• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

NorCal Melee Power Rankings - Summer '15 Update - In Sickness and In Filth

D

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
Sorry, I have to make this quick.

I see no plausible argument against rigid timeframes. We can at least agree on this single point.

Second: Simna, BTZO, Hyuga. You have all made your accusations. Now stop. There is no point to this. What can we do to improve the decision making process? I agree with Hyuga and BTZO in that rankings alone don't matter, it matters who you beat. Pros can easily be ranked below noobs if their matchups don't go in their favor.

BTZO, I have to dispute the premise of "fact" you imply due to the similarity of the other six panelist's lists. What Simna's differences show is that he chose to make his list based upon different criteria than the other panelists. The others, having done this before, DO POSSESS a sort of guidelines in social norms. They have participated in this event before and thus have a set of 'precedents' which guide their actions. This, not "fact" or whatever you wish to call it, is what is the source of the similarities of the original panel members, and the source of Simna's difference.


I'll give more elaboration later but I have to go to work.


EDIT: I have the brackets from the 11/04 Sac Biweekly, where should they be posted?
 
NintendoKing

NintendoKing

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
2,688
Location
Johnsville, Johntana
Norcal sucks.

**** the list. The list is not accomplishing what it was set out to do, unless it was made for arguments about who should be placed higher on a ****ing list.

I really don't think this thread should be open IMO and i also believe that power rankings shouldn't be allowed on SWF unless it's for specific on going tournies i.e biweeklies and the such in which only "power rankings" are made for those specific tournies. Don't try to group norcal together, we're too spread apart.
 
ShadowBTZO

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
HyugaRicdeau said:
I'm ignoring your posts? o_o
I practically quoted something you said in a post in my previous one. I dunno what you're trying to say, I agree with most of what you have posted. *DSF shrug*

Also FMF is too good, I put him above me even o_O. Hella beat Lunin at a biweekly and also beat Foxroar, and I think he's beat FMF before too; so I can see justification for Hella > FMF.
Click to expand...
Rofl I was talking about Simna, not you, you've like acknowledged like all my posts lolz

FMF is good but like, he only competed in 1 tournament in a while so I personally put Hella above him, he is good though. Also Hella had beaten a few good people outside of the Norcal area, contributing to him deserving a higher spot IMO.
 
ShadowBTZO

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
Delphiki said:
Second: Simna, BTZO, Hyuga. You have all made your accusations. Now stop. There is no point to this. What can we do to improve the decision making process? I agree with Hyuga and BTZO in that rankings alone don't matter, it matters who you beat. Pros can easily be ranked below noobs if their matchups don't go in their favor.

BTZO, I have to dispute the premise of "fact" you imply due to the similarity of the other six panelist's lists. What Simna's differences show is that he chose to make his list based upon different criteria than the other panelists. The others, having done this before, DO POSSESS a sort of guidelines in social norms. They have participated in this event before and thus have a set of 'precedents' which guide their actions. This, not "fact" or whatever you wish to call it, is what is the source of the similarities of the original panel members, and the source of Simna's difference.
Click to expand...
Yes, I am double posting, get over it people :p

Ok, whether or not you feel that this has a "point" is irrelevant. Also this precedents were not set from experience, considering we have only done one more before this one (and Scamp has not). Simna's criteria that he based it on is highly questionable, one of the things that I have been trying to get across. He says he based it off of rankings it tournaments, which doesn not explain his placings of people. And yes it is "fact" all of us base our list on this "fact" which is what happens at the tournaments, of course there is an opinion factored into the rankings, but very little at most. The only opinion that could be justified is determining where to place 2 players relatively close in skill and experience in tournaments.:lick:
 
HyugaRicdeau

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
Delphiki:

As for rigid timeframes, I believe that more significant results stay important longer than less significant ones. I also think that, in this list, we are trying to get some kind of average of each person's ideas about how to weight things; I don't think an arbitrary cutoff date would be worthwhile. Each panelist will have his own idea what time frame is appropriate, and as long as they realize that recent results are always more important than results from the far past, I believe that how to handle it should be left up to each panelist for himself.

I do however agree with your argument against the premise of "fact." The only fact, I believe, is the set of all matchup results, the set of all "who beat whoms." I agree that one could make the argument that Simna is abiding by a different set of criteria, yet I have argued, effectively I believe, that his list suffers from its own internal inconsistencies and we need not even bring in "social norms," as you call it, in order to comment on it.

NK:
I don't get what you're so upset about. I don't think anyone is getting on your case in particular; as I said you're just a victim of the circumstance it's not personal. And I also dispute that "the list is not accomplishing what it was set out to do." Simna refuses to respond to the arguments that Scamp, BTZO, and I have made and instead ignore our points and respond with insinuation. He doesn't like the results, so he's making a fuss over it. We didn't ignore his list, we included them in our rankings. We ask for explanations, and instead we get accused in turn without responding to our points.

For example:

"sac players are going 'stale' on other panelists' lists because they arent able to go to the tournaments that those panelists are going to"

This is patently false and I have explained why this is so many times. In case it isn't clear, here is the explanation yet again:

The only facts we are to consider is the set of all matchup results, the "who beat whoms." Every criterion that I use to make my list is essentially a function of these. One of these is that the more varied the wins a person has (as opposed to beating the same 2 or 3 people only), the more valid their results become. So as for 'going stale,' the fact is that someone who goes to Sac tournies and wins there, as well as at an NCB, will be given more credit than someone who only wins at NCBs. This is NOT because of the fact that they traveled, because someone's travel log is not part of the facts that I described above, but simply that their win set is more varied. So it doesn't matter if the players go to you or you go to them, all it matters is that you play more people. If you don't, nobody cares why, because it doesn't matter, sorry to say.

In fact I think it's pretty insulting to the people that HAVE gone out and proved themselves to everyone in the community to say Sac players deserve as much consideration as they do.
 
FALCOMIST

FALCOMIST

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 30, 2006
Messages
935
Location
Belmont,California
ShadowBTZO said:
Rofl I was talking about Simna, not you, you've like acknowledged like all my posts lolz

FMF is good but like, he only competed in 1 tournament in a while so I personally put Hella above him, he is good though. Also Hella had beaten a few good people outside of the Norcal area, contributing to him deserving a higher spot IMO.
Click to expand...
Actually ive been going to more biweeklies then HELLA xD. Yes my NCT2 bracket i beat HELLA ( SORRY HELLA STUPID FOX DITTO) then played Zelgadis and somehow beat him (U WERENT TRYING BET U WERE TIRED OR SOMETHIN)

Also the match at NCT2 was my first tourney match against HELLA though i do not take it seriously cause going our MAINS is boring xD.

BUT HEY im happy TORI and Silent Wolf are taking notice of me as I am for them since Tori and Silentwolf are good ^^ too good.

However its the panel decision where to put me in cause only they can make a choices on where im placed. IF they feel like changing me to diff spot be my guest and if not well im not complainin i just play smash and have fun thats all ^^. Dont make this a big issue Sheridan im not intending to ^^.
 
ShadowBTZO

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
FALCOMIST said:
Actually ive been going to more biweeklies then HELLA xD. Yes my NCT2 bracket i beat HELLA ( SORRY HELLA STUPID FOX DITTO) then played Zelgadis and somehow beat him (U WERENT TRYING BET U WERE TIRED OR SOMETHIN)

Also the match at NCT2 was my first tourney match against HELLA though i do not take it seriously cause going our MAINS is boring xD.

BUT HEY im happy TORI and Silent Wolf are taking notice of me as I am for them since Tori and Silentwolf are good ^^ too good.

However its the panel decision where to put me in cause only they can make a choices on where im placed. IF they feel like changing me to diff spot be my guest and if not well im not complainin i just play smash and have fun thats all ^^. Dont make this a big issue Sheridan im not intending to ^^.
Click to expand...
LOL Falcomist. But nah I meant as of late, like in the past month you haven't been to any biweeklies, so start showin up u nub :D
 
ender

ender

open your parachute
BRoomer
Joined
Oct 7, 2002
Messages
8,027
SuperRad said:
Kind of off topic:
Am I the only one that thought FMF stood for "Falcomist Motha ****a"?
<_<

maybe its just me.
Click to expand...
uh, Im pretty sure it stands for Full Metal Falcomist

or atleast thats what first grade anime would tell me. ;)
 
D

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
If I got out more and saw a good variety of players, I would love to be on this panel. Unfortunately, because of my location I'm nowhere near qualified enough.

Hyuga, the only somewhat large thing I disagree with you on is the relevancy of large results. To me, this supports that players who have not performed well recently still gain points based upon wins from a long while ago. While I see this as necessary for people such as Simna (purely for example) who don't regularly attend, I see it as a handicap in favor of players who compete often, but do badly. It seems that it would create a sort of 'buffer zone' which guarantees some points for players that have shown themselves strong in the past.

Of course I must still consider what you have said:

HyugaRicdeau said:
"As for rigid timeframes, I believe that more significant results stay important longer than less significant ones. I also think that, in this list, we are trying to get some kind of average of each person's ideas about how to weight things; I don't think an arbitrary cutoff date would be worthwhile. Each panelist will have his own idea what time frame is appropriate, and as long as they realize that recent results are always more important than results from the far past, I believe that how to handle it should be left up to each panelist for himself."
Click to expand...
Irreconcilable differences, and not a big enough matter to waste time over.


With all said and done, it seems, that Simna has thus far left incomplete arguments to fend for themselves. I hope he returns in good geist with an explanation.
 
Snap

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
Delphiki said:
Irreconcilable differences, it seems, and not a big enough matter to waste time over.


With all said and done, it seems, that Simna has thus far left incomplete arguments to fend for themselves. I hope he returns in good geist with an explanation.
Click to expand...
i don't think you need the comma after "it seems"

also you just said it seems in the sentence before.

have more confidence in your statements.
 
D

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
That was purposeful.


With all said and done, it seems.

It seems, that Simna has thus....


The same thing can be seen in lyrics a lot (using a single fragment as a part of two complete statements). I didn't realize I did it in the sentence before though... lol
 
Snap

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
Delphiki said:
That was purposeful.


With all said and done, it seems.

It seems, that Simna has thus....


The same thing can be seen in lyrics a lot (using a single fragment as a part of two complete statements). I didn't realize I did it in the sentence before though... lol
Click to expand...
your words make my eyes bleed

its all gibberish.
 
T

Tomi-X

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,027
Location
Sacramento, CA
umm...how come he isn't on the NCPR? he looks like he should be on there...does he not attend many tournaments/do well in them?
 
N

Nekurbis86

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
406
Location
San Jose, California
he chooses not to go to every single tournement there is. sometimes he places well sometimes he doesn't but every1 knows he top 25 material.
sometimes he only plays teams cus he doesn't want to spend $ for singles lmao

he doesn't really care about the ncpr

if he really wanted to he'd be on there

its what i'd make out anyways >.>
 
T

Tomi-X

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
1,027
Location
Sacramento, CA
okay, that's what i was thinking...i was watching myko's videos and he does look like he should be up there...oh well. gg myko. your falco is awesome.
 
Snap

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
Nekurbis86 said:
he chooses not to go to every single tournement there is. sometimes he places well sometimes he doesn't but every1 knows he top 25 material.
sometimes he only plays teams cus he doesn't want to spend $ for singles lmao

he doesn't really care about the ncpr

if he really wanted to he'd be on there

its what i'd make out anyways >.>
Click to expand...
yeah myko is good.

i remember he beat BTZO in tournament a while back.
 
P

ProdigyKid

Smash Lord
Joined
May 19, 2006
Messages
1,843
Location
UC Santa Cruz / Santa Clara CA
Nekurbis86 said:
he chooses not to go to every single tournement there is. sometimes he places well sometimes he doesn't but every1 knows he top 25 material.
sometimes he only plays teams cus he doesn't want to spend $ for singles lmao

he doesn't really care about the ncpr

if he really wanted to he'd be on there

its what i'd make out anyways >.>
Click to expand...
Sounds enough like Myko. I'm sure he'd rather by lvl 70 then be on the NCPR
 
KILLA.FOR.CASH.

KILLA.FOR.CASH.

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 2, 2006
Messages
2,916
Location
Fullerton, Socal
note to delphiki- ranking high in a tournament of ten people with none of the entrants that are really known good players.. wont do any good at all.. and wont help to gain on the NCPR..


and yeah, myko is hella good. i dont know why hes not on the list.
 
Snap

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
ShadowBTZO said:
LOL that was a really long time ago XD, but yeah, no doubt Myko could be on there if he just showed up, tried, and actually practiced.
Click to expand...
speaking of a long time ago, the last time me and you played in tournament was july 22nd. that's about 4 months ago. I'm not sure how that qualifies as "constantly" beating me, especially "lately."

ShadowBTZO said:
I beat the 5 people in front of me constantly . . . what I say is just what has happened lately with tournament matches.
Click to expand...
we should really play again sometime and see how that goes. but, i bet if i include a smiley and lol i will increase the levity of this post...LOL XD
 
ShadowBTZO

ShadowBTZO

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
1,123
Location
Salinas, CA
Snap said:
speaking of a long time ago, the last time me and you played in tournament was july 22nd. that's about 4 months ago. I'm not sure how that qualifies as "constantly" beating me, especially "lately."



we should really play again sometime and see how that goes. but, i bet if i include a smiley and lol i will increase the levity of this post...LOL XD
Click to expand...
Uh...as far as I know we've played many times after that, including a TGE and a biweekly short after, and I know it was after July for sure, it might have been a while ago. I was not being completely specific when I had said that though, but what I was trying to say was that in the last tournaments in which me and those who were placed above me in that particular list played, I had won, not that we played like 4 days ago and I won or anything.
 
Snap

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
ShadowBTZO said:
Uh...as far as I know we've played many times after that, including a TGE and a biweekly short after, and I know it was after July for sure, it might have been a while ago. I was not being completely specific when I had said that though, but what I was trying to say was that in the last tournaments in which me and those who were placed above me in that particular list played, I had won, not that we played like 4 days ago and I won or anything.
Click to expand...
danny, that was a TGE, and that was the very last time we played. your lack of memory does not concern me.

and if the above was what you were trying to say, then you should have said that, and not "constantly beat" in the "tournament matches lately." but, who am I to judge proper english, i'm a math major.

in any case, by your logic, myko constantly beats you in recent tournaments, and he's not even on the list. but let's not consider the cases in which you are in question, because those obviously don't matter, do they?

edit: i looked back to see when you played myko
myko beat you at the july 29th biweekly, exactly a week AFTER the last time we played. so you consider that "a really long time ago XD" even though it was more recent than the last time we played--and despite this, you use that tournament result to your advantage while ignoring the more recent one which can be used against you.

danny you can be a real cool guy. I just don't like when you trash talk others to boost your own image. please, let people judge for themselves.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom