide.

 

[⑨ball]

It seems like with every patch they unnecessarily nerf both of Greninja and WFT further pushing them into under-representation. I wouldn't be surprised if both sides underestimate each other just off of what little we know of the other. Best to leave to Niala and base our thoughts off of that.

Btw guys, finally found what I was looking for in the Sonic MU in case anyone was interested. A way to deal with his partially invincible upB for offstage pressure, stronger tactics against ledge options, and a way to even the field against spin/charge dash.

 

[Niala]

Btw guys, finally found what I was looking for in the Sonic MU in case anyone was interested. A way to deal with his partially invincible upB for offstage pressure, stronger tactics against ledge options, and a way to even the field against spin/charge dash.

I'm definitely interested in hearing that. One of the stronger members in my community has a tendency to change his main weekly and he's onto Sonic right now so I'd like to hear how I can take advantage of that.

 

[⑨ball]

Spoiler: my particular sonic issues

Alright, so there were three really huge issues that I personally had going on in the Sonic MU that made it really hard for me to call it even despite Sonic not having any particularly overbearing tools against WFT:

1. On stage mix ups. Sonic's approach against WFT is really good despite it essentially just being [run up + option] this is because unlike similar characters like speed shulk or captain falcon, we couldn't duck his grab, meaning we had to rely on uncharged SS spam to slow him down and then react to his OoS play. This of course wasn't too good either because it meant it opened up a lane for:

2.Spin Charge. It goes right under uncharged SS's. We can charge it, but Sonic also has the option to cancel it out or do a jump to bait out a premature toss wasting the charge and opening our defense to all manner of fast food chain shenanigans. It's also a really hurtful process overall as using SS against his approach takes away one of WFT's strongest tools for spacing and footsies, which means that up close the best range you have is typically going to be at the end of your arm. So what would happen if you managed to work that out and got him offstage. Finally in a position to make all of that hard work pay off?

3. Spring. Sonic's UpB for some ungodly reason has invincibility during a large amount of it's startup frames, letting him pretty much eject out of any bad position you might have found him in offstage. This hurts WFT a lot because offstage is where she shines. This also means that unlike Pit who you can chase into the magnifying glass and punish, Sonic doing dairs at the ledge is pretty much free... or at least it was until a little research~

SO here's how to slow Sonic down and make it start looking like it might be a bad MU for him.

1. Using Back-Front Rtac as your neutral stance and approach. This is very low commitment movement option that cancels into itself and anything you can do out of neutral with an added slide to give WFT that much needed boost of range. This means when you see the spin charge, you want to hold your ground or approach with general safety, you can enter this state and choose the option needed to beat or cancel Sonic's approach.

If he uses spin dash - utilt. This move will already beat all of his aerials, and will more often than not beat spin dash and charge dash. The other times they will clank. Putting you both at neutral up close where Sonic is no better if not worse for the fact that nair is now in range and always leads to 20+ tacked on. This also works as an approach as it will clank with all of Sonic's normals, and slide behind him on block given a sufficient slide. On hit it pops him up slightly. Not enough to combo, but a really bad position for Sonic that will lend it self well to generally good reads or basic option coverage. It will also eat the hitbox of spring if you come across a Sonic that enjoys that mixup and doesn't know about WFT's air game.

If he runs in, use jab for general safety. Sonic's dash grab is actually kind of terrible and using it won't move him very far so he relies on his actual dash to get him close enough. Attacks beat grabs in this game, so it will always lose in this situation. Rtac jabs also have the interesting property of sliding, and can travel through shields in the case of something like Sonic running in and shielding. Jab will also clank with dash attack for Sonic's risky enough to try that laggy move and will also cancel out yolo usmashes more often than not. You can also choose how much commitment you want to place in your jab as well by inputting a crawl before using the jab. Crawl backwards for a retreating jab and forward for an approaching. Jab is generally safe, but you obviously also have access to everything else in neutral if you're making a read. Roll canceled grabs out of forward crawl rtac go really far, and are great for pivot grabs which retreating ones are particularly good against approach options. Dtilt has an immense amount of shield push for a tilt and is a decent punish with nice IASA frames.

Finally Rtac is a really nice way to make him commit to something before lobbing a fully charged SS from a retreating slide.

Onto offstage game, it's much better in this MU to just retain stage control, as there just isn't much WFT can do without customs to deal with spring escapes. Luckily the ledge is now also her domain thanks to four basic techniques combined(and this is not Sonic specific).

So once you've knocked Sonic off you have 4 option to cover his return:

• The first, and most recently put into practice despite it's age, is taking advantage of the 1 frame ledge vulnerability. You can do this by running to the ledge your self, and on reaction to spring, simply let go, hold down and UpB while holding towards the stage(no need to mash). This will catch Sonic before he can fully grab the ledge and stage spike him, also beating out or trading with any aerials he might try on the way up. You can also aim it outwards by UpBing away from the stage and force him to either try again by going low, or attempting to get on by going high. Homing attack is trash against WFT and should always be met with either, usmash or fsmash.

• The second is paramount to the third and is simply going for a ledge trump. This should have already been in your game as it's one of WFT's best kill options and between this and soft nair usmash are the only decent kill options she has below 100%. Ledge trumps however will never catch buffered get up options, which is where three and four come in.

• The third is header extension. Using a canceled header to extend your hitbox works incredible against all four option from the ledge as with dsmash you'll hit the opponent for the first options, and the ball for the fourth(roll) which will in turn strike them if they manage to get past your extended hitbox in the first place as WFT's dsmash covers a decent amount of space.

• The fourth is using buffered footstools with good timing on a bair and a charged SS to cover the options.

Beyond the first option, Sonic can still make a good read and recover safely given he knows his options and his opponent well enough, but with tactics as strong as these it's a safe statement to say this is extremely high stakes for him and a wrong move above 90% will most likely end in a stock loss.

All of this combined with WFT's other good qualities in the MU such as beating all of Sonic's air options with utilt and usmash, having a kill setup on him(soft nair>usmash) as early as 85%(75% w/DB), and having just as good if not better damage building in nair combos, is making this MU look a lot more manageable without customs. I'm really interested in seeing how things play out with them now.

 

[Xyless]

I'm new to Smash 4 mechanics, so what is RTAC? Also, WFT has a ledge trump followup? What is it, bair? I haven't had time to test but that'd be super useful to know.

 

[⑨ball]

Run turn around cancel. You can find anything relating to WFT in the index HERE. It's also a good place to ask questions since the FAQ is empty.

And yes bair is the follow up.

 

[Niala]

Replied to Diddy.document

Also, I tried the rtac utilt against a Sonic on FG yesterday, and it's pretty effective. Retreating jabs are quite effective, too, and the retreating SS you've been mentioning before is both hilarious and SUPER HARD TO BEAT. I still found the MU really difficult, just because Sonic has pretty insane pressure and speed over us, but it feels somewhat more manageable now.

Great post 9~

 

[⑨ball]

Thanks~

Yeah, Sonic is the gatekeeper of Smash 4 akin to Marth in Brawl and without customs there just aren't going to be too many characters that have solid answers to his speed. I don't mind it being difficult,(though I'll keep working to make it better) I just don't want to get janked out by some overtuned mechanic and have it control the pace of the game rather than the players.

Did you get a chance to try the hula hoops edgeguard? It's pretty much my favorite thing ever right now and works against a surprising number of recoveries that you'd think would knock you out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also what are people's thoughts on the open doc and chatroom options?

Do they work or should we try something else?

 

[Niala]

The guy I was playing against had a tendency to recover with Homing Attack and wasn't going low often, so I didn't get the opportunity to hula hoop him, sadly. I don't doubt that it works though, I've gotten more stage-spikes than I'd like to admit just recovering with it by accident.

I like the editable document, I'm not sure about the chatroom. Maybe if we had a bigger community for WFT it would work, but since there are so few of us it seems difficult to get enough people in the room to actually discuss anything.

 

[Macchiato]

I don't think it's that bad. Sun Salutation stops the spindash which can help a lot.

 

[Macchiato]

@ ⑨ball @ ぱみゅ I think we should just make a new thread. Then we should use the Google Docs think since it seems to be the most organized.

 

[⑨ball]

That was my plan anyway. I just wanted a test run of the ways we could have an open discussion for all the characters without a need for our own subforums.

I like the doc, but I'm not sure if it serves the purpose it's supposed to as there's not really any "discussion" going on. Though that might be too much to ask for seeing as the MU thread doesn't get much activity in the first place.

I'll make a new one soon and just see how it plays out from there.

 

[Shammonx]

So, I was having issues against Jigglypuff. How do I crack this puff ball?

 

[Macchiato]

So, I was having issues against Jigglypuff. How do I crack this puff ball?

Yew SD and switch mains. Lol jk

I'd say to wait for mistakes and punish.

 

[ぱみゅ]

New thread? Thins one should suffice for now until it gets more activity.

 

[⑨ball]

So, I was having issues against Jigglypuff. How do I crack this puff ball?

Harass her with projectiles from a distance using uncharged suns and short hop headers. Challenge her air game from time to time with short hop headers just to let her know that you will and they're bad trades for her(also do this against her off stage game) and bair or fully charged SS if she wants to try and space you out with fairs and sideb mixups. Anti air her constantly with utilt and usmash if you've got the read. Count her jumps if you're not going offstage after her. If she makes it back in 3 or less, prep a custom header shot . If it's 5 or more, look to ledge trump and bair for early kills. Bait air dodges for kills or pump DB for uthrow kill at later percents. If you don't know how to rtac yet, walk when you approach so you always have access to utilt. Try to stay crouched as often as possible and make her commit to an option, if she gets close utilt. Avoid random smashes so you don't get rested. If you think she might try to jank you out with her own crouch, use the time to set up a jab header before you approach.

Pretty much, just try to stay low when you're on defense, utilt often and keep your damage and pokes safe with distant-mid range suns and short hop headers. Offstage against each other is pretty much a gamble for you both as you can pretty much end each other with one move a piece try to safe your jump if you can so you have the option to challenge a fast fall nair or dair.

New thread? Thins one should suffice for now until it gets more activity.

Works for me.

-------------------------

So, something I learned today:
Jumbo hoops is wide enough to pop Villager's default and exploding balloons without getting hurt or hitting Villager, and detonation recovery does not sweet spot the ledge ever making low recoveries with it extremely susceptible to spikes.

 

[Kaiduru Zeta]

Just wondering how do you fight against DDD? He's annoying with his bulkiness and recovery. I know to throw SS when he throws gordos but what else? Also could you give your advice for Diddy,Rosaluma and Pikachu?

 

[ぱみゅ]

First of all, respect his range, and his attack speed isn't bad either, but his mobility is.
So, abuse that by camping him, crossing up, moving everywhere and throwing projectiles. You can even go for edgeguards against his jumps (not the Big Jump though).

Also, good DDDs won't use Gordos very often.

 

[Cress!]

I feel like WFT is a pretty good counter to Captain Falcon. They are similar in a lot of ways but I feel WFT has the advantage since she has a few projectiles to throw out.
Large characters can be easy to deal with if you use Nair a lot along with burial jab into ftilt or whatever you like.
Ganondorf is a joke since he's both of these categories.
Kirby is the biggest threat to WFT I feel since he has such a small hurtbox. That's the only reason I have but it can be pretty annoying.

 

[⑨ball]

Just wondering how do you fight against DDD? He's annoying with his bulkiness and recovery. I know to throw SS when he throws gordos but what else? Also could you give your advice for Diddy,Rosaluma and Pikachu?

Spoiler: DDD

Adding on to what Kyokoro said, look for opportunities to punish bad spacing as he has to commit much harder than you. You should be able to rack up damage fairly quickly without taking too much yourself if you just play safe and smart. As always, keeping opponents in the air is a good idea as projectiles make great landing traps and WFT's utilt and usmash are huge threats to opponents looking to land with aerials. Also SH header is much better against gordos in most cases as it does not stale and recovers faster. The difference in speed can also help you set custom headers easier than in other MUs and can make approaching much easier or give you some grounded options to punish DDD's that like to recover high or stay in the air often.

Spoiler: Diddy and Rosalina

We covered Diddy and space Elsa earlier and you can check the earlier pages but it pretty much comes down to forcing them to commit with good spacing by staying mobile, zoning safely and putting them offstage or in the air with your punishes and following up with traps. Keep in mind that WFT's projectile beat peanuts and bananas so you can challenge banana approaches in the Diddy MU and a large number of WFT's moves hit both sides letting you fight Rosalina without too much worry of getting socked by luma--plus many of WFT's options have high damage and knockback for their recovery meaning you can put Luma out of commission with something as simple as ftilt.

Spoiler: Pikachu

Pikachu is one of the tiny characters WFT has issue with, but his tail makes things much easier. As things like SHdair are much easier to land as are your grabs. The most important thing in this MU to get a hold of IMO is anti airing and edgeguarding. Pikachu doesn't have that much over you in range, and can be punished pretty hard by SS charge for trying to play too safe so it's important to be able to deny him fast falling aerials on you. Learn the recovery time on thunder jolts so that you only use SS to counter it when it'll hit. Otherwise powershield them and hold your charge for more opportune moments. When he's recovering, projectiles are very useful to control where he goes or to punish skullbashes, the spike portion is also a really good trade if you can land it.

In every matchup remember that WFT has easy access to ledge grab vulnerability punishes in UpB and SideB. UpB is the easiest and can net stage spikes with ease or push them back out with their jumps [as this will renew jump(s)]. Even if they tech or survive they still have to either challenge you on stage or drop low enough to reset the situation because ledge snaps don't work for many characters unless they are a certain distance away. SideB will spike when it lands without renewing jumps but isn't active as long, however it has the benefit of grabbing the ledge after it finishes making it a great setup for ledge trump bairs against recoveries without hitboxes like Rosalinas. (This can also catch recoveries with them, but as they can hold down to avoid ledge snapping it's not as reliable.) These are REALLY powerful tools and change the entire dynamic of recovering against WFT. Master them.

I feel like WFT is a pretty good counter to Captain Falcon. They are similar in a lot of ways but I feel WFT has the advantage since she has a few projectiles to throw out.
Large characters can be easy to deal with if you use Nair a lot along with burial jab into ftilt or whatever you like.
Ganondorf is a joke since he's both of these categories.
Kirby is the biggest threat to WFT I feel since he has such a small hurtbox. That's the only reason I have but it can be pretty annoying.

The real advantage comes in the ability to shut down Captain Falcon's approach with crouch and completely deny his ability to recover. It also doesn't help that he's pretty heavy making jabs super good against him.

Ganon does get hurt by similar things, but don't sleep on him. He hits a lot harder than Falcon when he does so respect him and play it safe. Despite having the advantage in both of these MUs, it doesn't take much for either of them to turn it all around.

Kirby is most likely her worst MU. I wouldn't play it in tournament without customs. She has to commit far too much for far too little with nearly everything. It's not like Kirby's a slouch up close either so it's really rough. The only saving graces she has are their weight/speed differences and having a superb edge guard game.

 

[PUK]

The worst with kirby is copy: kirby with SS and a poney tail is top tier.
Against little characters (GaW, pika, Jiggle, kirby, MK etc) reverse grab usually works without trouble.

 

[Shinuto]

I want some stuff about Yoshi, I just faced the mot annoying Yoshi who just airdodged spammed the whole match and because of his air mobility I could not punish or bait any of them and it left me very frustrated...i still won a couple times, the guy had the arrogant name IMTHEBEST....and well he only won so easily cause Yoshi is top tier and airdodge mechanics.

 

[Fancykong]

I want some stuff about Yoshi, I just faced the mot annoying Yoshi who just airdodged spammed the whole match and because of his air mobility I could not punish or bait any of them and it left me very frustrated...i still won a couple times, the guy had the arrogant name IMTHEBEST....and well he only won so easily cause Yoshi is top tier and airdodge mechanics.

Did you punish his landings? I find that I do better against Yoshi by weaving in and out of his physical attack range while using projectiles to cover my switches between the two. The projectiles also help rack up damage during the millisecond of lag on Yoshi's moves, especially Header for sniping. They also let you observe your enemy's movement habits so you can read and bait efficiently. Reverse Fair also helps with air dodging since they're liable to get hit by the tip of your finger, and Nair helps too.

On the ground, try SH Air dodge into an aerial as a crossup.

Staying mobile is key. Yoshi can decimate shields and has a lengthened grab plus a command grab, so using your running speed and air mobility is a must. His Fsmash has dumb range too, so watch out.

 

[Shinuto]

Did you punish his landings? I find that I do better against Yoshi by weaving in and out of his physical attack range while using projectiles to cover my switches between the two. The projectiles also help rack up damage during the millisecond of lag on Yoshi's moves, especially Header for sniping. They also let you observe your enemy's movement habits so you can read and bait efficiently. Reverse Fair also helps with air dodging since they're liable to get hit by the tip of your finger, and Nair helps too.

On the ground, try SH Air dodge into an aerial as a crossup.

Staying mobile is key. Yoshi can decimate shields and has a lengthened grab plus a command grab, so using your running speed and air mobility is a must. His Fsmash has dumb range too, so watch out.

I tried but his landings just ended up with him sheilding.

Yoshi just needs nerfs all around hes too fast with too safe and powerful and quick move.s

 

[Fancykong]

I tried but his landings just ended up with him sheilding.

Yoshi just needs nerfs all around hes too fast with too safe and powerful and quick move.s

Did you try just grabbing his shield? As in, you see him descending, so you throw a SS and run with it, forcing him to make a judgement call? You can adapt to beat his playstyle, WFT is very flexible.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Were you playing only FD/Omegas? He's pretty weak if forced to land on platforms, he has close to no OOS options, and of course, you can always go for hard reads on his landings and DAttack/DGrab/SS/Header(lol), or give yourself time for charging SS or Deep Breathing. Just my ideas.

 

[Shinuto]

Did you try just grabbing his shield? As in, you see him descending, so you throw a SS and run with it, forcing him to make a judgement call? You can adapt to beat his playstyle, WFT is very flexible.

he DIDNT DO shield....he'd dodge roll

Were you playing only FD/Omegas? He's pretty weak if forced to land on platforms, he has close to no OOS options, and of course, you can always go for hard reads on his landings and DAttack/DGrab/SS/Header(lol), or give yourself time for charging SS or Deep Breathing. Just my ideas.

DGRAB?! that throw is worthless why would I ever use that?! and why cant I delete my own posts so doubleposting doesnt occur by accident.

 

[ぱみゅ]

he DIDNT DO shield....he'd dodge roll

Even worse, that's locking into it for A TON of frames.

DGRAB?! that throw is worthless why would I ever use that?!

It's a bit of damage, even if not too much, every single bit counts.


And while I do appreciate the enthusiasm, please avoid double posting, ok?

EDIT: Missed your edit lol. merging them, just be careful

 

[Shinuto]

Even worse, that's locking into it for A TON of frames.

It's a bit of damage, even if not too much, every single bit counts.

And while I do appreciate the enthusiasm, please avoid double posting, ok?

EDIT: Missed your edit lol. merging them, just be careful

but the damage is crap why not use any other throw.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I meant DashGrab, not Down Throw.

 

[PUK]

Yoshi is a tough MU indeed if you don't know his strenght and weaknesses.
Yoshi has a hard time landing a killing blow. They are pretty telegraphed. His great recovery is very weak to projectile once you identified the moment his super armor stop. His grab his subpar and his range is short on his fastest attack.

But if you play on wifi with lag, it's close to be the best character so don't mind if you can't punish mistakes

 

[Cress!]

Pit (Dark Pit as well but I haven't seen him as much) has been getting on my nerves, before and after the update. Any advice?

 

[Niala]

Pit (Dark Pit as well but I haven't seen him as much) has been getting on my nerves, before and after the update. Any advice?

I'll be honest any experience I have with this MU is just For Glory, so what I have to say might not be very effective. Still, might be worth trying it.

I would try to get them off-stage as much as possible. They have insanely predictable recovery so you can intercept it really easily. I learned this one from ⑨Ball: if they recover low (which will happen a lot I expect,) use your Hoops to try and stage spike them as they come up. It's super effective against people with no hitbox on their recovery (for example, the Pits and Sonic.) The neutral can be tough because they have their own relatively strong projectile while having an answer to our own. You can't really just fire Sun Salutations quite as willy-nilly as I normally do, so I would imagine the grab game is very helpful here. I'm not sure if you can duck their grab, but you definitely can't duck their dash attack and it sets up well for them. As a result, you should probably be mixing up shields and spot-dodges on their approaches, and approaching with shield or grabs ourselves.

I'd recommend trying to keep them above you and comboing hard because their aerials can be somewhat slow to come out except Nair. But our Uair should beat their Nair every time, so that shouldn't be a problem if you just pop them up with Nair, reverse Ftilt, Utilt... etc. Once they get out, don't chase too hard though, they also have a strong punish game and can kill relatively early. I would probably place this 55:45 for the Pits if I haven't absolutely dominated every one of them I've come across. I might be overestimating their kit.

Side note: ⑨Ball, for future reference, how can I tag you in posts?

 

[Cress!]

I would try to get them off-stage as much as possible. They have insanely predictable recovery so you can intercept it really easily. I learned this one from ⑨Ball: if they recover low (which will happen a lot I expect,) use your Hoops to try and stage spike them as they come up. It's super effective against people with no hitbox on their recovery (for example, the Pits and Sonic.) The neutral can be tough because they have their own relatively strong projectile while having an answer to our own. You can't really just fire Sun Salutations quite as willy-nilly as I normally do, so I would imagine the grab game is very helpful here. I'm not sure if you can duck their grab, but you definitely can't duck their dash attack and it sets up well for them. As a result, you should probably be mixing up shields and spot-dodges on their approaches, and approaching with shield or grabs ourselves.

I'd recommend trying to keep them above you and comboing hard because their aerials can be somewhat slow to come out except Nair. But our Uair should beat their Nair every time, so that shouldn't be a problem if you just pop them up with Nair, reverse Ftilt, Utilt... etc. Once they get out, don't chase too hard though, they also have a strong punish game and can kill relatively early. I would probably place this 55:45 for the Pits if I haven't absolutely dominated every one of them I've come across. I might be overestimating their kit.

For me, I just do generally worse against all characters (except for maybe Little Mac) on Final Destination, I just need other platforms to work on. Pit can be somewhat safe with arrows since they curve so much, and Upperdash is just too good at times. You either have super armour, or reflect projectiles, you can't have both Pit. :/ At least they usually reflect my SS's with Upperdash and not the Guardian Orbitars...

I was playing at Battlefield against a Pit, and a not fully-charged (I don't remember if it even was charged at all) S-Smash killed me at 75%. That has to be too early, right? And Guardian Orbitars protect Pit's head now, so I can't bonk a Header off of him from above. Maybe I just it at a weird angle and the game read it as hitting the side, I'll have to try it again.

I can meteor smash the recovery fairly easy, but grabbing them is a universal problem for WFT, so I usually end up running past Pit or whatever character, and then they grab me to punish, so grabbing isn't the best option for me.

I just really don't like Pit. His projectile can curve so easily and goes much further than either of ours, his grabs combo and kill easier, and can reflect our projectiles with 2 moves. He just needs to stop.

 

[⑨ball]

Spoiler: P I T B O Y S

Pit's similar to WFT in that he's got all the makings of a high tier in good damage, fast run speed, strong kill options, survivability ectera ectera, only in his case, his weaknesses are much easier managed so you've got to respect his options while pressing on the weaknesses he does have. Reflects are decent and we're only a step or two faster so this isn't a MU where camping or keepaway is going to work well. As a character with such short range, the name of the game for us is always "Get them to Commit". Pit's got enough range to be classified as a sword character but has much better recovery on his aerials and tons of multihit moves to bait early shield drops and air dodges but still needs to use them at auto cancel height to stay mobile -- don't let him. Stay low as often as possible so that he either whiffs or comes to close to space safely. SS as usual is fine for zoning as long as you can react to reflects, but shines as a footsies tool. Keep charges loaded as often as possible to punish his own zoning and trying to space you out. Mid to close range is best as he'll be looking to upperdash through or orbitars SS which you can bait with charges. Punish hard with nair everytime. Speaking on orbitars it's always best to just dodge it and punish his recovery, don't block it if you don't have to. Up close you hit harder and get more from jabs so that's what you want. His grab game is pretty good and it becomes a kill throw at later percents, combined with good follow ups and a great pummel you really don't want to be getting grabbed. You can duck it but he'll nab you if you go into idle or start crawling so it might be best to threaten approaches with SS and react to his options once he get's in burst range. If you haven't mastered charge canceling yet, this would be a good MU to start.

Offstage he can pretty dangerous as he has multiple jumps, range, a spike and a recovery that'll let him try over and over again. Making him waste his jumps with breathing stalling and header can work wonders against aggression. Arrows aren't too hard to dodge if you're looking for them, just be careful about falling into a habit he can just wait out and snipe like always using header before going to the ledge. When it's the reverse Niala mentioned some things you can do which hurt him pretty bad as he can't snap the ledge if he upB's too close. Having a SS charged for the eventual upB on stage can be handy if you don't think you can punish it with nair. Don't forget header spikes either and works just as well here. Or if you're feeling especially cheeky SS charge can push his recovery out of snap range.

tl;dr: do pushups to force him close enough to punish, charge ss and hit him in the face if he tries to wall you out with his range, charge SS to bait upperdash and orbitars or ward off approaches, jank his recovery out with header and hoops.

Side note: ⑨Ball, for future reference, how can I tag you in posts?

Haha, I never even noticed I can't be tagged traditionally.
@ Lore and @ ぱみゅ , you guys have any idea how to get around the system not recognizing special characters to tag?

 

[Lore]

Nope! No idea. The tagging system is weird.