No tripping code 'tis out (Updated! Added NEW Ocarina version!)

[Foxy]

Is there a way to increase the fall speed without messing up second jumps?

Possibly we could just change the Up-B properties (such as making Diddy stall rather than fall when charging his, or of course just lower the fall speed to compensate).

 

[nightSN]

alright.. wavedash and lcancel please! (:

 

[ixdnL]

Nice. It's good thing tripping's out but come on people, leave the rest of the game alone. Brawl will be Brawl.

 

[Yuna]

Why is this in both Brawl sections and why are the mods allowing it to exist in both sections? How is this Tactical, anyway? It belongs in General Brawl and it should not exist in both forums, especially when both threads are identical (in purpose and the OP).

 

[noodles]

is this gunna be used for tournaments?

 

[GHNeko]

But the thing is. Will something like this be accepted in Tourneys? Local and Major? I read a thread somewhere about having Tourneys in Heavy Brawl (Special Brawl mode) in order to allow players to combo more, etc etc, and was generally shot down. Wouldnt this be the same, or at least in the same boat for modifying the game in a fashion that isnt a standard?

 

[Cerozero]

Using this code online in Vs. anyone wont work. I tested with replay data and if you play back a replay that you made with this code on without it on (and viceversa) you won't get the proper seqence. It will even make you trip. Any word on Friend matches? Would it work if you hosted against someone who didn't have it? If anyone wants to try step up,

 

[Someone7]

You got the source code of Brawl?

I call bull****.

edit: putting a program through a decompiler doesn't give you original source code, and probably isn't ever gonna be very helpful.

 

[Pikaville]

If this is true......you are great.

Wavedashing next!(ha ha)

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Possibly we could just change the Up-B properties (such as making Diddy stall rather than fall when charging his, or of course just lower the fall speed to compensate).

I just want fast falling to make me fall faster

 

[Mr.Victory07]

This is..meh. Tripping never really affects anyone, people just get mad bacuse they think the could have combo'd(which they couldnt have). Give us more sheildstun, slightly more hitstun, and a single airdodge or something instead of wasting your time on something menial like tripping

 

[Foxy]

Why is this in both Brawl sections and why are the mods allowing it to exist in both sections? How is this Tactical, anyway? It belongs in General Brawl and it should not exist in both forums, especially when both threads are identical (in purpose and the OP).

If this isn't Tactical than neither are all of those threads discussing the competitive aspects (or lack thereof) of Brawl, such as your famous thread.

Tripping is the number one example of why Brawl is a horrible competitive game, so I don't see how a thread showcasing a way of removing it doesn't qualify to be in this forum.

And honestly, Brawl doesn't deserve a Tactical forum anyways if you're going to be that anally literal about thread content.

EDIT: It doesn't, of course, need to be in both, however. Lock the one in General.

 

[Wayland]

Why can't people play Melee if they REALLY want Melee?

People don't want Melee, they want a game more in line with the general SSB experiance. Hitstun has always been big, and the reduction in brawl is incredibly huge. SSB64 had too much hitstun (pika's utilt...) SSBM was a nice balance for many (unless you were at the business end of a nasty combo or something, and you couldn't take it like a man), and SSBB pretty much threw hitstun away. And people want it back.

If some brilliant man. wants to figure out a hitstun re-includer, they need to also tweak the game to balance out what they did, and that's such an epic task, I can't imagine anyone doing it.

 

[Foxy]

You got the source code of Brawl?

I call bull****.

edit: putting a program through a decompiler doesn't give you original source code, and probably isn't ever gonna be very helpful.

?

It's not a program. You can dump the ISO using the USB Gecko and then de-encrypt it and decompile it based on the chip (Broadway, a modified Gekko, which is a modified PowerPC 750CXe).

It's something like 28 million lines of code and honestly I'm not that programming fluent so I couldn't tell you what language it's in or what the structure of it is like. All I know is that it's been hard to work with so far (but not impossible, for example the variables for stages and such are readable and make sense with some logical deductions).

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Removing random tripping is awesome and has no real downsides.

Changing hitstun/shieldstun/etc. will throw the game completely out of whack.

 

[Foxy]

Changing hitstun/shieldstun/etc. will throw the game completely out of whack.

Sakurai changed those and ruined the game a whole lot more than we ever could.

 

[Col. Stauffenberg]

Sakurai also built this game around the current physics, whether you like it or not.

Don't kid yourself thinking adding more hitstun is going to somehow magically make the game better on it's own.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I had a HUGE conversation with a friend about why adding hitstun and **** will lead to worse ****.

For one thing, certain characters would become God, and we'd have to balance them, but there's no ****ing way we could regulate how, so technically, it could be a different game PER WII. MK would be total ****, because the hitstun would prolly allow him to seriously **** you up, so we'd want to make him less godly. That's just an example.

And if I'm wrong, lemme know, but isn't modding like this illegal? And we go out in large groups with these modded wii's, so it's not like the police couldn't crack down on it.


Dont change the game you hate, DEMAND a better one, Sakurai basically wanted to screw us, and so far, he's been rewarded. If you want the next Smash to be better, make your opinion voiced to him, I doubt he ever comes over here.

(I myself like Brawl, lol, but it could use more combos, and l canceling would be awesome. Honestly, I dont want wavedashing back, and I dont have an issue with multiple air dodges.)

 

[ShadowLink84]

I had a HUGE conversation with a friend about why adding hitstun and **** will lead to worse ****.

Really?

For one thing, certain characters would become God, and we'd have to balance them, but there's no ****ing way we could regulate how, so technically, it could be a different game PER WII. MK would be total ****, because the hitstun would prolly allow him to seriously **** you up, so we'd want to make him less godly. That's just an example.

And hitstun would allow charcter like Sonic, Pikachu and other to **** him up.
Seriously its not as if its only going one way.
Character like Captain Falcon do not function at all because of the lack of hitstun. Yeah MK would be stronger but it wouldn't benefit him much anyway.
It would definitely benefit more characters though.

And if I'm wrong, lemme know, but isn't modding like this illegal? And we go out in large groups with these modded wii's, so it's not like the police couldn't crack down on it.

Datel v. Nintendo.

its not illegal but Nintendo has the right to brick your wii and declare the warranty invalid.

Dont change the game you hate, DEMAND a better one, Sakurai basically wanted to screw us, and so far, he's been rewarded. If you want the next Smash to be better, make your opinion voiced to him, I doubt he ever comes over here.

He screwed us over because of HIS ideas not the competitive community.
Frankly NIntendo doesn't give two ****s about the hardcore gamers.

hitstun isn't hard its a simply value.
Shieldstun is maybe a bit more difficult.
Multiple airdodges isn't bad at all it benefits a good number of characters.

 

[Falconv1.0]

I think we'd need to at the least, make a huge analysis of how hitstun would affect characters, and which ones it would affect most, before we do anything.

 

[metaXzero]

Original thread in GBD got closed (1 person opposed to removing tripping wouldn't STFU).

Anyway, interesting thread. I might start hacking myself (when I have money). lol

 

[ssbbFICTION]

Ive had discussions with numerous players about hitstun in brawl. The first thing everyone says is MK for god tier. The best thing he could do is combo u air's into up b, which already works. MK would actually be MADE WORSE. Snake would still be very good, but since faster characters like shiek could build up damage with combos, his tilts wouldn't be nearly the godliness that they are now. DDD's chaingrab wouldn't be as evil, because more characters would be able to chaingrab his fatness. The only thing that would be truly buffed would be things like pikachu's dthrow cg on fox, but fox was more susceptable to combos in melee as well. Fox would be buffed because his shine spiking would work much better and his agility would be much rewarded. Characters like shiek, c. falcon, and sonic would actually be good because of their combo ability. Jigglypuff would actually be a very good character again. Characters could combo into their kill moves which would speed the game up, add more stocks to competitive play, and make the game more fun to watch.


The reason I want faster falling speeds is because it improves combo ability and forces you to think and react faster in a match, which always makes it more interesting.

 

[ArcPoint]

....Wolf would be screwed. >_<

He's already one of the fastest fallers... oh man, he could get zero to deathed by every character with a decent down grab...

He'd get a buff with the hitstun (Oh man, Bair combos <3 ) But he'd just be screwed.

Also, think of how many more characters could chaingrab? What fun that'd be....

 

[ssbbFICTION]

....Wolf would be screwed. >_<

He's already one of the fastest fallers... oh man, he could get zero to deathed by every character with a decent down grab...

He'd get a buff with the hitstun (Oh man, Bair combos <3 ) But he'd just be screwed.

Also, think of how many more characters could chaingrab? What fun that'd be....

LOL. Characters would not have 0 deaths on wolf if you DI right. You obviously didnt play melee XD.

With more characters cging, that would make the game BETTER. The cgs that already exist "cheaply" wouldn't be as incredible. And we could always play with more stocks.

I always think of that "Incredibles" quote XD. "When everyone is super, then no one will be". It will actually balance out the game more.

 

[wazgood]

i vote earlier ledge dropping, less ledge invincibilty, more edge time while rolling up, and grabbing the edge w/ a tether and a regular grab at the same time

 

[cutter]

I really think that MK would be ridiculously broken if hitstun was increased.

His moves have virtually no startup time and virtually no lag. He can just chain moves over and over dealing ****loads of damage and pushing you offstage. Then he Dairs you a couple of times and you're ****ed because an increase of hitstun for MK's Dair will gimp pretty much every single character except for maybe ROB.

MK's Dthrow would turn into an obscenly broken chaingrab that would send anyone offstage and into a WOP with Dairs resulting in easy gimps or an easy kill with Nair if % is high. Thanks to MK's insane dash grab, this is easily possible.

Ftilt would become soooo overpowered. Ftilt into another Ftilt or a grab results in such ridiculous amounts of damage from Ftilt spam or into gimp kills off a Dthrow offstage.

Dtilt would be such a powerful combo starter that it's almost unfair. The IASA frames are crazy and allow you to immediately react and do whatever after a poke that doesn't trip... leading into a grab or maybe something like a Dsmash or Nair to kill.

Uair would be just silly. With increased hitstun, MK could just DI chase you up to the top of the stage and end it with more Uairs, Up B, tornado, whatever. This move comes out frame 2 and has almost no cooldown time to speak of. MK could juggle just about anybody that didn't have a decent Dair to get out of it.

Sure, characters like CF, Sonic, Luigi, etc would become better because of the increased hitstun and more potential for combos. Unfortunately, MK would be in a class of his own because his comboing would be completely unrivaled.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

@cutter- since we havent experienced more hitstun, we don't know the capabilities of others in hitstun either. You are pretty much assuming that metaknight can just keep hitting you and you will never be able to do anything. We would have to actually test it to find if he was broken or not.

On the other hand, if you are right, I guess we could sacrifice that ONE character for the sake of the entire game.

 

[Falconv1.0]

A quick quote from Inui

"Brawl would be broken with hitstun"

 

[Hyrus]

Brawl has hitstun, it's just that you can dodge during it. That's the problem.

 

[Alopex]

Add more hitstun, make projectile camping even more effective.

Wow, that sounds so promising. I always thought that projectile camping was a vastly underused playstyle.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Add more hitstun, make projectile camping even more effective.

Wow, that sounds so promising. I always thought that projectile camping was a vastly underused playstyle.

Wouldn't it take quite a bit of hitstun to make camping inescapable? Unless that's not your point, then I have no idea what the **** you're trying to say.

 

[cutter]

@cutter- since we havent experienced more hitstun, we don't know the capabilities of others in hitstun either. You are pretty much assuming that metaknight can just keep hitting you and you will never be able to do anything. We would have to actually test it to find if he was broken or not.

On the other hand, if you are right, I guess we could sacrifice that ONE character for the sake of the entire game.

I tested added hitstun SOMEWHAT in Brawl by going into training mode and testing "combos" on CPU dummies set to Stop. It's very sketchy, but it's as close as we can get to trying out more hitstun. I would combo moves into someone before they went into the "tumbing" animation to show for the extra hitstun.

I found out that MK has a ridiculous chaingrab with his Dthrow that will send anyone to the edge of the stage and off with a Fair. From there you can just WOP with Dair for an easy gimp. His Ftilt and Dtilt are borderline broken setup moves that chain into a Dthrow, Dash attack, and much more that would result in insane amounts of damage. The Uair was just... ugh -_-

Granted this was all against test dummies that couldn't react at all, but in my eyes MK+more hitstun would make him the only viable character in the game. He would be the next Akuma.

Now that tripping can be removed, people will want hitstun to be increased (too bad it would destroy the game). I can only imagine people hacking Brawl to get wavedashing and L-canceling back as well as other things like shieldstun, nerfing/buffing characters and moves. And so the slippery slope begins.

 

[M3zm3r1z3]

If this isn't Tactical than neither are all of those threads discussing the competitive aspects (or lack thereof) of Brawl, such as your famous thread.

Tripping is the number one example of why Brawl is a horrible competitive game, so I don't see how a thread showcasing a way of removing it doesn't qualify to be in this forum.

And honestly, Brawl doesn't deserve a Tactical forum anyways if you're going to be that anally literal about thread content.

EDIT: It doesn't, of course, need to be in both, however. Lock the one in General.

get wrecked yuna

good **** fox

 

[bigman40]

I've already had someone test that factor on AiB when I stated the hit stun factor. He agreed with me (the guy had the code to add hit stun and tested it) that MK is a combo machine due to the little dmg his atks give out. Also, wouldn't adding hit stun screw the heavy characters again? Since they can't really combo like others, wouldn't they become a disadvantage to the group that combos decently well?

 

[cutter]

Also, wouldn't adding hit stun screw the heavy characters again? Since they can't really combo like others, wouldn't they become a disadvantage to the group that combos decently well?

AFAIK, yes. I tested MK "combos" against Bowser, Ganondorf, DK, and D3 dummies and they get wrecked with Dthrow CG, Dtilt/Ftilt setups, and worst of all, Dair gimps.

 

[thesage]

I don't see what's the point of not trying it. Brawl has some great things going for it but there just some things that absolutely ruin it.

I think Snake would be even worse than MK with hitstun. His f-tilt can combo into itself at low percents now...

Do you have an idea on how to program djc'ing?

 

[Hylian]

This code works. I now never trip.

 

[cutter]

I think Snake would be even worse than MK with hitstun. His f-tilt can combo into itself at low percents now...

Actually it'd be way worse. Snake could simply knee lock every single character by just doing the first hit of his Ftilt over and over again for an ungodly amount of damage before the opponent can DI out.

The first hit of Ftilt already has crazy hitstun. If it gets more, Snake has a pseudo infinite that can get people up to triple digits and into a Utilt kill.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

how would this work online? against someone w/o the code?

 

[SheerMadness]

Hell yah for increased hitstun.

For all the people whining about increased hitstun:

We can atleast try it. If it makes Metaknight and other things beyond broken we obviously don't have to stick with it. It sure as hell would make the game a lot more fun with most characters though.