Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[Mamboo07]

grumpy curmudgeon

...Wasn't expecting to see a word like that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

What you think on my dlc prediction?

Sokka will totally be my punching bag if its true! :D

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

It's so funny how there's outcry against the idea of EIH just for reasoning of "Smash is stinky" and "too many matchups!!!!!". It's really not hard to make it happen and the reception to the cuts means they should absolutely try to prioritize bringing everyone back next time or whatever. If people are mad and calling the roster ass because of such cuts, maybe just maybe that should be corrected than ignored.

 

[RileyXY1]

It's so funny how there's outcry against the idea of EIH just for reasoning of "Smash is stinky" and "too many matchups!!!!!". It's really not hard to make it happen and the reception to the cuts means they should absolutely try to prioritize bringing everyone back next time or whatever. If people are mad and calling the roster ass because of such cuts, maybe just maybe that should be corrected than ignored.

I'm against it because it would lead to an incredibly lacking roster of newcomers that would mostly consist of clones.

 

[Fields - Ultimate's Great]

I'm against it because it would lead to an incredibly lacking roster of newcomers that would mostly consist of clones.

How? They managed with NASB 2, everything in it was a huge undertaking compared to NASB 1. They handled what's essentially 25 unique newcomers, crossplay, single player, etc. They have a proper workable framework this time. It'd be very easy to manage it.

 

[RileyXY1]

How? They managed with NASB 2, everything in it was a huge undertaking compared to NASB 1. They handled what's essentially 25 unique newcomers, crossplay, single player, etc. They have a proper workable framework this time.

All of the returning vets would essentially have the development time of a newcomer due to changes in mechanics between NASB1 and NASB2. So all the dev time would go there while the newcomers would end up lacking and being mostly clones. Smash Ultimate itself had this issue as well. I'm also not expecting this either because it would require them to stick with the Unity engine, and Unity itself is now incredibly unpopular with developers.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Reminder that in addition to the 25 equivalent newcomers, they also created new stages, revamped every old stage with better graphics and gave multiple old stages alternate layouts, redid the entire system to introduce new mechanics and added a roguelike Adventure Mode. They did all that in two years

Presumably speaking, most of those things wouldn't need to be done AGAIN in a third game. They'd spend most of that time creating fighters. 15 to 18 characters in the next installment while recycling this games roster and engine wouldn't be any more work than they've already proven they could do, but even then? I'd take the missing vets plus just 4 newcomers in base because the roster otherwise would be about as close to perfect as you could get for me.

And no, they wouldn't be clones, it's clear these devs want everyone to be unique. They haven't done any clones yet, and until that changes we shouldn't even give clones the time of day to think about.

 

[ivanlerma]

It's possible that due to the whole Unity situation they would start all over again with NASB3.

They apologized for it

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Personally I don't think NASB is going to get an "Everyone is here" moment, but like I said on a previous post I do think that some veterans will be very high priority to bring back in the next game (those being Sandy, Hugh Neutron, Leo, Mikey and CatDog). After that, I think Oblina, Shredder, Toph and Lincoln will be 50/50 chances to come back. And the only one that I could genuinely see not coming back is PTM or at least he would be low priority.

Either way, we're getting 4 dlc newcomers, so after that honestly there won't be that many big names from Nickelodeon to add in a third game, so focus could be on the veterans and we could have maybe 5 or so newcomers, maybe even less than that and the roster would be pretty good.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'd take the missing vets plus just 4 newcomers in base because the roster otherwise would be about as close to perfect as you could get for me.

I pretty much thought NASB1's final roster+Jimmy, Timmy, and the remaining two Turtles and maybe Zuko would be enough to satisfy the majority.

And...uh...if they focused on bringing back as many vets as possible, we could potentially get that and then some. Just without Timmy apparently.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

So, if we get one today it'll either be Azula, Reptar, Jenny - and of the remaining 3 characters Zim will be first. Not sure if Zim is coming after the first 3 I named or not though, but they've probably all started scripts at this point. Lotta ways to interpret this, but the simple fact is "Zim comes before Korra and Rocko".

 

[Gorgonzales]

They apologized for it

Unity apologized for it, yeah, but that trust is already broken. As someone learning gamedev myself, there's no way I'm going to learn an engine belonging to a company that openly proved they were willing to, without warning, pull out the rug from under devs' feet, and I've seen a similar sentiment from lots of other devs.

 

[LimeTH]

I'm against it because it would lead to an incredibly lacking roster of newcomers that would mostly consist of clones.

Oh you gotta be kidding me. You’ve been complaining about the cuts more than anyone, dooming about how they’ll never be back, how they should have gone for the missing 11 instead of Gertie, and Lincoln this and Lincoln that. Now all of the sudden you don’t want them to come back because it’d make for a bad roster?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Oh you gotta be kidding me. You’ve been complaining about the cuts more than anyone, dooming about how they’ll never be back, how they should have gone for the missing 11 instead of Gertie, and Lincoln this and Lincoln that. Now all of the sudden you don’t want them to come back because it’d make for a bad roster?

What did you expect from the same guy who kept going on and on about how they should cut Lincoln for the haters, and then once it finally happens it's the worst thing ever?

 

[LimeTH]

What did you expect from the same guy who kept going on and on about how they should cut Lincoln for the haters, and then once it finally happens it's the worst thing ever?

I’m pretty sure the sudden “keep the 11 out” is because of Lincoln and he’s dragging 10 other characters down with him.

And...uh...if they focused on bringing back as many vets as possible, we could potentially get that and then some. Just without Timmy apparently.

I think at this point we should just start asking for Cosmo and Wanda or the Crimson Chin to make it easier on them.

 

[FazDude]

I think at this point we should just start asking for Cosmo and Wanda or the Crimson Chin to make it easier on them.

My pick's Jorgen - Crimson Chin would be fun, though.

 

[Opossum]

I agree that Jorgen would be my personal favorite choice for a non-Timmy FOP character. He would also give us another large heavyweight, so that's a nice bonus.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Uh oh.

 

[fogbadge]

Uh oh.
View attachment 379318

oh come on!

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'd really only want to see the Chin if we got PTM back so we could have them fight.

I'd be fine with Cosmo and Wanda if that's what it takes to get the franchise in, though I think it's odd that Timmy specifically has the problem as opposed to the entire franchise. I wonder what's up with that?

 

[Ze Diglett]

You have no idea about that, you're talking out of your butt.

They have a solid framework to work with here. Given the fact they could easily recycle assets, it is 100% in the realm of possibility for them to pick a smaller handful of newcomers and focus on filling out a roster with revamped veterans.

Just because youre a grumpy curmudgeon who hates Smash doesn't mean that it's impossible for other games to follow it's model nor does it mean them following that model is a bad thing.

Plenty of other games have done exactly the same thing of copy/pasting a previous game's assets and building on top of it.

Not every sequel has to be a complete rehauling of everything in the original.

My view is less that an EIH is literally impossible and more that it doesn't align with what the devs are going for. They're clearly prioritizing cool newcomers over bringing back old faces, otherwise they would've dropped one of the new guys when push came to shove instead of 11 veterans. (Granted, they might've with Vlad from the sound of it, but it was still their decision to add as many newcomers as cut veterans.) I imagine the likes of Hugh and CatDog will probably return at some point, but I dunno if we're ever seeing Lincoln or PTM again, to be honest. This game's not trying to be Smash, and that's anything but a bad thing. People just need to accept it instead of forcing one series' standard onto another.
But here y'all are reducing one man's argument to "Smash cringe, NASB based."

"Too many moves to balance"

Have you seen Tekken 7's roster? Or UMvC3? They're both huge and much more complex, and they pull it off just fine. Some characters will be lower tier than others, it's not possible for any game to have perfect balance. Learn it.

Okay? Since when is that an excuse not to try?
Also, isn't UMvC3 kinda infamous for having broken top tiers?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

My view is less that an EIH is literally impossible and more that it doesn't align with what the devs are going for. They're clearly prioritizing cool newcomers over bringing back old faces, otherwise they would've dropped one of the new guys when push came to shove instead of 11 veterans. (Granted, they might've with Vlad from the sound of it, but it was still their decision to add as many newcomers as cut veterans.) This game's not trying to be Smash, and that's anything but a bad thing. People just need to accept it instead of forcing one series' standard onto another.
But here y'all are reducing one man's argument to "Smash cringe, NASB based."

Okay? Since when is that an excuse not to try?
Also, isn't UMvC3 kinda infamous for having broken top tiers?

Your argument falls apart when it starts to literally take more from Smash, which is exactly what it's doing in this game. Side specials, full set of aerials, final Smashes, etc.

It doesn't have to be exactly like Smash - no one is saying it does - but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting them to bring back characters so they can keep those dream matchups going, and they 100% saw the vitriolic reaction to cuts.

If you want your game to do well, you take feedback into account.

And no, that's not at all the way that dude thinks. He's been notably vitriolic about the way Smash has done things for a long time. You're free to have that opinion, but to get all pissy whenever someone brings up that they'd like to see everyone return, like he clearly did, is where I have a problem.

And I didn't say you shouldn't try, obviously you should, but to sit here and pretend that it's so hard to balance a roster of that size is disrespectful to the balance team. These people are professionals, show a little faith. All it is is an excuse to try and support his flimsy argument

 

[LimeTH]

What’s with the lack of faith in PTM? He has right facing story mode renders just like Hugh does.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

If you want your game to do well, you take feedback into account.

But isn't taking feedback into account what got Lincoln cut and Hugh added before Jimmy?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

But isn't taking feedback into account what got Lincoln cut and Hugh added before Jimmy?

You know damn well that Hugh's support was a meme, and one that got quite the controversial reaction when it was prioritized, hence why Jimmy was one of the first reveals and why he took priority.

As for Lincoln I genuinely do not give a damn about him and he is a much less controversial cut despite what a certain someone here would say.

The point is, they took feedback and, in my opinion, created a better roster even if I don't personally like some of the cuts. But so many cuts is equally controversial, so, the obvious solution from their standpoint to please both sides is to bring as many characters as they can back, an idea you refuse to even consider because you hate Ultimate so much.

It's 11 characters to bring back. If they recycle assets and don't make massive changes ro the game engine or create another elaborate single player mode. They made equivacally 25 newcomers in that time. Expecting a roster of 45 next time around isn't remotely unreasonable, and it's less than half of the size of Ultimate and still smaller than MvC2 and Tekken 7.

 

[RileyXY1]

Your argument falls apart when it starts to literally take more from Smash, which is exactly what it's doing in this game. Side specials, full set of aerials, final Smashes, etc.

It doesn't have to be exactly like Smash - no one is saying it does - but there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting them to bring back characters so they can keep those dream matchups going, and they 100% saw the vitriolic reaction to cuts.

If you want your game to do well, you take feedback into account.

And no, that's not at all the way that dude thinks. He's been notably vitriolic about the way Smash has done things for a long time. You're free to have that opinion, but to get all pissy whenever someone brings up that they'd like to see everyone return, like he clearly did, is where I have a problem.

And I didn't say you shouldn't try, obviously you should, but to sit here and pretend that it's so hard to balance a roster of that size is disrespectful to the balance team. These people are professionals, show a little faith. All it is is an excuse to try and support his flimsy argument

It kinda is harder to balance a roster of that size. All of the last three Smash games have massively overpowered characters that completely broke the meta (Meta Knight for Brawl, Bayonetta for Smash 4, and Steve for Ultimate).

 

[Guynamednelson]

It kinda is harder to balance a roster of that size. All of the last three Smash games have massively overpowered characters that completely broke the meta (Meta Knight for Brawl, Bayonetta for Smash 4, and Steve for Ultimate).

As if Melee's 26 character roster was balanced. Where do you think the "NO ITEMS FOX ONLY" meme came from?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

It kinda is harder to balance a roster of that size. All of the last three Smash games have massively overpowered characters that completely broke the meta (Meta Knight for Brawl, Bayonetta for Smash 4, and Steve for Ultimate).

And Smash 64 had Pikachu, and Melee had Fox. Literally only 8 characters see real use in Melee. That's a bs excuse.

 

[RileyXY1]

And Smash 64 had Pikachu, and Melee had Fox. Literally only 8 characters see real use in Melee. That's a bs excuse.

They were nowhere near as bad as Brawl Meta Knight, Smash 4 Bayonetta, and Ultimate Steve. Meta Knight singlehandedly killed Brawl's competitive scene, Bayonetta was so broken that they released a patch that included only nerfs for her, and Steve is ruining people's enjoyment for Ultimate as well. T

 

[ZephyrZ]

Consider Smash was never really meant to be played exclusively 1v1 like so many competitive players do - it's balanced for a casual market first. They didn't even bother trying to balance for the competitive scene until Smash 4 and even then it was just an afterthought.

On the flip side Nick All Star Brawl seems to be way more concerned with Competitive 1v1s first with free-for-all balance being the afterthought. If you want to talk about competitive balance Smash isn't really the best comparison - although even then Smash 4 was in a fairly healthy state post hoo-ha and pre-Cloud/Bayo and Ultimate has had a fairly healthy metagame for a lot of its life too.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Consider Smash was never really meant to be played exclusively 1v1 like so many competitive players do - it's balanced for a casual market first. They didn't even bother trying to balance for the competitive scene until Smash 4 and even then it was just an afterthought.

Fun Fact: According to one of his Melee trophies, Fox is meant to be designed for 1v1 fights in mind-hence his top tier status in a meta focused around that.

 

[Opossum]

Uh oh.
View attachment 379318

God that sucks. I hate how nobody can properly compress their games anymore.

 

[Guynamednelson]

God that sucks. I hate how nobody can properly compress their games anymore.

Admittedly NASB1 already had this problem. It was 15GB on release.

 

[Opossum]

Admittedly NASB1 already had this problem. It was 15GB on release.

That was also bad, yes, but at least that fit on a cartridge lol.

 

[dlewis53]

Yeah, I'm gonna check with my local GameStop tomorrow, but if that's what's going on with the Switch version, then I might as well try to get a refund on the pre-order and see about doing the Ultimate Edition.

 

[Nintykid]

God that sucks. I hate how nobody can properly compress their games anymore.

Unless your Nintendo with games like Mario Wonder, or the Zelda games

 

[ZephyrZ]

...I'll be honest, after NASB1 turned out to be a let down for me, I was planning on renting this game first, then buying it if I liked it.

This might be a deal breaker for me.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yeah, I’m probably just gonna get the Steam version. No game card is a no go.

 

[AreJay25]

Well, it's a good thing the game has crossplay.

I'd appreciate it if these companies stopped shipping empty plastic boxes to retailers but I suppose I'm asking for too much in this day and age.

 

[ivanlerma]

i had planned on buying the game on steam so i think i'll leave the switch version down for this until a physical version is produced.