Social NintenZone Social 2.0: Remember That Time Candle Jack Visited Swa

[Deleted member]

The rating system only does so much when it's aired for everyone to see. The rating system is also flawed in that you can take your children to see Rated R movies as long as the parent says it's okay. The ESRB has that same issue.

Why is it flawed? It's because it doesn't actually stop anyone from doing anything. It's intention as you mention isn't used correctly. So we may have something intended for 17 and up, but as far as most people are concerned that matters not, especially to a child who unsupervised will latch onto these things as they are curious.

Parenting needs to be more involved, but kids can be crafty as well. I've seen numerous times walking into GameStop that a kid suckers their parents into buying a M rated game while the parent is displeased with doing so, they submit to the kid so they don't upset the kid.

Ratings don't do much of anything as far as our execution as consumers go.



Actually, a video game itself doesn't make someone violent. A person who doesn't know how to entirely grasp the concept of what is being perceived to them and thus, as I mentioned previously, lacking mental fortitude built up before being exposed to these violent or sexual things ends up impacting them if they aren't ready. It does impact things.

As far as desensitize, that's a feeling you probably feel when you witness content such as this. For me? I've played all kinds of games such as this and I've never gotten desensitized by it. Usually if I find something incredibly wrong, it stays that way if it truly is wrong or bad.

Most people can make the distinction between a video game and reality, but that is not to say an influence of fiction cannot influence someone who is understands what is reality. I watch the Yu-Gi-Oh! anime and will play the cards in real life because of the influence the show gave me. It's not so cut and dry as that, but just about anything can have an effect on you for better or for worse. If a kid is struggling with his life and or many of the other variables, ends up approaching something sexual like porn or violence at a young age and uses this as his scapegoat, it will affect him or her in one way or the other.

I personally know people who had this happen to them and it took them half their life to overcome it.



Censoring should be done if the audience will be bothered by it and if that audience is the general public. For those that truly want to see the uncensored version, there should be a medium available which usually is via unrated or uncensored variants. The general public cannot so easily control what comes on the TV outside or shutting it off, and there's no telling what a kid might watch at a friend's or whatever.

It's better to watch out for something that might harm people mentally over those that are wanting to see something more graphic because it's the true material.


Japan only recently began making minors illegal to engage sex with and many got away with it. I agree with a lot of Japan values, but a lot of the sexual stuff over there I tend to not agree with. That's another subject for another time, though.

Bad parenting is not the rating system's fault, nor does it make it flawed.

If a film is explicitly for people over 18, then it's for people over 18. Censoring it cause you're afraid minor might see it absurd.

If a parent buys a game that has sexual content and nudity for their child, then it's again, the parent's fault. A fair warning is given, if they choose to ignore it, then that's their choicd, and should bear the consequences.

The government doesn't exist to protect people from their own ignorance.

In addition, while I agree that graphic images will have a profound impact on children who hardly have a grip on reality, as they grow older they will mature and it won't affect them.

For example, I watched IT, when I was 8 years old, and it scared me ****less. I watched it later all the way through as an adult, and I laughed my ass off at how bad it was.

If violence truly was as traumatic as you say, then I would have been getting into fights at school thanks to Dragonball rather than being an "inside kid."

If anything, I would argue that censorship, on behalf of my parents and religious values, had a much more NEGATIVE impact on my personal development than otherwise. Growing up, I was scared to touch girls, and it wasn't till I finally moved out that I learned sex was no big deal.

I believe it's important to gradually expose people to the world. Especially one as cruel as ours. Otherwise, you're just shutting away all the bad stuff, and prentending to live in a bubble of happiness while everything goes to ****. That level of ignorance is simply not conductive to productivity.

We all had our first time watching an R rated film. We all had our parents telling us to close our eyes during a sex scene in a film, only to peek and get a glimpe at the actresses glorious tiddies. And we were all caught during out first time watching porn only to have our parents yell at us. We a had that one crazy friend who had pay per view and we watched a porno flick at their that one time when we were 12.

It's all part of growing up, and kids wanna grow up, and it's fine to let them. Restricting kids too much in what they do actually has an inverse effect on their development than otherwise. They don't grow up, they mature less quickly, and they remain shut away from the realities of the world.

As for the general audience, again, how do you even define that when everyone has different value systems?

 

[Opossum]

Still on the topic of censorship, I'm pretty sure there have been cases of non-Japanese games to have been censored in Japan for whatever reason, usually realistic violence.

Can't recall any particular case, but I remember reading about it somewhere.

If I remember correctly, didn't they heavily censor God of War?

 

[Deleted member]

I remember I watched Coraline when I was younger and I never recovered from the trauma
No, actually, **** that movie
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR KIDS
WHEN DID IT GO WRONG?

 

[Deleted member]

I remember I watched Coraline when I was younger and I never recovered from the trauma
No, actually, **** that movie
IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FOR KIDS
WHEN DID IT GO WRONG?

The fact that I watched Coraline after graduating from hs makes me feel really goddamn old right now...

 

[Dravidian]

I always found it wierd that so many people say censorship (read changes) is bad because it alters the creator's initial vision. The thing is, we seldom know what that initial vision is and there are plenty of cases where a creator (or the people paying him/her) changes things pre-release to try to appeal to a larger or more specific audience. I mean when you look at initial concept art and compare it to final release there's usually a great difference. There's likely to be a difference between the initial idea and both the early concepts and final product.

It's a change from the initial release not necessarily a change in the original vision.

I disagree on both counts.

First off, if something has violence, sex, or content not appropriate for children, then it's clearly not meant for children in the first place, and thus, should not be broadcast to then in the first place.

This is why the rating system exists.

Simply label it with the appropriate rating, and let the intended audience enjoy it as it's meant to.

2nd, it has been proven time and again that violence in videogames, cinema, books, etc... has no correlation to gang violence or making people more violent and so forth.

The only thing it truly does, is it desensitizes people to it. Is that good or bad? Well, it's a bit of both, but it addresses your last point.

A videogame or cinematic depiction of violence is just that, fiction, and it pales in comparison to the real thing. There is no account for the stfling fear and the adrenalin rush felt during a true fight or flight scenario. And that's because humans are able to make a distinction between fiction and reality.

Lastly, again, how do you objectively qualify something as good or bad when the values of society are always changing? Even if everyone collectively agrees at one point that something is worth censoring, many years down the line, they might feel otherwise.

For example, did you know that at some point, showing two people kiss on film was always considered too risque, and would always be covered up or even edited out?

Look how far we've come...

In addition, I'll also cite censorship in Japanese porn as an example of evolving values in society. Only reason they're still censoring it is cause no politician wants to be the perv that made uncensored porn legal.

I partially agree. Especially when it comes to rating. The issue is that because different regions and cultures have different beliefs and values making a standard is difficult or may require revision. A mature title in one region could be the equivalent of AO in another.

And there's a lot of odd overlap. People keep saying that legal age in Japan is 13/16 (I dont remember which) when that is only partially true. That age is old enough to be in a relationship with an older person and/or engage in graveur activities. They cant legally, as far as I know, engage in intercourse with that older person or be in adult movies until 17+.

Honestly, the very existence of a rating system requires certain ideas to be "censored" if they want to meet a rating and actually have their game on store shelves (sex scenes in a kiddie game is considered a no-no regardless of personal beliefs) and is arguably a form of censorship in and of itself (deciding who should see x, y, or z).

And that ties into your point about objective qualification of values. The fact that values change over time doesnt matter. Over the years values of things fluctuate and seldom stick to one thing. And it's not hard to guage the general consensus of an era. The laws/rules/whatever only need to match the values of the era they exist in. And historically they've changed to meet values accordingly, albeit with a relatively slight delay (3-10 years).

At the end of the day I personally believe censorship to be either wrong or ok on a case-by-case basis. But I also think that people shouldnt simply accept something just because that's how it was given to them or because it's the "original vision". People are free to voice their opinion, though some opinions are better than others

That said, I do believe that when people complain about censorship they need to not only say why that particular instance of censorship or alteration was bad, but also why keeping it in is good.

I hear too many people complaining that "censorship is always bad", but no one wants to say "why can't my 12/13 year old character show her underboob" or "the 13 year old in a bikini is essential to the game". If the only reasons given amount to "change is bad" or "Be more open" then I personally don't believe those reasons unsatisfactory. Recently the closest thing to a good reason was a scene in Fatal Frame explaining that the character was a graveur model. I personally believe the scene is useless, but I can at least understand why people may want that extra explanation.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

KenboCalrissian
Hey, that's true. Tweek was totally calm at some times there. I really do hope that means he is gay, and that he will stay with Craig. Honestly, it would be surprisingly cute for South Park<3 Or maybe all that Tweek x Craig art just made my inner Yaoi Fanboy show. -w-

And what you said about Cartman is true as well. If only his ending scene wasn't so disturbing. XD

I wouldn't hope for Tweak to stay with Craig if Craig is not really gay. I would hope for him to find someone willing to truly appreciate him.

http://nintendoeverything.com/xenoblade-chronicles-x-lins-outfits-changed-in-the-west/

inb4 old dudes complaining that the game is ruined.

Dude, if it makes me have to slam my browser shut at work and consider purging my history... it's too much.

Call me 'old' if you like, but I play games to, you know, enjoy games. If I want porn, I'll look up porn. I don't like when peanut butter gets in my chocolate.

 

[Frostwraith]

If I remember correctly, didn't they heavily censor God of War?

Yeah, I had heard something about it.

I think some blood and gore was cut out. Some other games also had blood recolored to less realistic colors.

Basically, Japan is more adverse to realistic violence whereas the West is more adverse to sexual stuff.

Though I have watched plenty of anime with blood, it's often more exaggerated and less realistic. Not to mention the fact the characters are less realistically designed and such. Some anime adaptations of manga have had censoring in regards to the usage of blood (or violence overall, but mainly blood).

 

[New_Dumal]

My little brother was shocked with Coraline too. I never watched =(
It's good ?
(Yes, I think that discuss movies is more entertaining than discuss censorship)

 

[Strofirko]

Coraline makes you have buttonphobia.

 

[Naoshi]

did someone here used the SJW term unironically?


I thought we were better than this guys


also good on Nintendo for that XCX censorship. the costume itself remains the same on everyone else anyhow from my understanding

 

[Opossum]

Yeah, I had heard something about it.

I think some blood and gore was cut out. Some other games also had blood recolored to less realistic colors.

Basically, Japan is more adverse to realistic violence whereas the West is more adverse to sexual stuff.

Though I have watched plenty of anime with blood, it's often more exaggerated and less realistic. Not to mention the fact the characters are less realistically designed and such. Some anime adaptations of manga have had censoring in regards to the usage of blood (or violence overall, but mainly blood).

That's the really odd part though. I think Japan censored the sex minigame with Aphrodite in God of War 3. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if they toned down the gore as well. The games are pretty brutal.

 

[Kenith]

http://nintendoeverything.com/xenoblade-chronicles-x-lins-outfits-changed-in-the-west/

inb4 old dudes complaining that the game is ruined.

Yeaaahh...I think this is justified.
Pretty sure 13 is underage even for Japan and I really don't see the point of those costumes, so yeah the change was a good idea...

 

[Deleted member]

I always found it wierd that so many people say censorship (read changes) is bad because it alters the creator's initial vision. The thing is, we seldom know what that initial vision is and there are plenty of cases where a creator (or the people paying him/her) changes things pre-release to try to appeal to a larger or more specific audience. I mean when you look at initial concept art and compare it to final release there's usually a great difference. There's likely to be a difference between the initial idea and both the early concepts and final product.

It's a change from the initial release not necessarily a change in the original vision.



I partially agree. Especially when it comes to rating. The issue is that because different regions and cultures have different beliefs and values making a standard is difficult or may require revision. A mature title in one region could be the equivalent of AO in another.

And there's a lot of odd overlap. People keep saying that legal age in Japan is 13/16 (I dont remember which) when that is only partially true. That age is old enough to be in a relationship with an older person and/or engage in graveur activities. They cant legally, as far as I know, engage in intercourse with that older person or be in adult movies until 17+.

Honestly, the very existence of a rating system requires certain ideas to be "censored" if they want to meet a rating and actually have their game on store shelves (sex scenes in a kiddie game is considered a no-no regardless of personal beliefs) and is arguably a form of censorship in and of itself (deciding who should see x, y, or z).

And that ties into your point about objective qualification of values. The fact that values change over time doesnt matter. Over the years values of things fluctuate and seldom stick to one thing. And it's not hard to guage the general consensus of an era. The laws/rules/whatever only need to match the values of the era they exist in. And historically they've changed to meet values accordingly, albeit with a relatively slight delay (3-10 years).

At the end of the day I personally believe censorship to be either wrong or ok on a case-by-case basis. But I also think that people shouldnt simply accept something just because that's how it was given to them or because it's the "original vision". People are free to voice their opinion, though some opinions are better than others

That said, I do believe that when people complain about censorship they need to not only say why that particular instance of censorship or alteration was bad, but also why keeping it in is good.

I hear too many people complaining that "censorship is always bad", but no one wants to say "why can't my 12/13 year old character show her underboob" or "the 13 year old in a bikini is essential to the game". If the only reasons given amount to "change is bad" or "Be more open" then I personally don't believe those reasons unsatisfactory. Recently the closest thing to a good reason was a scene in Fatal Frame explaining that the character was a graveur model. I personally believe the scene is useless, but I can at least understand why people may want that extra explanation.

Personally I was complaining about Project Zero/Fatal Frame, where the girl in question looks like your average Japanese 20 year old.

It was unnecessary censorship on an 18+ title.

In addition, the censorship of religious references in XCX irks me to no end. It's unneccesary, and it undermines the symbolism intended in the original title, and replaces it with "trying too hard to sound cool" names like that stupid name for the mechas: Skells.

And before people bring up that it was due to legal issues with the name Doll. It's still a cringe-worthy name change. Seriously? Skell? Why not Frame or Exo? Both woulda been fine.

Anyway, personally I'm opposed to censorship because I believe in freedom of thought. In forming your own opinions on your own terms. And having someone predigest things to determine what good or bad for you goes against all that. It's a principle, and though it might start with tiddies, it'll eventually get to worse and more serious stuff. See TTIP.

Yeah, I had heard something about it.

I think some blood and gore was cut out. Some other games also had blood recolored to less realistic colors.

Basically, Japan is more adverse to realistic violence whereas the West is more adverse to sexual stuff.

Though I have watched plenty of anime with blood, it's often more exaggerated and less realistic. Not to mention the fact the characters are less realistically designed and such. Some anime adaptations of manga have had censoring in regards to the usage of blood (or violence overall, but mainly blood).

Funny how in the west we're OK with showing brutal and hateful acts of violence and murder, but we get upset when depicting nudity, and sexual content, when sex is an act of love.

 

[Naoshi]

artistic integrity vision: pandering otaku bait

 

[Deleted member]

artistic integrity vision: pandering otaku bait

Someone's never heard of books and movies being censored.

Also, 4kids One Piece.

For the record, I'm also against dubbing. Subtitles exist for a reason.

 

[Oasis Dealer]

Personally I was complaining about Project Zero/Fatal Frame, where the girl in question looks like your average Japanese 20 year old.

It was unnecessary censorship on an 18+ title.

In addition, the censorship of religious references in XCX irks me to no end. It's unneccesary, and it undermines the symbolism intended in the original title, and replaces it with "trying too hard to sound cool" names like that stupid name for the mechas: Skells.

And before people bring up that it was due to legal issues with the name Doll. It's still a cringe-worthy name change. Seriously? Skell? Why not Frame or Exo? Both woulda been fine.

Anyway, personally I'm opposed to censorship because I believe in freedom of thought. In forming your own opinions on your own terms. And having someone predigest things to determine what good or bad for you goes against all that. It's a principle, and though it might start with tiddies, it'll eventually get to worse and more serious stuff. See TTIP.


Funny how in the west we're OK with showing brutal and hateful acts of violence and murder, but we get upset when depicting nudity, and sexual content, when sex is an act of love.

Idk, I don't find the name change cringe worthy. I actually had the opposite reaction to the names in Japan and here. Skell sounds a bit eh, but I prefer it over dolls (Though I imagine it has a reason why).

Still and will always fall under the thought that changing an outfit in games is the furthest I'll accept censorship. If it barely has an effect on the game, then I could care less. I should actually see what the new outfit looks like in Fatal Frame to get an idea on what happened.

For the record, I'm also against dubbing. Subtitles exist for a reason.

And that is where I'm going to have to completely disagree with you .

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

I always found it wierd that so many people say censorship (read changes) is bad because it alters the creator's initial vision. The thing is, we seldom know what that initial vision is and there are plenty of cases where a creator (or the people paying him/her) changes things pre-release to try to appeal to a larger or more specific audience. I mean when you look at initial concept art and compare it to final release there's usually a great difference. There's likely to be a difference between the initial idea and both the early concepts and final product.

It's a change from the initial release not necessarily a change in the original vision.

When it comes to video games, the idea of the "creator's vision" is extremely overrated. Video games are an interactive medium; the "creator's vision" no longer matters as soon as the player picks up the controller and decides what to do for themselves.

I certainly don't think that being able to see a girl who appears to have developed rather quickly in her underwear is a necessary part of a game like Xenoblade Chronicles X. I dislike censorship on principle because it's a slippery slope and an insult to consumer intelligence (more so when it comes to media aimed at an older audience).

 

[Naoshi]

Someone's never heard of books and movies being censored.

Also, 4kids One Piece.

For the record, I'm also against dubbing. Subtitles exist for a reason.

what an amazing assumption you've made about me

lol where did i say all censorship is good?

 

[wildvine47]

did someone here used the SJW term unironically?


I thought we were better than this guys

Considering there's a large group of awful people (including those who almost drove a teenager to suicide recently in trying to forcibly censor her art) who proudly call themselves SJWs, I'd say it's fair to call an apple an apple.

 

[Parallel_Falchion]

Someone's never heard of books and movies being censored.

Also, 4kids One Piece.

For the record, I'm also against dubbing. Subtitles exist for a reason.

Just here to let you know that if it's artistic integrity you're on about, subtitles are worse than dubs; you're meant to watch a show, not read it. The solution you want isn't subtitles, it's actually learning the language and watching it like that.

 

[KenboCalrissian]

Is it wrong to say that I like the censored outfit on Lin from Xenoblade X better? I don't understand why some people thinks that this getting censored equals butchered.

I mean... we traded a thin, black string for a sensible, fashionable ensemble that actually looks like she wouldn't mind traveling great distances on foot for hours on end and meeting a bunch of strangers in.

I don't think it's unreasonable to prefer the 'censored' version at all in this case.

 

[Naoshi]

Considering there's a large group of awful people (including those who almost drove a teenager to suicide recently in trying to forcibly censor her art) who proudly call themselves SJWs, I'd say it's fair to call an apple an apple.

eh it was more of a kneejerk reaction of mine. ive just seen that term being widely misused all over the internet.

but yeah those kind of people are god awful. was that one about the steven universe fandom?

 

[Shadowwolflink]

Someone's never heard of books and movies being censored.

Also, 4kids One Piece.

For the record, I'm also against dubbing. Subtitles exist for a reason.

Well, the argument can be made that anime or any other show/movie/whatever is meant to be watched, not read.

 

[Naoshi]

wait i totally missed that line.

how can you be inheritly against dubbing? thats really dumb

sure there's a lot of bad dubs, but there's good ones too

but you know what maybe i shouldnt ask the rationale behind it.


i kind of forgot why i began posting less and less here lately

i mean


seriously


dubs shouldnt exist and every anime should only be subtitled? wtf

 

[Champ Gold]

People still have to remember that Elma still has the most risqué costumes there and the one a lot to show for it as well.


If anything, all the fan service stuff is still there just that Lynlee is the only one and it's not like the costumes are straight up cut and that's it. They replaced them as well.

Besides, in XC, Sharla, Melia and Floria all have costumes that are very fan service heavy but the difference is that those characters look much older and act much older.

Lynlee is 13, what did you expect to happen?

 

[JamesDNaux]

I just don't understand people getting offended over something in a video game. Censoring the costume makes as much sense as censoring fatalities in Mortal Kombat back in the day. If the game is intended for adults, what purpose is there for censorship?

 

[Naoshi]

I just don't understand people getting offended over something in a video game. Censoring the costume makes as much sense as censoring fatalities in Mortal Kombat back in the day. If the game is intended for adults, what purpose is there for censorship?

they censored a 13 year old's costume

and underage character


do you really have to ask whats wrong with that costume?

 

[KenboCalrissian]

You know it just hit me.

For as big as she is?

I can't think of a moment where South Park has commented on Taylor Swift.

They've went after pretty much every celebrity, even flash in the pan celebs like Iggy Azalea (She's gonna be gone soon watch.)

But not the perceived sweetheart of America, wonder why?

She was in an episode with Bill Cosby... I'll leave it at that.

 

[Kenith]

I just don't understand people getting offended over something in a video game. Censoring the costume makes as much sense as censoring fatalities in Mortal Kombat back in the day. If the game is intended for adults, what purpose is there for censorship?

Even though the game isn't intended for just adults, as I would be incredibly surprised if Xenoblade Chronicles X was anything more than T.

 

[Deleted member]

Bad parenting is not the rating system's fault, nor does it make it flawed.

If a film is explicitly for people over 18, then it's for people over 18. Censoring it cause you're afraid minor might see it absurd.

If a parent buys a game that has sexual content and nudity for their child, then it's again, the parent's fault. A fair warning is given, if they choose to ignore it, then that's their choicd, and should bear the consequences.

The government doesn't exist to protect people from their own ignorance.

You missed my point. The system in place is designed for kids to not see things they shouldn't see, but it hardly does that because there is no enforcement in place to ensure that is the case. All it really is is a random label on the front of something to the general public. The parents are responsible, but let's be real for a second, kids are also crafty and get away with things. A parent isn't always going to be there 24/7.

Kids can go to school and get introduced to porn and all kinds of other things. Life isn't as simple as expecting everyone to be responsible because in actuality, that isn't the case.

In addition, while I agree that graphic images will have a profound impact on children who hardly have a grip on reality, as they grow older they will mature and it won't affect them.

For example, I watched IT, when I was 8 years old, and it scared me ****less. I watched it later all the way through as an adult, and I laughed my *** off at how bad it was.

If violence truly was as traumatic as you say, then I would have been getting into fights at school thanks to Dragonball rather than being an "inside kid."

This actually falls under another point. Perhaps you had the mental fortitude at the time, or perhaps just by your nature it didn't bother you, but keep in mind not everyone is like you or has your endurance or possible positive upbringing.

I personally know a lot of people that would fight imitating Power Rangers. Power Rangers isn't a bad role model, but this is a very common theme with action for kids. Anything with kids, really. They love to imitate.

If anything, I would argue that censorship, on behalf of my parents and religious values, had a much more NEGATIVE impact on my personal development than otherwise. Growing up, I was scared to touch girls, and it wasn't till I finally moved out that I learned sex was no big deal.

Sex actually is a big deal. Sex can be passion, a bond, it can also lead to heart break if you engage in with it thinking the person you are having sex with is going to be your lover. There are many things surrounding sex that depending on the individual, can lead to a lot of regret. I mean, so many single mothers exist for that very reason. I grew up with a single parent and it was very hard on me.

I believe it's important to gradually expose people to the world. Especially one as cruel as ours. Otherwise, you're just shutting away all the bad stuff, and prentending to live in a bubble of happiness while everything goes to ****. That level of ignorance is simply not conductive to productivity.

But that is how life currently is. There is nothing truly shutting us out entirely from bad things. Bad things happen to us regardless of whatever censorship there is.

We all had our first time watching an R rated film. We all had our parents telling us to close our eyes during a sex scene in a film, only to peek and get a glimpe at the actresses glorious tiddies. And we were all caught during out first time watching porn only to have our parents yell at us. We a had that one crazy friend who had pay per view and we watched a porno flick at their that one time when we were 12.

It's all part of growing up, and kids wanna grow up, and it's fine to let them. Restricting kids too much in what they do actually has an inverse effect on their development than otherwise. They don't grow up, they mature less quickly, and they remain shut away from the realities of the world.

Growing up isn't merely having googly eyes at women's breasts. Restricting someone from engaging in mature things before they are ready to comprehend what is available to them actually encourages development because when they reach that point when they want to have sex, they have a more developed brain and more experience in life and to make better decisions.

I know two kids when I was younger went to watch porn together (10 year olds mind you), engage in male on male sex because of what they were watching and they weren't ready. I have nothing wrong with homosexual sex as there actually is nothing wrong with it, but that is the kind of thing that can happen if the situation presents itself and the parties involved aren't ready for what is being exposed.

As for the general audience, again, how do you even define that when everyone has different value systems?

Stuff that affects a wide group of people, stuff that is logically acceptable to be bad to most rationale people such as murder or ****. It really isn't that hard to view a scope of your audience before hand. I'd rather make people happy then offended if I'm merely trying to entertain them. I'm not saying we should never offend people, but a lot of the things that get censored are merely just sex scenes, stuff that isn't actually important l like a statement to support a movement, or for justice, or to make a wrong right.

 

[Deleted member]

On dubbing.

I would encourage all of you to watch a French or Italian film in their original language.

Linguistic Determinism: language shapes culture, and culture shapes language. Change the language, and you change the cultural influences.

I will admit that some anime has superior dubs to the source material, Samurai Champloo and Code Geass come to mind, but as a rule of thumb, I'll watch something in its original language over a dub.

 

[Naoshi]

On dubbing.

I would encourage all of you to watch a French or Italian film in their original language.

Linguistic Determinism: language shapes culture, and culture shapes language. Change the language, and you change the cultural influences.

I will admit that some anime has superior dubs to the source material, Samurai Champloo and Code Geass come to mind, but as a rule of thumb, I'll watch something in its original language over a dub.

localization is not a bad thing. just watch the subs if you really have a problem with dubs. that option is always there for you

as for me, if theres a dub and its enjoyable to watch, high chances are that i'll watch it over the sub.

 

[JamesDNaux]

they censored a 13 year old's costume

and underage character


do you really have to ask whats wrong with that costume?

Won't someone think of the poor pixels on a screen? What horrible atrocities could happen upon a fictional character.

Seems like the same logic some people use against GTA. It's murder, but it's fake, same thing here.

Even though the game isn't intended for just adults, as I would be incredibly surprised if Xenoblade Chronicles X was anything more than T.

Oh, I thought someone brought up Fatal Frame again. So Xenoblade was censored too?
They should have censored that awful music instead.

 

[Deleted member]

. The solution you want isn't subtitles, it's actually learning the language and watching it like that.

Yeah, because it's so easy to learn a new language just to watch some cartoons
People get paid to dub it and it makes it easier for others, what's wrong?
I can't believe someone would be agaisnt dubs

I'm just gonna say
If something does not affect your life in any way(say, something like dubs or censoring a 13-year old girl's clothes(unless you're a perv)), you should stop whining about it

 

[Naoshi]

Won't someone think of the poor pixels on a screen? What horrible atrocities could happen upon a fictional character.

Seems like the same logic some people use against GTA. It's murder, but it's fake, same thing here.

oh boy the same ol "GTA" argument. except this is on a ****ing child

i assure you i would not feel comfortable murdering kids in GTA

your comparison is piss poor and completely misses what i am getting at

 

[Shadowwolflink]

On dubbing.

I would encourage all of you to watch a French or Italian film in their original language.

Linguistic Determinism: language shapes culture, and culture shapes language. Change the language, and you change the cultural influences.

I will admit that some anime has superior dubs to the source material, Samurai Champloo and Code Geass come to mind, but as a rule of thumb, I'll watch something in its original language over a dub.

I've seen Pan's Labyrinth, it's a foreign language film and it's great, but even that could benefit from a dub because the average English speaking person is less likely to watch something with subtitles.

 

[Substitution]

My opinion on this whole "subs vs dubs" is the same like any other argument that's basically opinions fighting opinions: I don't care. It's the same with consoles vs PC. They both have their good and their bad. There are great examples, and there are awful examples. And either way I'd rather not blow steam over someone's preferences of all things.

 

[Kenith]

Oh, I thought someone brought up Fatal Frame again. So Xenoblade was censored too?
They should have censored that awful music instead.

No, because personally I think the Fatal Frame censorship was unnecessary.
For XCX, though, yeah I think having the 13-year-old wearing a risque bikini is a bit much.

 

[Frostwraith]

Just here to let you know that if it's artistic integrity you're on about, subtitles are worse than dubs; you're meant to watch a show, not read it. The solution you want isn't subtitles, it's actually learning the language and watching it like that.

As someone who's always watched foreign movies (as in, not Portuguese, given my nationality) and now watches anime (in Japanese) with subtitles, I vehemently disagree with this. You're still watching the show: the subtitles only provide the translation of what's being said.

Your logic also carries the implication (at least to me) that one would have to learn a ton of languages to enjoy shows/films from different countries. Does this mean I should learn Japanese to watch anime? Or learn French to watch a French movie? I think it's possible to enjoy a show in the original language, provided with subtitles that represent a faithful translation of what's being said.

Do note that I'm not against dubs (unlike @ManlySpirit), though I dislike dubs done for live-action films/shows given it becomes obvious that the people you see on the screen are not the same as you're hearing and it becomes odd as the lip movement doesn't match the sound. Dubs for animated works, I don't mind and find the idea of different actors from different countries doing their own take on a character interesting.

I've watched plenty of Disney movies dubbed in Portuguese as a kid, and with good voice acting that parents could enjoy, so I can't really speak against dubbed animated features. (Unless the acting is poorly done, of course.)

Ideally, it's best to provide with both options, which is a feasible option and people can have the freedom of choice. Like it dubbed? Watch it dubbed. Prefer hearing the original audio with subtitles? Watch it subbed.

Subbing vs. dubbing debates are quite pointless when there's the viable option of proving both and let the spectators choose.

 

[Firus]

Honestly when you say "censorship" it sounds like government censorship, like keeping the people from speaking out and sharing information, but I'm pretty sure at least 95% of the censorship we're looking at here is based on marketing, and marketing alone. They could up the rating and add warnings if they wanted to keep the same content, but selling it in a different country with different standards means that if they want it to have a rating that makes it easy for their target audience to get it (and I mean, an AO rating is essentially a marketing death sentence), it has to be changed.

There are a lot of people who aren't going to want to read subtitles when watching a show (I rarely encounter this problem, but personally subs are a pain for me to watch because I like to be doing something while I watch a show, and even something that requires as little constant attention as Pokemon makes it hard as hell to read subtitles at the same time), and children, the audience of a good handful of popular dubbed anime, are certainly not going to be reading subs while they watch. Dubs exist so that they can get that content out to a wider audience.

If you want to get localized content that isn't altered, you're pretty much either going to have to make everybody share your values and interests, or find a way for companies to supply content to you without worrying about making money off of it. I think it's likely that the amount of money they lose from people who won't buy altered content is less than what they'd lose if they didn't do that.

Yeah, because it's so easy to learn a new language just to watch some cartoons
People get paid to dub it and it makes it easier for others, what's wrong?
I can't believe someone would be agaisnt dubs

I don't think Parallel_Falchion was arguing that dubbing is bad, just that if you are against dubbing on the grounds of artistic integrity, subbing isn't actually any better. But correct me if I'm wrong.