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vaanrose

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I'm going to be complete honest, I've only played the Final Fantasy games on the SNES, where the gameplay style is similar in some aspects, so yeah when it comes to later game, I'm completely talking out of my ***.

And yeah I'm all for making improvements like you've suggested for Pokemon, I am however not for changing the current way it plays, cause then it wouldn't feel like Pokemon anymore to me. Another idea that I saw that was pretty interesting, was what if moves like say slash, where able to do what cut does on the field as well? Its a pretty good idea honestly it means you aren't locking in moves you don't want on your Pokemon but it also doesn't mean that Game freak is forced to abandon the puzzle aspect of HM puzzles as well, but the way you suggested does work a lot better honestly.
If I were in charge I'd just make every Pokemon capable of using an overworld HM move capable of using the move from the second they're in your party, without it being a battle move. The game already requires you to have a specific badge, so it's not like a Pokemon would be able to cut or fly too early doing it this way. And really, I shouldn't need to teach my Lapras how to swim.
 

Champ Gold

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It was boring.

And it made me realize just how badly paced the Johto games are.

Plus the games just cluttered the menus, the phone system was gosh awful especially for rematches with Gym Leaders (I love having to call at a very specific time that I have to look up on the internet because there are virtually no hints) and you have to GRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND a stupid amount near the end and none at all in the rest of the game.


There's a whole lot the game did right. Terrible was the wrong word, but it's the worst main Pokemon game imo.
>Grinding in Heart Gold
>Ever

I didn't have to grind in Heart Gold by the time I fought Red. If you were smart around the Johto area, you don't need to grind whatsoever if you even out the leveling process at around 55+ and considering you can build up happiness by putting your Pokemon at the top of the party, it wouldn't be that hard to grind. The level scaling is bad but DPP had that same issue a bit and BW suffered from it the worst.

Especially considering you don't need to rematch gym leaders at all to get to a decent levels for your team. Remember, trainers can call you for rematches and that's better than Gen 3 where you have to call everyone for a rematch (FRLG has a rematch finder which I'm upset they didn't bring back) and extra battles like the remaining Rocket members, going into the cave to catch Mewtwo, fighting both Lance and Claire and rematching the Elite 4's new team. AKA where Lance is at his hardest.
 

Chrono.

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The fact that you have to go to a house to make a Pokemon forget moves is pretty bad itself.
 

Guybrush20X6

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I like HMs in concept because they reinforce the whole people and Pokemon working together but from a gameplay standpoint, they bring progression to a crawl, especially in the post game. The Eon flute was a step in the right direction but you know game freak. Always throwing out features everyone liked for no reason.
 
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NintenZ

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Yes, but the Ridley thing was a joke XD

Is this sarcasm?
Because everybody says those are the best Pokemon games (not me).
EDIT: Oh, the answer is above XD
Well I support Bandana Waddle Dee, Waddle Dee and Bandana Dee.
 

Arcanir

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Well no, the problem was that J.B was saying was that they should change Pokemon's main gameplay style, not change how the games play out, which yeah they do need to change that honestly.
If that's what he meant, then I made a mistake as I thought he meant the latter looking at the conversation. The main gameplay doesn't need to change, I will agree, but there are some fundamental problems that were mentioned before that could still be addressed.

HGSS was great imo but it didn't fix some of the problems the original GSC had.

Like the level curve.
Yeah, that's one of the fundamental problems with the remakes, they tend to ignore a lot of the core issues with the original games. For instance, along with HGSS' lack of fixing things like the leveling curve, ORAS didn't address issues like poor balance in the Pokedex, HMs, poor Gym Leader/Elite Four roster make-ups and the like.

Having said that, I do prefer HGSS over ORAS as I have a lot of problems with how the latter was done.
 
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Firus

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It was boring.

And it made me realize just how badly paced the Johto games are.

Plus the games just cluttered the menus, the phone system was gosh awful especially for rematches with Gym Leaders (I love having to call at a very specific time that I have to look up on the internet because there are virtually no hints) and you have to GRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND a stupid amount near the end and none at all in the rest of the game.


There's a whole lot the game did right. Terrible was the wrong word, but it's the worst main Pokemon game imo.
Yeah, I'm not sure I feel as negatively about HGSS as you but I definitely agree in a lot of ways. There are some great features in those games (including the much-loved Pokemon following you thing that Game Freak for some reason decided to never give back to us), the PokeWalkers were a lot of fun back when the games were first big, and the setup with two regions and all is really cool. But HGSS was what made me realize that my nostalgia for Gen II had blinded me to a lot of issues.

And the grinding you have to do in Kanto is honestly just the worst. In every other game the Pokemon tend to get scaled up to where you should be at that point, but there is just God-awful availability of decently leveled wild Pokemon in HGSS (and GSC, obviously). The last time I played HG I literally just potion-stalled Red until his Lapras struggled itself to death because I didn't feel like doing the grinding necessary to stand a decent chance of facing him normally.

I love every single entry in the main Pokemon series tbh, including HGSS, but it's still one of my least favorites.
 

Z25

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It was boring.

And it made me realize just how badly paced the Johto games are.

Plus the games just cluttered the menus, the phone system was gosh awful especially for rematches with Gym Leaders (I love having to call at a very specific time that I have to look up on the internet because there are virtually no hints) and you have to GRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIND a stupid amount near the end and none at all in the rest of the game.


There's a whole lot the game did right. Terrible was the wrong word, but it's the worst main Pokemon game imo.
Fair enough. I wouldn't say it's my favorite entry, but I liked it. I was iffy on the phone system, I just changed my clock for it often. I also used serebii for the numbers, as I didn't want to hunt them. Grinding also wasn't an issue for me, I grind 10 levels before each gym, up to level 60 in each game, so I didn't mind that aspect and was fine for the elite 4 and kanto. I completely understand your point though. I am not on the boat of it's the best pokemon game ever I don't have a favorite main game( maybe platinum or black and white) but I do have a favorite spinoff. That's mystery dungeon explorers of sky.
 

IceBreakerXY

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Platinum was a ****ing masterpiece tho

YES MACH, DRIVE GHOST AND ETERNAL FOR HEISEI, AMAZON AND X! X!X! EKSUUUUUUU
I really hate sinnoh like everything from that region just ruined pokemon to me.The games got just got slow and unfun and yes while platinum fixes a few mistakes i personally just hate the gym design and i swear i grined more in those 3 games than i have any other pokemon game.The anime toke a dive in quality around that time Dawn is probably my least favorite pokemon girl in the whole series.And even as a manga fan idont enjoy the DP arc(i will admit i like the platinum arc though).Sinnoh and gen 4 just killed my whole love for the series till around BW2
 

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Yeah, I'm not sure I feel as negatively about HGSS as you but I definitely agree in a lot of ways. There are some great features in those games (including the much-loved Pokemon following you thing that Game Freak for some reason decided to never give back to us), the PokeWalkers were a lot of fun back when the games were first big, and the setup with two regions and all is really cool. But HGSS was what made me realize that my nostalgia for Gen II had blinded me to a lot of issues.

And the grinding you have to do in Kanto is honestly just the worst. In every other game the Pokemon tend to get scaled up to where you should be at that point, but there is just God-awful availability of decently leveled wild Pokemon in HGSS (and GSC, obviously). The last time I played HG I literally just potion-stalled Red until his Lapras struggled itself to death because I didn't feel like doing the grinding necessary to stand a decent chance of facing him normally.

I love every single entry in the main Pokemon series tbh, including HGSS, but it's still one of my least favorites.
Pretty much my thoughts.

I do like HGSS overall and there are a ton of neat things it did.

I just found it lackluster. Maybe a future playthrough will change things but eh. For now, its just not a Pokemon game I'm dying to play again.
 

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I don't know, to me every gen has its ups and downs. Some are better in certain areas, and other areas tend to fall flat.
Though the only one I remember being underwhelmed with was X/Y. It just wasn't that interesting to me.
 
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Starlight_Lily

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If I were in charge I'd just make every Pokemon capable of using an overworld HM move capable of using the move from the second they're in your party, without it being a battle move. The game already requires you to have a specific badge, so it's not like a Pokemon would be able to cut or fly too early doing it this way. And really, I shouldn't need to teach my Lapras how to swim.
Yeah, you really shouldn't have to teach Water types how to swim :/
 

Z25

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I really hate sinnoh like everything from that region just ruined pokemon to me.The games got just got slow and unfun and yes while platinum fixes a few mistakes i personally just hate the gym design and i swear i grined more in those 3 games than i have any other pokemon game.The anime toke a dive in quality around that time Dawn is probably my least favorite pokemon girl in the whole series.And even as a manga fan idont enjoy the DP arc(i will admit i like the platinum arc though).Sinnoh and gen 4 just killed my whole love for the series till around BW2
I liked the challenge aspect to platinum. It was still the greatest moment ever when my level 11 togepii swept fantina's entire team with metronome.
 

Cutie Gwen

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I really hate sinnoh like everything from that region just ruined pokemon to me.The games got just got slow and unfun and yes while platinum fixes a few mistakes i personally just hate the gym design and i swear i grined more in those 3 games than i have any other pokemon game.The anime toke a dive in quality around that time Dawn is probably my least favorite pokemon girl in the whole series.And even as a manga fan idont enjoy the DP arc(i will admit i like the platinum arc though).Sinnoh and gen 4 just killed my whole love for the series till around BW2
So, the problems aren't involved with Platinum, but also the other media and spinoffs. Surprised you didn't mention Battle Revolution
 

Swamp Sensei

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On a completely different note...


Should I get DLC for Fire Emblem Awakening and/or Pikmin 3?
 

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Gen 4 wasn't awful wtf. It was like, the best thing ever... at least to me. Everything felt fresh. Lake song was love. Jubilife City is life. I didn't even care if it was slow. Competitively, most regard it as the most balanced metagame.

Battle Revolution was really meh. I think a lot thought it looked better when it was shown before it got released in 2005 or something.

What exactly does Pokémon need to feel "different", honestly---like what exactly needs to change. The turn-based aspect is never going to go away. It's possible for it to receive changes, but how can they be done is beyond me.
 

Champ Gold

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I've never liked HM's.

Doesn't help that only two of them are actually good moves.
Gen 4 made me realize how really awful HMs are.

Surf, Strength and Fly are great moves and can used in multiple ways, Rock Smash and Dive, ehh they're nice.

Defog and Rock Climb?
**** that noise especially Defog. The pace of DPP was already horrid but an HM like Defog where you have to waste a spot for it makes me visibly upset and one of the reasons it made me HATE Gen 4.

Outside of HGSS, that Gen was straight trash.

So, the problems aren't involved with Platinum, but also the other media and spinoffs. Surprised you didn't mention Battle Revolution
>loved Stadium 1&2 and Coliseum
>try Battle Revolution
>mfw
image.jpg
That game is a disgrace to the series as a whole. Especially how **** the music was
 
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IceBreakerXY

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So, the problems aren't involved with Platinum, but also the other media and spinoffs. Surprised you didn't mention Battle Revolution
i-i actually like battle revolution..And yes my main problem of gen 4 mainly comes from Pearl puttng me to alseep,not really likling the gyms,the gameplay feeling slugish and i just didn't get team galactic.
 

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I didn't think Battle Revolution was that bad. It did was it was trying to do: be a new Pokemon Stadium. And I think it worked well.
 

Omega Tyrant

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So, the problems aren't involved with Platinum, but also the other media and spinoffs. Surprised you didn't mention Battle Revolution
Oh Battle Revolution, I really want to know why they made it that you couldn't challenge earlier ranks once you beat them. Play the game enough, and you were forced into uber fights all the time unless you started a new file. Then there's removing all the misc. stuff from the Stadium games, and the AI never switching pokemon even though it could do it just fine in Stadium.

As a big Gen 4 fan, Battle Revolution was a disappointment.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Gen 4 made me realize how really awful HMs are.

Surf, Strength and Fly are great moves and can used in multiple ways, Rock Smash and Dive, ehh they're nice.

Defog and Rock Climb?
**** that noise especially Defog. The pace of DPP was already horrid but an HM like Defog where you have to waste a spot for it makes me visibly upset and one of the reasons it made me HATE Gen 4.

Outside of HGSS, that Gen was straight trash.


>loved Stadium 1&2 and Coliseum
>try Battle Revolution
>mfw
That game is a disgrace to the series as a whole. Especially how **** the music was
Ya'll are getting a bit too much into the Gen IV hate.
 
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I really hate sinnoh like everything from that region just ruined pokemon to me.The games got just got slow and unfun and yes while platinum fixes a few mistakes i personally just hate the gym design and i swear i grined more in those 3 games than i have any other pokemon game.The anime toke a dive in quality around that time Dawn is probably my least favorite pokemon girl in the whole series.And even as a manga fan idont enjoy the DP arc(i will admit i like the platinum arc though).Sinnoh and gen 4 just killed my whole love for the series till around BW2
We can be together in hatred of Sinnoh. Hell I didn't even like the pokemon that came out of it either. Pretty much just Luxray and Lucario. . . At east the game after (Black) was my favorite in the series :)

**** that geography
 
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AreJay25

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Gen 4 made me realize how really awful HMs are.

Surf, Strength and Fly are great moves and can used in multiple ways, Rock Smash and Dive, ehh they're nice.

Defog and Rock Climb?
**** that noise especially Defog. The pace of DPP was already horrid but an HM like Defog where you have to waste a spot for it makes me visibly upset and one of the reasons it made me HATE Gen 4.

Outside of HGSS, that Gen was straight trash.
HM's were definitely at their worst, but I still managed to enjoy Gen 4.

Despite how ridiculously slow battles were in Diamond and Pearl. Seriously, what the **** was that.
 

Firus

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Gen 4 wasn't awful wtf. It was like, the best thing ever... at least to me. Everything felt fresh. Lake song was love. Jubilife City is life. I didn't even care if it was slow. Competitively, most regard it as the most balanced metagame.

Battle Revolution was really meh. I think a lot thought it looked better when it was shown before it got released in 2005 or something.
These are pretty much my feelings. I sort of hated Gen IV when it first came out (rather, I was obsessed with it until I beat the Elite 4 and then became bitter about it afterward), but replaying it recently made me realize that I actually love it entirely, and though I am pretty much incapable of ranking the Pokemon games, I'd say Gen IV is one of my favorites.

Battle Revolution is a different story. Not that it's not fun for the most part, just that there isn't anywhere near the level of content I would expect compared to previous console Pokemon games. Also, Neon Colosseum can go die. The worst part is I bought it new while I was visiting relatives in Illinois (which has 10% sales tax) so I spent just about the most money I could've spent on a game that's lacking in much content.
 

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Could it be that they're slow because of what they did in Gen 5? Because I remember Gen I-IV had the damage animation happen and then lowered the HP.
 

Champ Gold

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We can be together in hatred of Sinnoh. Hell I didn't even like the pokemon that came out of it either. Pretty much just Luxray and Lucario. . . At east the game after (Black) was my favorite in the series :)

**** that geography
I really hate sinnoh like everything from that region just ruined pokemon to me.The games got just got slow and unfun and yes while platinum fixes a few mistakes i personally just hate the gym design and i swear i grined more in those 3 games than i have any other pokemon game.The anime toke a dive in quality around that time Dawn is probably my least favorite pokemon girl in the whole series.And even as a manga fan idont enjoy the DP arc(i will admit i like the platinum arc though).Sinnoh and gen 4 just killed my whole love for the series till around BW2
Join me in. He speed, the Pokemon selection(that fire type selection is absurd. Only fire type in Sinnoh is Rapidash. **** that), how dull the region is and how the character designs for the protagonist is really bad (Lucas and Dawn got better in Platinum with designs).

It really was the one gen that turned me off from the series PERIOD.
 

vaanrose

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Now see I like Diamond and Platinum (platinum especially) much more than HGSS.

Just goes to show that quality is a relative thing.



A lot of you forget that.
We're gonna get into a philosophical debate now.

Quality is objective. Compare Big Rigs Over the Road Racing to Need for Speed Underground, released the same year, and it's black and white which is the better game. Big Rigs is inherently inferior to Need for Speed, personal opinion removed.

And if two such diametrically opposed titles can be objectively different in quality, then it stands to reason two titles of similar quality can still be objectively rated against each other.

Personal enjoyment of a title is subjective, true, but the best game and movie reviews attempt to remove as much personal bias from the equation as possible. It's why Roger Ebert was so highly regarded. On many different occasions he'd rave about movies he'd give low ratings, and confess boredom at ones he'd give high ones. Because he'd rate a title objectively, and then give his subjective opinion of the film.

In fact, I think it shows a high level of arrogance for someone to play a game, hate it, and then declare it bad. It's very easy to enjoy a bug ridden mess and not enjoy a masterpiece. First person shooters do nothing for me; I've never played one I particularly enjoyed. I'd play a crappy NES platformer over the next big FPS game any day of the week. But it's still easy to look at what I'm playing, and look at what they're playing, and say, yeah, you know what, I'm the one playing the terrible game.
 

IceBreakerXY

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if there if is one thing i can say i like about gen 4 is Barry.Everytime i saw him i smiled and it helps that he feels like a real rival something the series has kinda forgotten nowadays
 

Fenriraga

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On a completely different note...


Should I get DLC for Fire Emblem Awakening and/or Pikmin 3?
Awakening is an absolute yes.
Pikmin 3... eeeehhhhh. Its DLC doesnt have much to offer in terms of "New" content. There's like, a single challange level where you get to play as Olimar, but it isn't even that long.
 

Cutie Gwen

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if there if is one thing i can say i like about gen 4 is Barry.Everytime i saw him i smiled and it helps that he feels like a real rival something the series has kinda forgotten nowadays
I remember hearing that Barry was disliked. Though I believe the rivals onwards are better not to mention Brandon/May were good imo, Barry wasn't as bad as Blue and Silver. I want Gen IV remakes asap for Cynthia's theme in full glory along with Giratina's theme, but I loved Sinnoh. ORAS may be a remake of my childhood, but I loved Platinum, especially the Distortion World
 

Swamp Sensei

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We're gonna get into a philosophical debate now.

Quality is objective. Compare Big Rigs Over the Road Racing to Need for Speed Underground, released the same year, and it's black and white which is the better game. Big Rigs is inherently inferior to Need for Speed, personal opinion removed.

And if two such diametrically opposed titles can be objectively different in quality, then it stands to reason two titles of similar quality can still be objectively rated against each other.

Personal enjoyment of a title is subjective, true, but the best game and movie reviews attempt to remove as much personal bias from the equation as possible. It's why Roger Ebert was so highly regarded. On many different occasions he'd rave about movies he'd give low ratings, and confess boredom at ones he'd give high ones. Because he'd rate a title objectively, and then give his subjective opinion of the film.

In fact, I think it shows a high level of arrogance for someone to play a game, hate it, and then declare it bad. It's very easy to enjoy a bug ridden mess and not enjoy a masterpiece. First person shooters do nothing for me; I've never played one I particularly enjoyed. I'd play a crappy NES platformer over the next big FPS game any day of the week. But it's still easy to look at what I'm playing, and look at what they're playing, and say, yeah, you know what, I'm the one playing the terrible game.
Yeah.

But aside from the first statement which I quickly recanted due to me thinking I was wrong I said it was a good game. Just one I had problems with and didn't personally enjoy as much as the others.
 

Arcanir

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Gen 4 made me realize how really awful HMs are.

Surf, Strength and Fly are great moves and can used in multiple ways, Rock Smash and Dive, ehh they're nice.

Defog and Rock Climb?
**** that noise especially Defog. The pace of DPP was already horrid but an HM like Defog where you have to waste a spot for it makes me visibly upset and one of the reasons it made me HATE Gen 4.

Outside of HGSS, that Gen was straight trash.
Yeah, the way the HMs were used in DPPt was pretty bad and one of the major flaws I had with those games. Defog in particular also has the dishonor of being the one of two HMs I refused to use and just went into the area blind without it (shame I couldn't do the same with Rock Climb).

Could it be that they're slow because of what they did in Gen 5? Because I remember Gen I-IV had the damage animation happen and then lowered the HP.
While Gen 5 did streamline the battle mechanics, DP was actually very slow, even in comparison to older games. For instance, I remember some time ago someone made a video comparing the start up animations for battles between all of the games to see how XY was shaping up in that regard, DP was one of, if not the slowest in that regard.

Edit: Found it, DP was the slowest, though by a small margin between it and GSC.
 
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Solfiner

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I think BW2 are my favorite Pokémon games actually. While the story is watered down compared to BW, the pacing just felt really good to me and there were a lot of things to do.
 
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I honestly didn't like Gen 4 outside of HGSS, but then I decided to Nuzlocke Platinum and I had a lot of fun with it
Now, I still have my problems with it and they are the region design and characters
WHYVDOES MT. CORONET COUNT AS A ROUTE? THAT IS SO CONFUSING
Routes are way too long and most of the time you're going in circles or dead ends just to fight a gym leader
The characters
All gym leaders and E4 are bland and uninspired, along with having the worst teams possible in DP due to its limited pokedex
**** Roark
Gardenia is a *****
Fantina at least gave me a good battle
Crasher Wake has no right to exist
That fighting gym leader is just a random Battle Girl that they decided to make the gym leader
I don't know what to say about Byron because there's nothing to him
Candice... ugh
Minato left Naruto to become a depressed teenager
Aaron id just a kid wtf is he doing in the E4?
Flint is the worst example of literally everything, bland, terrible team and HE LOOKS LIKE RONALD MCDONALD
Bertha was obligatory old lady
And that psychic guy was just an expy of the much better Will
 

AreJay25

May or May Not Be Pac-Man
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I think BW2 are my favorite Pokémon games actually. While the story is watered down compared to BW, the pacing just felt really good to me and there were a lot of things to do.
BW2's postgame was amazing. Definitely one of my favorite aspects of it.
 

Champ Gold

Smash Scrublord
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if there if is one thing i can say i like about gen 4 is Barry.Everytime i saw him i smiled and it helps that he feels like a real rival something the series has kinda forgotten nowadays
Barry was pretty fun and I do love he actively gets better as a trainer throughout the game.

I remember hearing that Barry was disliked. Though I believe the rivals onwards are better not to mention Brandon/May were good imo, Barry wasn't as bad as Blue and Silver. I want Gen IV remakes asap for Cynthia's theme in full glory along with Giratina's theme, but I loved Sinnoh. ORAS may be a remake of my childhood, but I loved Platinum, especially the Distortion World
Barry was only hated due to how Rivals were becoming in the series and he was too hyper for older fans and acted like Blue and Dilver were good rivals when Bulr and Barry were actual rivals

May/Brendan weren't even rivals and were friends with you and almost borderline love interest in the remakes considering May is embarrassed when she around you and Brendan was tsundere. They tried to make Wally a rival but but he was never close to ever being one

Cheren was a rival since he fought you the most but was never interesting and Bianca was more of a friend situation.

Hugh was boring and was trying to hard to be like Blue.

And the XY rivals? HA. Serena's confidence is pretty sad to see. Considering you just destroy her every single way.

Silver is a irredeemable piece of crap. He wasn't even a rival since actively tried to screw you over and was an asshole to EVERYONE.

Red and Blue has rivalry friendship since they were kids, Gold and Silver; it just an asshole that was in your way and just was a nuisance. (See the Old Tower situation and Rocket hideout event.)
 

Solfiner

*Those Who Stand Against Our Path*
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BW2's postgame was amazing. Definitely one of my favorite aspects of it.
Oh yeah, all my Pokémon ended in their early nineties at the end of it because it was so long.
 
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