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NorCal Melee Power Rankings - Summer '15 Update - In Sickness and In Filth

Tomi-X

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Sacramento, CA
According to the record, DM defeated his crew + Chok, while Narf defeated us, bootle, SS and Hella. Regardless of who SS plays thats a hell of an accomplishment anyway. As for DM beating Zoap and BTZO, how long ago was that? My point is, according to the panelist point of view, all DM can beat is you guys. And players who aren't on the list. I know DM is good, don't get me wrong. But the NCPR just think that Narf deserves to be on the list.
One quick question for the NCPR. Since in Narf's record you included myself and DRGN, does that mean beating us carries weight into the consideration of the rankings?
 

Zoap

Smash Master
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DM also only has one tournament this period and inconsistency(performance wise) does not help his case. Tomi you and DRGN are counted because you have beat ppl like NK, Bootle, and Sheridan. JR you only had one tournament as well but you lost Choknater and Meep and beat everyone else. And you have more consistant results in your history. Just for the record for that last spot about 8 people for the last spots and the things considered were numerous. We do the best we humanly can.
 

HyugaRicdeau

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DRZ#283
Hi.

Yeah, basically everything Zoap said is correct. We have to give some weight to recent vs history, and when we have very few tournies to go on, the judgement becomes even harder against new people who prove themselves. We all know FTA's hella good, don't worry about some random number on some list. Additionally, wins/losses against crewmates or people you play a lot don't count for as much. For example if, for the sake of argument (not to assume this is actually the case necessarily), nobody could touch DM at Modesto tourneys, but Meep did better at regional tourneys, then we'd def give the nod to Meep.

The last 2 spots were really difficult to fill; we had like 8 people to choose from. DM, Lucien, NK, Kev$, choknater are people that ALL have strong arguments to take those spots.

When people ask "why X and not Y," there's really not much to say. We considered a number of factors (which have all been noted and mentioned in the thread before), each with some amount of weight, and came to a decision based on that. That general statement could answer practically any ranking question. If someone disagrees, that just means they disagree with the amounf of weight placed on one or more factors. The only real way to argue about it is by saying "I think X factor is worth more than Y," which comes down to a matter of opinion in the first place. And to add to that, the panel is not a single entity with a fixed point of view. The panel is made of multiple people, and its composition changes as well. So again, we try to represent the range of opinions in the community through having people from different perspectives on the panel.

Germ, I think you'd be a great addition to the panel, and in fact what you noticed was true, we spent a lot of time on ranks 1-10 and 11-13 and as a panel we feel very very good about those. After that, and especially after 18, it we a very tough decision.

Regarding Sac and San Joaquin Valley panelists: The panel position is, yes, one where you are able to represent your region better than anyone else, but the whole issue is that it has to be in the perspective of someone who has played everyone. Someone, regardless of their intelligence level, who sticks almost solely to an isolated community and rarely goes outside that is not someone that is suited to be on the panel. This has been why the Sac panel spot was in much controversy. The next ranking list that comes out, if there is someone that meets that criterion for Sac (or Stockton/Modesto etc, or perhaps a combined valley panelist), then I think everyone on the panel now would like to have that addition.
 

choknater

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Modesto, CA
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choknater
hyuga is too good at explaining. thanks for all the clarification. also, GERM for panelist.

if you guys would like a good representative for the valley later on, i would be one of your better bets, only because i know how everyone in the entire valley plays inside and out. but i'm not begging to get on, merely suggesting. i know you guys do most of the judgment anyway, with a better view of norcal as a whole, whereas my knowledge of crews like the baysians and TLA is very limited. and i do admit, i've only left the valley for a norcal tournament twice, at TG6 and NCT2 Red... pretty bad if you ask me. but the plus side is that i follow every tournament very closely, tio results and all.

don't take this as delphiki-like obsession with the community, lol. it's merely a suggestion if you guys are in need of a valley rep for the next panel. otherwise, i don't wanna give the impression that i'm a noob butting into business.
 

Delphiki

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Ah crap I'm a simile. And a bad one....:(

Anyways chok I personally think that NK is a better choice than you because he gets out of the area more, has played more people, and is more active (especially once he gets his car functional!). Also you pretty much stick to Modesto..you can't really say you know everyone inside and out when there are several people you haven't played more than a couple matches..or at more than one event.


I really don't like the new system - I liked the points better because I don't like the panelists to be forced to concede in an event such as 5 panelists say one thing and the other disagrees. A consensus forces that. This only really matters on controversial positions and players though. Any ideas on which system will be used next time? It may get ugly with a Sac panelist, who would most likely bring a lot more controversy and have a weaker stand in this system - whereas points would give them a bit more say.

What I do like is that the inactives were dropped - but Meep should have been LOWERED (not dropped) for inactivity. For DM/KFC they both should have been dropped because the lowering would have bumped them off. How did KFC not drop when 2 people are added and he's been inactive? :confused: Mike and JR are in a very similar position but completely different things happened to them. I'd like this explained.
 

cavesonic13

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Sacramento,CA
I say the list should be blown up and eaten by NK

I say this list is stupid to the point of stupid...which makes no sense because its no supose to...

and 3rd...we all suck except the top 5 on the list...gg


btw...DM should be up there
 

Simna ibn Sind

THIS IS unMODNESS!
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SIND#745
There is an unavoidable region bias in the rankings. No one can be blamed for it because its unavoidable. Its pretty much fact that the biggest concentration of good players in norcal are in the bay area...because of that the players who live in and closest to the bay area get more recognition by a great deal and players outside the area get les coverage and their records of wins/losses stagnate faster. If you look at the current list...there are...3? 3 out of 20 players on it are from outside the bay area. This also brings up an issue with tournaments and their value to the rankings. Say there is a tournament in sac...now seeing as most of the good players are in the bay area that tournament pretty much means nothing unless ppl from that area show up. Now at the same time lets have a tournament "random bay area city number A." At that bay area tournament you can have no smashers show up from outside the bay and the tournament will be completely worth its matches for the rankings.

These rankings are an uphill battle for anyone outside the bay area area, but really no one can be blamed for it...as far as I can tell its just an unavoidable fact of life...and it saddens me.
A sac panelist wouldnt matter. I think the panelists are fine the way they are. Its pretty much gonna be an uphill battle for some players and there isnt much thats pretty much just the way it is...some of us will have to work harder than others...if you can't handle that, then request that you not be on the rankings and just play melee. As far as I can see there is nothing that can be done to fix the problem and so some players will just have to work more for it.
 

SuperRad

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Simna's points are quite valid. a valley/sac panelist could provide another prospective, but it wont change the fact that sac/valley players need to travel to truly prove themselves.

[although if you are saying "outside of the bay area" you should include sheridan (during the school year) and ESPECIALLY btzo. btzo travels hella far to get anywhere, i think people forget this sometimes. that's kind of off the subject though.]
 

Simna ibn Sind

THIS IS unMODNESS!
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SIND#745
i can relate to BTZO's issue of not being able to drive and all that, but hyuga lives there for a nice chunk of each year and they are both on the panel and in the same crew, so they get support from each other
 

cavesonic13

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OH...well I finally got of the last page and checked the new thing...turns out...it sucks...plus DM has not been inactive its just that our tournys havenot been up and running, and as far as I know, DM is pretty much one of the top here in the area, also recognizing that if KFC and Meep go somewhere, DarkMike is there...this is really stupid like I've said before
 

ShadowBTZO

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Salinas, CA
i can relate to BTZO's issue of not being able to drive and all that, but hyuga lives there for a nice chunk of each year and they are both on the panel and in the same crew, so they get support from each other
What do you mean by support? Also Hyuga does not live "here" he lives in Santa Cruz, which is a 40 minute drive from me. Unfortunately though, there is no bus that goes straight to SC frm Salinas, so I have to take a bus for an hour to Watsonville, and I then wait for the bus to SC. Also there is no bus that just takes the highway or anything, so I'm on that bus for an hour as well, because it goes through many residential areas. So yeah, I'm about as close to Hyuga as I am to like Mike666 or something.
 

Simna ibn Sind

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SIND#745
oops i had editted my post and forgot to change the word "there" before i editted i had said something along the lines of bay area, and that's what i meant..."but hyuga lives in the bay area for a nice chunk of each year..."
 

NintendoKing

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I think that simna is right. However the lack of trying by bay area smashers in sac/valley tournies should not be taken into accountability. I lose matches because i feel like sandbagging and in doing so am not on the list based off tourney records. Same thing should have applied to all bay area smashers that made trips to sac. I find that no one counts my multiple wins against sheridan, or me beating narf, falcomist, and whoever else is or was on the list like nemesis. Does the panel take into consideration i threw matches to people like oni, delphiki, germ (lol jk), tc1 and others just because? It's all a bit shady. So really how can you judge based on consistency when people DECIDE to sandbag? This is why bobby was correct in basing everything off of ONLY tourney placings based on location when determining a power ranking list. Skill vs Record gets very blurred in these rankings. It's all a bit too much.
 

choknater

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Ah crap I'm a simile. And a bad one....:(

Anyways chok I personally think that NK is a better choice than you because he gets out of the area more, has played more people, and is more active (especially once he gets his car functional!). Also you pretty much stick to Modesto..you can't really say you know everyone inside and out when there are several people you haven't played more than a couple matches..or at more than one event.


I really don't like the new system - I liked the points better because I don't like the panelists to be forced to concede in an event such as 5 panelists say one thing and the other disagrees. A consensus forces that. This only really matters on controversial positions and players though. Any ideas on which system will be used next time? It may get ugly with a Sac panelist, who would most likely bring a lot more controversy and have a weaker stand in this system - whereas points would give them a bit more say.

What I do like is that the inactives were dropped - but Meep should have been LOWERED (not dropped) for inactivity. For DM/KFC they both should have been dropped because the lowering would have bumped them off. How did KFC not drop when 2 people are added and he's been inactive? :confused: Mike and JR are in a very similar position but completely different things happened to them. I'd like this explained.
i didn't say NK was a bad choice. i'd vouch for him too, he knows his stuff and he is a decent smasher at that. and maybe when i said "inside and out," it was a stretch. but, admittedly, as one of the better smashers in the valley, i know where people stand skill-wise. there are probably a select few valley players who i have never played or not played in a long time (tyderium, cavesonic, and tc1 are the only ones i can think of) so the only way i can judge them is through tournament results. needless to say - no offense to them of course - none of their current standings show they are NCPR-worthy, so it wouldn't make much difference anyway.

furthermore, the same could be said about NK never being able to play Modesto players like Death or Mick... but it doesn't really matter, does it? they are good, but not NCPR worthy. quite frankly, people still need to step it up and travel out of the area before anything could be said about our players making it to the rank, like superrad said. that's not gonna happen with me anytime soon, so there's absolutely no chance for me to get on for now. so right now, because i can't go to tournaments, why not stand up for the valley as a whole? to me your suggestion of NK's superiority to me in judgment seems like an expression of your pride in sacramento's smash scene. he's a good man, let him speak for himself.

also: inactivity doesn't change the fact that certain people are good. foxroar was dropped, but everyone knows he can **** the sht out of people. he did yesterday at a tournament, taking out sheridan, frotaz, bernard, and zhu.
 

ProdigyKid

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What I do like is that the inactives were dropped - but Meep should have been LOWERED (not dropped) for inactivity.
*Read that line*

*Goes to 1st page to see rankings. Sees Meep at 16*

*Reads line again*

What are you fricking looking at?

But as for the valley kids, Zoap goes to those quite often, and sometimes Hyuga/BTZO, so when they show up, you better do what you can to impress them.
 

cavesonic13

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FACT to the world I never want to be on the NCPR...it seems likea fawking job...I am just hear for the laughs and the fun...and trust me...I'll never try smashing extremely seriously...because...I'd probably wouldn't be as fun to fight then...because when people smash with me...they know they can beat me...so I leave it at that...I don't want to be up there...where everybody is like "oh I beat him...hahaha...he is good but I beat him!" since its going to be this way pretty much for ...maybe forever...I am just gona stay at the bottom even though I'd only try in low tier tourny and items hahaah i am lame
 

Tomi-X

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Nah prolly for a biweekly. 32 bucks there and back ain't bad, but I think I'd need to be housed overnight, seeing as the last bus of the night is 8 ****in hours somehow.

EDIT: So any of you deep norcalians wanna hook up Tomi-X at some point?
 

Snap

Smash Ace
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Jan 1, 2005
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i haven't been to enough tournaments recently for people to rank me. I've been to like only two tournaments in the last 6 months or something. I did OK in those but I know I can do better.

So when I decide to start going to tournaments again then I'll eventually ask you guys to consider me for the list.


It's kind of refreshing not to be on the list. You don't get glaring eyes of jealousy and hate. And you don't make simna sht his diapers.
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
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DRZ#283
DM has not been inactive its just that our tournys havenot been up and running
No johns.

FACT to the world I never want to be on the NCPR...it seems likea fawking job...I am just hear for the laughs and the fun...and trust me...I'll never try smashing extremely seriously...because...I'd probably wouldn't be as fun to fight then...because when people smash with me...they know they can beat me...so I leave it at that...I don't want to be up there...where everybody is like "oh I beat him...hahaha...he is good but I beat him!" since its going to be this way pretty much for ...maybe forever...I am just gona stay at the bottom even though I'd only try in low tier tourny and items hahaah i am lame
You obviously care about it enough to tell the rest of us how stupid it is, which you did multiple times. Some of us care about being good at smash more than others. Different people have different values. One would think someone like you would understand and respect this. Your post makes it seem like you think being good at this game and having fun / hanging out are mutually exclusive, which is far from the case. I definitely think that Smash became infinitely more fun the better I got. The better you understand the game, the more you can appreciate it. So, if you're just going to demean the hard work (and not even being constructive about it at that, all you said was that it's stupid and it sucks) that people put into getting good at this game and building a competitive community, I suggest you stop posting.

Nintendoking said:
So really how can you judge based on consistency when people DECIDE to sandbag? This is why bobby was correct in basing everything off of ONLY tourney placings based on location when determining a power ranking list. Skill vs Record gets very blurred in these rankings.
You can't very well, but people use sandbagging as a john all the freaking time. In fact someone whom I won't mention today even tried to use it in seriousness on me. We can't just give a player credit on the list for his best playing. Nobody plays their best all the time, and part of being a good player is consistency. This list isn't a guess of who would do better if everyone played their best, it's overall, covering the range of someone's ability. If you feel like sandbagging, fine. That speaks to me as someone who enjoys being good at the game but doesn't care too much about whatever number he is on some arbitrary list. And that's fine, but your words and your actions seem somewhat at odds with one another. I'm the only one on the panel that has really played very much of you, so you can't expect everyone to know when you're sandbagging.
 

The GERM

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Concord CA
hey this is bob at germshouse
two good touranments isnt that greta to put me higher than rey honestly even this period.
i did good at ucla cuz alex was knocked out of my way very early. also rey and jeff pretty much go 50/50 that period too the ***** beat DSF too seriously. if this is about rey being inconsistent how is my 2 good tournaments any more consisntent.
 

Narfanator

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NARF#806
I knew there would be some issues brought up with me being on the NCPR but six guys that the smash community respects had reasons for putting me up there...Personally I really don't think I should be up there, just because I think I haven't been in the community for that long.

Yeah I had wins versus Hella and SS but they were sandbagging at that time and using there secondary characters. I really don't want to call those victories.

It's nice being recognized as a good samus player though, especially from those guys, but I know I still have a lot to go since there are people that don't think I am good, and haven't played me...
 

NintendoKing

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Sheridan:

I didn't mean me necessarily, I was just using myself as an example. You know very well I love playing the game moreso than caring about some silly list.
But for the people that do care, stunts pulled by smashers in the past with character selection and not trying (namely with the top ranked people) give this list an aweful skew that CANNOT be ignored. You wanna talk about placings? How can anyone be totally satisfied with a list that betrays talent and skill for placings? And THEN when noticed by the panel of the critical distortion, we who are not panelist, leave it up to you guys to guestimate placings? You see the flaw of trying to base a list off of consistency to show who's the best when the best, as acknowledged by the community, don't give a flying fucκ when they play in tournies?

Is this a list of the best of the best? Or distorted facts on placings and misleading skillZ.

nd yes i think i would represent the sac area/valley best as a panelist. No ego included.
 

Snap

Smash Ace
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NK you used to have a different avatar that i REALLY liked. do you remember which one it was?

was it a game and watch avatar?
 

tc1

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May 31, 2006
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Las Vegas, NV
good luck tom. me and a few pp may go ,um i've been gone from this thread 4 a while, whens the next tourny???.

Narf - Ur a real good samus, seriously GFG, but if you got put on the list for beating ppl when threy sandbag, thats a dumb reason. but i think you should be put on anyway just not 4 that/those reasons
 
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