Not a Tier List: Montage's Character ratings: New Info: Meta, Sonic, Snake, Lucario

[wodan46]

First off, DK's final smash is the best in the game. See below video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7UvTc4jWEc


Yoshi is probably the character who has been most buffed from Melee, and should be much higher.

Here are videos of some of his improvements
Yoshi's Improved Grab and Neutral B
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XA5Gd7oCdBQ

Yoshi's Improved Up B
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2mMgTZpW71E&feature=related

Yoshi's Improved Side B
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5gtD0nD_M

Also, Yoshi's Down B does damage when going up as well as down.

Yoshi is much improved, and should at least be middle tier, his main disadvantage is crappy vertical recovery, other than that, he has good Aerials, Smashes, and Specials. So long as he plays it safe, Yoshi should be effective.

 

[dmbrandon]

Excuse me for sayhing this, but if you're going to rate the characters, please have the decentcy to rate EVERY character, INCLUDING Kirby!

If you're going to post in my thread, at least have decency to read other people's posts first.

I don't have to do anything, and Kirby is a homo. ^_^

First off, DK's final smash is the best in the game. See below video:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7UvTc4jWEc


Yoshi is probably the character who has been most buffed from Melee, and should be much higher.

Here are videos of some of his improvements
Yoshi's Improved Grab and Neutral B
http://youtube.com/watch?v=XA5Gd7oCdBQ

Yoshi's Improved Up B
http://youtube.com/watch?v=2mMgTZpW71E&feature=related

Yoshi's Improved Side B
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Yy5gtD0nD_M

Also, Yoshi's Down B does damage when going up as well as down.

Yoshi is much improved, and should at least be middle tier, his main disadvantage is crappy vertical recovery, other than that, he has good Aerials, Smashes, and Specials. So long as he plays it safe, Yoshi should be effective.

None of this is important. His biggest disadvantage is that he has one good approach, and with diminishing returns, he's not going to have an easy time.

Edit: About dk's FS: The fact is, the FS were deemed broken. They change smash in a way that is nfitting to the series. all in all, it's not important to me.

 

[wodan46]

What approach are you speaking of?

 

[Lantz]

The lack of Kirby is rather disturbing.


Otherwise, those are some pretty well-thought out opinions right thar. Hope you can exploit more points for specific characters.

 

[OfficeManiac070]

i know right, i just hope hes better then melee. He was my favorite character in 64, and he is very hard to use in melee, but i still tried. i am glad sakurai changed his dash move though.

 

[slimpyman]

haha why must we all keep putting melee in the discussion. brawls games engine is not like melee. therefore its called brawl. no one is like their melee counterpart in any way.

 

[Lantz]

So your telling me that Fox's blaster doesn't shoot anymore?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

What's wrong with that?

the fact that you can't relly do it. It's just too hard to edgeguard. Jiggly is about the only competitor who still has decent off the stage game, and even her's isn't great since it's been reduced to her fair only.


And most def the space animals aren't as good as before. The threads circulating around may lead you to believe otherwise, but that's probably only because everyone and their mother played fox or falco in melee, so everyone's, by default, better with space animals. but I really haven't been wowed by anything I see out of them.

 

[dmbrandon]

the fact that you can't relly do it. It's just too hard to edgeguard. Jiggly is about the only competitor who still has decent off the stage game, and even her's isn't great since it's been reduced to her fair only.


And most def the space animals aren't as good as before. The threads circulating around may lead you to believe otherwise, but that's probably only because everyone and their mother played fox or falco in melee, so everyone's, by default, better with space animals. but I really haven't been wowed by anything I see out of them.

Your opinion is your own, but allow me to reply.

1. The spaces are still too good. ESPECIALLY WOLF. Just because you haven't faced a good Falco, doesn't mean he's bad.

2. That thing about the off the stage is almost as ridiculous as you saying jiggs Bair isn't good for edgegaurding.

 

[quinn95]

Great guide!

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Something worth noting about Ness/Lucas: Their fsmashes reflect projectiles for pretty much the entire animation this time around.

 

[dmbrandon]

Something worth noting about Ness/Lucas: Their fsmashes reflect projectiles for pretty much the entire animation this time around.

Old'd. This is already discussed towards page 20, or so. Thanks for the attempt, though! ^_^

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Your opinion is your own, but allow me to reply.

1. The spaces are still too good. ESPECIALLY WOLF. Just because you haven't faced a good Falco, doesn't mean he's bad.

2. That thing about the off the stage is almost as ridiculous as you saying jiggs Bair isn't good for edgegaurding.

I'm a jiggs mainer from melee, let me tell you her bair is seriously nerfed... it has almost no knockback now. I should know.

you can keep your spacies if you want, but I still won't be convinced that they are the best until the game hits american shores for a bit and the teir list agrees with you... and I severely doubt that it will, though all the old fox mainers will probably try him anyway

 

[dmbrandon]

I'm a jiggs mainer from melee, let me tell you her bair is seriously nerfed... it has almost no knockback now. I should know.

you can keep your spacies if you want, but I still won't be convinced that they are the best until the game hits american shores for a bit and the teir list agrees with you... and I severely doubt that it will, though all the old fox mainers will probably try him anyway

I mained jiggs for like, 5 months. Before I switched to GW! He bair is fine for edge guarding.

Even still, the fair was always better for it.

 

[Sandwich]

I hope you try to main kirby in the near future D=

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I mained jiggs for like, 5 months. Before I switched to GW! He bair is fine for edge guarding.

Even still, the fair was always better for it.

A former Jiggs main, and yet you won't even try Brawl Kirby? =O

I know they're different characters, but Brawl Kirby just reeks of Melee Jiggs. Especially in the air

 

[dmbrandon]

A former Jiggs main, and yet you won't even try Brawl Kirby? =O

I know they're different characters, but Brawl Kirby just reeks of Melee Jiggs. Especially in the air

I don't like Kirby, I never said I wouldn't play him. I have been playing him, I just don't think I'm fit to rate him.

Also, everyone needs to let it the hell go. Just go to the Kirby boards.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Old'd. This is already discussed towards page 20, or so. Thanks for the attempt, though! ^_^

Just making sure. XD

By the way, am I right in saying that Lucario's down b counter has less startup time than Marth's, or is it about the same? Because it seems to be almost instantaneous.

Speaking of Lucario, I'm glad you finally propped him up to a fair rating. But I think you should revise that bit about his tilts. Lucario's up tilt is incredible. It covers him completely, is very fast and juggles at low % and sets up for combos.

Also, are you sure about his Nair being good? I've seen Lucario KO with his Bair, but the Nair supposedly has some property that prevents you from attacking for a while afterwards. Did you get these mixed up?

 

[dmbrandon]

Just making sure. XD

By the way, am I right in saying that Lucario's down b counter has less startup time than Marth's, or is it about the same? Because it seems to be almost instantaneous.

It might be faster, but the fact is, if you miss, you're **** screwed!

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

It might be faster, but the fact is, if you miss, you're **** screwed!

The idea is to only use it on obvious moves then. Like Pikachu's thunder as he tries to juggle you, or Mr. Game and Watch's key from above.

By the way, I edited my earlier post, can you answer my question about Lucario's nair?

Also: about Ness. His Fthrow still does set knockback like in Melee, it's just been increased. It can't KO on most normal stages, wheras his back throw KOs at higher percents. You might want to revise that bit about his fthrow being better than Melee backthrow.

I love the rating you gave Snake, btw. XD Also, Metaknight seems to have climbed out of mediocrity and into the leet zone, lol.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

omnigamer is releasing a kirby vid soon... so maybe you can use that? I mean Omni was always an awsome kirby. He's tryin metaknight and dedede too... but um... well... metaknight doesn't seem like he's gonna break outta mediocrity anytime soon.

and as for the jiggs thing. Her Brawl Bair is nothing to her melee bair. and her brawl fair is even stronger than her melee fair. also, her Uair's knockback has been cut severely. On top of all this, her aerial mobility is greatly decreased... it's in the hands of wario now. Pound is also less now than it was in melee. Both for recovery and for attack,

For a character that thrives in the air, they really reduced Jiggly's aerial dominance and versitility.

And I've been maining jiggly for years. I know that her back air was her goto for kills in melee, not her forawrd air.

it seems that with every new post you are making your opinions less and less credible. There's really nothing about your opinion that makes it any better than anyone else's. When I'm telling you things that you are saying are wrong, it's about characters that either I, or someone I know has experience with. So I'm finding what you say hard to swallow when in all my experience, you are flat out wrong. While, true, some of what you say might be correct because it's not about characters I'm familiar with. There's more times that what you say is just not correct.

Anyone who plays mario in melee, and has played him in brawl knows he's been buffed.
Anyone who played jiggly in melee and has tried her in brawl would have to agree that her air game is negged in the ways that I've mentioned.


I understand that this thread is ultimately going to give a onesided opinion, but the problem is that you are giving those who don't have acess to the game a horribly skewed perception of how it will be.

I'm not saying I'm the alpha and the omega either, but with the amount of time I've logged, I can't possibly see how you are any better a judge of the characters than I would be. And when what you say differs so greatly so often, I'm led to believe that you simply don't know what you are doing with some characters.

Besides all this, it could be different once it reaches american shores legitimately... heck, they made some balancing changes between Melee and PAL melee.

 

[dmbrandon]

it seems that with every new post you are making your opinions less and less credible. There's really nothing about your opinion that makes it any better than anyone else's. When I'm telling you things that you are saying are wrong, it's about characters that either I, or someone I know has experience with. So I'm finding what you say hard to swallow when in all my experience, you are flat out wrong. While, true, some of what you say might be correct because it's not about characters I'm familiar with. There's more times that what you say is just not correct..

Sorry if I don't feel like repeating myself twenty some-odd times on the same subject. I don't know you, how you play, who you play against, etc. So to me, the opinions you have have weak grounds. Let me see vids of you playing, so I can make a better judgment of your skill.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Sorry if I don't feel like repeating myself twenty some-odd times on the same subject. I don't know you, how you play, who you play against, etc. So to me, the opinions you have have weak grounds. Let me see vids of you playing, so I can make a better judgment of your skill.

I have no vids.. I mean... omni has a vid of me in the intro to his kirby vid playing jiggs... but it was the first match I used jiggs in brawl so I did rather horribly. And it was brinstar which didn't really help.


If you want an honest assessment of my skill, I'm not even as good as Pyro, so I'm not going to win major competitions or anything, but when we play, I CAN beat him, so I'm not terribly far behind... my sonic's better than his sonic (and I still say sonic isn't great despite that) And I played a fairly respectible jiggs in melee... at least, respectable enough to destroy lots of falcos (not to difficult) and to actually stand a chance against fox. Which is why I say the space animals are a lot worse off. Even people who ould beat me with space animals in melee can't do it in brawl. Though, I will admit, Falco's lasers vs. airborn fallen aponents is broken. But that seems like something unintentional to me... maybe it won't be in the US version?

also... since you have no kirby, Omni was the BEST kirby in melee... so here's a brawwl Kirby vid by him... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRoL-_kk0uk
Maybe you can use this to learn how to play him well... or something.... anyway there it is (and apparently my jigs is at the end of the vid too.... it's odd I'm not playing jiggs much but he puts 2 jiggs vids of me in there)

 

[TOBIYA]

**** i didnt expect alot of these ratings.
i like how game and watch has new food projectiles.

 

[Brawlmatt202]

If you're going to post in my thread, at least have decency to read other people's posts first.

I don't have to do anything, and Kirby is a homo. ^_^

1. Why do I have to read other posts? I read the first post, I think that's good enough.

2. No. Kirby is NOT a homo. Why sould you even say that?

 

[Dry Bones]

although i agree with practically everything dmbrandon said in his post, i find it strange that he mostly has positive things to say about Bowser, and yet he only got 5/10... maybe he deserves further attention? =)

 

[Lord Viper]

What you got against Kirby? He's awesome.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

although i agree with practically everything dmbrandon said in his post, i find it strange that he mostly has positive things to say about Bowser, and yet he only got 5/10... maybe he deserves further attention? =)

well... it's kinda because it's almost all positive changes from melee... but he's still not top teir.

 

[dmbrandon]

1. Why do I have to read other posts? I read the first post, I think that's good enough.

2. No. Kirby is NOT a homo. Why sould you even say that?

Because all these topics were covered.

2. One, he doesn't have his own powers in any game, besides using other people's. And badly.

although i agree with practically everything dmbrandon said in his post, i find it strange that he mostly has positive things to say about Bowser, and yet he only got 5/10... maybe he deserves further attention? =)

He will get more attention. We're trying a new rating system soon, and will lower ALL characters, and use 3-6 more.

What you got against Kirby? He's awesome.

Like, I'm in awe of how lame he is? You know who's cool? j.j.abrams. If you can show me why Kirby is cooler than j.j., then maybe I'll rate him.

 

[MysticKenji]

1. Why do I have to read other posts?

You've been here for a year, you should know the answer to this by now >_>

 

[ConeZone]

this is interesting, very interested in lucas and diddy, i didnt expect them to be so good haha

 

[Cocoashadow]

Yay, Olimar is good! But Mario, Nooooo.

 

[Dogenzaka]

Kirby:
I do not play kirby, and don't want to. I encourage others to give me feedback. I'll take it into consideration, and maybe play him down the line. Sorry Kirby fans.
Rating: ?/10

Maybe if you weren't so fcking biased with a statement such as this, I would actually be able to take your list seriously.

 

[dmbrandon]

Maybe if you weren't so fcking biased with a statement such as this, I would actually be able to take your list seriously.

LAST TIME I SAY THIS:

I didn't rate him BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE HIM, THERE****INGFORE, I AVOIDED BEING BIASED>

Check the thread before posting, or be ignored from now on.

 

[Barrakketh]

Maybe if you weren't so fcking biased with a statement such as this, I would actually be able to take your list seriously.

I'm positive that Diem doesn't care whether or not you take his list seriously. He is providing the list as a courtesy for those who want some idea of what the characters are like beyond what they see in videos. Sometimes his initial impressions are wrong (in part or in whole). For example, his original Sonic entry reads:

[...]Has wonderful priority[...]

while an update says:

[...]priority is lame[...]

His list isn't the final say on the characters, and if you like a specific character enough you're not going to be swayed by what he posts and will play them anyway.

Spoiler

After coming into this thread to post something inflammatory, of course.

If you don't like his opinion, ignore it instead of posting nonconstructive crap that people have to filter out while reading through this thread.

Diem doesn't like Kirby, so he didn't rate them. We all have characters that we find annoying/lame (and that isn't restricted to Smash, either). I don't like Ice Climbers, and the only time you'll see me playing them is to unlock things. That doesn't make me ZOMG biased.

 

[§leepy God]

What you got against Kirby? He's awesome.

lol, you should had read all that he said, I thought things like this you don't like. XD


Back on Track: I like how Ike is properley used. Thank you for this thread topic creater.

 

[KrisV]

I find this thread informative and helpful. Yeah, I'm sure there are things I'll disagree with once I finally get the game in my hands, but it's nice to get something like this anyway to give a general idea. And of course, it's always funny to watch people get upset over someone else's opinion on the internet, right? Right?

 

[Kirby M.D.]

LAST TIME I SAY THIS:

I didn't rate him BECAUSE I DON'T LIKE HIM, THERE****INGFORE, I AVOIDED BEING BIASED>

Check the thread before posting, or be ignored from now on.

Uh, dmbrandon. Not playing a character because you don't like them is rather biased.
Just saying man. I'm glad you did this, but you really need to work on internet people skills. If I didn't know better, I'd think you were a jabbering idiot and/or troll with MPD.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I'm wondering about the new rating system of yours. Are you saying that characters who deserve a 9 or 8.5 will be decreased as well?

If there are no characters who score 10/10 or close to it, then what's the point of having a 10 rating? Logically, the best character should be 10/10...

 

[Chro]

I'm sad to see that you find Toon Link and Diddy, both of whom annoy me very much, got such high ratings... at least Ike and Wolf (mains I decided on) got good marks... nice work.