NJ Finder - Tournament Finder Updated (10/8) See new thread for Brawl Rankings

[Eazy23]

From what I myself deduct from the PR system is this.

If I fight keitaro, chibo, Inui, vex, Pierce, Atomsk, adhd, and neo in tournament and lose to them all.

I have not hurt myself by losing to any of them, rather I have hurt myself by NOT capitalizing on the oppurtunity to give myself notable wins. So in this case, it may be said that losses may hurt a player. However, if a player is consistent, they will have these notable wins. If they are not, they are penalized simply because they would not be mentioned as a player with any notable wins, not because they lost to so and so.

 

[CT Chia]

Yea, I'm not as much of a **** as I used to be about things.

But I do feel that you're current disagreement with any of this new stuff is just your personality rather than you seeing flaw in the logic. I will however, continue to try to convince you.

It might be a surprise to some people that their loss in low tiers is being counted for the rankings, and I'm sure this sounds bad to some people. But lets break this down.

Can we agree that regardless of whether or not a player like vex, pryde, rhyme, Cam, blue, Rule34, malcom were aware of a set counting for rankings, they would indeed be playing their best because they want to win money?

Can we agree that these players more than likely would be using their respective low tier characters in normal singles?

If so, can we agree that beating most of these players is an accomlishment?

If all of these premises are accepted, with the additional premise that the loss does not hurt their reputation any more than the fact that they lost already does, can we agree that a player should be rewarded for said accomplishment?

There are many instances in which mid season changes can cause problems. I however, do not see the problem in this. Who is being hurt?

they are unable to use any other chars in low tiers. in the case of vex for example, he might wanna switch to ddd gaw or mk

Darn that's a nice post that should be added to the OP...

go ahead

 

[Inui]

Losing to a player ranked ABOVE you does not hurt you.

Yuuuup. Which is another reason Kai complaining about me counting the win over him hurting him is silly. Me counting it as a win doesn't help me that much, either.

Beating players above you helps you. Losing to players below you hurts you. Losing to players above hurts you only a certain amount based on how much higher they are. Beating players below you only helps you based on how far below you they are.

Basically, rank 1 losing to an unranked player or like rank 15 looks pretty bad and is really good for that lower ranked person. Rank 1 beating rank 15 doesn't matter much at all.

Has anyone ever competed in something online where if you're a way lower rank and you beat someone they get a big cut in points and you get a big boost and if you're way higher and beat someone lower you get very little added to your score? Same concept.

 

[BleachigoZX]

What about beating 4th/6th when you are ranked 15th?

 

[Keitaro]

Losing to a player ranked ABOVE you does not hurt you.

From what I myself deduct from the PR system is this.

If I fight keitaro, chibo, Inui, vex, Pierce, Atomsk, adhd, and neo in tournament and lose to them all.

I have not hurt myself by losing to any of them, rather I have hurt myself by NOT capitalizing on the oppurtunity to give myself notable wins. So in this case, it may be said that losses may hurt a player. However, if a player is consistent, they will have these notable wins. If they are not, they are penalized simply because they would not be mentioned as a player with any notable wins, not because they lost to so and so.

Okay, lets say you, Eazy, beat M2K twice and he beats you twice. But ADHD beats you 3 times loses 0 times, and is 1 to 1 vs M2K in sets.

Are you telling me that M2K's loss to a you (Eazy) doesn't hurt him when ADHD has beaten you?

It does hurt, and if this was all the results for a rankings of a state, it would be 1st ADHD, 2nd M2K, 3rd Eazy.

 

[BIGM1994]

Ah, yes, I forgot about you. The dissenter who bows to me in the end regardless.

Did you forget where you tried to argue against MMs counting? Then we decided that all serious sets involving mains for $5 or more will count towards the rankings. Your memory is apparently terrible.

You leaving the panel would be a godsend, anyways. Bye. You are the worst one by far. You are never on AIM to discuss anything and you're ALWAYS the overrided dissenter, making you next to useless and just an obstacle in the way.

Wow...that's pretty **** stupid..its not like you get paid for being in the panel anyways..im sure he doesn't care and hates you more than ever now

 

[Eazy23]

they are unable to use any other chars in low tiers. in the case of vex for example, he might wanna switch to ddd gaw or mk



go ahead

So this devalues the victory over their main? We do not see players as players regardless of who they are using. If we did...we would count low tiers just like singles. These are EXCEPTIONS, do you understand this? These players are using their mains in tournament. Beating them is an accomplishment, you are doing nothing but repeating the same technicality bs that the people before you have.

I have been a part of many panelist discussions. In my history, I have almost never seen anyone lose a ranking spot because of a loss. It is very very rarely discussed, unless, like myself, you get into the habit of losing 2 scrubs. I can assure you that most panelist, at the end of the discussion, are completely unaware of who every player lost to that season. It plays a very small role( if even that) in the process.

Chibo I honestly would like to be filled in on your ranking process. I usually find it inaccurate. Maybe its because you guys do things so differently over there.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Eventually though the low-tier mainers are going to be playing against some mighty good non low-tier mainers. Think about it.

 

[bajisci]

4. You must enter at least three singles and/or low tier singles tournaments during the season.

u should add that more specific the better :D probably should make one for doubles too

 

[Eazy23]

Okay, lets say you, Eazy, beat M2K twice and he beats you twice. But ADHD beats you 3 times loses 0 times, and is 1 to 1 vs M2K in sets.

Are you telling me that M2K's loss to a you (Eazy) doesn't hurt him when ADHD has beaten you?

It does hurt, and if this was all the results for a rankings of a state, it would be 1st ADHD, 2nd M2K, 3rd Eazy.

Umm that would mean

m2k and I are even in our set count
Adhd and m2k are even in their set count
but adhd has a positive set count vs me

He is the only player in nj in this scenerio with a positive win to loss ratio vs another player in the state. I would assume this is the reason he would be ranked number 1 no?

Regardless, when comparing two players' record vs another, the number of wins one has is going to be directly related to the number of losses the other has. Lets take you vs me for example. If we play this season 5 times, and you win all 5. It is not seen as me losing 5 times to you, but you winning 5 times vs me. Good for you but..if i go and **** everyone else in NJ, it won't hurt me at all. It will simply be a bigger statement on your part that you have beaten me, right?

 

[Camalange]

Well, I can agree now with what's being said about Low Tiers affecting rankings. Looking at the bigger picture, a player beating a Low Tier main should not be discredited if it's taking place in a Low Tier tournament, that would just support making up excuses/johns.

It makes sense, I guess the thing that irked me the most was this...

Rankings Rules

...not being made obvious to the whole community. Not every player competing was aware of Low Tier matches being considerable for rankings. However, I can see now where Eazy/Inui are coming from. A Low Tier main losing should not have an excuse for losing just because it's a Low Tier event. I still think that maybe next season Low Tiers should have a slight impact on rankings, and not start doing it now mid season. I also think it should only be considered very slighly since Low Tier events removes an option of a player to CP...That's just my opinion, take it as you will. So many factors to consider -_-

 

[Keitaro]

Yuuuup. Which is another reason Kai complaining about me counting the win over him hurting him is silly. Me counting it as a win doesn't help me that much, either.

Beating players above you helps you. Losing to players below you hurts you. Losing to players above hurts you only a certain amount based on how much higher they are. Beating players below you only helps you based on how far below you they are.

Kai losing to you can definitely be bad.

You are ranked higher for the past season. What does that have to do with this new one? Just about nothing honestly. I've seen Pierce go from 7th to 14th one season. That season he got 14th it wasn't all that great to beat Pierce. Same as if you, Inui, if you'd place 15th this season. Times change, we aren't going to rank you based off you being ranked #1 or ranked #15 last season.

Bleachigo is cleary better than rank #15. Am I gonna go "whatever, I beat the rank #15. Next!" or am I gonna go "****, he was hard, and he beat Zucco in mm, DMBrandon, and Blue" he's good)? Think about it.

 

[fkacyan]

Kai losing to you can definitely be bad.

You are ranked higher for the past season. What does that have to do with this new one? Just about nothing honestly. I've seen Pierce go from 7th to 14th one season. That season he got 14th it wasn't all that great to beat Pierce. Same as if you, Inui, if you'd place 15th this season. Times change, we aren't going to rank you based off you being ranked #1 or ranked #15 last season.

Bleachigo is cleary better than rank #15. Am I gonna go "whatever, I beat the rank #15. Next!" or am I gonna go "****, he was hard, and he beat Zucco in mm, DMBrandon, and Blue" he's good)? Think about it.

If you're ranked higher, clearly you should be consistently beating / going close or even with the people below you (The closer, the more even). If you're losing to them, odds are you shouldn't be ranked higher.

 

[ksizl4life]

Im on keitaros side. otherwise ill count beating m2k if i beat his mk in brawl+ XD just kidding of course. but no, kai and vex have other mains and its not gauranteed they would use their low tiers in real tourney. suck these balls.

just make a dam PR for low tiers and then eventually brawl+ lmao

 

[CT Chia]

Chibo I honestly would like to be filled in on your ranking process. I usually find it inaccurate. Maybe its because you guys do things so differently over there.

its been a mess till recently

the last rankings had a few really big problems and controversies, and it was near impossible to settle them properly as we didnt have exact ranking guidelines laid out at the start of the season (and there was a prob with some panelists flat out not caring and not truly participating in the convo but thats besides the point).

when we noticed there was a prob the panelists got together on aim and made a new list of guidelines to follow for each ranking period beyond that, starting with the summer one ending at the end of the month. we came to an agreement, and made the following guidelines:

-list should reflect current skill over avg skill in season
-shorter rankings period for more current information
-no eligibility requirements - discretion of panel
-no inner area MMs
-slight character johns for tourney only - no MM char johns
-needs proof for MMs - have a panelist watch
-tourney to count you must spend at least $10 to be in singles
-matches: consistancy > top wins > worst losses
-tie breaking: player v player > panelist opinion > doubles
-char in tourney does not matter. its up to the player to enter or not
-low tier tourneys do not count at all
-The three areas are ToS, ToE, KC - for pitts, everything is OOA lol

the only part being rediscussed is "-char in tourney does not matter. its up to the player to enter or not" with the mk ban debate. for clarification on anything else feel free to ask

 

[Inui]

What about beating 4th/6th when you are ranked 15th?

You are often more self-centered than me these days.

That is not a good thing.

u should add that more specific the better :D probably should make one for doubles too

Not needed. You need three of each total and two in NJ for each list. Quite simple.

Kai losing to you can definitely be bad.

You are ranked higher for the past season. What does that have to do with this new one? Just about nothing honestly. I've seen Pierce go from 7th to 14th one season. That season he got 14th it wasn't all that great to beat Pierce. Same as if you, Inui, if you'd place 15th this season. Times change, we aren't going to rank you based off you being ranked #1 or ranked #15 last season.

Bleachigo is cleary better than rank #15. Am I gonna go "whatever, I beat the rank #15. Next!" or am I gonna go "****, he was hard, and he beat Zucco in mm, DMBrandon, and Blue" he's good)? Think about it.

No, it's not bad, because I'm ranked higher, I'm better, and I'm supposed to win.

So what you are saying is...using the current rankings to help make the next list is wrong? Then what are we basing a player's value on? We have to use something to determine the worth of a win, and the current list is a good reference point.

Im on keitaros side. otherwise ill count beating m2k if i beat his mk in brawl+ XD just kidding of course. but no, kai and vex have other mains and its not gauranteed they would use their low tiers in real tourney. suck these balls.

just make a dam PR for low tiers and then eventually brawl+ lmao

Objection overruled. The side with better logic and more supporting evidence will be declared the winner.

 

[Eazy23]

Kai losing to you can definitely be bad.

You are ranked higher for the past season. What does that have to do with this new one? Just about nothing honestly. I've seen Pierce go from 7th to 14th one season. That season he got 14th it wasn't all that great to beat Pierce. Same as if you, Inui, if you'd place 15th this season. Times change, we aren't going to rank you based off you being ranked #1 or ranked #15 last season.

Bleachigo is cleary better than rank #15. Am I gonna go "whatever, I beat the rank #15. Next!" or am I gonna go "****, he was hard, and he beat Zucco in mm, DMBrandon, and Blue" he's good)? Think about it.

This is just letting people know how you see yourself tbh. If you are number 4 in new jersey, and have a good idea on the skill level of everyone else, watching people ranked lower than you do well won't surprise you. If you feel you are lucky to be ranked where you are, you will find yourself shocked and stuck in agog when you beat some of the lower ranked people.

Regardless, people are not ranked based off of beating higher ranked players. It is about who has made a name for themselves that season. But LOSING, I repeat, LOSING alone, does not negatively alter how someone is ranked outside of the fact that it limits the number of notable wins someone will have.

 

[_Yes!_]

Okay so as far as the rule in question, I believe that being rule #7 on Inui's shiz, Ksizzle and Keitaro disagree, Eazy and Inui agree. Pierce?

 

[ksizl4life]

its a ****ing side event. it shouldnt mean ****. get out of your houses.

 

[Inui]

Okay so as far as the rule in question, I believe that being rule #7 on Inui's shiz, Ksizzle and Keitaro disagree, Eazy and Inui agree. Pierce?

Final judgment will be rendered by me!

The two lesser debaters, with less supporting evidence, and worse logic against the better debaters with more evidence and more logic? It's easy. We win.

Pierce is much smarter than those two dissenters. He will choose the proper side.

its a ****ing side event. it shouldnt mean ****. get out of your houses.

I'm sorry that you don't have good low tiers and disregard a 56 man tournament for money.

My "side event" had more entrants than most normal tournaments and it was extremely competitive. Eat that.

 

[_Yes!_]

Final judgment will be rendered by me!

The two lesser debaters, with less supporting evidence, and worse logic against the better debaters with more evidence and more logic? It's easy. We win.

lol

Okay so as far as the rule in question, I believe that being rule #7 on Inui's shiz, Ksizzle and Keitaro disagree, Eazy and Inui agree. Pierce?

1234567

 

[Eazy23]

It is a side event to who? You think Rhyme, blue, kai, vex, etc take low tiers as a side event? You are a panelist correct? please attempt to be neutral.

 

[Inui]

It is a side event to who? You think Rhyme, blue, kai, vex, etc take low tiers as a side event? You are a panelist correct? please attempt to be neutral.

I take low tiers more seriously than normal singles because I have more pride in my Ike than any other character.

I know for sure that Rhyme cares a lot. I know Blue cares. Kai cares. Vex gets annoyed about it, but cares. Even Snakeee actually tries hard and cares.

Our state (hell, our whole region) is ultra competitive and most of us have good low tiers and try in low tier tournaments.

Low tier events are more popular here than anywhere on the planet.

They obviously matter.

Edit: The two panelists with no low tiers are against it. The two panelists with good low tiers are for it.

Pierce has a good low tier.

Do the math. It's over.

 

[Atomsk_92]

Wow i just woke up and saw this XD. I'm def taking low tiers seriously now.

 

[BleachigoZX]

Inui I joke around A LOT, ask anyone who speaks with me. They all know I joke around alllll the time like that. I don't take this ranking stuff that serious, since I'm already on it, but I am trying to get top 10.[So like I am serious when it comes to playing, but not outside of playing.]

 

[Inui]

Wow i just woke up and saw this XD. I'm def taking low tiers seriously now.

If you have a serious and legit low tier, people beating you in low tiers will matter. Keep that in mind.

Inui I joke around A LOT, ask anyone who speaks with me. They all know I joke around alllll the time like that. I don't take this ranking stuff that serious, since I'm already on it, but I am trying to get top 10.[So like I am serious when it comes to playing, but not outside of playing.]

There is always some truth in jest.

 

[CT Chia]

then make a third pr for low tiers and leave each event as be

and why the hell not, add low tier doubles pr since inui runs this state

 

[_Yes!_]

Don't do it! Sandbagging is way more fun

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52NjqqxW3xM

edit: to trevor

 

[Inui]

then make a third pr for low tiers and leave each event as be

and why the hell not, add low tier doubles pr since inui runs this state

Go away.

You are not wanted here.

People have been IMing me like "Chibo is annoying, why is he posting in our rankings discussion?" Of course I openly say this every time you post in here, roflmao! I don't hide my opinions. You annoy the living hell out of me on the boards because you seem to devote yourself to clashing with me all the time.

The ONLY thing you do is post stuff nobody cares about and DIRECTLY AND BLATANTLY AND STUPIDLY CLASH WITH ME. You do nothing else. Nothing you post is ever considered or productive.

GO AWAY.

 

[ksizl4life]

you dont know if i have a good low tier you ignorant fool. i never entered one...well maybe one where i went last hit with inui last game never using sonic before lmfao

their boring and dumb. im entitled to my own opinion

 

[Inui]

you dont know if i have a good low tier you ignorant fool. i never entered one. i never entered one...well maybe one where i went last hit with inui last game never using sonic before lmfao

Oh, you did. At Max's house. You lost to me. It was only "close" because I used Ganondorf (free win for you). I'm also quite certain you did poorly at the first event I had low tiers last winter (43 people entered that, rofl). The 2nd and 1st largest low tier events in the history of Smash both happened at my events.

If you have a good low tier...bring it. Put your money where you mouth is.

Let's go, kid.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

It is a side event to who? You think Rhyme, blue, kai, vex, etc take low tiers as a side event? You are a panelist correct? please attempt to be neutral.

Yes, I do.

 

[Eazy23]

its been a mess till recently

the last rankings had a few really big problems and controversies, and it was near impossible to settle them properly as we didnt have exact ranking guidelines laid out at the start of the season (and there was a prob with some panelists flat out not caring and not truly participating in the convo but thats besides the point).

when we noticed there was a prob the panelists got together on aim and made a new list of guidelines to follow for each ranking period beyond that, starting with the summer one ending at the end of the month. we came to an agreement, and made the following guidelines:

-list should reflect current skill over avg skill in season

then whats the point of having a season?

-shorter rankings period for more current information

If this is the case, why not just go with avg skill over season?

-no inner area MMs

y not?

-slight character johns for tourney only - no MM char johns

I like. But its a deep subject.

-needs proof for MMs - have a panelist watch

y?

-low tier tourneys do not count at all

lol

-The three areas are ToS, ToE, KC - for pitts, everything is OOA lol

huh?

 

[Inui]

Yes, I do.

Lies.

I know you enter them with the full intention of winning money and even taking first, which means you care a lot. Don't deny it, please.

 

[Eazy23]

you dont know if i have a good low tier you ignorant fool. i never entered one...well maybe one where i went last hit with inui last game never using sonic before lmfao

their boring and dumb. im entitled to my own opinion

who are you talking 2?

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Lies.

I know you enter them with the full intention of winning money and even taking first, which means you care a lot. Don't deny it, please.

Nope truth. I see low tiers as a side event.

 

[BleachigoZX]

There is always some truth in jest.

Then you haven't met "The Legendary Bleachigo"

 

[Inui]

Nope truth. I see low tiers as a side event.

Actions speak louder than words.

That's about all I have to say about that.

 

[Eazy23]

Does seeing low tiers as a side event = not trying, playing soft? That is what is important.

 

[Kaiber Kop]

Does seeing low tiers as a side event = not trying, playing soft? That is what is important.

No.

This is a seperate question.