Data Now, Let's try it Together: Wii Fit Trainer's Matchup Thread (Trying a New System & Owner Soon)

[Cress!]

I'll list from worst mu to least worst for Wii Fit.

1)Mario
2)Villager
3)Olimar
4)Pikachu
5)Sheik
6)Fox
7)Diddy
8)Lucario
9)Luigi
10)Sonic
11)Duck Hunt
12)Toon Link

In my opinion these are the worst MU's for Wii Fit. Only characters that make me stay on my toes and struggle a bit against. What do they all have in common or somewhat in common? They all exploit Wii Fits lack of range. They all have longer range, out prioritize, outcamp, reflect fast and are small. They are very tedious match ups and I'm happy I live in one of the strangest areas(SoCal) and get to play against great people like Zero, Tyrant, K9, Rich Brown, Larry, And others. It's tough playing against top tiers with default Wii Fit but I'm happy that I am the best Wii Fit here. I still got a lot to learn and practice to take down these powerful players with a risky character.

No Kirby or Yoshi?

 

[⑨ball]

No Kirby or Yoshi?

There's pretty much only 2 notable Kirby players even though they're on the rise as a community so I wouldn't expect too many people to have issues with characters they don't face.

The same applies to Yoshi who has the tools on paper to beat us, but is pretty rare considering his tier placement and lacks any consistent high skill representation to really weigh against.

 

[sc458]

I'd still put them above Lucario/Duck Hunt/Toon Link simply because they actually are being represented at top level, but beyond #s 5-8 it starts to matter less.

How are people finding the Roy match-up? I haven't really faced any good Roys yet online and the first tournament I'll go to this Saturday hasn't legalised them yet so I won't need to know for now.

 

[Cress!]

There's pretty much only 2 notable Kirby players even though they're on the rise as a community so I wouldn't expect too many people to have issues with characters they don't face.

The same applies to Yoshi who has the tools on paper to beat us, but is pretty rare considering his tier placement and lacks any consistent high skill representation to really weigh against.

I have 2 friends that main Kirby, and they're just a pain to play asainst as WFT. I know she has a problem with short characters, but I wasn't sure if anyone else was.

Literally everyone in my area mains or secondaries Yoshi it makes no sense. But I guess if I play against him a lot, it just seems like I lose against him a lot.

Against Roy, I'd say try to be in the air as much as you can since he's kinda like Little Mac with a sword. He has insane power on the ground, but not so much in the air.

 

[⑨ball]

Literally everyone in my area mains or secondaries Yoshi it makes no sense. But I guess if I play against him a lot, it just seems like I lose against him a lot.

Makes sense. We can discuss it if you'd like. If Yoshi does beat us, it's certainly nothing worthy of calling a counter and some insight from everyone else might help you tackle the onslaught upright dinosaurs.

Against Roy, I'd say try to be in the air as much as you can since he's kinda like Little Mac with a sword. He has insane power on the ground, but not so much in the air.

I'd agree if WFT's options were better. She's fine when she's in the advantage, but I don't really want to be playing aerial footsies with anyone let alone sword characters.

Still haven't had the time to look into the MU, but it certainly doesn't look good.

Anyone else have any experience?

 

[Macchiato]

There's pretty much only 2 notable Kirby players even though they're on the rise as a community so I wouldn't expect too many people to have issues with characters they don't face.

The same applies to Yoshi who has the tools on paper to beat us, but is pretty rare considering his tier placement and lacks any consistent high skill representation to really weigh against.

I think we should really make another thread and start actually discussion now.

 

[⑨ball]

Against Roy, I'd say try to be in the air as much as you can since he's kinda like Little Mac with a sword. He has insane power on the ground, but not so much in the air.

Had some time to examine the MU a bit. I was really worried his fantastic short hop was going to be a threat against our usual style of footsies. Pretty much whiffs everything or gets the dead part of the blade. Punishes are powerful but he doesn't have a solid way to put you in position to be so outside of grab which whiff on us crouching. Dies relatively early to setups, edgeguard bait, and needs a lot more punishes on us than we do before we reach kill percents. We should be fine here but I want to see his meta develop a bit more before I say anything for certain.

I think we should really make another thread and start actually discussion now.

I originally wanted to find some way to consolidate MUs into one thread to reduce clutter, but the forums are dead enough that it's honestly welcome at this point.

I'm thinking 1 main thread with links to the multiple others we'll be making like how the Falco boards are doing it. Sound good to everyone else?

 

[Macchiato]

Had some time to examine the MU a bit. I was really worried his fantastic short hop was going to be a threat against our usual style of footsies. Pretty much whiffs everything or gets the dead part of the blade. Punishes are powerful but he doesn't have a solid way to put you in position to be so outside of grab which whiff on us crouching. Dies relatively early to setups, edgeguard bait, and needs a lot more punishes on us than we do before we reach kill percents. We should be fine here but I want to see his meta develop a bit more before I say anything for certain.


I originally wanted to find some way to consolidate MUs into one thread to reduce clutter, but the forums are dead enough that it's honestly welcome at this point.

I'm thinking 1 main thread with links to the multiple others we'll be making like how the Falco boards are doing it. Sound good to everyone else?

Yes sounds great, would you fine with making it? I could call over the boards that were discussion so they can put their side of the MU.

 

[⑨ball]

I'll do the main one and leave secondary discussion threads to players most familiar with the MU (ala the type of players they spar with the most).

That'll work or we can look at what's already written up on us. Not many people actually know the WFT MU so it might not be too useful, but can atleast give us a glimpse into how they think. As long as we're not calling everyone at once to make up for loss time, it should be ok.

 

[Macchiato]

I'll do the main one and leave secondary discussion threads to players most familiar with the MU (ala the type of players they spar with the most).

That'll work or we can look at what's already written up on us. Not many people actually know the WFT MU so it might not be too useful, but can atleast give us a glimpse into how they think. As long as we're not calling everyone at once to make up for loss time, it should be ok.

Idk I feel like a good player who doesn't know anything about WiiFit would not tell us how the match-up would go but how their character would do in a specific situation

 

[⑨ball]

Idk I feel like a good player who doesn't know anything about WiiFit would not tell us how the match-up would go but how their character would do in a specific situation

It's definitely possible. Again, it won't hurt us to ask. I'll leave it to when the time comes.

 

[Moydow]

Greetings, fitness fanatics!
The boards have just started discussion on the match-up. Any input from you folks would be much appreciated!

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

To all Wii Fit Trainers out there, the Rosalina sub-forum has a match-up discussion thread all set up to analyze Rosalina's match-up against Wii Fit Trainer. Got anything to share for the Rosalina vs. Wii Fit Trainer match-up? Then head to the following thread link...

http://smashboards.com/threads/415286/

In terms of the rules, be sure to go to the directory thread.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404194/

 

[A_Kae]

Hello, Wii Fit Trainer mains. The Marth boards have begun discussion on the Wii Fit Trainer matchup. If you have any input to add, or wish to fight against a Marth player for matchup knowledge, please join us.

http://smashboards.com/threads/vs-wii-fit-trainer-matchup-discussion-and-analysis.416931/

 

[Adversary]

Didn't know where to post this but i found a good use for Header cancel on smashville if your opponent is near the smash platform you can header cancel into up tilt(Meaning your up tilt with hit the soccer ball) and then throw out a sun salutation i think its a good pressure tool to make someone get off a platform and will heavily damage their shield if they're around the platform in the air they're going to get hit by the ball or your sun.

 

[Lukingordex]

How well WFT does against Luigi?

 

[Lord_Espurr]

How well WFT does against Luigi?

She could do worse against him. I Know that uncharged sun salutation can go over his neutral b, so at least she doesn't get completely boxed out by it like other characters.

 

[Daxter]

Maybe I've missed an old post about it, but what is the stance on Wii Fit vs Mewtwo or Pac Man?

 

[Thinktron]

How do people feel about wii fit vs greninja? im thinking of picking wii fit up

 

[SteadyDisciple]

The general consensus seems to be that Greninja is one of Wii Fit's hardest MU's, due to Greninja's low profile, speed, and reach on attacks. Water shuriken is also an amazing poke tool that is really hard for WFT to deal with, since it is both very fast and low to the ground, but can also be charged to make power shielding almost impossible.

With that said, I play both, and in my experience they're actually pretty similar. Both tend towards defensive play, have great projectiles, are relatively mobile... the biggest differences are really that WFT is much better at playing off-stage (not to be confused with better at recovering), and Grenina has an easier time setting up combos.

 

[Thinktron]

The general consensus seems to be that Greninja is one of Wii Fit's hardest MU's, due to Greninja's low profile, speed, and reach on attacks. Water shuriken is also an amazing poke tool that is really hard for WFT to deal with, since it is both very fast and low to the ground, but can also be charged to make power shielding almost impossible.

With that said, I play both, and in my experience they're actually pretty similar. Both tend towards defensive play, have great projectiles, are relatively mobile... the biggest differences are really that WFT is much better at playing off-stage (not to be confused with better at recovering), and Grenina has an easier time setting up combos.

cheers for the input, just a fun matchup i had with a friend felt pretty even definitely going to use her more

 

[John12346]

I posted this in the Rosalina MU thread without realizing it was dead for a month. All the same, it's a good read about how we fare in the neutral: http://smashboards.com/threads/rosalina-match-up-analysis-r2-wii-fit-trainer.415286/#post-20310860

Also, I would say Wii Fit's worst matchups, in order from worst to not worst, are:

Kirby
Sheik
Ness
Fox
Mario
Villager
Falco

I know it's weird to have a character that's around Wii Fit's placement on the tier list be our worst matchup, but the Kirby matchup really is horrible enough to invalidate us to the point that a secondary is MANDATORY. NYC is swamped with Kirbies, so I can say with a reasonable amount of certainty I know what I'm getting at here. That onstage crouch being able to dodge our Ftilt, Sun Salutation, and grabs (despite the recent buff to its hitbox, the beginning frames of Kirby's crouch animation, as well as as a lot of the frames on his Dtilt still avoid our grab) means that we have no neutral, aside from jumping off the stage and planking with Suns and headers, as well as some level of platform camping. It's definitely a -2, or worse. And god forbid, we get Inhaled by Kirby, the matchup becomes an instant -4. Any leverage we had in the matchup before immediately goes up in smoke with Kirby shooting murder blasts and healing at the same time.

Everyone below Kirby isn't bad enough to warrant secondaries. And I know it's strange that Falco is there, but that little bugger does hit rather hard, and his attacking Reflector does mess with our neutral pretty heavily, that's for sure.

 

[sam☆jam]

I know it's already been discussed, but I've been fighting lots of Marios lately and the matchup feels like Wii Fit is at a disadvantage in nearly every state. in particular, I'm having lots of trouble dealing with:

-Mario's dash attack and landing nair animations going under jab/grab
-Mario's cape weakening WFT's zoning game (and kill option)
-Mario's Dair being used as a crossup, and how it can lead into grab if WFT doesn't have another jump
-Landing as WFT, even with Header/DB cancel mixups it's difficult to escape.
-Intangibility on Mario's recovery

Is there a smart way to work around his cape so i can zone? Or is there any advantage WFT has that I should capitalize on? I don't want to have to switch to a secondary, especially if Numbers thinks the matchup is doable

 

[John12346]

It's true that Mario has Cape to answer our Sun, but it's important to keep in mind we have Sun to answer his Fireball, so at the very least, you can dissuade a projectile based approach in this way. Plus, like in a lot of reflector MUs, just keeping the thing charged to force the opponent to flinch with their reflector is also very important. If you are tricky enough with how you handle your Sun, neither party is going to be shooting very many projectiles at each other.

In the end, the matchup comes down to spacing Bairs with each other. Just keep short hopping around with your back facing towards him. If Mario tries to be too aggressive and advance with an aerial or dash attack/grab, try to space it out and plant your feet in his face. If he advances while you're not in a position to control him with a Bair, I heavily recommend getting the heck out of there with aircamping and platform camping. It can be obnoxious to give up that much stage control just because Mario decided to push some buttons, but Wii Fit isn't really a character who NEEDS stage control to function properly. While retreating, Mario is very likely to try to chase you down with Uairs, so make sure you throw in some airdodges (or Bairs if he puts himself in position for it) as you look to land on a platform, or just straight up veer all the way offstage to the edge.

For edgeguarding Mario, it's true that it's almost impossible to get him if he's in range to just UpB the ledge. That's why, when you knock him offstage, you have to reach him BEFORE he gets into that range. In general, you want to force him to airdodge, and then time one of your spikes or Fair. It is very difficult, but not impossible, and it's very satisfying when you land that business.

When it comes down to it, all aspects of the matchup for us involve watching for what Mario is about to do, and retreating a great deal if we know we can't really do anything about it at the time. Just be patient, and wait for your opportunities. I don't want to say this is a -2 matchup, but it's definitely not a -1. -1.5, I guess, then?

 

[Cress!]

So this thread hasn't had a single post since Cloud was released. What does everyone think of the matchup?
I think that it's pretty heavily in our favor if the opponent tries to play offensive or balanced. If we go offstage, most Clouds I play against run to the ledge. This makes them open to almost anything and you are decently safe yourself. I've played against quite a few people that run to the ledge at 0%, just to take a Nair -> Ftilt to hit them offstage -> footstool and there goes a stock. It's kinda sad. Defensive Clouds could be a significant problem but I haven't played any (at least any that are at least semi-decent at defensive Cloud) so I don't have much to say about that. If we do need to approach Cloud when he's playing defensive, we should approach in the air since he can't do much against aerial approaches compared to grounded ones and Wii Fit just does better in the air. Crouching sadly isn't very effective against Cloud.
I may add more later.

 

[John12346]

Cloud is a toughie, primarily because his ability to charge his Limit Gauge directly competes with our ability to charge things up and heal. To some extent, we need to approach, but then we run into our universal problem of struggling in neutral against sword characters to a degree. It's important to stay safely out of the range of that sword, but close enough that Cloud would be uncomfortable to continue to charge his Limit. Approaching through Cloud's neutral is a difficult task that I wouldn't recommend, so I'd say just continue to try to pelt him with projectiles from a mid-range until he decides to approach you. That's your best chance to get your hits in, I'd say.

When Cloud DOES obtain his Limit, do not fret. It's at this point that you can proceed to run away and throw things at him from a full stage away. Play smart with your shield, because if you continuously have it out when he gets too close, there's absolutely nothing he can do about it, because the rewards he gains off throws are negligible at best(low damage throws, no kill throws, no kill throw combos...). Obviously, be careful for shield breaks, because Limit Blade Beam and Limit Cross Slash can do a real number on your shield and potentially destroy them if you're not paying attention.

Some other notes, if your Sun is charged and Cloud decides to use a regular Blade Beam, feel free to blast him in the face as punishment, as that move has a considerable amount of ending lag.

And... as we all know, if Cloud doesn't have his Limit Gauge charged, his recovery is very easy to intercept. Always look for your opportunities for where you could go for the low percent gimps.

Overall, I would say this matchup is an even 50:50.

 

[WispBae]

Hey there, fitness gurus! The Doggy boards are currently discussing this MU and would love your input on it!

Click on Tanuki WFT to hula hoop straight over to our thread!

 

[Rucent]

The Sonic Match Up Thread is currently discussing Sonic vs Wii Fit Trainer! We would love it if you gave us your input on the match up!

http://smashboards.com/threads/soni...-wii-fit-trainer.390575/page-13#post-20845715

Thank you! :D

 

[JigglyZelda003]

Zelda boards are currently discussing Yoga poses and would love if more of you girls joined in the discussion.

http://smashboards.com/threads/a-li...ad-discussion-fitness-and-yoga.384490/page-26

 

[Blue Banana]

Hi, the Olimar board is now discussing the Wii Fit Trainer matchup. Any input is appreciated.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I find Wii Fit vs Pikachu fairly difficult. Low profile makes a lot of attacks whiff very easily, thunder jolt alone practically takes away most offstage and ledge options, and Wii Fit doesn't really have too many options against being juggled by him or being popped up by QACs.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Rosalina is analyzing Wii Fit Trainer at her sub-forum again. You can go to the following thread link if you have anything to contribute for the match-up.

http://smashboards.com/threads/415286/

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Alright folks, this board has sat cold and dead for far, FAR too long. So, here's my best attempt to jump start it again.

Today, I participated in my first tournament, and with 128 entrants made it to top 4. I was doing great with just Wii Fit Trainer up until I bumped into a great Villager who I just could not deal with.

I understand that Villager is a hard matchup for WFT, but does anyone have any good advice for this matchup? The combo of Lloyd Rocket and Slingshot were a particular hassle.

 

[⑨ball]

It's been dead because we started a new mu thread months ago. (though that's dead too =_=

Anyway, villager's strength lies in his zoning, and while SS can tear through his projectiles, we really don't want to give him that by accident so imo the best strategy comes down to forcing cqc and 50/50s in neutral by maintaining a close distance to him and utilizing crouch and sun cancel shenanigans.

I can go into more detail if you'd like. Also, I know John12346 has fought CaptnAwesum's villager a number of times, so he can give some good advice.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

I would love to hear your more in-depth thoughts on the matchup. As for the matchup thread(s) being dead, could we work out a new system somehow? There are some boards that have managed to go through all the MU's multiple times, and as far as I know, we've never made it past a handful of top tiers...

 

[⑨ball]

I would love to hear your more in-depth thoughts on the matchup. As for the matchup thread(s) being dead, could we work out a new system somehow? There are some boards that have managed to go through all the MU's multiple times, and as far as I know, we've never made it past a handful of top tiers...

Alright~
Vilager's main zoning tools are lloid rocket and fair/bair.

Lloid has a 52 frame start up so if you stay in range, you can run up and bair or grab him for free. While the hitbox is slow, the hurtbox appears fast enough with an early generation damage bonus high enough to nullify reactive suns, so don't waste any charges on it. Slingshots wreck Wft's tall stature but can't hit her crouching, lose to sun, and have 23 frames of landing lag so it's always a risk to challenge her charging, walking, or using rtac. If you're out of range for a lloid punish (even if lloid isn't active or being used) you should be closing in safely and slowly. It's fine to challenge lloid approaches every now and then if you've got the read, but there's nothing wrong with ejecting from that pressure entirely until you're close enough. Without safe access to those options Villager has to resort to footsies where jab is his safest option.

Advantage stuff is as per usual. Uair any nairs you see, Usmash dair challenges to keep them honest, crouch parry anything you're unsure on, and 50/50 or crouch burst punish any distance further than fsmash can reach. Keep in mind that offstage hulahoops are great for popping balloons, and header gets it's hitbox extended when hitting balloons.

Disadvantage doesn't change much either from the norm. Just remember that uair will clank out tree and bowling ball edgeguards, and you can use an attack much lower than villager and still recover if he's particularly aggressive. Respect the range and power on slingshot like they are swords.

It's rough because villager controls space much better than wft and has better oos options, ontop of pocket but I don't think it's bad enough to require a secondary



As for the mu thread, the system we have now is probably about as good as we can get. There's simply not enough activity on the boards to look for more than letting people talk about what they're interested in at that moment.

 

[Lukingordex]

How well do your guys think WFT does against Cloud and Diddy?

Also i've heard that WFT has the advantage against Ryu, do your guys agree with it?

 

[⑨ball]

How well do your guys think WFT does against Cloud and Diddy?

Also i've heard that WFT has the advantage against Ryu, do your guys agree with it?

Not sure why no one's answered this but:

This is John Number's(who is largely thought of as the best WFT main right now) MU chart.

 

[Egghead]

Not sure why no one's answered this but:

This is John Number's(who is largely thought of as the best WFT main right now) MU chart.

John12346 got it spot on.
, seem like pretty even match ups though. If wii edgeguard with back air and they do not have a jump, then they immediately lose their stock. Buuuuut we cannot camp cloud because of limit and Mario can rack up damage and kill earlier so this is practically 100% accurate.

My friend main's cloud so if we ever play smash together, I might get some insight. I let clouds charge their limit so my view of the neutral vs cloud might be significantly altered.

 

[SteadyDisciple]

Can we talk about the matchup? I feel like I have no idea whatsoever about how to play against this character. It's probably just matchup inexperience, but it really feels like Samus beats Wii Fit Trainer. It's really hard to play the range game against charge shot and missiles, but it also feels really hard to get in on Samus due to her larger hitboxes. On top of that, ledge guarding/gimping her feels really, REALLY hard thanks mostly to screwattack, but also in part due to bombs, tether grab, and her general floatiness.

Not saying John12346 is wrong with where he placed her (I'll be the first to admit to being an average player at best) but I would seriously rather run into half of the characters we're supposedly at a disadvantage against than Samus. What am I missing?