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NorCal Melee Power Rankings - Summer '15 Update - In Sickness and In Filth

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
I don't think anyone ever assumed Isai wasn't best. Some people have accused otherwise. Just clearing that up.

In my case, I have not been playing Smash very long, and I don't know much of the players outside my area, aside from very well known players. For this reason I admit that most people probably have more info than me. This is why I never assumed to think that Isai was second to anyone. Period. Personally, however, I'm not sure I agree with the list being based on pure ability.
 

ender

open your parachute
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
8,027
We had an incredible amount of drama bull**** when the power rankings first came out. Im sad that this had to come up again. The list is the agreed upon opinion of players throughout norcal. If you dont like the opinions whether because of illogical rankings or whatever else, then make your own.

now lets all sing songs in this thread until the new list is up.
 

whiteboyninja

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
550
Location
Milpitas CA (bay area)
i know everyone on this knows that isai is, well, the undisputed best smasher. HOWEVER, people are pointing out that some people were taken off the list or lost a few places because of tournament inactivity.

Geo is a great smasher, and a really cool guy. However, he's sort of in the 'hot spot' on the list where there are probably 20 people good enough to fill the list from 15-25, and its only fair to put the 10 people who have *best* proven themselves recently. For example, nemesis, who is not on the list, has proven himself tremendously in the past 4 biweeklies, including beating geo. Does this mean Nemesis is better than Geo? Maybe. it isnt guarenteed. Does this mean Geo isnt worthy of being on the list? Not by a long shot. However, there are too many people proving themselves to be 15-25 material to allow someone who is pretty much assumed, but not proven, to be the correct holder of that spot.

Isai, on the other hand, has a different story. He has been one of USA biggest smashers for many years, longer than most of us have played competitive smash. He is known to have beaten just about each and every single US pro, where King and SS have not. Until King or SS (or lunin for that matter, maybe even others) show up to huge tournaments and beat people such as ken, chu, ect, they have not proven themselves to be better than isai.

Delphiki you have a point that isai seems to have an "unfair double standard", and i completly understand your reasoning. However, isai has proven himself to a level more than anyone on that list has by a significant margin, and has in a way, earned his double standard.
 
Joined
Jun 27, 2005
Messages
10,463
Location
the west
Isai proves himself while trying or not when he goes to tourneys. Probably more than anyone in NorCal. I wouldn't call that unfair. If the smashers right behind Isai had as good of a tourney history, they'd get this "unfair advantage" too. Unlike Isai, Geo hasn't had a tourney history that's so great that it maintains his top 20 spot even.
Leave it to the panelists I say. =P
<Doesn't even live in NorCal>
 

nublet06

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 23, 2006
Messages
1,781
Location
Sherman Oaks, CA (Palmdale 4 lyfe)
i think some of you guys are forgetting isai in doubles. its a joke how amazing he is. and its the one area of smash he never seems to give up in. maybe he jsut likes doubles more....or maybe he doesnt want to let down his teamates. NEARLY every tournament he goes to. first place in doubles. lol yeah move him down a spot.
 

Ian

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 22, 2006
Messages
636
Location
Sunnyvale(NorCal)
well I was thinking... if Ken moved here...isai would still be in first right? becuase he beats ken...but what if PC moved here? would Isai still be first? PC can prolly beat isai just becuase of character disadvantages =o
 

Zoap

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
3,430
Location
California
you know ian what if aliens land on the planet and they 4 stock all of us, they should be #1, or what if I became a superhero like superman, could i be #1 then. Maybe...
 

Tomi-X

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,027
Location
Sacramento, CA
We should prolly just give up all hypothetical questions until they become reality. I also agree with SuperRad and the ninja on just about everything they said. And, now that I think about it, tis true, Isai is probably the lord of Norcal. Not that we'd need a vote or anything. Especially since, with the exeception of King/Mew2King's win over Isai/Ken, there is no one in Norcal who has ever defeated the elites of smash, except for Isai. In fact, the only player that I see having a chance of doing so in the near future is SilentSpectre. And King of course, but that goes without saying. But like I said, no more hypothetical talk. I think our only concern should be the present, and, at the present, Isai is clearly, by a longshot, the best player of Norcal. Look at all the commas, people. :D
 

KILLA.FOR.CASH.

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
2,916
Location
Fullerton, Socal
you know ian what if aliens land on the planet and they 4 stock all of us, they should be #1, or what if I became a superhero like superman, could i be #1 then. Maybe...
LOL!


Isai shouldnt even be on the NCPR .. he should have his own list with his captain falcon being #1 and his other characters below that.. and only isai qualifies for the list.. yup.
 

The Game II

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
2,018
Location
Northern California
OK, so many of you know where I work 5 days a week, so I'm coming from the perspective as someone who has to do a top-10 ranking 40 weeks out of the year and have 18,000 people call, e-mail and yell to me in person that I'm wrong/right. It's my job to do a ranking for my work.

I've told Danny a lot of what I'm going to say already, and he agreed/disagreed with parts.

Before I begin, I want to say that the ranking system needs to be weekly. OK, so we all know THAT ain't happenin anytime soon.

But why does it need to be weekly (or even bi-weekly) IMO? It's easier to move people. If it's weekly, you're taking into account a person participating in as many as two tournaments. But since it's every month, you're taking into account as many as eight tournaments, and it's harder to move people.

I'll give an example. Four years ago, there was one volleyball team (Team A) CLEARLY BY FAR the best in the area. They were No. 1. Their rival (Team B) was a good second, nothing to brag about. But then the rival stunned the No. 1 team. So I did the obvious thing, move the top team down to No. 2. I received a SHIYET-LOAD of backlash. The coach even called me and went 20 MINUTES begging me to write a correction. She broke it down by stats, wins, players, point differential! She even went through the victory ladder (this team, who beat that team, who beat that team, who beat the No. 2 team; but said team never lost to us). I told the coach, "Sorry, but you're going to have to live with it. I'm a 'what have you done for me lately' kind of guy."

And the funny part is, two other publications did the same thing I did.

So what happened? Team A went 2-0 the following week, while Team B went (1-1). So, of course, I moved Team A back to No. 1, and they remained that way for the final five weeks of the season.

Now imagine if my rankings were monthly. Team A would have never moved from No. 1 because they went 8-1 that month, while Team B was 7-2.

Again, I KNOW there's no chance of a weekly ranking, but I'm just telling you why.

The other thing too is, what is the purpose of the ranking? I do a ranking for my newspaper because it's to give people an idea of who are the 10 hottest teams, and to stir some debate. Is this ranking here to stir debate or just tell people who are the top 25 players in six people's eyes, or both?

And another thing is, are the panelists worried they're going to lose friends (or Isaiah's frendship) because of this? If they are, then don't do it, or give the reins to someone else. Another example: my alma mater was fifth in my volleyball rankings at one point five years ago. Then they lost two in a row and I dropped them all the way to 10th. Then they went 1-1, the loss being to a scrub team. So I dropped them from the ranking and parents were pissed. Parents and alum were calling me saying "How dare you drop us, and YOU WENT TO OUR SCHOOL! Show some love for your own school!" I told them, the team has to beat more than a scrub team. The team went 3-0 the next week and they were back in, at 10th.

One newspaper in Santa Barbara started a top-five ranking but had a few people pissed at them, that they stopped, even though the rankings were OK. They had no backbone.

Now, I see that someone mentioned team competition, and it is great that Isaiah totals people in teams. Maybe it's time to account team competition. That, again is up to the panelists.

So, as far as Isaiah is concerned, I should say I really don't care either way, and I'll go 51 percent to leave him there. You leave him there, there's no question. You take him out, you create debate until the next listing is up.

However, if the panelists leave him at No. 1 with no means to EVER move him down, even if he never "does well" in another tournament, him being No. 1 is like a glass ceiling for the rest of Northern California. How many wins will ss or king need to overtake isaiah? 50? 100? 1,000?

btw, king with the best words so far.

--GCII
 

Scamp

Smash Master
BRoomer
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
4,344
Location
Berkeley
Dunno. It's just as easy to move people over a month than it is to move people over a week. Besides, if all it takes is one bad game/tourney to knock you off of a spot you've been holding for a long time...it kind of cheapens the rankings IMO.

Plus we don't play every week.


I'm not worried about losing friends. If you're going to be mad at me because you think I should have ranked you higher...I don't think I'd want to be your friend anyway.

I see where you're coming from, though. However I don't want smash rankings to be compared with sports. Sports has all kinds of money, sponsors, possible scholarships, people losing jobs because of poor performances, and so on. Smash rankings don't have anything like that so we don't really need (or maybe even want) a strict schedule.
 

NintendoKing

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
2,688
Location
Johnsville, Johntana
I totally own the genius of teams.

Scamp we should have a team off. We pick 6 people and alternate teaming with them and see who comes out winning the most matches. For the title Genius Of Teams. Come on Dave you know you want to.
 

Scamp

Smash Master
BRoomer
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
4,344
Location
Berkeley
I totally own the genius of teams.

Scamp we should have a team off. We pick 6 people and alternate teaming with them and see who comes out winning the most matches. For the title Genius Of Teams. Come on Dave you know you want to.
I'll totally take this challenge.

Although I don't know what you did to become #1 contender.

And if I win you have to buy me a Big Mac.
 

cavesonic13

Smash Lord
Joined
May 23, 2006
Messages
1,063
Location
Sacramento,CA
since you guys have the "Isai is too good" title on the forum, you guys should put that picture of him that show him and that says "Isai is too good" delphiki has seen i bet you guys have too! ^.^
 

SuperRad

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
4,965
Location
San Francisco, CA [Sometimes Santa Cruz]
The Game II:
The problem with moving Isai is that it cheapens the list. With something like Volleyball rankings its different, because often there isn't enough history to say that that one team is definitively better, and you have to go off of results. Isai has been around forever, and has beaten many of the top players. He is one of the few people that can beat Ken. He beat ChuDat at MLG Vegas 3 - 0. There is too much proof from the past to move him down because of his intense sandbagging at tournaments.
 

The Game II

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
2,018
Location
Northern California
The Game II:
The problem with moving Isai is that it cheapens the list. With something like Volleyball rankings its different, because often there isn't enough history to say that that one team is definitively better, and you have to go off of results. Isai has been around forever, and has beaten many of the top players. He is one of the few people that can beat Ken. He beat ChuDat at MLG Vegas 3 - 0. There is too much proof from the past to move him down because of his intense sandbagging at tournaments.
That was something else I was going to mention. In terms of going back, how far should the panelists go back? Post TG6, post BOMB3, post whatever? That is one of the advantages I have because I can always start with a fresh slate every season for every sport, but it's a disadvantage for the panel because now they have to account for whatever they feel like going back as far as, and so far, there's been no indication of how far back they're willing to go (I don't care how far back they go, I'm just mentioning it).

And I'd hate to use another sports analogy, but take into account the world golf rankings. It has a cutoff when computing who the top players are, I think it takes into account the performance of the last two years or 50 tournaments. So even if someone beat Tiger, eventually that win wouldn't matter; they'd have to beat Tiger a few more times for it to be relevant.

I told Danny I was going to try a Jeff Sagarin-line ranking to see where people would stand IF computers did it.

I like the discussion.

--GCII
 

Scamp

Smash Master
BRoomer
Joined
May 30, 2002
Messages
4,344
Location
Berkeley
Look, the panel is fine, and the system is fine. Just because a few people complain A LOT doesn't mean that there is a lot of complaining.

People are welcome to dispute whatever they want. I encourage this. But I don't like how people tend to take one post and make it seem like it's more of an opinion than it should be.


As for The Game: do you really start with a fresh slate every season for every sport? I don't know much about how rankings work in high school sports, but for all major college sports the teams have a ranking before the season even starts.

And don't get me started on the college football ranking system.
 

The Game II

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 5, 2004
Messages
2,018
Location
Northern California
As for The Game: do you really start with a fresh slate every season for every sport? I don't know much about how rankings work in high school sports, but for all major college sports the teams have a ranking before the season even starts.
Actually, yeah. Our first rankings come out two weeks after the sport begins, so we don't do Haven't-Played Rankings like college football. The only publication I know that does Haven't-Played Rankings is norcalpreps.com, and it's only for football and boys/girls basketball.

--GCII

EDIT: Zoap, I wanted to talk to you for the web site regarding the rankings tomorrow night, please contact me. thanks.
 

NintendoKing

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
2,688
Location
Johnsville, Johntana
Nah i pay my respects to good smashers.

Norcal has a warped perception of me. Aside from my joke posts and antics; I'm really a nice guy.

Only nubs think im ultra egoinflated.
 

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
Look, the panel is fine, and the system is fine. Just because a few people complain A LOT doesn't mean that there is a lot of complaining.

People are welcome to dispute whatever they want. I encourage this. But I don't like how people tend to take one post and make it seem like it's more of an opinion than it should be.
Yeah I agree, and there is always people that are going to be complaining no matter what we do with anyone on the list. I also encourage people to dispute things because it helps me look back at what I did with my list, and see if I have made the right decision. So I don't really have a problem with the arguments or anything really, so long as they don't get out of hand and start into a flame fest or something.

Yeah, I haven't been posting my two cents about this cuz for some reason my internet doesn't work =/. I don't know if I'm going to be able to be on to discuss the list tonight, but I can at least pm my list to Lunin or something, I'll see what I can do.;)
 

The King

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
681
This Just In! Questions of the Day!
"Is King the first NorCal smasher to hit level 70 in WoW?"
"Will this new development give him the extra oomph to surpass Isai on the upcoming revision to the NCPR?"
"Will Nintendoking surpass his record total of 1 point and make his debut into the rankings, where fame, fortune and thunderdome await him?"
"Will Sac Biweeklies be more fun than SJSU Biweeklies?"

All This And More, Coming Soon!

King Out
 

froz3ntear

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 16, 2006
Messages
533
Location
San Jose
lol. Your posts always make me laugh in quiet places like the library and class room. dam.n you king. *shakes fist*
 

SuperRad

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
4,965
Location
San Francisco, CA [Sometimes Santa Cruz]
This Just In! Questions of the Day!
"Is King the first NorCal smasher to hit level 70 in WoW?"
"Will this new development give him the extra oomph to surpass Isai on the upcoming revision to the NCPR?"
"Will Nintendoking surpass his record total of 1 point and make his debut into the rankings, where fame, fortune and thunderdome await him?"
"Will Sac Biweeklies be more fun than SJSU Biweeklies?"

All This And More, Coming Soon!

King Out
Bah, I'm only 67 =( =(

what race/class/server do you play?!
 

KevMoney

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
257
Location
HELL
This Just In! Questions of the Day!
"Is King the first NorCal smasher to hit level 70 in WoW?"
"Will this new development give him the extra oomph to surpass Isai on the upcoming revision to the NCPR?"
"Will Nintendoking surpass his record total of 1 point and make his debut into the rankings, where fame, fortune and thunderdome await him?"
"Will Sac Biweeklies be more fun than SJSU Biweeklies?"

All This And More, Coming Soon!

King Out
Most definitely! The sac biweeklies will be more fun.
 
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