Nice Point Mafia Day 6 (5/8 to Lynch, Deadline: Saturday the 19th at Midnight)

[DtJ S2n]

So, you knew that Gheb and Xonar were the same alignment. So you knew that Gheb was Town. And that Swords was going to shoot him. Why did you do nothing to try to stop him? You didn't even say to Mentos "Do whatever it is you were going to do to stop him from shooting you" or the like. You did nothing. Heck, the last thing you said about him was that his anger wasn't making him look good. You just let an innocent die.

tl;dr, I don't believe your claim.

Really...

EBWOP, I forgot to answer your nKill question earlier.
Any of the suspects you've listed up til now sound good enough, other than Gheb. I think you should decide based on how MK flips, since it looks like that's the lynch toDay.

Seriously, anyone but Gheb. His recent posts have been a bit off, but I'm pretty sure he's just frustrated with how willing a majority of you are just willing to follow whomever threatens you.

And in that third post that you claim all I did was talk about his anger not making him good. I was answering the question Gheb himself asked when I defended him. Tbh, I didn't think of Mentos's power for saving Gheb. How do you know Mentos's power COULD save Gheb? It might just be something as simple as Commuter.

And I KNOW you left this information out on purpose. You're doing everything in your power to convince people I'm lying. unfortunately that's something you always do.

Important details need clarification:-you previously said, on the basis of PK's flip, Swarm was under the possibility of being a really tricky enemy. Under this possibility, why didn't you compare him to Xonar?

I mainly wanted to see what Hilt's alignment was. Hilt is really hard to detect as scum, and a valuable townie late game, so knowing his alignment was my priority. Xonar was next on the list for alignment I wanted to know, because of his claim and also his play that day phase. I was convinced Xonar was scum up to the point he actually defended himself, and past that I was still flip-flopping on his alignment.

Sorry for the triple posting and all, but I need to ask Sold2 a question:

1. If you find Nicholas1024 to be the most suspicious, why didn't you vote for him? A vote on him will clearly not put him in any danger.

I'd prefer to hear his response first, really. I'll admit Nich hasn't been my focus so it's possible I'm wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

unvote btw.elaborate plz considering you're still online.

Here is basically my case on Mentosman8. It's not much, but it is something.

I pinpointed three things I dislike about Mentosman8. They are these things:

#1: In #153, Mentosman8 spoke against discussing flavor mechanics. However, in these posts, he is guilty of discussing flavor mechanics as well:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10183289&postcount=190
He discusses wishes in the 2nd paragraph and the 4th paragraph, he discussed the consequences of all-training/letting people know who was training.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=10189846&postcount=276
The second sentence is where he disapprove of Cello Marl holding on to the Dragonballs. The last paragraph, he discusses wishes with Cello Marl, saying if there is a wish to reveal a scum, that he should do that.
Now why is it scummy? He manage to make himself look hypocritical with these posts.

#2: Regarding Mentosman8's excuse for not pushing a further case on Overswarm, to be honest, I don't see how he wouldn't have time to push a case on Overswarm and get him lynch, especially since Overswarm was at once point at L-3 after the Xonar incident went down. Let's see. The deadline for Day 1 was at May 12, 2010 Eastern Times. We lynched The Paprika Killer on May 11, 2010, who flipped town. The person he persuded was Overswarm in May 4, 2010 (Started to push Xonar on the same day thought). During the time between May 4, 2010 and May 7, 2010, he made a very solid case on Xonar and pushed him for awhile. Then when Xonar started to improve, he unvoted, which was on May 7, 2010. On that same post, he said that Overswarm has not changed his mind about finding Overswarm scummy, but never voted for him again. May 7, 2010-May 11, 2010 was plenty of time for him to continue to push a case on Overswarm and get him lynched. I don't see much of a connection between him and Overswarm, but he could have helped gotten Overswarm lynched Day 1.

#3: Look at #1044 during Twlight 2. Mentosman8 said to SwordsRbroken if Swords attempted to kill him, he would stop him from doing so. I find this interesting and slightly scummy. Why? Because Mentosman8 just gave us evidence that he could be a roleblocker. The role can go either way. This is why I encourage not believing a town roleblocker claim, because it can be a safeclaim. Remember when Meta-Kirby claimed Town Absorber? Yeah, he fliped Independent Absorber.

@Mentosman8: I want you to 100% successfully refute all these points against me. Until then or if I find someone else scummier, my vote will stay on you.

 

[Deleted member]

I'd prefer to hear his response first, really. I'll admit Nich hasn't been my focus so it's possible I'm wrong.

This is a contradiction. You said that Nicholas1024 hasn't been your focus, but earlier, you mentioned him as a top suspect and so far, Nicholas1024 has not posted anything between that post where you mentioned your suspects and this post I'm responding to.

 

[DtJ S2n]

This is a contradiction. You said that Nicholas1024 hasn't been your focus, but earlier, you mentioned him as a top suspect and so far, Nicholas1024 has not posted anything between that post where you mentioned your suspects and this post I'm responding to.

Are you talking about me at #1154? I haven't been suspecting Nich until very late D2. However, the majority of the game, I haven't looked much into him. Not a contradiction, that's just you not understanding me.

 

[Deleted member]

Are you talking about me at #1154? I haven't been suspecting Nich until very late D2. However, the majority of the game, I haven't looked much into him. Not a contradiction, that's just you not understanding me.

Yes, it wad #1154.

So you started to suspect Nicholas1024 very late Day 2? If you did, you should have voiced out your suspicion of Nicholas1024 right then instead of waiting until just hours ago to tell us. You could have used the beginning of Day 3 to push a case against him and people would be more likely to believe you then.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Don't criticize my playstyle, SSBF. I think I've said it before, but I'm not going to announce what I do before I do it. I don't see the merit in it, and it gives scum knowledge of what cases are safe to push.

 

[Nicholas1024]

Well, I spose I gotta. Cleary, you all are making more offenses than I can defenses and the more I read Cello posts, the less I care.

I'm Goku, the cop. I was originally a Comparison Cop, and then trained up to a normal Cop. Last night I gained the ability to choose between the two of these. Night 1 I compared Hilt/Gheb and Xonar and received the result "Same Alignment". Night 2 I investigated SwordsRBroken and received the result "Not Mafia."

*sigh*. The claim's about as solid as you can get. However, after scum wars, just the claim won't save you.

I'm unsure which questions and cases I'd consider important after this claim, but I'll go ahead and answer the most basic question, "Who's scum?" from Swords. As I said earlier, I dislike Nicholas and I'm still interested in Jungle.

Nicholas seems to have been in a terrible accident with a drunk seamstress who has sewed his lips to Cello's rear. A quick search of all Nicholas's posts, searching for the keyword "Cello" shows that 39 of his 89 posts (close to half) mention Cello. I never remember Nich mentioning anything bad about Cello, so I imagine all of those must be praising him in some way or another. Also I noticed that Nich has been supporting my lynch this entire time, and has even found "incriminating" evidence against me, and makes it clear that I'm his number 1 suspect, but never voted me, even when I wasn't L-1. It just feels like to me, he's just going with what he thinks is popular while befriending the most aggressive player in the game. Also, I have to ask. Where did your suspicion on Swords go? That was one of the only instances of you disagreeing Cello I've found, and suddenly you don't even care about him, allowing him to go right back to what you found him suspicious for earlier without caring.

Please tell me, what's wrong with agreeing with someone? And since when did being cautious with your vote on D3 become scummy? Also, FYI, not saying anything bad =/= praising someone constantly. I decided that Swords was either vig or SK, because a mafia vig claim isn't likely, and he was incredibly strong on the Overswarm wagon. Besides, the sudden huge push out of nowhere for his lynch made me think that mafia was on the wagon.

Anyways, do you have a defense that doesn't involve your claim?

Vote: Sold2

Willing to switch to Jungle, as he's done absolutely nothing(as several people have already said).

I think that puts Sold back at L-1.

 

[Kataefi]

Nich, could you elaborate as to what happened in scum wars?

 

[Rockin]

Hmm...in terms of Gheb and Clownbot being lifelocked would all depend on one's POV of something. If we were to look at it flavor-wise, then yeah, they shouldn't have been lifelocked in that situation (since they would need to fuse in order to do so). However, if we were to look at it mechanical-wise, then the chances would be 60-40 (60 being less likely of lifelocked). I don't want to try and guess the mod though, so because of the situation, I'm gonna say that they were lifelocked in some way (actually, constantly looking at it is like a slight WIFOM to me).

Thinking about it now, Night results have seem to be nothing but wifom

N1, Xonar is dead, but the yak (OS) was also shown and Sword claims to have shot him (something that I'm believing ftm)

N2, Gheb and Clownbot who are Goten and Trunks. Both masons, both fusers.

Argh...

Looking at Cello's case, aside from the meta, that last bold of the quote caught my interest. However, that soon conflicts with Sold2's claim (which is a cop). I'm unsure about lynching sold2 cause of this, especially with no counterclaim. I can't see why a cop would protect OS like that (Mind you, the quote cello bolded was D1). While I'm not totally disagreeing with you on this case, I can't see how he's scummy due to the claim.

@Rockin: I'll answer that now. Something happened to me. I want to see if any of you claim credit for it, as that should narrow the lynch pool. It may be good, it may be bad, but whoever did it knows what it was. I have a good idea of who it was, but I'm just being thorough.

Can you specifically explain what happen?

As far as the Nich and Cello buddying....eh, that's a bit of a gray area. I don't see too much of the buddying (to what I believe is budding anyway), but I see a high confidence from Nich that believes Cello is town. Nich, from D1 to D3, do you still have that high confidence that Cello is town?

as for my suspects, all I have legitimatly is Junglefever. Sold2 and Kat are gray/neutral to me right now. Either they havn't said too much, or I can't get a read off of them (More like the 2nd one).

also Kat, I'm not sure if you answered Cello's question, but did you do anything to him any of the previous nights?

 

[Nicholas1024]

In scum wars, a guy was on the chopping block, and claimed governor. We lynched him, he saved himself, and we left him alone for the rest of the game. He was a scum governor. (We lost. Big time.)

Also, in UCM, a scum was given an exhausted cop claim as a safeclaim. (Although, on a more positive note, we lynched the guy anyway. and won.)

I'm quite aware that should Sold2 flip cop as he claimed, my neck will be on the line tomorrow, but I've got a strong enough scum read on him that I don't care.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Rockin
On early D2, my town read of him suffered a little due to the yak, but when he continued playing the same pro-town way, it jumped right back up. So yeah, I've basically been confident in Cello-town all game.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Half-ISOread Nich and I guess his lips are more intact and seperate than I thought. I'll reevaluate when I get my thoughts together. In the meantime I'll defend.

Please tell me, what's wrong with agreeing with someone? And since when did being cautious with your vote on D3 become scummy? Also, FYI, not saying anything bad =/= praising someone constantly. I decided that Swords was either vig or SK, because a mafia vig claim isn't likely, and he was incredibly strong on the Overswarm wagon. Besides, the sudden huge push out of nowhere for his lynch made me think that mafia was on the wagon.

First question doesn't apply anymore, but I'll answer anyways. Agreeing with someone isn't scummy, but doing it consistently or constantly is. Riding someone else's opinions is not acceptable. [/QUOTE]
Well, not agreeing, but relying on someone else's arguments. And if you agreed with someone for an entire game, it'd you'd just following that person, not really helping.

The sudden push for his lynch was justified imo. He wasn't being useful, and his defense was weak. Also just like to say, while you never voted Swords(I think...), you did support his lynch until his vig claim(where it still looked like you would prefer it).

Anyways, do you have a defense that doesn't involve your claim?

Direct me to the offense that needs to be addressed.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Don't believe the claim. Cello is right, if you compared xonar and gheb and xonar flipped town, then why didn't you try to stop me from killing gheb?

 

[Deleted member]

Don't criticize my playstyle, SSBF. I think I've said it before, but I'm not going to announce what I do before I do it. I don't see the merit in it, and it gives scum knowledge of what cases are safe to push.

I am not criticizing your game play here, as a matter of fact, I may even take that into consideration to adapt that play style into mine. However, voicing your suspicion does not require waiting until the next post to explain why you find that person scummy.

You could have just done this at the beginning of Day 3...

"I am finding Nicholas1024 suspicious, here are my reasons why I find the person suspicious [Insert vote at the end if necessary]."

And you would be done with it. On top of that, you could have said that Nicholas1024 was suspicoius to you and explain why you found him suspicious in the exact same post. No need to announce beforehand. Doing it earlier would have gotten people to be a lot more influenced by your suspect list.

 

[mentosman8]

First of all @SSBF: No thank you. Your "case" on me pretty much surrounds assumptions and telling me what I did or didn't have a chance to do. The mechanics thing is just lulworthy. Even with it being a dead-end conversation, making comments on mechanical things doesn't mean hypocrisy, it means everyone decided to talk about it anyway and things were getting to a point where I had to say something about it. Just because I don't agree with a conversation line and think it's worthless doesn't mean I shouldn't point out problems with what other people are saying if it's the majority of discussion.

Second of all, I pretty much believe Sold on his claim. Don't think he's the lynch for the day, in part because, well, I really don't think a whole lot of Cello's argument(the main points presented against him) is all that great, and in part because it's a really good claim and an unlikely yak target.

Debating who to lynch today. Really not too sure, but I'll get back with something before too long.

 

[Kataefi]

I don't think we're in a position to believe Sold's claim, particularly with the yakuza role, as gheb strongly mentioned earlier. D1 - we lynched townie, because of extended discussion in which we could have hit swarm. A masoned watcher/tracker, and this sudden addition of a cop is a lot of investigation. Mentos, question, why are you trusting sold's claim considering the yakuza? You said something completely different with Swords yesterDay. Also can I add, Sold, you training has made your ability worse - you downgraded yourself through this, which makes the claim itself refutable.

I feel that it's necessary to get things moving. vote: sold2. Time to hit some scum.

Swords, also, shoot jungle.

 

[Xiivi]

Day 3 Ends & Twilight 3 Begins!

Day 3 Vote Count 3
(5) sold2: cello, jungle, srb, nick, kat
(1) Jungle: rockin
(1) mentosman8: ssbf
(0) cello_marl:
(0) kataefi:
(0) nicholas1024:
(0) rockin:
(0) super smash bros. fan:
(0) swordsrbroken:

Not Voting: mentos, sold

Twilight until 05.30.10 10:00PM EST.

 

[mentosman8]

Kata, I don't see Sold as a likely yak target, he hadn't really made any kind of presence yet. Plus I really haven't seen the case on him as all that strong, and, well, if we're going the yak route a big bit of the case was based on D1 interactions about Cello's plan/OS, at which point yak is ruled out. When the heaviest part of a case on someone comes from D1, that implies that they were scum D1. I don't see Goku as being inherently scum, and since the case is based on pre-yak time predominately, it makes me more inclined to believe his claim.

If he does flip scum, I really didn't see the strength of the case against him. Either way, if he flips scum can we please finally lynch Cello tomorrow? If Sold=town, I'll feel even stronger that Cello is potential scum(also, has nobody considered Cello being potential yakked besides me? Scum's strongest play if his claim was real, which if he started town would be likely). If he flips scum, I'll trust Cello a bit more, but not a whole lot.

 

[Kataefi]

Understood, but his claim suggests he trained to become an inferior cop to what he already was, which struck me as really really odd.

 

[Deleted member]

@Kataefi: Didn't SwordsRbroken say late in Day 2 in his Vigilante claim that he killed Overswarm Night 1? If so, then Overswarm couldn't have possibly yakked anyone.

 

[Nicholas1024]

@SSBF
It depends on the mechanics. It may be possible that OS yakked someone and mafia still got to use their NK, we just don't know.

 

[mentosman8]

Also, yak takes priority over vig in most setups. Hence, it's very likely that OS yakked, considering that he felt his alignment was outed. And Kata, he claimed to become a regular cop after training which is definitely an upgrade over comparison cop, not a downgrade.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Hm, yeah, jungle will likely be my target tonight.

 

[Kataefi]

Also, yak takes priority over vig in most setups. Hence, it's very likely that OS yakked, considering that he felt his alignment was outed. And Kata, he claimed to become a regular cop after training which is definitely an upgrade over comparison cop, not a downgrade.

But look at the specific results he's telling us - a "not mafia" result on swords is weaker than a "same alignment" result he could have got instead, had he remained a comparison cop and compared Xonar with him. From this we would have known clearly whether swords was a vig or an SK. Don't you agree this is a downgrade in terms of results, not necessarily the role?

 

[Deleted member]

@Kataefi: We have to remember that in Night 2, Sold2 told us that he gained the ability to both compare and investigate to see if a person is scum or not. Maybe he did downgrade in training Night 1, but I honestly doubt being able to both compare and investigate a single person with choices between them is a downgrade.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Hm, yeah, jungle will likely be my target tonight.

Does ANYONE care to say why I'm suspicious other than I've been on vacation?

 

[Deleted member]

Does ANYONE care to say why I'm suspicious other than I've been on vacation?

Would anyone mind if I told who I want to imprison ToNight?

@Swords: No offense, but I'd prefer if you killed either Nicholas1024 or Mentosman8.

 

[DtJ S2n]

Expected this, but it's all cool I still love you all kinda but not really. I'm sad that I got lynched simply because Cello says so, and attaches on some irrelevant BS and dresses it up to look convincing. You guys just don't know, man.

Anyone need anything else from me before I go to Snake Road? (I'll be back don't worry, I'm the main character, fools.)

@Swords, kill whoever you want it doesn't even matter at this point. Have fun.

 

[mentosman8]

Sold: Who do you find most supsicious as of this point?

@Swords: Why do you keep saying who you're going to kill? If you are a vig it hurts your ability to work effectively, and makes it incredibly easy for mafia to frame you>_>

 

[Deleted member]

@Swords: Why do you keep saying who you're going to kill? If you are a vig it hurts your ability to work effectively, and makes it incredibly easy for mafia to frame you>_>

If you were responding to me, I'm going to take it as "No, don't tell ANYONE who you want to imprison ToNight."

 

[Nicholas1024]

@Swords
Jungle sounds fine for a kill choice.

@SSBF
Why are you suspicious of me?

 

[mentosman8]

Actually no SSBF, I was talking to Swords as it quite clearly said in the post. Honestly it doesn't matter who you imprison, it really doesn't make much of an effect, and mafia really couldn't frame you. So yeah, when I said Swords don't tell people who you're going to vig, I meant, Swords, don't tell anyone who you're going to vig.

On a related note Swords, if(and likely when) sold flips town DO NOT SHOOT. If you shoot tonight after a town flip and hit town instead of mafia, assuming there are 3 maf left that's game over. Do not take the risk if this is a town flip, because I really don't want to have no chance at another lynch because of a misplaced vig shot ending the game.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

I don't know what to do. I'm going on vacation very early monday morning. If sold flips town then i might relent from killing.

 

[Nicholas1024]

I think you should shoot. A vig shot is too precious to waste, and not to mention we'd likely lynch jungle tomorrow anyway if you no-shot.

 

[Deleted member]

Deadline is approaching in less then an hour so I need to get my thoughts out on Sold2's lynch.
To be honest, I'm not really comfortable with the lynch. Sure Sold2 did have a slightly scummy read from me, but after his claim, I have a really bad feeling that his claim was true, even thought he is getting lynched. Plus I feel like we scrambled for a lynch too quickly.

@SSBF
Why are you suspicious of me?

I really don't have any solidfied scum reads yet (Mentosman8 is the closest thought, hence my Day 3 vote on him), but I somewhat suspicious of both you and Mentosman8. Mentos for reasons I've already explained and you for two things:

1. You and Cello Marl seems to have a connection with each other. While not all of your posts has been agreeing with Cello Marl like Sold2 makes it out to be, a fair amount of them have been supporting Cello Marl's ideas. If either of you flip Mafia, then it's more likely then not so is the other.

2. You basically parroted me once. Looking back, I noticed something that no one else has discussed on. Your #419 is very similar to my #417 and #418 on my response to Meta-Kirby.

 

[Cello_Marl]

Swords, you should shoot no matter what, but especially if he flips town. If scum knows who my partner is, or even guesses and get it right (and they should have a 50/50 shot of that at least), then I die along with him and we've lost.

 

[Xiivi]

Night 3 Begins & Twilight 3 Ends!

Sold2, Mafia Recruited Cop, Goku has been lynched!

Please send in all night actions by 06.01.10 11:59PM EST to Xiivi/Ronike.

 

[Xiivi]

Day 4 Begins & Night 3 Ends!

Junglefever, Freiza Mafia Scouter is murdered.

Day 4 Vote Count 0
(0) cello_marl:
(0) kataefi:
(0) mentosman8:
(0) nicholas1024:
(0) rockin:
(0) super smash bros. fan:
(0) swordsrbroken:

Not Voting: cello, kat, mentos, nick, rockin, ssbf, srb

4/7 to Lynch

Deadline June 11th, 11:59 P.M. EST

 

[Deleted member]

Hooray for two more scums are dead!

With two more scums dead, we have a LOT to work on. Let's use it to our full potential.

 

[mentosman8]

Hey Cello, out of curiosity, did you receive any night flavor about receiving a present, or anything odd that you don't think you should have? Please only Cello answer this for now.