Not a Tier List: Montage's Character ratings: New Info: Meta, Sonic, Snake, Lucario

[xbrinkx]

Toon pwns! Toon Link for top tier! Toon is full of win.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I lold


Edit: you playing for 3 hours doesn't give you solid ground to make claims.

I.E. If you built a roof in 3 hours, would you have the balls to dance on it. Apply that here

-diem

I've played for over 100 hours... not that that makes me infallible, but I support his claims that ZSS is substantially better than Power Suit Samus.

Take it for whta you will

 

[mindlesstom]

I've played for over 100 hours... not that that makes me infallible, but I support his claims that ZSS is substantially better than Power Suit Samus.

Take it for whta you will

vs who? Her hitboxes are smaller than MArth's neutral B.

 

[Super Drybones]

Got this far
"Kirby:
I do not play kirby, and don't want to. I encourage others to give me feedback. I'll take it into consideration, and maybe play him down the line. Sorry Kirby fans."
Then said character rating my *** try popularity contest

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

vs who? Her hitboxes are smaller than MArth's neutral B.

samus's moves are so slow... and ZSS attacks so fast... and her LARGE hitboxed side B kills. it doesn't take humongous hitboxes on all moves to be good

 

[mindlesstom]

Got this far
"Kirby:
I do not play kirby, and don't want to. I encourage others to give me feedback. I'll take it into consideration, and maybe play him down the line. Sorry Kirby fans."
Then said character rating my *** try popularity contest

If this were a popularity contest, wouldn't he have said:

KIRBY IS MAD GAY HE GETS A 1.

No, he talked about he isn't fit to rate him, as that style of play doesn't suit him, therefore showing his unbiased nature towards the game.

btw... How can you be a super drybones? Do you resurrect with mutant abilities?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

If this were a popularity contest, wouldn't he have said:

KIRBY IS MAD GAY HE GETS A 1.

No, he talked about he isn't fit to rate him, as that style of play doesn't suit him, therefore showing his unbiased nature towards the game.

btw... How can you be a super drybones? Do you resurrect with mutant abilities?

I'd imagine that his bones are just super dry... being more deficient of water than even a standard drybones

 

[Dry Bones]

my bones are surprisingly moist, ill have you know =)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

my bones are surprisingly moist, ill have you know =)

O.o GAH!! there's more of them

 

[aniemfanzmg]

why is sheiks recovery so low his jumps are big he has tether and his teleport while not safe can avoid edgehogging. though not absolutly steller i see it as better than a 5 or = to bowser and less than zss who both really suck at recovering.

 

[dmbrandon]

why is sheiks recovery so low his jumps are big he has tether and his teleport while not safe can avoid edgehogging. though not absolutly steller i see it as better than a 5 or = to bowser and less than zss who both really suck at recovering.

Tethers are easily gimped. No one can seem to sweet spot the ledge, as they did in melee.

Edit: yes, much worries on tons of dry bones.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Why is Marth still at an 8.5 when **** near anyone who plays the game extensively says he is viable for number 1?

His shieldbreaker is good for recovery and his dancing blade is a solid combo string.

So what if he has less range? He still out ranges the majority of the cast.

Nair goes over peoples heads? Alot of aerials do and he can auto cancel it and be safe on landing. It's more of a defensive tool for a SH and a good aerial killer.

All his smashes are great. And his tilts are still good.

Seriously why is he an 8.5?

 

[Dry Bones]

if marth is on 8.5, he is only beaten by Wolf and Toon Link i believe, so its a very good score

edit: oh and Diddy =)

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Or Down Aerials...or Up aerials.....or Neutral aerials even. Which means you have to rely on her tilts and forward smash to get the job done. She's not bad or anything, but her recovery sure is and she is remarkably slow. She's fantastic against large guys, but when your effective moveset is reduced to about a throw and a handful of token moves, she's going to have trouble.


And the Olimar or Lucas don't need much damage for a Space Animal to K.O them either. That doesn't matter. What does matter is that both character have lame recoverys, and Lucas gets comboed like it is going out of style.

Lucas's nair is very fast and has massive priority and no lag on landing. Yeah, sure he gets comboed.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But the thing is. No one that I have talked to that is pro melee player has said that sapcies or Diddy could be number one. Only Marth and Toon Link have really come up in that regard when I talk to people.

I mean when you look at why Marth lost a point. It's kinda bull**** IMO. He is still realy really good. Just different.

 

[Gum]

But the thing is. No one that I have talked to that is pro melee player has said that sapcies or Diddy could be number one. Only Marth and Toon Link have really come up in that regard when I talk to people.

I mean when you look at why Marth lost a point. It's kinda bull**** IMO. He is still realy really good. Just different.

I guess it really depends on who your dealing with. ChuDat has a badass Ivysaur, and Chillin is nuts with squirtle. Honestly, there is enough balance in Brawl for more than just Marth and Toon Link to be in the top. Ness and Lucas are retartedly strong. Zelda *****. ZSS is actually redonclulous despite dm's shenanigans. Olimar, while definatly advanced, is awesome. I could go on. Unlike in Melee where there was a handful of general must-know advanced techs that pretty much applied to each character, Brawl has a more spread out advanced tech dynamic that is much more character specific. I saw Lucas **** Marth with a consistent use of PK wavelands, and is was great. I doubt we are going to see another Melee where only 5 characters are used in high level play.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I guess it really depends on who your dealing with. ChuDat has a badass Ivysaur, and Chillin is nuts with squirtle. Honestly, there is enough balance in Brawl for more than just Marth and Toon Link to be in the top. Ness and Lucas are retartedly strong. Zelda *****. ZSS is actually redonclulous despite dm's shenanigans. Olimar, while definatly advanced, is awesome. I could go on. Unlike in Melee where there was a handful of general must-know advanced techs that pretty much applied to each character, Brawl has a more spread out advanced tech dynamic that is much more character specific. I saw Lucas **** Marth with a consistent use of PK wavelands, and is was great. I doubt we are going to see another Melee where only 5 characters are used in high level play.

Wow, people actually are using my PK waveland effectively?

Wow, I feel kinda good.

 

[plasmatorture]

I went ahead and reorganized the list according to the overall rank you've given them. I'm not sure if it's of any use or if anyone even wants this, but I think it's interesting to see how the balance of power is shaping up to be, according to you. It's quite nice to see how top-heavy (ie good characters) this game is, and even the worst ones aren't too far down there.

I went ahead and arbitrarily recolored names into different tiers based on numbers (<5=Red, 5.5-6.5=Orange, 7-7.5= Yellow, 8=Light Green, >8.5=Lime).
These loosely correlate to a prediction for tiers, where red = bottom, orange = low, yellow = mid, light green = high, and lime = top, but I think it's more than fair to say that Yellow+ are definitley viable (and it's way too early to talk about tiers anyways).

I can keep updating this if you want as you update yours, or you can steal this from me, or if nobody is interested in seeing your opinions organized this way I can never do it again too. :D


Without further ado, the list itself:



Kirby: ?
Snake: 3-9

Yoshi: 4
Captain Falcon: 4.5
Bowser: 5
IceClimbers: 5
Link: 5
Zero-Suit Samus: 5.5
Jigglypuff: 6
Mario: 6
Wario: 6
Charizard: 6.5
DK: 6.5
Ganondorf: 6.5
Mr. Game & Watch: 6.5
Ivysaur: 7
Lucario: 7
Luigi: 7
Peach: 7
Shiek: 7
Ike: 7.5
Ness: 7.5
Pikachu: 7.5
Sonic: 7.5
Squirtle: 7.5
Zelda: 7.5
DeDeDe: 8
Lucas: 8
Metaknight: 8
Olimar: 8
Pit: 8
R.O.B.: 8
Samus: 8
Falco: 8.5
Fox: 8.5
Marth: 8.5
Diddy: 9
Wolf: 9
Toon Link: 9.5

 

[Irow]

Honestly, Marth definitely should have a higher ranking. At least at Toon Link's.

Marth has bad *** range. His moves are all powerful for how quick they are. Forward B ***** on the ground. Marth can also easily just chance off people the stage with fairs.

His Up-B is stupidly powerful, and he rarely would need the forward b to help him in recovery.

Marth is quick and fluid, plus he has enough power to rack up percent with his Forward B and Fair. Tip is still awesome to kill with. Plus a tipped fair acts has ridiculous knockback.

Marth's sword spaces better than just about anything I've seen.

 

[Milln]

I went ahead and arbitrarily recolored names into different tiers based on numbers (<5=Red, 5.5-6.5=Orange, 7-7.5= Yellow, 8=Light Green, >8.5=Lime).
These loosely correlate to a prediction for tiers, where red = bottom, orange = low, yellow = mid, light green = high, and lime = top, but I think it's more than fair to say that Yellow+ are definitley viable (and it's way too early to talk about tiers anyways).

I can keep updating this if you want as you update yours, or you can steal this from me, or if nobody is interested in seeing your opinions organized this way I can never do it again too. :D


Without further ado, the list itself:



Kirby: ?
Snake: 3-9

Yoshi: 4
Captain Falcon: 4.5
Bowser: 5
IceClimbers: 5
Link: 5
Zero-Suit Samus: 5.5
Jigglypuff: 6
Mario: 6
Wario: 6
Charizard: 6.5
DK: 6.5
Ganondorf: 6.5
Mr. Game & Watch: 6.5
Ivysaur: 7
Lucario: 7
Luigi: 7
Peach: 7
Shiek: 7
Ike: 7.5
Ness: 7.5
Pikachu: 7.5
Sonic: 7.5
Squirtle: 7.5
Zelda: 7.5
DeDeDe: 8
Lucas: 8
Metaknight: 8
Olimar: 8
Pit: 8
R.O.B.: 8
Samus: 8
Falco: 8.5
Fox: 8.5
Marth: 8.5
Diddy: 9
Wolf: 9
Toon Link: 9.5

I enjoy this because the colors are pretty. +3 Happy Points to you.

 

[Staco]

yessa, meta 8 ^^
now its sure I main him, I love kirbny series and mostly mk =)

 

[Dry Bones]

the people who think that Marth should have a higher score have a Fire Emblem related signature or avatar

hmm... iiiiiiiiinteresting...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

No seriously he's right. Marth is amazing. I'd say he's probably the best. He's lost a bit from melee, but he's the only high teir character from melee who didn't recieve a huge neg.

We haven't really had many competent marth v. wolf matces here, so I can't speak to that, but he pretty well dominates diddy.

None of us are really space animal players at all, so I could be biased, but they don't seem like bids for top teir... wolf's the best of them, but I still wouldn't put him best in the game.

and, while in compitent hands, sonic and metaknight are pretty fiercely damaging, they are so non-threateningly unable to KO things. Maybe they shouldn't be the worst, but they are worse than where they are ranked.

ZSS seems much better than where her ranking places her along with luigi and zelda

Power suit samus seems worse, along with sonic, meta knight, ike (he's good now, but I'd bet that once people become compitent enough, this bruiser will drop down) and most of the top teir... excluding marth. The space animals are about the only characters that it's still relatively easy to edgeguard. Having a sonic spring dropped on you at 50% damage shouldn't kill you... but the space animals disagree

 

[fazares]

give it a rest.. we already know you either don't like the opinion/impression he gave on your char/ or you're upset you're never right. stfu and gtfo already... go find someone else who will "bedazzle" your character the way you like.

haha...btw its safer to assume its better to go to your favourite character subforum to get infos....this thread is useless....many smashers have got the game now and can contradict the op...me included:-)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

haha...btw its safer to assume its better to go to your favourite character subforum to get infos....this thread is useless....many smashers have got the game now and can contradict the op...me included:-)

yeah um... while not everything is wrong here... I'm pretty sure that this thread, despiting being the official, unnoficial thread on the speculative tier list, is pretty onesided, and from what I've heard leaking out of the back room, it doesn't match up with common opinion.


I'm imagining that you guys were space animals in melee which is why you are placing them so high in brawl, familiarity, and the desire to play them and make them better.

 

[fazares]

he said that mario got downgraded when he is one of the most buffed character....i ve got the game and i can say this guy cant probably play a decent mario...i guess he and his friends cant play as good as gimpy did in that youtube video despite him not even being a mario mainer....thats the reason i think its better to go the subforums to get a better idea on your favourite character...

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

he said that mario got downgraded when he is one of the most buffed character....i ve got the game and i can say this guy cant probably play a decent mario...i guess he and his friends cant play as good as gimpy did in that youtube video despite him not even being a mario mainer....thats the reason i think its better to go the subforums to get a better idea on your favourite character...

yeah... right off the bat, hat was my big sign.

Mario recieved buffs... period. No way he's worse in brawl than he was in melee. None whatsoever.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

and, while in compitent hands, sonic and metaknight are pretty fiercely damaging, they are so non-threateningly unable to KO things. Maybe they shouldn't be the worst, but they are worse than where they are ranked.

That's because they're not made to kill with power attacks, they're supposed to chase foes off the stage and screw up their recovery instead of launching them with power attacks.

Heck, your very on example of getting hit with a Sonic spring is a great way to use Sonic, and is far better than trying to land an unreliable power hit.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

That's because they're not made to kill with power attacks, they're supposed to chase foes off the stage and screw up their recovery instead of launching them with power attacks.

Heck, your very on example of getting hit with a Sonic spring is a great way to use Sonic, and is far better than trying to land an unreliable power hit.

Have you played the game?

I have. And let me tell you, it's not like melee. Screwing up recoveries is not something the works often. Space animals, A stupid pit coming in low or characters with tether recoveries are about all it's possible to try and stop. other than that, charcters are gonna come back normally. Brawl is MUCH more about your straight, knock-you-off-the-screen KOs and far less about stoping them from coming back.

and the sonic spring is weak... REALLY weak. While it's creative and can score KOs occasionally, it's far from reliable

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Yes I've played it. I know **** well Sonic's priority sucks. I spent more time with Lucas though which is why I'm going by videos. And from what I've seen, Sonic was far more successful when he smacked foes away at the edge of the screen and/or intercepted them than he did trying to land his unreliable power attacks.

 

[Staco]

metaknight players has already won torunaments!
and in double torunaments in the finals metaknight often was used

 

[Lunaretic]

A lot of you guys are getting upset if the points for your favorite character aren't exactly what you wanted, or if you feel one of the #'s is grossly wrong. -Look- at the topic title guys, Montage's Character Rankings, these are a personal thing, not a die hard perfect list. These guys are most likely wrong on one or more characters, but overall, this gives those of us w/o the game a vauge idea what to expect.

 

[Gum]

Wow, people actually are using my PK waveland effectively?

Wow, I feel kinda good.

congratz to you for discovering that. its pretty vicious, especially with lucas since his PK fire has knockback. great for keep away tactics on *****es like marth.

Speaking of pwning marth, did anyone notice that while marth is recovering if you do a down B spike with ZSS, it out-prioritizes Marth's Up B and kills him at like 35%? pretty asstastic.

Also, despite the fact that marth didnt get nerfed TOO bad, his range got dismally reduced. Ive seen missed forward smashes that would have destoid face in melee. I kinda feel like this is a major set back since there are now characters with more range and priority. This obviously means he cant hide behind his range as much, which is bad news for him against wolf.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I believe you should edit concerning DK's final smash. There is a video showing that DK's final smash takes up the entire stage when done properly.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Yes I've played it. I know **** well Sonic's priority sucks. I spent more time with Lucas though which is why I'm going by videos. And from what I've seen, Sonic was far more successful when he smacked foes away at the edge of the screen and/or intercepted them than he did trying to land his unreliable power attacks.

yeah... and my point is, in brawl, when someone has to rely on intercepting recoveries as his primary method of KOs, that's bad.

 

[flyinfilipino]

yeah... and my point is, in brawl, when someone has to rely on intercepting recoveries as his primary method of KOs, that's bad.

What's wrong with that?

 

[ShadowLink84]

yeah... and my point is, in brawl, when someone has to rely on intercepting recoveries as his primary method of KOs, that's bad.

Your opponent is capable of surviving at higher pecentages in Brawl than in melee.
I've seen characters go up past 150% before they were capable of being killed with a power move and only a few characters can knock them out at 100%
This statement would only stand in melee where you needed to be capable of killing your opponent at lower percentages which is why characters like young Link were low on the list because of their lack of killing moves at low potential.

Because Brawl has made it much easier to recover this time around the game is going to be more revolved around air guarding and interrupting yor opponents recovery rather than bring your opponent to 100% and then smash them out far enough so that you require little edge guarding.

This means characters like Ike and Bowser will do far better seeing as they are one of the few characters capable of KOing at around 100% while everyone else must do more or at least air guard properly if they wish to knock the opponent out at the same amount of damage.

 

[Zoz0]

Because Brawl has made it much easier to recover this time around the game is going to be more revolved around air guarding and interrupting yor opponents recovery rather than bring your opponent to 100% and then smash them out far enough so that you require little edge guarding.

I hope your correct in your analysis of the overall flow of Brawl compared to Sonic the Dawg's view on things. (nothing personal, of course) Since the 2 of you seem to have completely opposite views. I just hope the game revolves around intercepting your opponet rather than building up damage to 150% and then smashing. If it works I think the game will be more balanced.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

Nobody intercepts so far because they're playing it safe--brawl is still a transition and they're still employing Melee tactics. They're not used to air battles being easier, so until some brave soul shows us useful air combos characters like Metaknight and Sonic will continue to be underrated for lack of kill tactics.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

Excuse me for sayhing this, but if you're going to rate the characters, please have the decentcy to rate EVERY character, INCLUDING Kirby!