Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

My issue with Ravenbeak (and by extension, Sylux) is that he's another character in power armor who fights with an arm cannon. With Dark Samus sticking around, that brings us to three characters with that kind of power fantasy, and I'm not sure that's the best idea for variety reasons, especially if we're cutting a whole bunch of characters.

Although, I suppose what I'm worried about is reception due to repeated concepts on the roster generally being viewed with disdain, which is a little silly considering how many people want him. lol

I don't see it a problem anymore than it is to have the multiple characters with a sword. I think it also helps that I really don't imagine Raven Beak as being a zoner character despite having an arm cannon, in fact he's much scarier up close and he often uses his arm cannon to create a giant plasma beam which he swings more like a sword, although I'm sure he'd havea projectile or two as well.

Spoiler

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Ya know, it would be cool if the wings were treated as a stance. You'd initiate it like you would Peach's float, but you'd only be able to fly in place, and exiting the stance would have a bit of lag to it. In exchange Ravenbeak would gain access to very strong projectile attacks (probably either his omni-directional Fox Laser style move, the beeg laser, or both).

Perhaps taking too much damage in this stance would cause the opponent to rip off your wing, removing access to it, but buffing your normal kit. Kinda like how Vega works except it's a side grade rather than "oops your item randomly fell off, guess your gameplan doesn't work anymore. lol".

 

[HyperSomari64]

Mega Man, Zero, and Samus together since they’re all futuristic characters with arm cannons and some kind of armor

actually, X and Zero doesn't even have hair under thieir helmets.

This is because they were the first ones created, and Cain used X as the base of the Reploid population. This explains why they have circuits and machinery inside their "armor" (actually their body), while other Reploids have an actual body

Spoiler: Horny (Don't click)

Now that i think off, it is like that DORKLY animation where Yoshi gets it's "shoes" off, but instead of gruesome imagery, it's circuitry and chips lol

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

actually, X and Zero doesn't even have hair under thieir helmets.

This is because they were the first ones created, and Cain used X as the base of the Reploid population. This explains why they have circuits and machinery inside their "armor" (actually their body), while other Reploids have an actual body

Spoiler: Horny (Don't click)

Now that i think off, it is like that DORKLY animation where Yoshi gets it's "shoes" off, but instead of gruesome imagery, it's circuitry and chips lol

OK now I want a crossover scene with Mega Man and X where Mega Man takes off his helmet and X is like "you have hair?"

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Ya know, it would be cool if the wings were treated as a stance. You'd initiate it like you would Peach's float, but you'd only be able to fly in place, and exiting the stance would have a bit of lag to it. In exchange Ravenbeak would gain access to very strong projectile attacks (probably either his omni-directional Fox Laser style move, the beeg laser, or both).

Perhaps taking too much damage in this stance would cause the opponent to rip off your wing, removing access to it, but buffing your normal kit. Kinda like how Vega works except it's a side grade rather than "oops your item randomly fell off, guess your gameplan doesn't work anymore. lol".

That could be interesting risk/reward mechanic, sort of like winged form Sephiroth but it forces you at high percentage to give up recovery potential with the trade off that it provides really powerful moves.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay, so…let’s say the next Smash had 50 veterans, 15 newcomers, and 5 Echo Fighters. That’s about 70 characters. What kind of roster would you guys be able to make with those numbers?

Unique Veterans:






Echo Fighters:
+ Louie & Moss

Newcomers
1. Waluigi
2. Cranky Kong
3. Master Kohga
4. Bandana Dee
5. New Pokémon
6. Excitebiker
7. Captain & Oatchi
8. Octoling
9. Off The Hook
10. Isaac
11. Legion
12. Shadow
13. Chun-Li
14. Alucard
15. Zero

 

[Will]

Spoiler: Horny (Don't click)

Who’s supposed to get horny from this? Ants?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Who’s supposed to get horny from this? Ants?

Sorry but that's only size of this image i could find lmao
Just right click and open it in a new tab.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m not sure if it’s just me but about 90% the images I try to copy and paste here from Google don’t work. I usually just get a text link. The other 10% of the time it works fine. I end up spending way more time than I should just trying to find an image that actually copies over here correctly. I’m not super tech savvy so I’m sure I’m doing something wrong on my end but it’s definitely annoying.

 

[SubspaceJigglypuff]

I’m not sure if it’s just me but about 90% the images I try to copy and paste here from Google don’t work. I usually just get a text link. The other 10% of the time it works fine. I end up spending way more time than I should just trying to find an image that actually copies over here correctly. I’m not super tech savvy so I’m sure I’m doing something wrong on my end but it’s definitely annoying.

Here's what I like to do. Download images to your computer, click the "Insert Image" button (it's the button to the left of the smiley face button). Go to where it says "Drop image (or click here)", and click it, select your image on your computer.

Then it'll ask you to pick between inserting the thumbnail or full image. Pick whichever you want. If you still wanna resize ur image afterwards. Then click the image and a pop down menu appears. Hit the second option and you'll get to choose the width and height. Usually I go with 425 for large images.

 

[Gengar84]

Here's what I like to do. Download images to your computer, click the "Insert Image" button (it's the button to the left of the smiley face button). Go to where it says "Drop image (or click here)", and click it, select your image on your computer.

Then it'll ask you to pick between inserting the thumbnail or full image. Pick whichever you want. If you still wanna resize ur image afterwards. Then click the image and a pop down menu appears. Hit the second option and you'll get to choose the width and height. Usually I go with 425 for large images.

99% of the time I post here, I’m on my iPhone and not my PC but I think the same general concept should work if I save the image to my phone instead. Thanks, I’ll give that a try.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Playing around with this idea some more:
Normally:

• Neutral Special: Pretty much just Fox's Laser. Use when you want opponents to come to you.
• Side Special: The slow, black orb that tracks you. Can be easily destroyed by most characters and is more meant for you to punish their reaction to it than to actually zone with it.
• Up Special: The speed dash thingy. Acts like pretty much a clone of Pichu's Agility.
• Down Special: Energy shield that gives him super armor against projectiles. Normal attacks remove the shield, and do more damage and knockback to boot. Ravenbeak can get rid of the shield on his own.

During Flight:

• Attack Button: Ravenbeak swoops in the direction of the control stick, or forward if none. This deals damage on the way, but it has a lot of end lag, ends Flight (you can only enter flight stance once until you touch the ground again), and the hitboxes aren't at all disjointed so he can be hit out of it.
• Special Attack Button: His Neutral Special, but now it's omnidirectional.

When Wings are Broken:

• Neutral Special: Now has a charged variant that fires the beeg laser. Act's like Byleth's Failnaught in that you commit to the charge once you start it, but it's omni-directional once you do.
• Side Special: Now has a charged variant that summons the almighty bullet hell sun, a projectile that hangs around and denies a huge area by firing a bunch of other projectiles downward. These projectiles don't have any knockback since that would be broken. Can be destroyed, and reflecting it can cause major problems for the Ravenbeak player.
• Up Special: Now has a charged variant that has only one dash, but ends in a punch that deals high damage and knockback. So, a worse recovery option in exchange for a good K.O. move, and sometimes you just want a hitbox on your recovery.
• Down Special: Energy shield now absorbs projectiles entirely.

This is kind of an extension of what my original idea, though I do kind of like King Sonnn DeDeDoo 's idea of having it be a more risk/reward type of mechanic, so maybe instead of these new abilities being charge variants, Ravenbeak decides he's done messing around with the utility projectiles and the more powerful variants are all he has access too, which would remove utility from his gameplan and make it all about taking you down. Use the sun to get them where you want them, then use the laser or the punch dash to knock them out. This would also mean he's even more vulnerable in disadvantage, as on top of losing flight stance to mixup landings, he can no longer juke opponents with his recovery...In fact after thinking about it, I think I like that idea even more.

 

[Gengar84]

Playing around with this idea some more:
Normally:

• Neutral Special: Pretty much just Fox's Laser. Use when you want opponents to come to you.
• Side Special: The slow, black orb that tracks you. Can be easily destroyed by most characters and is more meant for you to punish their reaction to it than to actually zone with it.
• Up Special: The speed dash thingy. Acts like pretty much a clone of Pichu's Agility.
• Down Special: Energy shield that gives him super armor against projectiles. Normal attacks remove the shield, and do more damage and knockback to boot. Ravenbeak can get rid of the shield on his own.

During Flight:

• Attack Button: Ravenbeak swoops in the direction of the control stick, or forward if none. This deals damage on the way, but it has a lot of end lag, ends Flight (you can only enter flight stance once until you touch the ground again), and the hitboxes aren't at all disjointed so he can be hit out of it.
• Special Attack Button: His Neutral Special, but now it's omnidirectional.

When Wings are Broken:

• Neutral Special: Now has a charged variant that fires the beeg laser. Act's like Byleth's Failnaught in that you commit to the charge once you start it, but it's omni-directional once you do.
• Side Special: Now has a charged variant that summons the almighty bullet hell sun, a projectile that hangs around and denies a huge area by firing a bunch of other projectiles downward. These projectiles don't have any knockback since that would be broken. Can be destroyed, and reflecting it can cause major problems for the Ravenbeak player.
• Up Special: Now has a charged variant that has only one dash, but ends in a punch that deals high damage and knockback. So, a worse recovery option in exchange for a good K.O. move, and sometimes you just want a hitbox on your recovery.
• Down Special: Energy shield now absorbs projectiles entirely.

This is kind of an extension of what my original idea, though I do kind of like King Sonnn DeDeDoo 's idea of having it be a more risk/reward type of mechanic, so maybe instead of these new abilities being charge variants, Ravenbeak decides he's done messing around with the utility projectiles and the more powerful variants are all he has access too, which would remove utility from his gameplan and make it all about taking you down. Use the sun to get them where you want them, then use the laser or the punch dash to knock them out. This would also mean he's even more vulnerable in disadvantage, as on top of losing flight stance to mixup landings, he can no longer juke opponents with his recovery...In fact after thinking about it, I think I like that idea even more.

These are some really good ideas. For the down special, are there any advantages over a standard reflector like Fox’s? The final segment of the game would make for a really awesome Final Smash for both Raven Beak and Samus.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

These are some really good ideas. For the down special, are there any advantages over a standard reflector like Fox’s?

I suppose I didn't explain that very well. It's Bounce, but not a reflector, which I think makes it infinitely more powerful than traditional reflectors. That's the reason why melee attacks do more damage and knockback and remove the effect; It'd be super broken in certain matchups if they didn't. It was also inspired by the fact that countering him with the Melee Counter is what removes it in Metroid Dread.

EDIT: The other thought behind the mechanic is the it can pretty much invalidate the neutral of characters who rely on projectiles, but if they back air or smash attack you you're going to be in trouble.

 

[Gengar84]

I suppose I didn't explain that very well. It's Bounce, but not a reflector, which I think makes it infinitely more powerful than traditional reflectors. That's the reason why melee attacks do more damage and knockback and remove the effect; It'd be super broken in certain matchups if they didn't. It was also inspired by the fact that countering him with the Melee Counter is what removes it in Metroid Dread.

Oh I see. That is really cool. That’s the one part of his boss fight I was never able to beat lol. I always sucked at timing Samus’ counter so I needed help with the second half of Raven Beak’s boss fight and the previous fight in the area just before him.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Like Honey Queen?

Yeah, I'd argue it was kind weird. She's bigger than Ridley usually is.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Okay, so…let’s say the next Smash had 50 veterans, 15 newcomers, and 5 Echo Fighters. That’s about 70 characters. What kind of roster would you guys be able to make with those numbers?

50 Unique Fighters:
64:
(Look and some new moves from Dead),
Melee:

Brawl:

4:
Ultimate:
(upgraded from being an echo to a fighter due to Samus based on Dread),

5 Echo Fighters:

(no longer a costume alt and has Rock and Ice Pikmin instead of Purple and White Pikmin), Octoling (echo of Inkling), Mio (echo of Noah)

15 Newcomers:
Bandana Waddle Dee (Kirby)
Oatchi (Pikmin)
Ryu Hayabusa (Ninja Gaiden)
Ashley (Warioware)
Crash (Crash Bandicoot)
Mii Mage
a Pokemon (Eevee, Hisuian Zoroark, Cinderace, Urshifu, Mewscarada, Tinkaton, Gholdengo, Orgepon, or from Gen 10)
Officer Howard (Astral Chain)
Off the Hook (Splatoon)
Glee Club (Rhythm Heaven)
Sylux (Metroid)
Noah (Xenoblade)
Raven Beak (Metroid)
Ayumi Tachibana (Famicom Detective Club)
Geno (Super Mario)

 

[fogbadge]

what was it, 50 veterans, 15 newcomers and 5 echoes? I'll have a go

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think I missed a couple

1. Toad
2. Chibi-Robo
3. Tails
4. Bandana Dee
5. Rex
6. Noah
7. Impa
8. Otachi
9. Tom Nook
10. Officer Howard
11. Ashley Mizuki Robins
12. Professor Lyaton
13. Phoenix Wright
14. Chorus Kids
15. Isaac

and now echoes

1. Toadette
2. Octoling
3. Lucina
4. Gooigi
5. Digby

 

[Hypercat-Z]

Okay, so…let’s say the next Smash had 50 veterans, 15 newcomers, and 5 Echo Fighters. That’s about 70 characters. What kind of roster would you guys be able to make with those numbers?

Veterans:
1.Mario(Dr. Mario becomes a alt)
2.Luigi
3.Peach (Daisy returns a alt)
4.Bowser
5.Bowser Jr.
6iranha Plant
7.Yoshi
8.Donkey Kong
9.Diddy Kong
10.King Kroc Rool
11.Wario
12.Link
13.Toon Link
14.Zelda/Sheik(as a whole like in Melee)
15.Ganondorf
16.Samus/Zero Suit Samus(as whole like in Melee)
17.Ridley
18.Kirby
19.King Dedede
20.Metaknight
21.Pokemon Trainer
22.Pikachu
23.Mewtwo
24.Greninja
24.Incineroar
25.Little Mac
26.Captain Falcon
27.Ryu
28.Hero
29.Cloud
30.Sephiroth
31.Pyra/Mythra
32.Olimar
33.Banjo-Kazooie
34.Fox (Falco and wolf Becomes alts)
35.Isabelle
36.Villager (Mario Kart version)
37.Megaman(SNES version)
38.Pit(Dark Pit returns a alt)
39.Palutena
40.Simon (Richter and the other belmonts become alts)
41.Wii Fit Trainer
42.Mr. Game & Watch
43.R.O.B.
44.Duck Hunt
45.Sonic
46.Pac-Man
47.Ness(Ninten and Lucas as alts.)
48.Inkling
49.Marth(with Lucina as alt)
50.Mii Fighter

Newcomers:
1.Meowscarada
2.Krystal
3.Conker
4.Barbara the bat
5.Urban Champion
6.Arcade Bunny
7.Pole Bear
8.Toon Zelda/Captain Tetra(switchable)
9.Wolf Link and Midna
10.Samurai Goroh
11.Waluigi
12.Blinky (with the other ghosts as alts)
13.Rayman
14:Ring Fit Trainer
15.Alear

Echos:
1.Ken
2.Dark Samus
3.Pauline (Echo of Peach with Toadette as echo of Toad)
4.Knuckles
5.Dixie Kong

NGL It took me a pair of hours and I'm still not totally satisfied.

 

[fogbadge]

10.King Kroc Rool

where did you get that from?

 

[Shinuto]

Veterans:
1.Mario(Dr. Mario becomes a alt)
2.Luigi
3.Peach (Daisy returns a alt)
4.Bowser
5.Bowser Jr.
6iranha Plant
7.Yoshi
8.Donkey Kong
9.Diddy Kong
10.King Kroc Rool
11.Wario
12.Link
13.Toon Link
14.Zelda/Sheik(as a whole like in Melee)
15.Ganondorf
16.Samus/Zero Suit Samus(as whole like in Melee)
17.Ridley
18.Kirby
19.King Dedede
20.Metaknight
21.Pokemon Trainer
22.Pikachu
23.Mewtwo
24.Greninja
24.Incineroar
25.Little Mac
26.Captain Falcon
27.Ryu
28.Hero
29.Cloud
30.Sephiroth
31.Pyra/Mythra
32.Olimar
33.Banjo-Kazooie
34.Fox (Falco and wolf Becomes alts)
35.Isabelle
36.Villager (Mario Kart version)
37.Megaman(SNES version)
38.Pit(Dark Pit returns a alt)
39.Palutena
40.Simon (Richter and the other belmonts become alts)
41.Wii Fit Trainer
42.Mr. Game & Watch
43.R.O.B.
44.Duck Hunt
45.Sonic
46.Pac-Man
47.Ness(Ninten and Lucas as alts.)
48.Inkling
49.Marth(with Lucina as alt)
50.Mii Fighter

Newcomers:
1.Meowscarada
2.Krystal
3.Conker
4.Barbara the bat
5.Urban Champion
6.Arcade Bunny
7.Pole Bear
8.Toon Zelda/Captain Tetra(switchable)
9.Wolf Link and Midna
10.Samurai Goroh
11.Waluigi
12.Blinky (with the other ghosts as alts)
13.Rayman
14:Ring Fit Trainer
15.Alear

Echos:
1.Ken
2.Dark Samus
3.Pauline (Echo of Peach with Toadette as echo of Toad)
4.Knuckles
5.Dixie Kong

NGL It took me a pair of hours and I'm still not totally satisfied.

I hate to say this but that newcomer list sucks even if everyone in Ultimate returned. WITH the cuts you made to the roster the newcomers are godawful. Also the hell is up with Pauline as Peach echo, taking Daisy back to alt status and doing t hat random ass character choice with Pauline would be confusing and infuriating to Daisy fans and just general smash fans. No one's going to be excited to play Arcade Bunny, Polar Bear, or Blinky (wtf would he even do) and Barbara the Bat is waaaaaay too obscure and unpopular as a pick with all these cuts and the general lack of OOMPH to the newcomer list.

 

[pitchfulprocessing]

Doesn't mean loads. but still pretty wild seeing Sackboy and Ratchet on Switch in a PlayStation game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

 

[fogbadge]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

i think it's portrayal is pretty decent. I wouldn't mind a bit more music and maybe a new stage. although I imagine its spiritual successor will get more attention in the next smash

 

[NintenRob]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

I think it's pretty good and certainly belongs. Wii Fit Trainer was kinda a perfect addition to me. A wild oddball pick that simultaneously also makes total sense and belongs in Smash. Also she's pretty unique in that she has a different dub in British English Vs US English (though it'd be cool to choose which one)

 

[dream1ng]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

I understand why they chose Wii Fit Trainer, and I'm not going to say the inclusion was "undeserved", but I've never been anything more than, at best, ambivalent towards that inclusion.

I get it sort of represents Smash's wacky, unexpected side, and demonstrates Sakurai's creativity - and Wii Fit was obviously huge - but despite all that, and despite other characters included of that vein who I think are just more interesting, this character has just always seemed a little boring and forgettable to me. Part of that is because they were literally designed to be generic.

Like, Ring Fit Trainer, just as a character, seems infinitely more interesting than Wii Fit Trainer.

I guess another part is because I've played Wii Fit a little, but, I mean, I'd hardly call myself a "fan". It was fine, but... most of the Wii series in general wasn't my bag, Wii Fit very much part of it. I'm not the demographic.

The way it was depicted in Smash is probably as best as you can hope for if you're going to make it playable, but... despite its positives of being creative and "deserving", I still think there were other choices that may have been more warmly received and less... milquetoast?

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

I think its portrayal is pretty good. Maybe a bit more music, though I don't know what they'd add.

Since the Wii was Nintendo's most successful console launch at the time of Smash 4 (the only systems that sold better than it on Nintendo's end were the DS and Game Boy/Game Boy Color counted together) and Wii Fit was itself the sixth best selling game on the system, I think it makes perfect sense to be included in retrospect.

I remember being really apprehensive about Wii Fit Trainer initially (especially since she was shown later in the day so quietly and casually after the big hype of a new Smash and Mega Man's announcement lol), but I've very much warmed up to her since, since like I said, her inclusion makes a lot of sense in retrospect, though she was obviously a far cry from what most people expected for a Smash character lol

 

[Kirby Dragons]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

I've never thought the Wii Fit content was a bad addition. It's surprising, but makes sense in the end. And WFT has a unique moveset.

Yeah, I can see that. I’ve always grouped Mega Man, Zero, and Samus together since they’re all futuristic characters with arm cannons and some kind of armor but they’re definitely pretty different. Part of why it wouldn’t really bother me despite sharing similar weapons.

Here’s a question: Do you think we’ll see any currently unrepresented series get more than one character, whether they be unique or echoes? We did get Simon and Richter in Ultimate. If they can work out something for Mortal Kombat, I can see both Scorpion and Sub-Zero make it in as semiclones. I’d also love to see Astral Chain get both Officer Howard and Jenna Anderson too.

Only through echoes, otherwise I don't see it.

 

[Gorgonzales]

So what do you guys think of the Wii Fit series and it's portrayal in Smash?

Do you think it's portrayal is good? Do you feel Wii Fit should even be in the game? Do you think Wii Fit Trainer is a good choice for a character?

This is gonna be a little hard for me to explain but bear with me.

I think Wii Fit does have good representation, but if I'm being 100% honest, I would not bat an eye if Wii Fit Trainer never returned.

I couldn't care less about her inclusion, and this is coming from a guy who loves oddball picks in character rosters. I like G&W, R.O.B., Duck Hunt, and Piranha Plant, but not Wii Fit... so why is that the case when they're all considered important for Nintendo as a whole? Shouldn't they be on level playing ground? Well, I think it boils down to the type of audience Smash is for.

The retro characters come from titles aimed at and marketed toward "gamers", which Smash's fanbase is. You could grow up with a Game and Watch or get Duck Hunt + Super Mario Bros for your birthday or have owned a R.O.B. as a kid and expressed joy at seeing them join Smash, because Smash is for "gamers". People who actively play games for entertainment and enjoyment of the medium. You would play those retro titles, play Smash, and go, "hey, ROB is in this?? What?? No way!"

Wii Fit on the other hand is not targeted toward "gamers". It's target was the blue ocean market that was very popular during the Wii era. This might be a stretch, but I think most people that picked up Wii Fit picked it up to get fit, not because it's a new franchise in Nintendo's legendary line up of video game series.

This isn't inherently bad, but it does create a notable dissonance between her and the other oddball picks. The other oddballs feel like they had a fan base, an audience of people who would like to see them in Smash Bros because they grew up with their titles and they like Smash. I'm not saying you can't grow up with Wii Fit, but you'd be hard pressed to find a Facebook mom going "finally, they added the character for me to Smash Bros!" because I doubt that they'd even know Smash Bros. exists beyond glancing at it on a Walmart shelf and seeing Mario on the cover.

----

Also there's a dissonance between the general "game feel" between the retro characters and WFT.

Even though G&W, R.O.B., and Duck Hunt are old, they are still video game characters and embody a lot of the uniqueness of video games from their home titles; their games have action and fantastical elements that make them feel like true video game classics, much like the games of the everlasting characters like Mario, Link, or Kirby.

Wii Fit Trainer is just a person. Which there's nothing wrong with, Mario's an everyman and Little Mac's a scrappy boxer from the Bronx, but Wii Fit never goes beyond being an avatar for a fitness title. Her attacks are all yoga poses and exercise moves, which can work... except she has no body-breaking in a game where most characters without a weapon have their limbs grow in size for attacks to give them extra oomph and make em feel real video gamey. She feels awkward and stubby and not super fun to play, for me at least.

Am I making sense? I hope you can see what I'm getting to even though it's kind of hard to articulate.

---

I think Wii Fit is perfectly suited for a stage like Wii Fit Studio. A character? Not as much. To me WFT made perfect sense for Smash 4, but beyond Ultimate I really don't think she should be prioritized over anyone else to return.

 

[Opossum]

I hate to say this but that newcomer list sucks even if everyone in Ultimate returned. WITH the cuts you made to the roster the newcomers are godawful. Also the hell is up with Pauline as Peach echo, taking Daisy back to alt status and doing t hat random ass character choice with Pauline would be confusing and infuriating to Daisy fans and just general smash fans. No one's going to be excited to play Arcade Bunny, Polar Bear, or Blinky (wtf would he even do) and Barbara the Bat is waaaaaay too obscure and unpopular as a pick with all these cuts and the general lack of OOMPH to the newcomer list.

Nah, Arcade Bunny is good. The biggest crime is cutting all Fire Emblem veterans except for Marth and then keeping Piranha Plant.

 

[Kirbeh]

Shout out to the people who don't use spoiler tags when creating long lists.

Okay, so…let’s say the next Smash had 50 veterans, 15 newcomers, and 5 Echo Fighters. That’s about 70 characters. What kind of roster would you guys be able to make with those numbers?

Spoiler

 

[jamesster445]

Here's a thought:

If the next Smash game ever has more music from the Donkey Kong Country series that isn't just JuNgLe LeVeL, which songs would you like to hear?

Personally, I'd love to hear songs like Aquatic Ambience, Fear Factory, The Credits Concerto, Jib Jig, Lockjaw's Saga, Hot Head Bop, Mining Melancholy, and many more.

Tropical Freeze... not even a song, just the whole soundtrack.

Why do you think Punch Out!! has so little content?

It's got a character and a nice stage, sure. It's even got the entire Wii cast as spirits. But it has no AT, only five music tracks and not a single new remix in Ultimate.

It just seems kind of ignored.

Do they have anything in Smash from Super Punch Out?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Nah, Arcade Bunny is good. The biggest crime is cutting all Fire Emblem veterans except for Marth and then keeping Piranha Plant.

Problem solved.

 

[Louie G.]

I gotta say it’s pretty cool to see some “grassroots” movements happening lately within the boards. I’ve been pushing for Off the Hook for some time now but especially after Marina performed well in Swamp’s poll and the frequency of the topic it seems like people are really coming around on the idea. And it’s clear to me that Dededoo’s Oatchi moveset the other day won him a lot of new fans.

Time will tell if we’re on the mark here, but I like that we’ve been able to convince one another that these ideas are worth exploring. Especially because man, it’s an uphill battle to get people excited about newer Nintendo characters like that. Just very pleased with the tides turning, and that these are being treated more as genuinely great ideas in their own right and less so obligatory and simply tolerated “recency” pulls as contemporary picks often are.

 

[Kirbeh]

I gotta say it’s pretty cool to see some “grassroots” movements happening lately within the boards. I’ve been pushing for Off the Hook for some time now but especially after Marina performed well in Swamp’s poll and the frequency of the topic it seems like people are really coming around on the idea. And it’s clear to me that Dededoo’s Oatchi moveset the other day won him a lot of new fans.

Time will tell if we’re on the mark here, but I like that we’ve been able to convince one another that these ideas are worth exploring. Especially because man, it’s an uphill battle to get people excited about newer Nintendo characters like that. Just very pleased with the tides turning, and that these are being treated more as genuinely great ideas in their own right and less so obligatory “recency” pulls.

Honestly, regarding Splatoon at least, I feel like people default to the Octoling just for the sake of being an easy echo.

The thing about the Octoling though is that they could just as easily be completely unique or even merged into the Inkling as a set of costumes. (The latter being my personal preference.)

If we get another Splatoon character (or characters) I want, you know, an actual character.

Splatoon fans love the 3 idol groups but I think there's a gap in the overlap between Smash and Splatoon players so you mostly just see "Oh, easy, add Octoling" when it comes to Smash speculation.

I'd prefer one or multiple of the idols but I'd be accepting of Octavio and even ecstatic for Captain Cuttlefish.

Not quite the same, but similarly for Pikmin, I've lost count how many times it gets dismissed in favor of adding all the captains as costumes and calling it a day. Though there are a few users here to champion unique or at least semi clone captains.

As for Oatchi, I've yet to play Pikmin 4 myself but Pikmin fans seem to like him quite a bit and it's the first instance of a major player character outside of the captains so I think he might actually be an easier sell to Smash players if they're presented with someone who isn't "Oh no, not another Olimar."

And he's a good boy. Very easy sell there.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I gotta say it’s pretty cool to see some “grassroots” movements happening lately within the boards. I’ve been pushing for Off the Hook for some time now but especially after Marina performed well in Swamp’s poll and the frequency of the topic it seems like people are really coming around on the idea. And it’s clear to me that Dededoo’s Oatchi moveset the other day won him a lot of new fans.

Time will tell if we’re on the mark here, but I like that we’ve been able to convince one another that these ideas are worth exploring. Especially because man, it’s an uphill battle to get people excited about newer Nintendo characters like that. Just very pleased with the tides turning, and that these are being treated more as genuinely great ideas in their own right and less so obligatory and simply tolerated “recency” pulls as contemporary picks often are.

I made the poll because I wanted to prove the idea that no one wants Nintendo newcomers is false.

 

[Kirby Dragons]

I don't want Smash to ever completely move away from first-party characters. We have a handful of highly popular ones, but even aside from them, there are other interesting inclusions that can be added, if we dig deeper. They might not be as marketable, but that's why I think they should be added alongside third-parties and popular first-parties, as opposed to adding several of them at once.

 

[SPEN18]

I gotta say it’s pretty cool to see some “grassroots” movements happening lately within the boards. I’ve been pushing for Off the Hook for some time now but especially after Marina performed well in Swamp’s poll and the frequency of the topic it seems like people are really coming around on the idea. And it’s clear to me that Dededoo’s Oatchi moveset the other day won him a lot of new fans.

Time will tell if we’re on the mark here, but I like that we’ve been able to convince one another that these ideas are worth exploring. Especially because man, it’s an uphill battle to get people excited about newer Nintendo characters like that. Just very pleased with the tides turning, and that these are being treated more as genuinely great ideas in their own right and less so obligatory “recency” pulls.

I'm sure the success of the Switch has played a huge role in that. Pikmin and Splatoon in particular really thrived and reached new heights on the Switch, and so far have only gotten one CSS box apiece (sorry Alph), making counterarguments against them pretty tough to craft. Though in the past we have seen arguments trying to spin these two as series that are somehow perfectly represented by one character, with no new gameplay hooks to offer from multiple non-clone characters; those have clearly been proven inaccurate, and it has been good to see them apparently dissipate to some extent.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The Wii Fit Trainer is funny, but compared to other WTF characters I feel like she stretches the joke a little too thin? (pun intended)
"A yoga pose is given hitboxes" is the idea behind most of her attacks. It's funny but compare that to what's going on with characters like Villager or Piranha Plant and it's actually less imaginative in a way. Plus she didn't even need to be a videogame character to have that moveset, if you get what I'm saying.
Finally, Wii Fit being what it is means that music and stage were always going to be lame. The final smash too is kinda sad.
And since she wasn't treated as a surprise character but she actually was one of the first reveals, I feel like they might have actually included her to attract the grandma crowd to Smash? Which obviously didn't work out, and the Miis were already there for that anyways.

In conclusion, it sounds like I'm hating on her but I actually think that she's funny and I like picking her out from time to time, which is probably all that's needed... But I also feel like she doesn't really add much to the game.
A less "forced" character (so most other possible choices) probably would have worked out better in the long run (pun intended).

This is also why I'm kinda opposed to the Ring Fit Trainer, she would probably be an improvement on most of these aspects but you'll never shake off the feeling that they already made that joke...

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Wii Fit Trainer I think kind of falls flat when it comes to executing what makes them fun and unique. They're fitness instructors, but it's mostly communicated with fluff dialogue. They're supposed to be fighting you with the power of yoga, but they don't actually weaponize it when it comes to their animations. In fact, looking at MockRock's animation rankings they are consistently one of the worst animated characters when it comes to selling their attacks due to not pushing it far enough, and a lot of the time just not working very well conceptually. They have great zoning projectiles that give them a similarly great offstage game, but their showstopping ability wants you to play rushdown. Their main mechanic is that most of their attacks hit on multiple sides of them, but they placed these hitboxes in such a way where actually hitting things is incredibly difficult. This character has swordie hitbox placement despite having 0 normal attacks that are disjointed. Why on earth did they do that?

Combine all these factors and it's pretty easy to see why this character is a huge miss in terms of appeal. If, and because I love Smash characters I kinda hope, when they come back, I would like their moveset to get another pass. Make something that feels more cohesive to play, and for the love of fun give them a forward aerial that hits in front of them (I mean I know technically it does, but...no it doesn't). For the animations, make sure all their attacks look like they're actually striking, and putting an appropriate amount of power into their strikes. Give them smears that use the aesthetic of their games UI, or even better, give them guide arrow smears. That would be super fun, and allow them to at least use some animation techniques that the other fighters have access to.