NJ Finder - Tournament Finder Updated (10/8) See new thread for Brawl Rankings

[Eazy23]

Do you agree, my loyal subjects?

LMAO at this!!!
Inui you would kill yourself. After repeating yourself 34354637574 times, only to hear " I did my thing with peach, I showed the world wassup". Love Dp tho haha.

 

[_Yes!_]

Do you agree, my loyal subjects?

I couldn't tell who was who...

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I mean no disrespect when I say this, because I believe your sonic is awesome. But you do realize that just because YOU know sonic's flaws, and how to beat him, doesn't mean that others do. And most people at this point will claim that " if you can't beat sonic you're an idiot" well what does that then say about beating them?

Just because other people aren't aware about his many flaws doesn't make him good.

I've seen you beat really good people with sonic. But i'm also aware that MANY smashers simply do not know what to do vs the character. Same goes for alot of chars.

Has nothing to do with the character imo. I like to take credit for winning matches where I have to repeat the same thing over and over(spin dash) bc there is no other method of damage instead of doing a move right after a spin dash lands a hit.

Regardless of whether in some theoretical space and time sonic is the most simple character to defeat, he is difficult to deal with in REAL LIFE. He is fast, he runs away, he has spinny attacks that most people don't understand. Also, like every sonic player is willing to go 2 the timer lol.

He is not difficult to deal with. He's fast.....ok so? What options does he have with running speed thats confusing? His speed is used to run away in order to charge up yet another spin dash. People not understanding his spinny attacks makes him good? How? He has side B and down B. They are very easy to tell apart(one hops and moves back, the other doesnt and stays in place). There is barely any difference between them anyway except sheld canceling side B.

I have gone to the timer intentionally twice since I started playing brawl and once was with Diddy. It's not every sonic, only the bad ones. It happens naturally against DDD though.

Forcing the fact that he is a bad character down people's throats, doesn't change the fact that he is actually a good tournament choice in many situations because of the surprise factor he offers, with or without his strengths/ weaknesses as a character.

What is happening is rarely what should/could be happening when it comes to this game.

People can believe what they want to believe. If I beat someone they obviously aren't going to accept that hes bad and not viable. If you claim that he's a good tournament character based on surprises, then every low tier would fall under that excuse. It just means that they have to work (much)harder the moment those exploits, which dont do much anyway, wear off.

Another reason he isn't a good tournament choice is bc of the tournament characters that are often played. I'll use S tier and A tier as an example since most of them are commonly played in our region anyway. I wont bother with ratios since those vary by person of how extreme the matchup is but ill give my honest opinion in wording.

Meta Knight( sonic loses, not bad though)
Snake( Horrible)
Wario(horrible)
Falco(Sonic loses, I think 6:4 but others say worse)
Diddy Kong(loses, not badly)
King Dedede(loses, not badly)


Marth(awful)
Mr. Game & Watch(awful)
Pikachu(even imo)
Olimar( sonic can't win vs a good oli)
Ice Climbers(awful)
R.O.B.(bad, like 65:35)
Kirby(even)

right under these chracters is Lucario on the list. I'll include him bc zucco is a big threat in our area. Losses horribly to lucario too.

Little tricks and exploits only get you so far. He barely has any anyway. You see most of them first round and if someone cant adapt then tough. It's much harder to win with sonic than every other character on the roster above him and like 3 below him. Ally beats amazing people with Falcon. He wrecked my sonic in low tiers in 2 sets. He's a good player. It wasn't falcon.

Btw, I'm not johnning about my character. I'm well aware of the arguement "well if hes so bad then why use him?" I like him, know him, and use him well vs a lot of characters. Thats why.

 

[Eazy23]

Nah I know you're not johning man.

Its just that people seem to forget that not every smasher has the same access to experience as others. If you don't know what you are doing vs a character, in many cases, how good your char is won't matter.

I never said sonic was good lolol. I'm fairly certain that he is not a good character on paper. But the fact that most people do not have a good sonic playing buddy that offers them familiarity in fighting the char or something like that makes it so that many people won't be able to exploit sonic to the fullest extent.

Also, I actually do agree that most low tier characters get very far based on the fact that people do not know how to fight their character. People who main low tier characters are also much more campy by nature, for their characters force them to be. I also, in many of them, see smashing flaws, and know that many would not be as successful without their low tier character, if that makes any sense. I'm just being realistic in stating that it is not always the player behind the character that is creating the result of the match.


Honestly, only the most disciplined smashers, and I do not even consider myself to be one although I am indeed one of the most talented, can see the game for what it is on paper, and execute based on that. A huge percent will See sonic spinning and start jumping, then sheilding, then trying to attack lol

Remember at cot4 after I beat blue in a mm with mario? And then you proceeded to take my a$$hole and grind it? One little thing you did I had no idea how to stop, and this literally allowed you to do whatever you wanted to do. It literally took months until I got enough experience to beat your sonic in friendlies.

I'm willing to bet that if you had a best buddy who played smash but wasn't at our level, but you played him everyday, he would have a better shot vs you and sonic in general than a smasher who is much better but a bit confused.

Maybe I am a bit biased because I main marth, and I do not really have an effective and applicable strategy for when I am confused vs a character. People have been fighting my character for like 8 years now, so me being confused vs a char= me getting done doggy style. But even I can realize while fighting someone that they are in many ways clueless to they ways they should be going about the match. From that point on, I not only don't feel like its ME getting the job done, I actively start to find out just how clueless they are haha.

So I guess my basic question is, when you are fighting someone, are you able to tell that they don't know how to fight sonic?If so, how often? What do you personally feel if/when you pick up on this fact? Many people arent mature enough to make an observation like that you know?

 

[Keitaro]

I think Sonic is a bad character but I don't know what works against him too well.

One time I was jabbing and it stopped the sonic, another time I got hit, so after that I just stopped jabbing pretty much.

 

[Inui]

Sonic is bad.

Pick Snake and do nothing and you'll win. That's my strategy these days.

Sonic ***** Ike, though.

 

[_Yes!_]

I hate going Snake vs sonic. He's such a fast annoying little ****...I'd rather go wolf and camp it up

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Nah I know you're not johning man.

Well I know YOU know but it had to be said due to the amount of idiots who read this thread and would think I'm complaining.

Its just that people seem to forget that not every smasher has the same access to experience as others. If you don't know what you are doing vs a character, in many cases, how good your char is won't matter.

I never said sonic was good lolol. I'm fairly certain that he is not a good character on paper. But the fact that most people do not have a good sonic playing buddy that offers them familiarity in fighting the char or something like that makes it so that many people won't be able to exploit sonic to the fullest extent.

Yes and I give them the benefit of the doubt for the first round bc they might not understand how to win, but if they have any of those characters I listed(since they are all common) they should be able to see what works and what doesnt. I don't give them the excuse past round one. His biggest exploit(imo) is shield cancel. We use it to bait. Still, I don't think its that big of a deal that it confuses them enough to give credit to the character.

Also, I actually do agree that most low tier characters get very far based on the fact that people do not know how to fight their character. People who main low tier characters are also much more campy by nature, for their characters force them to be. I also, in many of them, see smashing flaws, and know that many would not be as successful without their low tier character, if that makes any sense. I'm just being realistic in stating that it is not always the player behind the character that is creating the result of the match.

I agree with that but I have no support to back it up. Myself, Pride, Inui, Zucco, and Vex are the good low tier players that I can think of off the top of my head. The thing is we all have higher tier characters that we play too like Diddy, Lucario, MK, and DDD. I don't consider any of us campy. The only way I can see myself being campy would be bc I have to get some space after every attack for the next risk at hoping spin dash connects or they get confused.

I'd never consider myself campy with sonic or diddy. Most of my videos show this anyway.

It might not always be the player but I think in my case it is. I'm not trying to sound cocky. It's not like I'm winning money in singles so I have no reason for arrogance.

Honestly, only the most disciplined smashers, and I do not even consider myself to be one although I am indeed one of the most talented, can see the game for what it is on paper, and execute based on that. A huge percent will See sonic spinning and start jumping, then sheilding, then trying to attack lol

Remember at cot4 after I beat blue in a mm with mario? And then you proceeded to take my a$$hole and grind it? One little thing you did I had no idea how to stop, and this literally allowed you to do whatever you wanted to do. It literally took months until I got enough experience to beat your sonic in friendlies.

I'm willing to bet that if you had a best buddy who played smash but wasn't at our level, but you played him everyday, he would have a better shot vs you and sonic in general than a smasher who is much better but a bit confused.

Yes. People don't realize that I'm not set up with a set time to release spin dash in my mind. I wait for their action first. Still, all of the top characters(A, and S) all have a safe option against this. MK nado, snake jab(every jab actually but snake is the easiest), etc.

Maybe I am a bit biased because I main marth, and I do not really have an effective and applicable strategy for when I am confused vs a character. People have been fighting my character for like 8 years now, so me being confused vs a char= me getting done doggy style. But even I can realize while fighting someone that they are in many ways clueless to they ways they should be going about the match. From that point on, I not only don't feel like its ME getting the job done, I actively start to find out just how clueless they are haha.

So I guess my basic question is, when you are fighting someone, are you able to tell that they don't know how to fight sonic?If so, how often? What do you personally feel if/when you pick up on this fact? Many people arent mature enough to make an observation like that you know?

Well playstyle is also a factor too. All of the notable sonic's play very differently.

Yes I can tell. The easiest way to tell is when it comes to the kill. It is without a doubt the reason why sonic is bad. There are 3 ways to kill at normal killing percents(100-130 ish). Fsmash, Spin dash to Bair, and or just Bair. Fsmash is very hard to hit with unless they run into it. Spin to Bair works well, and Bair is used a ton of times before it connects bc they are all obvious kill moves that get punished and avoided. If they run into Fsmash, they have no idea what they are doing, if I bait it they should still expect it, spin dash to Bair isnt a bad thing to fall for, and Bair......its just obvious and slow.

Stopping spin dash is the other obvious way to see if they know how to fight sonic. Inui lived to 240% the last time I played him with sonic. I simply couldnt get the hit.

The only thing to do is to either just out play them or think of the exploit you used the least and give it another shot.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I think Sonic is a bad character but I don't know what works against him too well.

One time I was jabbing and it stopped the sonic, another time I got hit, so after that I just stopped jabbing pretty much.

If you're falco that cant happen. His dash will never beat falco's jab except on YI as far as i know.
Double post my bad

 

[Keitaro]

If you're falco that cant happen. His dash will never beat falco's jab except on YI as far as i know.
Double post my bad

I don't know what happened the second time but it scared me into thinking the jab doesn't work.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[Inui]

I hate going Snake vs sonic. He's such a fast annoying little ****...I'd rather go wolf and camp it up

I win with Snake by walking around and doing nothing. Sonic can never kill you and you can just randomly do moves.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I don't know what happened the second time but it scared me into thinking the jab doesn't work.

Thanks for the advice.

Np, if you ever see the spin dash just dash attack it(they cancel) and jab. YI changes things bc of the glitch so I dont know if it works there.

 

[Max Ketchum]

This thread = example of why I respect Kai and Eazy.

Last time I fought Wes, my MK lived to 195%. <_<

 

[Inui]

Last time I fought Kai, my MK lived to like 220% or some **** roflmao... Kai might remember the exact percentage, but it was stupidly high.

 

[Max Ketchum]

What they say about Wes is true. His downfall is that he fiends for kills. He rocked me up until about 105, then just started fsmashing and bairing...

 

[Inui]

What they say about Wes is true. His downfall is that he fiends for kills. He rocked me up until about 105, then just started fsmashing and bairing...

He had the same exact problem in Melee. He'd combo you to 100% with Samus and then stop being safe and spam for kills.

He really should finally work on that...

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Last time I fought Kai, my MK lived to like 220% or some **** roflmao... Kai might remember the exact percentage, but it was stupidly high.

It was 240%-249%. I dont remember exactly but I know it was in that range. Uair from the ground kills MK at like 190....i just couldnt hit with dash.

 

[Max Ketchum]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Downfall since like...the beginning of time.

 

[Inui]

It was 240%-249%. I dont remember exactly but I know it was in that range. Uair from the ground kills MK at like 190....i just couldnt hit with dash.

LOL @ people thinking Sonic isn't low tier

 

[Kaiber Kop]

LOL @ people thinking Sonic isn't low tier

I noticed Battle Royal has him banned for their low tier event. I'm not going to bother arguing with them. The only reasonable PA players that I would even bother talking to are Cam and Chibo but Cam mains sonic so it'd appear as bias, and Chibo follows the tier list.

Ahh well

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I noticed Battle Royal has him banned for their low tier event. I'm not going to bother arguing with them. The only reasonable PA players that I would even bother talking to are Cam and Chibo but Cam mains sonic so it'd appear as bias, and Chibo follows the tier list.

Ahh well

Not me? I supported him being legal :/

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Not me? I supported him being legal :/

I've never seen you host an event or provide your influence on anything that doesn't have to do with bowser so no

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I've never seen you host an event or provide your influence on anything that doesn't have to do with bowser so no

I'm sorry talking with the tournament hosts over AIM, trying to get sonic legal based on a few of his matchups in low tiers means I haven't done anything, I've also expressed my opinion on him in low tiers in the thread, which I WANT him legal. Whatever. Although I guess its not your fault that you havent seen it considering it was on AIM, but this rude response is somewhat annoying.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I'm sorry talking with the tournament hosts over AIM, trying to get sonic legal based on a few of his matchups in low tiers means I haven't done anything, I've also expressed my opinion on him in low tiers in the thread, which I WANT him legal. Whatever. Although I guess its not your fault that you havent seen it considering it was on AIM, but this rude response is somewhat annoying.

"I've never seen" Those were my words. It wasn't a rude response but think what you want.

 

[MalcolmM]

Sonics downb beats jabs based on how many charges you do. So basically if you charge it 3 times and hold forward...u will clank falcos jab and snakes jab regardless of stage...reset both characters and powershield any reaction from them that isnt defensive. Shield is frame 1. No offense is that fast.


The defensive mechanics of this game absolutely destroy those horrid sonic b moves especially down b. I mean...most good characters have some sort of head-on way to deal with it, but generally, attacking that "Faux offensive" move with actual offense will only get you punished in the long run. U do not have more mixups in that situation. No1 does. Thats why u should never put urself in that situation.

Kai, just force fear. @ 180 MK can die to faaaaaaaaaaar more things than he can cover with his attacks. Its just a matter of being open to using those moves. Think about it like this. If your @ 180 with MK and sonic even begins to run @ u, what can you do? Tornado will get punished. You cannot shield. You will get grabbed and die. Spotdodge = lingering dsmash. Air = disjointed upair. Half of sonics approaches are running shield so would u risk the aerial? There are aloooooooooooot of things to cover. Or do u shuttle loop? Even the superfast cancel will get grabbed...and flying past him will get upaired. Its a 2 hit move so it will cancel the glide attack and then connect. Feasibly, the character has no way to avoid being killed by sonic. It's the player. Inui, in that specific match, had an amazing read on you. Dont get grounded in habits. Habits are bad enough with good characters, but with low tiers they become real anchors. It's his one winnable matchup vs a good character IMO. Think options not just 3 kill moves. Even down-b in the air kills meta @ 170ish fresh. So if you lose your stock first...and he's @ high % then u have a shield cancelled kill move in the air which u can jump out of if ur in danger. Just helpful hints. Im sure u know all this, but people forget things when they start to look so narrowly @ kill moves. Use weird moves....no1 knows anything about this character anyway.

I don't play sonic. I just know alot about him.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Sonics downb beats jabs based on how many charges you do. So basically if you charge it 3 times and hold forward...u will clank falcos jab and snakes jab regardless of stage...reset both characters and powershield any reaction from them that isnt defensive. Shield is frame 1. No offense is that fast.


The defensive mechanics of this game absolutely destroy those horrid sonic b moves especially down b. I mean...most good characters have some sort of head-on way to deal with it, but generally, attacking that "Faux offensive" move with actual offense will only get you punished in the long run. U do not have more mixups in that situation. No1 does. Thats why u should never put urself in that situation.

Kai, just force fear. @ 180 MK can die to faaaaaaaaaaar more things than he can cover with his attacks. Its just a matter of being open to using those moves. Think about it like this. If your @ 180 with MK and sonic even begins to run @ u, what can you do? Tornado will get punished. You cannot shield. You will get grabbed and die. Spotdodge = lingering dsmash. Air = disjointed upair. Half of sonics approaches are running shield so would u risk the aerial? There are aloooooooooooot of things to cover. Or do u shuttle loop? Even the superfast cancel will get grabbed...and flying past him will get upaired. Its a 2 hit move so it will cancel the glide attack and then connect. Feasibly, the character has no way to avoid being killed by sonic. It's the player. Inui, in that specific match, had an amazing read on you. Dont get grounded in habits. Habits are bad enough with good characters, but with low tiers they become real anchors. It's his one winnable matchup vs a good character IMO. Think options not just 3 kill moves. Even down-b in the air kills meta @ 170ish fresh. So if you lose your stock first...and he's @ high % then u have a shield cancelled kill move in the air which u can jump out of if ur in danger. Just helpful hints. Im sure u know all this, but people forget things when they start to look so narrowly @ kill moves. Use weird moves....no1 knows anything about this character anyway.

I don't play sonic. I just know alot about him.

Down B and hold forward? I know about the charges but holding forward makes it better?

All true but MK isn't a matchup I complain about due to weight. I still maintain the matchup odds I listed. Everything you listed is good to know but thats granted the sonic is playing in top form, or they might get hit.

I actually never thought of using DownB in the air for killing. I just use it for grabs. Good idea.

Even if you didn't use him for 10 years you'd still be the best with him

 

[BIGM1994]

Guys Thursday and Friday of next week i don't have school, if u wanna come to my house on 1 of those days and train its cool with me and kingz. preferably before 5 and on Thursday.

 

[CT Chia]

I follow the tier list to avoid arguments.

I believe Sonic should be in low tier tourneys, but I definitely think Bowser shouldn't be.

The moment I would Sonic would be a deviation from the official tier list, which would open up any character for discussion. I would then remove Bowser, and any character could realistically be in question, and would create far too much arguing, bias, and senseless debating.

That, and I don't even like low tier events as it is so I hardly care.

But fun fact, I will only enter a low tier even if Sonic is allowed. If I held a low tier event at my tourney before the next tier list, I would not allow Sonic.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

I follow the tier list to avoid arguments.

I believe Sonic should be in low tier tourneys, but I definitely think Bowser shouldn't be.

The moment I would Sonic would be a deviation from the official tier list, which would open up any character for discussion. I would then remove Bowser, and any character could realistically be in question, and would create far too much arguing, bias, and senseless debating.

That, and I don't even like low tier events as it is so I hardly care.

But fun fact, I will only enter a low tier even if Sonic is allowed. If I held a low tier event at my tourney before the next tier list, I would not allow Sonic.

Yes I know. Just to clear it up, I wasn't trying to be disrespectful when I mentioned your name. I just know you've stated that you follow the list exactly how it is so I mentioned it.

 

[Inui]

I follow the tier list to avoid arguments.

I believe Sonic should be in low tier tourneys, but I definitely think Bowser shouldn't be.

The moment I would Sonic would be a deviation from the official tier list, which would open up any character for discussion. I would then remove Bowser, and any character could realistically be in question, and would create far too much arguing, bias, and senseless debating.

That, and I don't even like low tier events as it is so I hardly care.

But fun fact, I will only enter a low tier even if Sonic is allowed. If I held a low tier event at my tourney before the next tier list, I would not allow Sonic.

Sonic has far better match-ups than Bowser in a low tier tournament.

You banned MK, which nobody really wants, and didn't avoid arguments. Something like allowing Sonic...you could easily do and just be like "it's how it is, too bad, don't enter if you don't like it."

 

[Shadow 111]

Even if you didn't use him for 10 years you'd still be the best with him

completely unnecessary. i call meatriding, good sir!

trying to make it to doom's halloween thing cuz i have no plans for that day .

 

[Kaiber Kop]

completely unnecessary. i call meatriding, good sir!

trying to make it to doom's halloween thing cuz i have no plans for that day .

Call it what you will.

Pft you're going for easy money. Don't lie

 

[Shadow 111]

Call it what you will.

Pft you're going for easy money. Don't lie

haha, lies. i really just have nothing to do and figured going to a tournament has to be better than doing nothing. i wanna hang out with everybody anyways.
making some money would be nice though

 

[Kaiber Kop]

haha, lies. i really just have nothing to do and figured going to a tournament has to be better than doing nothing. i wanna hang out with everybody anyways.
making some money would be nice though

More babble .

"im not going to anything anymore"

sees dooms*

"ill go to hang out"

 

[Shadow 111]

More babble .

"im not going to anything anymore"

sees dooms*

"ill go to hang out"

lmao, might not be going anymore actually =/.
unless i pull a VC again. "i'm not going" right before the tourney then "i'm going!" at the last minute, lol.
i really have no way to get there. my mom doesn't want me traveling through the city alone, especially on halloween.

 

[Turbo Ether]

my mom doesn't want me traveling through the city alone, especially on halloween.

This one is still just a child. Too pure for us Cobras.

 

[Zucco]

nooooooooooooooooooo! my partner! you gots to go!

 

[Dark Fawful]

*Forum Name - Dark Fawful
(preferred name) - Fawful
*Which game you play actively- Brawl
*County: Morris County
*City: Parsippany
Contact Info: fawfulchortles@yahoo.com
**Crew: None

 

[bschung]

the timer lol.

It happens naturally against DDD

Out of context maybe, but quoted for truth

 

[Cable]

Im trying to make top 5 this season!! :D