• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

NorCal Melee Power Rankings - Summer '15 Update - In Sickness and In Filth

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
lunin

you know what doesn't make sense?

listing the sum of the points of each crew member

you know what does make sense?

listing the average points of the crew members


for comparison purposes, crews shouldn't be penalized for having less crew members and thus less points.
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
I don't understand, Snap. Consider now that there are 5 Deep Norcal on the rankings. If somehow we all kept our same rankings, except a 6th Deep Norcal moved into 25th, by averaging the points, that would give a lesser value, when clearly the scenario means that we'd have gotten better. So taking the average would penalize you for having more members. Simply adding the sum doesn't "penalize" you for having fewer members any more than lesser skilled people are "penalized" with a lower rank.
 

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
hyuga

pretty much, if you were to actually have a crew battle, after having added on someone from 25th, it would bring your average skill down and you would do worse. so yes, by adding more members, you would be penalized, but that's because you added a member of obviously lower skill.

to give a more exaggerated case, let's say DBR has 5 awesome smashers, and all of a sudden they add 5 scrubs, then the raw skill level in DBR will remain constant, but if they crew battled the baysians, they would lose because the average skill level just dropped son.

averaging would only penalize for having more members if the more members have low skill. and i think that's fair.

pretty much the reason i say i dont agree with having a crew penalized for having fewer members is because of this:

for example, lets say DBR has 5 real good smashers, but lets say deep norcal has 10 OK smashers. It's possible for the points of DBR to = the points of deep norcal, even though the average DBR member could beat the average deep norcal member. that is to say, its possible for two crews of very different skill levels to have the same amount of points in the way the current system is run. however, it is impossible for the average skill points level to be the same if the crew on average isn't of the same skill level.

i think that makes sense.
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
OK, I understand what you're saying, but I mean a "crew battle" doesn't just take place only between people on the rankings. I wasn't talking about just adding some guy to a crew that happened to take 25th on the rankings, I'm talking about someone who's been in the crew jumping up to that rank. It's like if say Clod all of a sudden got to 25th, that wouldn't make DBR worse. IN the same line of reasoning, from my example in the previous post, we wouldn't have "added a member," it's just that one of our lesser skilled members would have jumped up onto the list. I think really what you SHOULD say, if you want to make your standard work, is you have to include every person from a crew, be they on the list or not, into the average, and you'd give the ones not on it zero pts or something (though even that wouldn't be accurate, cause that would mean that #26, i.e. the #1 guy that missed the list, and Roymaster9 who thinks that Roy is everything Marth is -and more- are given equal value, etc).

Plus if you look at limiting cases, the 'average' idea doesn't quite hold. I mean, if we have a crew of 2 people at #1 and #2, and a crew that's 3 - 25, the average of the crew with 2 people is higher, but would you still think that the crew of 2 ppl is more powerful, or has more skill -total-? I suppose there are different ways of quantifying skill, so when we talk about "best" whatever, it's necessary to specify in what capacity we mean "best."
 

Snap

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Messages
539
Location
san francisco
the assumption i'm making is that everyone in the crew is on the list.

perhaps that isnt true, such as with myko and azndanny in the baysians.

then sure, perhaps the total number could be divided by the total # people in the crew including myko and azndanny.

but that would cause everyone not on the list to be estimated at equal skill level.

to respond to your last example, certainly the crew of 2 people is not as powerful in terms of raw total skill level, and in that sense the current system of summing the points would work, but I don't think the raw skill level tells us much since the number of people in the crew can vary so much.
 

Zoap

Smash Master
Joined
Sep 7, 2004
Messages
3,430
Location
California
I guess I get counted as Misc seeing as my other 3 crew mates didnt count <.<.
Two requested off and One is a bayasian at heart lol
Its ok I guess I'm in the same catergory as Isai, which in itself is awesome.
 

tc1

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
1,213
Location
Las Vegas, NV
No i mean straight up best crew 1 -25 and all in general.. not based on members ./ well sorta , We would have to do crew battles again. WHICH = HELLA FUN
 

Delphiki

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 20, 2006
Messages
2,065
Location
Sacramento / Berkeley
I think it would be cool, and that it should be based on how the crew as a whole performs. Can't just be like 'well these players are a bit better than those players so we know which crew is better.' Some crews do really really well in crew battles because they know all the strengths and weaknesses of their crewmembers.

But we prolly couldn't do more than top 10.

edit: We should hella have more crew battles in NorCal. They're hella fun.
 

SuperRad

Smash Master
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Messages
4,965
Location
San Francisco, CA [Sometimes Santa Cruz]
I think more then 5 is unnecessary. Becuase 10 will allow a lot of mediocre crews onto the list. It would be like making the power rankings 50 people instead of 25.

As a spectator, I just want NorCal to have more crew battles. They're a lot of fun to watch as their is a lot of strategy and planning required, as well as a lot of pressure on the players.
 

tc1

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
1,213
Location
Las Vegas, NV
thats what i was thinking we should power ranking vs power ranking now thats what im talking about baby.. YAHHHHH Norcals Best vs Socals Best.


and if there was 1 i think it would go something like this..


hope you can understand what im doing .. ------>

1.DBR/BA
2.BA/DBR
3.FTA /BP
4.FTA/BP/ DEEP NORCALIANS/CTMW
5.BP/DEEP NORCALIANS/CTMW
6.DEEP NORCALIANS/CTMW
7. - - - -
8.- - - - -
9.NOVA COMPLEX
10.- - - -
11. TEAM PAUK
12. - - - -

something like that and we would judge by doing round robin crew battles.

IONO just something to think about...
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
Yeah.

Deep Norcal stands no chance against FTA and BP.

Fact.

Not that I really care, I just like funny things.
 

tc1

Smash Lord
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
1,213
Location
Las Vegas, NV
no specific order omg thats just a example lol... um i think im going to make 1 if there aren't any rejections .. Ill need more panelist so yah Zoap and a few others feel free i want new panelist because i hear there are few problems with the people who voted on this list..

Mwahahah i got it all planned out nioce kk
 

HyugaRicdeau

Baller/Shot-caller
Joined
Jun 4, 2003
Messages
3,883
Location
Portland, OR
Slippi.gg
DRZ#283
no specific order omg thats just a example lol... um i think im going to make 1 if there aren't any rejections .. Ill need more panelist so yah Zoap and a few others feel free i want new panelist because i hear there are few problems with the people who voted on this list..

Mwahahah i got it all planned out nioce kk
What in God's name are you blathering about.
 
Top Bottom