Not a Tier List: Montage's Character ratings: New Info: Meta, Sonic, Snake, Lucario

[dmbrandon]

Uh, dmbrandon. Not playing a character because you don't like them is rather biased.
Just saying man. I'm glad you did this, but you really need to work on internet people skills. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were a jabbering idiot and/or troll with MPD.

No, not responding to your post with reasonable justification is biased. gtfo. ^_^

I'm sad to see that you find Toon Link and Diddy, both of whom annoy me very much, got such high ratings... at least Ike and Wolf (mains I decided on) got good marks... nice work.

WW Link is the man! Except his game sucked. Oh wait, he's just an idiot!

D:

norly. Diddy is nasty, as is TL. Wolf is really hard to deal with in the right hands, while Ike needs the right hands just to be usable!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ike is easily high tier matieral.

But Zelda, Marth, Toon Link, Diddy and Wolf are just...

*shudders

They are monsters.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

What? Wind Waker didn't suck, that game was a beautiful work of art!

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Yay, Olimar is good! But Mario, Nooooo.

don't put so much credence into the opinions of one man... most of us think that mario is better in brawl than he was in melee

 

[KingMak]

I'm glad to see Samus still up top, but from the looks of videos, ZSS looks a lot better than you said. Anyways, nice job.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I'm glad to see Samus still up top, but from the looks of videos, ZSS looks a lot better than you said. Anyways, nice job.

I will give samus the fact that she's a tank and so, is hard to kill, but she's lost a lot of offensive power... ZSS is really good, but has a STEEP learning curve.


I wouldn't put either up top... they seem decidedly mid.

 

[KingMak]

Offensive power including ALL attacks, or just ranged attacks or melee attacks? Because I know that her projectiles have been confirmed to be a bit less powerful, but I was hoping her smashes would still have about the same power. As for ZSS, I'm only hoping she plays a bit like Samus does, just with ought the projectiles.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

well... all her attacks that make her cannon shoot fire (dtilt, fair, Usmash) seems stronger.

But other than that I think she's only seen negs in strength... all projectiles got negged... bombs don't even detonate on contact anymore. Screw attack might be better for attacking now... but it doesn't give near as much air now.

I haven't done side by side comparisons, so I don't know what moves have been negged and which have been completely untouched... but all her nifty tricks are gone now... she really isn't NEAR as threatening... my sonic still hates her though, since he can't KO anything anyway... much less a huge hunk of metal.

She's still not terrible... she's stil strong... but she's so SLOW that's a good part of offense... bein g able to attack QUICKLY... and she's terrible at that now.

As for ZSS, you REALLY have to get familiar with which moves to use where because they are very situational... she's not near as intuitive as powersuit samus, she's weaker, lighter and has worse recovery overall.... but my GOD she's faster... overall... I'd say ZSS is the better of the two... but if you aren't comfortable with her.... she'll be terrible for you.

 

[KingMak]

Guess I'll have to give my old maiden a try. If I'm not maining with her, I don't know who else. I'm just going to have to get used to her. Thanks for the help, btw.

Oh, and one more thing. Do you know anything about bomb jump recovery? It may be listed somewhere else on these forums but I can't seem to find it.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Guess I'll have to give my old maiden a try. If I'm not maining with her, I don't know who else. I'm just going to have to get used to her. Thanks for the help, btw.

Oh, and one more thing. Do you know anything about bomb jump recovery? It may be listed somewhere else on these forums but I can't seem to find it.

okay... I don't want to give you the wrong impression, her standard attacks are really all about just as strong.... it's just that she is so much slower now that thay aren't as likely to connect making her offensively worse.

her bomb jump is not very useful now... especially since recovering is so easy on the whole now.

but she can still bomb jump... it just doesn't give her as much boost.... and I think the timing is different too... but, like I said, it doesn't have much practical application.

 

[KingMak]

okay... I don't want to give you the wrong impression, her standard attacks are really all about just as strong.... it's just that she is so much slower now that thay aren't as likely to connect making her offensively worse.

her bomb jump is not very useful now... especially since recovering is so easy on the whole now.

but she can still bomb jump... it just doesn't give her as much boost.... and I think the timing is different too... but, like I said, it doesn't have much practical application.

Ah, alright. Well, yeah. I mean I was expecting slight debuff, but I was sort of getting the idea that she blew now. Sounds cool though. But I guess I really just have to play the game for myself to see.

 

[ScythedBlade]

Failure for Montage to realize that Donkey Kong's Final Smash hits the entire stage and is actually one of the best final smashes in the game ... of course, how would a noob know that?

Anyway, everything aside, when you use Donkey Kong's Final Smash, just hit like A every time his hand slams the drum ... it increases its range from normal reach to ... pretty much the whole entire big platorm ..

 

[listentomook]

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=3930799#post3930799

DK's final smash is definitely one of the best fool take a note.

wow beaten to the chase...o well heres the link still

 

[Dry Bones]

i dont believe that the characters final smashes were taken strongly into consideration when these character ratings were formed. he just mentioned DK's final smash as a passing comment, whether it is really that good or not

 

[AlphaDragoon2002]

They probably didn't count characters' FS in the rating as they will likely be turned off in tournaments.

Just saying.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Ah, alright. Well, yeah. I mean I was expecting slight debuff, but I was sort of getting the idea that she blew now. Sounds cool though. But I guess I really just have to play the game for myself to see.

it's kinda somewhere in the middle.... she recieved a noticable neg, but it, nt quite a nerf.


and yeah, I doubt he took Final Smashes into condsideration, otherwise sonic would own... but like I've been saying... this ranking system has a lot of holes in it. It's not completely wrong, but there are a lot of mistakes in his rankings because he's not equally skilled withall the characters... the space animals, sonic, meta knight an some others are worse than what he says, and some, like mario, are better.... but I digress... go to the charactter boards for better assessments.

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

^Metaknight can chase foes up and out of the ceiling. Does he really need a kill move if he can literally chase foes out into the ceiling for the kill?

Likewise Sonic can REALLY gimp people's recovery if they're not Peach/Pit/Metaknight. Tried some today and man, the guys with swords get no luck against Sonic if he gets them off the stage. Spam fair, knock them far enough to waste their second jump, edgehog, and bam, pwnt to a crisp.

I'm telling you, having knockout strength isn't as important now in 1v1s, Sonic is simply screwed in FFAs with no items. I'm not saying Sonic is top tier material (lol fail priority), but being the worst is straight up laughable.

 

[supersonicdjs]

Sonic will be mastered by me. I have played every Sonic Game....And it will pay off!

"Now I'll show you!!!"


Ill edgehog with the hedgehog!

 

[ROOOOY!]

Well done on putting this together.
Though the news on Falcon is distressing.

 

[Prince Karo]

What method was used to determine the weight class of characters? (what move was used to test their K.O resistance) It seems like every time someone does a weight test, the results come out different..

..also, are you sure Dedede's weight is correct? Everyone else who has done tests lists him as one of the heaviest characters.. I should think he'd be more then a 5.

 

[ROOOOY!]

What method was used to determine the weight class of characters? (what move was used to test their K.O resistance) It seems like every time someone does a weight test, the results come out different..

..also, are you sure Dedede's weight is correct? Everyone else who has done tests lists him as one of the heaviest characters.. I should think he'd be more then a 5.

Kirby's inhale and spit shows weight the best. Heavier characters recieve more damage. Dedede and Bowser, along with one other character I forget, recieve the most.

 

[Prince Karo]

Kirby's inhale and spit shows weight the best. Heavier characters recieve more damage. Dedede and Bowser, along with one other character I forget, recieve the most.

Yeah, I know, this guys weight rankings are way messed up, that's why I asked him what method he used.. (Pikachu heavier then Wario? wtf?)

 

[Dinivan]

Just curious.

I'm curious about snake's rating, mostly for it's ambiguousness. While I don't have a copy of the game, what I've seen has led me to a similar conclusion (albeit for possibly different and more superficial reasons) -- that, either Snake will stay a bad-*** zoner with monstrous attacks and a solid recovery, or he'll get wickedly outclassed as everyone is both more adept at controlling their characters and more cognizant of Snake's shenanigans. Sort of an Ike-syndrome, if you will.

I'd really love to hear your impressions on him, as the character-specific forums can be kind of useless for unbiased info (Have you seen a single sub-forum that doesn't have a thread claiming that so-and-so is actually going to be high tier?)

Sorry for a post that's actually pertinent to your thread and not just arguing that my proclaimed main is the best character and that Kirby is in fact heterosexual.

 

[Mr Mattastic]

1. Why do I have to read other posts? I read the first post, I think that's good enough.

2. No. Kirby is NOT a homo. Why sould you even say that?

He's a giant pink testicle that loves stars and rainbows and sucking in guys whole.

 

[Foe]

He's a giant pink testicle that loves stars and rainbows and sucking in guys whole.

If you are a pervert, that's one way of thinking.

Round ball = testicle? He also sucks in girls. Are astronomers all homo? (excluding the rainbows, lol..)

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

^Metaknight can chase foes up and out of the ceiling. Does he really need a kill move if he can literally chase foes out into the ceiling for the kill?

Likewise Sonic can REALLY gimp people's recovery if they're not Peach/Pit/Metaknight. Tried some today and man, the guys with swords get no luck against Sonic if he gets them off the stage. Spam fair, knock them far enough to waste their second jump, edgehog, and bam, pwnt to a crisp.

I'm telling you, having knockout strength isn't as important now in 1v1s, Sonic is simply screwed in FFAs with no items. I'm not saying Sonic is top tier material (lol fail priority), but being the worst is straight up laughable.

what you are saying isn't exactly commonplace.

sure, they have the ability to do these things, but a lot of people have the ability to get around them too

 

[davidcaspian]

After reading the list and playing the game, I've got to say they've got some things right and other things terribly wrong. They are mostly wrong about Falcon, who is, in my opinion, viable for High Tier again. His Down Air still spikes, so I don't know why they said that it didn't, and in some stages (Bridge of Eldrin for example) it will send people off to the side of stage.

But they are right about things like Lucario, Luigi, and Peach.

It's a good list, but it's got too many things wrong to be considered official by any means (and judging by the title, they're not presenting it as official anyway.)

 

[Gum]

Oh man. So after getting a chance to play the game again, I have determined that Zero Suit Samus (ZS) its most certainly viable for top tier or at least in the top 5. She ***** Marth and does very well against Shiek, Fox, Wolf, Diddy, and Toon Link, all of which have been deemed excellent. Her range is awesome and her air game is above average. She has a lot of great approaches with the use of her stun gun, and her keep away game is really good with the use of her forward B, stun gun, and bair.

Her recovering is AMAZING. She has the longest tether recovery range, and she doesnt even need to use it. The fact that her down B + kick has priority and it spikes means that trying to edge guard her proves fatal at times. Not to mention the fact that she gets TWO down B's in the air. This means excellent mind games off the stage.

Literally all her moves are useful, including her neutral air and forward smash. Her down smash stuns significantly, which can end matches very well. Her up tilt is comparable to Shiek's down smash in melee in that it hits all around her and has great priority, plus it is quick and sets up for combos.

Speaking of combos, hers are recockulous. Lots of damage potential very fast, with good KO potential to follow up, plus excellent chase and edge guard ability.

I have found my main.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

After reading the list and playing the game, I've got to say they've got some things right and other things terribly wrong. They are mostly wrong about Falcon, who is, in my opinion, viable for High Tier again. His Down Air still spikes, so I don't know why they said that it didn't, and in some stages (Bridge of Eldrin for example) it will send people off to the side of stage.

But they are right about things like Lucario, Luigi, and Peach.

It's a good list, but it's got too many things wrong to be considered official by any means (and judging by the title, they're not presenting it as official anyway.)

I think he must have just failed at it, but yes, falcon's dair still spikes... it just doesn't ALWAYS spike... you have to sweetspot it now.

and, no, falcon is still pretty bad from all I've seen.

 

[Lunaretic]

A suggestion for a +.5 or +1.0 for pit, his dB blocks melee strikes as well, which by itself isn't amazing, but since he can use it in the air as well, during the right situations he can actually block and punish some aerials or cover himself from heavy projectile spam when moving back towards the stage. Not huge advantage, but it's certainly unique and useful in the right situations.

 

[BentoBox]

Alphabetical order please.

 

[dmbrandon]

Alphabetical order please.

ummm... They're in order of the list in the game.

 

[Aleol]

I honestly don't think Link is that terrible. I do realize that this is your opinion, but try playing as him again. If you'll notice, he's terribly faster, his f-smash is stronger, his u-smash and tilt will actually hit every time and have crazy KOing power, his gale boomerang is actually great for comboing into since it geneally halts the opposing char, his bow is a helluva lot faster and stronger, his bombs are also a helluva lot more powerful, you can actually hit with the fair now, and his ^B still has most of the distance still with it along with a ton of horizontal distance. He is better in 4-vs-4 than 1-on-1 against faster characters, and aginst big characters he is a combo beast, if used correctly. I've played as him in Brawl, but no videos, cause I didn't own it. My opinion may be a little biased though :/

Other than that, I agree with this

 

[ShortAssassin]

How could you have given Link a bad review. I do realize that this is your opinion, but try playing as him again. If you'll notice, he's terribly faster, his f-smash is stronger, his u-smash and tilt will actually hit every time and have crazy KOing power, his gale boomerang is actually great for comboing into since it geneally halts the opposing char, his bow is a helluva lot faster and stronger, his bombs are also a helluva lot more powerful, you can actually hit with the fair now, and his ^B still has most of the distance still with it along with a ton of horizontal distance. He is a combo beast, if used correctly. I've played as him in Brawl, but no videos, cause I didn't own it. My opinion may be a little biased though :/

Other than that, I agree with this

Improvement from melee does not = good in Brawl.

 

[Aleol]

Improvement from melee does not = good in Brawl.

I clearly stated how he was good in Brawl, and frankly, I wasn't thinking about improvement from melee, just defending mah boi

 

[TheMagicalKuja]

For Ether/the guys in your Montage group who main Sonic

Take a look at the guide in my sig. If you guys have any strategies that make Sonic good please post them there, as well as heed the stuff I've listed. My head hurts from facepalming everytime Sonic doesn't edgeguard/try to kill somebody with his unreliable smashes.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

How could you have given Link a bad review. I do realize that this is your opinion, but try playing as him again. If you'll notice, he's terribly faster, his f-smash is stronger, his u-smash and tilt will actually hit every time and have crazy KOing power, his gale boomerang is actually great for comboing into since it geneally halts the opposing char, his bow is a helluva lot faster and stronger, his bombs are also a helluva lot more powerful, you can actually hit with the fair now, and his ^B still has most of the distance still with it along with a ton of horizontal distance. He is better in 4-vs-4 than 1-on-1 against faster characters, and aginst big characters he is a combo beast, if used correctly. I've played as him in Brawl, but no videos, cause I didn't own it. My opinion may be a little biased though :/

Other than that, I agree with this

I tried link for a little while... he's just not great. His up+B... and his Down+Air, hi best two moves seem rather negged.... and it's not like he receieved exceptional buffs to cover for them either... though I do enjoy the bigger kick to his bombs...


and I completely agree with Kuja about sonic. He's not as great as you are touting him.

 

[Aleol]

I tried link for a little while... he's just not great. His up+B... and his Down+Air, hi best two moves seem rather negged.... and it's not like he receieved exceptional buffs to cover for them either... though I do enjoy the bigger kick to his bombs...

His down air still has the same if not more KOing power, and his Up B is still a get-off-me move. Maybe the guys I played just weren't that good, but I won every time (well, a few times the pit won) I played... with link no less. they've managed to balance oout his long-range weapons with swordplay, and using the two to combo is what makes Brawl Link. and the reason his boomerang lost some power is because his arrows gained some.

okay, I got a little carried away with the down air. my memory may not be that great, so I don't remember the stats of all his attacks, I just know he's powerful. everyone else I saw play with Link sucked

 

[Qinopio]

The tiny damage that Lucario does is sort of keeping me from wanting to use him. His tilts do like 4% when he's at low damage, and even when he's at 200, they're just approaching the damage that other characters do. I admit that he does become pretty good at high percentages, and sometimes seems to cheat death compared with how floaty he is, but I'm having trouble putting him with the majority of other characters.

Also regarding Ness, I think his back air isn't nerfed in power at all - it even seems a bit buffed to me. You might want to check that out again. His grab range is also improved - especially his dashgrab, which is fantastic.

Kirby is moderately strong now. His tilts and smashes are all solid if not spectacular. His down-A tilt is just as good as Melee, great for poking people fairly safely, especially against tall characters. His hammer and stone are significantly buffed, and you can't shieldgrab the stone anymore because it has a small area effect. It's faster and kills, but still hard to hit with it. He's not super light like before. I'd put him around a 7 or 7.5. Solid.

This has been a little tough for me to test - how are Ness and Lucas' PK Thunder working out for you as projectiles as opposed to recovery? I know Lucas' can do upwards of 35% if you catch someone in it, but I think it will usually get airdodged.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

His down air still has the same if not more KOing power, and his Up B is still a get-off-me move. Maybe the guys I played just weren't that good, but I won every time (well, a few times the pit won) I played... with link no less. they've managed to balance oout his long-range weapons with swordplay, and using the two to combo is what makes Brawl Link

okay, I got a little carried away with the down air. my memory may not be that great, so I don't remember the stats of all his attacks, I just know he's powerful. everyone else I saw play with Link sucked

his Up B has FAR les power and no longer has a psuedo spike.

His Dair is meaker I think, and even if it's not, he no longer bounces and without L-Cancelling, he's prone way too long.

His projectiles all got better, but that's really about it.... his recovery is so bad.... and he doesn't make up for it anywhere else.