Nickelodeon All-Stars Brawl General Thread - All Star Brawl 2 Available Today!

[dlewis53]

Yeah, I'm gonna give the devs the benefit of the doubt on Squidina and the Kamp Koral versions of SpongeBob and Patrick; those really feel like ad-picks put in by some Nick executive.

The alternate Raph, on the other hand, while a cool reference, feels weird as a completely separate driver, and Purple Reptar genuinely feels inexcusable and bizarre.

And I STILL question why they brought Jojo back.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Don't believe everything that comes from corporate PR. Companies love to lie.

Soooo... your logic is...
Random tweet: corporate PR
Promotional interview with a major website: Completely true and from the heart

???

we still have it on record, via interview, that Stephen didn't want spinoffs in the first place. It's highly likely that Nickelodeon just twisted his arm with Kamp Koral.

https://tbivision.com/2009/10/27/spongebob-squarepants-creator-steve-hillenburg/

"Patrick himself would be a little too much" and yet they did exactly that.

Wording matters. He said he didn't think it could work, not that he was opposed to it.

In the same interview he says this

So, again, if they wanted to make a cartoon against Stephen's wishes, they would have no need to wait - unless the Nick execs just want to be schadenfruedian cartoon villains.

Also I really don't like the idea that Kamp Koral and Patrick Show characters must've been added as corporate "shill picks" - maybe they were for all I know, but there's literally no evidence or prescedent to say that they were as opposed to someone on the dev team just liking the spin-offs or wanting to include a character who appeals to the main Nickelodeon audience. Same for Jojo in NKR2.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I 100% do have problems with those, especially the Velma series (speaking as a lifelong Scooby fan). And whether he signed off or not is 100% relevant when we still have it on record, via interview, that Stephen didn't want spinoffs in the first place. It's highly likely that Nickelodeon just twisted his arm with Kamp Koral.

https://tbivision.com/2009/10/27/spongebob-squarepants-creator-steve-hillenburg/

"Patrick himself would be a little too much" and yet they did exactly that.

Don't believe everything that comes from corporate PR. Companies love to lie.

you can't be citing "I don't see any spin-offs" as proof he didn't want spin-offs when in the very next question he says he doesn't see any more movies either (he worked on the second one and signed off on Kamp Koral)

I'm sure Nick convinced him to sign off on said spin-off, but as soon as he approves one I don't see how any more would be an issue. His death was unfortunately timed, not the shows

Nickelodeon has done much worse that deserves a focus over this overblown narrative

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Also I really don't like the idea that Kamp Koral and Patrick Show characters must've been added as corporate "shill picks" - maybe they were for all I know, but there's literally no evidence or prescedent to say that they were as opposed to someone on the dev team just liking the spin-offs or wanting to include a character who appeals to the main Nickelodeon audience. Same for Jojo in NKR2.

I know you like to be a contrarian with literally everything I say, but there is absolutely no world that the three SpongeBob spinoffs aren't corporate shill picks when both shows only started airing in the last year AND are some of the only shows still running on the network. And, having seen both shows, I sincerely doubt the dev team gives two ****s about them, considering they are ****ing terrible. GameMill is not the team that got daring with their picks. That was Ludosity.

 

[ivanlerma]

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[Quick Gaming (QG)]

I know you like to be a contrarian with literally everything I say, but there is absolutely no world that the three SpongeBob spinoffs aren't corporate shill picks when both shows only started airing in the last year AND are some of the only shows still running on the network. And, having seen both shows, I sincerely doubt the dev team gives two ****s about them, considering they are ****ing terrible. GameMill is not the team that got daring with their picks. That was Ludosity.

Did those both really come out last year where has time gone

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

both shows only started airing in the last year

Well, in that case...

Shill pick!

And, having seen both shows, I sincerely doubt the dev team gives two ****s about them, considering they are ****ing terrible. GameMill is not the team that got daring with their picks. That was Ludosity.

Somebody liking a TV show is not an unrealistic scenario, and GameMill didn't develop this game either.

 

[fogbadge]

I know you like to be a contrarian with literally everything I say, but there is absolutely no world that the three SpongeBob spinoffs aren't corporate shill picks when both shows only started airing in the last year AND are some of the only shows still running on the network. And, having seen both shows, I sincerely doubt the dev team gives two ****s about them, considering they are ****ing terrible. GameMill is not the team that got daring with their picks. That was Ludosity.

you have got to accept that people can like things you don't. just judge them for it internally

 

[Guynamednelson]

I know you like to be a contrarian with literally everything I say

Dude, he wants to be contrarian with everyone, including himself. He's even complained about shill picks in Smash, but I guess Kamp Koral Spongebob is okay since he doesn't wield a sword or whatever.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Dude, he wants to be contrarian with everyone, including himself. He's even complained about shill picks in Smash, but I guess Kamp Koral Spongebob is okay since he doesn't wield a sword or whatever.

My problem with Smash shill picks relates to how Smash promotes itself and its characters - each unique newcomer gets a full CGI trailer, is added to a giant watercolour painted banner, and gets a special number - not to mention the C-O-G-H issue - Smash wants to build itself up as the "ultimate honour". I'm fine with it in the Nick games because characters aren't treated as a big deal whatsoever, it's just "hey, here's Jimmy! hey, here's Odie!".

 

[Geoffrey Druyts]

Speaking of, KK Sandy is cute and should have probably been in over Squidina.

Nah, I don't like the Patrick Star Show personally (too random for my taste), but I would absolutely take a new character over a baby version of a character that's already in the roster.

 

[Guynamednelson]

not to mention the C-O-G-H issue - Smash wants to build itself up as the "ultimate honour"

And this is an example of how you contradict yourself-this is a bad thing, but it's also bad they picked Banjo before Chief even though he would make that ten times worse.

 

[Baysha]

And this is an example of how you contradict yourself-this is a bad thing, but it's also bad they picked Banjo before Chief even though he would make that ten times worse.

I'm not really getting this. Master Chief inflates how important getting in Smash is... how exactly? Wawawa's point is how Nintendo treats the marketing of Smash as the "ultimate honor."

I know you like to be a contrarian with literally everything I say

The world does not revolve around you. People will disagree and some people will diasgree with a lot of your opinions.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Master Chief inflates how important getting in Smash is... how exactly?

Basically everything WaWaWa dislikes about hype culture and Smash fans only caring about it being a sort-of-celebration-of-gaming would be far, far worse if they chose Master Chief over Banjo.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm not really getting this. Master Chief inflates how important getting in Smash is... how exactly? Wawawa's point is how Nintendo treats the marketing of Smash as the "ultimate honor."


The world does not revolve around you. People will disagree and some people will diasgree with a lot of your opinions.

It has nothing to do with me thinking that. W3 has never once agreed with my opinion, and the way he types comes off as incredibly self-important and honestly kind of rude.

Basically everything WaWaWa dislikes about hype culture and Smash fans only caring about it being a sort-of-celebration-of-gaming would be far, far worse if they chose Master Chief over Banjo.

I'm pretty sure he only does this because he WANTS to be an opposing opinion to what's popular, because it's "different." Even though there's nothing wrong with liking popular things.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I'm pretty sure he only does this because he WANTS to be an opposing opinion to what's popular, because it's "different."

Maybe. A lot of his opinions make me think he'd complain even more if, well, MC was chosen over Banjo.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

And this is an example of how you contradict yourself-this is a bad thing, but it's also bad they picked Banjo before Chief even though he would make that ten times worse.

Basically everything WaWaWa dislikes about hype culture and Smash fans only caring about it being a sort-of-celebration-of-gaming would be far, far worse if they chose Master Chief over Banjo.

The reason I have a problem with Smash as a "celebration of gaming" is not because of the concept itself, in fact I love that concept, but rather because it doesn't live up to it. For example: Banjo.

You can have a major crossover without marketing each individual new character as the second coming of Christ. Shadowdrops, more and bigger batch reveals, only giving full trailers to super major third party picks, shortening the Sakurai Presents videos to a less comprehensive format, entire DLC passes revealed before release, so on - those would all be really good ways to de-emphasise the importance of characters and therefore allow more wild or shill-y picks to fly by without it coming off like they're trying to troll or are trying to make new characters seem important before they can earn a following, especially for first parties should they continue the route of "half-Nintendo, half-everyone else".

 

[fogbadge]

The reason I have a problem with Smash as a "celebration of gaming" is not because of the concept itself, in fact I love that concept, but rather because it doesn't live up to it. For example: Banjo.

You can have a major crossover without marketing each individual new character as the second coming of Christ. Shadowdrops, more and bigger batch reveals, only giving full trailers to super major third party picks, shortening the Sakurai Presents videos to a less comprehensive format, entire DLC passes revealed before release, so on - those would all be really good ways to de-emphasise the importance of characters and therefore allow more wild or shill-y picks to fly by without it coming off like they're trying to troll or are trying to make new characters seem important before they can earn a following, especially for first parties should they continue the route of "half-Nintendo, half-everyone else".

you greatly overestimate the smash fandom. They think that no matter when or how they revealed. As shown by the fact that there are those who says that about characters from before smash 4

 

[LimeTH]

Sakurai himself said Banjo was the second most requested character after Sora. He was going to get in regardless.

 

[Guynamednelson]

rather because it doesn't live up to it.

In that case, it would be bad to have wild/shilly picks regardless of whether or not they "market each individual new character as the second coming of Christ", because they, well, also don't live up to it being a "celebration of gaming".

This is kind of what I've been trying to tell you, you want obscure picks but also want it to be harder for obscure picks to get in.

Sakurai himself said Banjo was the second most requested character after Sora. He was going to get in regardless.

Also you should keep in mind that Microsoft themselves approved of Banjo votes on the ballot, so they themselves don't care about being represented "correctly". Hell, they probably think Banjo is correct representation of the company when it's a Nintendo-published game on a Nintendo system.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

This is kind of what I've been trying to tell you, you want obscure picks but also want it to be harder for obscure picks to get in.

I don't want obscure picks any more, at least not the Muddy Mole/Jill Dozer variety. The "obscure picks" I want now are moreso overlooked but extremely important games (microcomputer games, pre-gaming crash titles, so on)

 

[Guynamednelson]

I don't want obscure picks any more, at least not the Muddy Mole/Jill Dozer variety. The "obscure picks" I want now are moreso overlooked but extremely important games (microcomputer games, pre-gaming crash titles, so on)

Well there won't be either if Smash fully commits to being a celebration of gaming. Just a constant stream of I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT! I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!

 

[LimeTH]

Also you should keep in mind that Microsoft themselves approved of Banjo votes on the ballot, so they themselves don't care about being represented "correctly". Hell, they probably think Banjo is correct representation of the company when it's a Nintendo-published game on a Nintendo system.

I don't think Banjo was even intended to be "Microsoft representation" in the first place. The highly requested character who is most known for his popular games on Nintendo systems and for years being considered a Nintendo character just happens to be owned by a different studio now, and said studio was willing to let Nintendo use him in their crossover. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with Banjo himself and his historical significance to Nintendo.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't want obscure picks any more, at least not the Muddy Mole/Jill Dozer variety. The "obscure picks" I want now are moreso overlooked but extremely important games (microcomputer games, pre-gaming crash titles, so on)

you know I think you may illustrating your own point. you’re annoyed with fans who get upset when they include a character that doesn’t meet what they think smash is while likewise getting upset with characters who don’t match what you think smash is

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

I don't think Banjo was even intended to be "Microsoft representation" in the first place. The highly requested character who is most known for his popular games on Nintendo systems and for years being considered a Nintendo character just happens to be owned by a different studio now, and said studio was willing to play ball. It has nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with Banjo himself.

And that's why I take issue with Banjo in Smash

Well there won't be either if Smash fully commits to being a celebration of gaming. Just a constant stream of I CLAPPED! I CLAPPED WHEN I SAW IT! I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!

I'm talking "should", not "would." Should've been clear I'm not talking realism from the second I suggested scrapping trailers and livestreams.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

And that's why I take issue with Banjo in Smash

I'm talking "should", not "would." Should've been clear I'm not talking realism from the second I suggested scrapping trailers and livestreams.

So you take issue with a character who might as well be an honorary Nintendo character, and even USED to be a Nintendo character, being in the Nintendo-produced, primarily Nintendo fighting game


I'm done with you dude

 

[Guynamednelson]

So you take issue with a character who might as well be an honorary Nintendo character, and even USED to be a Nintendo character, being in the Nintendo-produced, primarily Nintendo fighting game


I'm done with you dude

I hope Wariox3 never finds out if Nelvana owns a more iconic character than Timmy Turner.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

This feels like a perfect opportunity to plug this video I watched last night about the future of Smash and it's current dilemma

SMASH: The Post-Ultimate Problem

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[Guynamednelson]

I hope Wariox3 never finds out if Nelvana owns a more iconic character than Timmy Turner.

And I'll bring up some more proof about why I think this "banjo should be chief" **** makes no sense:

like y'all play these games just to see Mario fight Sephiroth? Not for the gameplay?

If you don't care about a super epic-for-the-win crossover, and Banjo makes it less of a super-epic-for-the-win crossover than Chief, well...

Hell even loving the concept of Smash becoming a celebration of gaming conflicts with this.

 

[LimeTH]

And that's why I take issue with Banjo in Smash

Yeah I'm not getting it then. It kind of just sounds like you don't like Banjo-Kazooie or something.

 

[Baysha]

Tbh, I kinda feel like the "Ha! A random person on the internet has conflicting opinions!" thing is kinda silly. I don't really get why Wawawa thinks it should've been Master Chief instead of Banjo or why Disney TVA shouldn't be in a Disney platfighter but this is a funny video game forum, not some academically published journal or something. So I think that this whole thing is a little dumb.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

And I'll bring up some more proof about why I think this "banjo should be chief" **** makes no sense:

If you don't care about a super epic-for-the-win crossover, and Banjo makes it less of a super-epic-for-the-win crossover than Chief, well...

Hell even loving the concept of Smash becoming a celebration of gaming conflicts with this.

This isn't about "wowee! Master Chief next to Mario!", it's about honouring gaming history - I like the idea of Smash being a showcase of gaming milestones, an interactive museum almost - of important games mind you, not popular games, there's a lot of overlap, but still a distinction - and while I'm OK with 80% of it being Nintendo characters (even if I'd rather it wasn't), I absolutely do not want third parties chosen just because of Nintendo ties, and I absolutely do want Xbox and PlayStation games given proper respect.

 

[Guynamednelson]

This isn't about "wowee! Master Chief next to Mario!", it's about honouring gaming history - I like the idea of Smash being a showcase of gaming milestones, an interactive museum almost - of important games mind you, not popular games, there's a lot of overlap, but still a distinction - and while I'm OK with 80% of it being Nintendo characters (even if I'd rather it wasn't), I absolutely do not want third parties chosen just because of Nintendo ties, and I absolutely do want Xbox and PlayStation games given proper respect.

But you stated an opinion that sounds like you treat characters like functions. So it shouldn't matter if Banjo isn't Chief in that case, nor should it matter who anyone else is. In fact why don't you just enjoy Steve?

Tbh, I kinda feel like the "Ha! A random person on the internet has conflicting opinions!" thing is kinda silly. I don't really get why Wawawa thinks it should've been Master Chief instead of Banjo or why Disney TVA shouldn't be in a Disney platfighter but this is a funny video game forum, not some academically published journal or something. So I think that this whole thing is a little dumb.

It's only an issue here because Wariox3 seems to want to be the king of hot takes with no regard for whether or not it makes sense for the same takes to come from the same person. The same person who says "characters are just functions" or "we need more obscure characters" or "smash fans should stop taking the roster seriously and want meme characters" should have zero issues with Master Chief not being in the game.

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

so anyways if done correctly Oblina gets a lot of momentum after you jump cancel her wheel attack, resulting in her flying across the stage

https://twitter.com/nescartridges/status/1578457456401088512?s=20&t=nt1BXDzSibNdZDVZ2OFfiQ

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

But you stated an opinion that sounds like you treat characters like functions. So it shouldn't matter if Banjo isn't Chief in that case, nor should it matter who anyone else is. In fact why don't you just enjoy Steve?

My belief of characters as functions applies to moveset design, not roster design. When I say "characters are functions" I more mean it in the sense of "Aang/Mario/Ganondorf are fine even though they don't take from their source material" or "Mega Man/Min Min/Hero take too much from their source material to work properly and should be revamped to take less". I still have character picks I like and dislike on a conceptual level.

Also, Steve isn't an Xbox exclusive and never has been, so while he's still an extremely important character he doesn't fill my criteria for what I want from a Microsoft rep.

 

[dlewis53]

...Okay, I'm sorry, but WWW's lost me; WHY exactly does he have a problem with Banjo & Kazooie?

Because from where I'm standing, I see a duo that are:

1. Collectively two of the most requested characters ever (alongside the likes of K. Rool, Ridley, and Sora), and honestly since the days prior to Melee no less.

2. Have a history with Nintendo to the point that many (like myself) consider them Nintendo characters that simply are owned by a different company

and 3. Up until now haven't appeared on a Nintendo system proper since 2005's Banjo-Pilot.

With all that in mind, no freaking crap they were gonna hype this up, and the fans in turn ate it up, not to mention I feel like a lot of people beforehand felt that the Microsoft buyout of Rare severely hurt their chances, so to see this actually happen was something worthy to be proud of and build up.

Also, I don't get why you have such a problem with every DLC character having a trailer and a showcase; considering they didn't reveal all the fighters in both passes beforehand, they needed to market them somehow, particularly since there were likely people like me who bought both Passes before the entire roster was revealed. And again, I don't see the big deal regarding the showcases with Sakurai; he wanted to go into detail about each character, stage, and music, and considering that's what each pass was advertising in the first place, yeah, it makes sense to talk about this stuff.

So yeah, I don't get what your deal is about this stuff, dude.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Okay, I'm sorry, but WWW's lost me; WHY exactly does he have a problem with Banjo & Kazooie?

Guest characters apparently have to be completely irrelevant to what a game is supposed to be about. He'd have a heart attack if he ever played Dead by Daylight.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

1. Collectively two of the most requested characters ever (alongside the likes of K. Rool, Ridley, and Sora), and honestly since the days prior to Melee no less.

2. Have a history with Nintendo to the point that many (like myself) consider them Nintendo characters that simply are owned by a different company

and 3. Up until now haven't appeared on a Nintendo system proper since 2005's Banjo-Pilot.

1. Fan demand doesn't inherently make a pick good to me
2. That is the problem
3. That doesn't change anything considering your point #2

 

[Guynamednelson]

Fan demand does not matter to me

Well if it wasn't for fan demand we would've never gotten Hugh in NASB, and you're not Sakurai or Thaddeus or any other game director anyway.

 

[SneakyLink]

I think we need to move on before this discussion gets worse.