Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Wonder Smash]

It may be just me but does Little Mac look like he could pass off as both a Super Mario and a River City character?

I'd love to have Kunio and Riki on my Little Mac team in my regular Smash matches.

 

[kirbstr]

After the highly received reception to the Sans Mii Costume and Megalovania, I'd be amazed if Undertale didn't get more in the next Smash Bros.

Eh, I wouldn't. Same reason I don't expect Cuphead to have that much more in the next smash game either. Undertale was definitely a world wide cultural phenom on the internet, but its time has came and went. I could see it getting a few more music tracks, especially with Toby Fox's increased involvement with the Pokemon soundtrack, but that's about it

 

[Momotsuki]

I imagine the Sans Mii outfit returns, as does the MEGALOVANIA remix and maybe some more Undertale tracks - a stage seems quite plausible, actually. Not just plausible, but potentially very interesting!

Highly doubt we get a fighter, though. (But that could also be neat!)

Spoiler: Undertale spoilers that everyone already knows

Sans as a fighter feels a bit weird since for him to not be completely inept he'd need to actually be trying, and it takes such an insane amount to push him to where he'll actually try to stop somebody.

It's not just "they're not a fighter in their home series" like, say, Villager, but rather that Sans trying to actually fight is treated with a very, very heavy atmosphere that Smash can't replicate.

It'd feel weird to have him doing his thing against Mario or an Inkling. It would feel "wrong" in a way that's more than just a passive "he doesn't usually fight" but moreso an active "he's explicitly not supposed to do this casually."

The Mii outfit can get away with this more because, well, it's a costume.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I imagine the Sans Mii outfit returns, as does the MEGALOVANIA remix and maybe some more Undertale tracks - a stage seems quite plausible, actually. Not just plausible, but potentially very interesting!

Highly doubt we get a fighter, though. (But that could also be neat!)

We never got a stage for a third party franchise that had no playable character. I guess there's a first to everything, but Undertale doesn't strike me as something they would really go out of their way to give a stage with no characters when the characters are that popular.

 

[Louie G.]

Eh, I wouldn't. Same reason I don't expect Cuphead to have that much more in the next smash game either. Undertale was definitely a world wide cultural phenom on the internet, but its time has came and went. I could see it getting a few more music tracks, especially with Toby Fox's increased involvement with the Pokemon soundtrack, but that's about it

I really greatly disagree about Undertale's time coming and going. It's still about as popular or more than any major title that released nine years ago. It received a full blown orchestral celebration of its five year anniversary, a sequel(ish) currently in production, characters and music that still persist in the zeitgeist. It's tremendously popular in Japan to the degree of Deltarune being translated parallel to development to come out on the same date. It's a titan of the previous decade of narrative games on a worldwide scale, and its impact is still felt today.

Cuphead, similarly, is such a tremendous achievement of the craft that it will not be soon forgotten. Recipient of a Netflix cartoon, strong merchandising, a successful DLC update within the last couple years. I'm uncertain how great Cuphead's reach overseas is, but it's not a game that should be regarded as a passing trend. There certainly are big games that fizzle out of the conversation after a few years, but these two are not among them. That's withstanding my own opinion on how likely additional content for these two may be (I think Undertale is fairly likely, myself), I just think suggesting they "came and went" is reductive and false.

A bit independent from the post I'm quoting, but I feel like indie games are put under a certain amount of unfair scrutiny for how long their shelf life is expected to be. If you were as much of a blowout success as Undertale or Cuphead and people are still talking about you today, that's about as good as any notable AAA game still in the conversation has it. Doesn't matter whether it was a big studio or a small one, they're sitting with the big kids.

 

[Noipoi]

Every time a new Deltarune chapter comes out it takes over the internet, and everyone is spouting the secret crazy funnyman boss's catchphrases for a few months.

Deltarune's, and by extension Undertale's moment has certainly not passed.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Undertale is nearly 10 years old. We're still talking about it, but some people call it a fad.

Man it really is the new Minecraft, isn't it?

 

[TheQuester]

What if we get a Portal 2 rep? The game is on the switch and it's iconic.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Undertale is nearly 10 years old. We're still talking about it, but some people call it a fad.

Man it really is the new Minecraft, isn't it?

Well now I don't want it to have a fighter. >:V

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Undertale is nearly 10 years old. We're still talking about it, but some people call it a fad.

Man it really is the new Minecraft, isn't it?

We’re not gonna start seeing realistic Frisk are we

 

[The SafeKeeper]

Well now I don't want it to have a fighter. >:V

Yeah, the phrase 'it's the new Minecraft' must have triggered something in my brain and now the idea is a huge turnoff for me. You guys see the ****storm that Steve has caused? Let's not have that again please.

But instead of arguing over newcomers, why don't we do something everyone will agree with and just remove Sonic from the roster permanently instead?

 

[dream1ng]

Man it really is the new Minecraft, isn't it?

In that people call it a fad but it's not, yeah I suppose. I mean people called FNaF a fad too, and that thing is getting movies now. But I feel like if any of them are the new Minecraft, it's Stardew Valley. That thing is at like 30 mil and going strong.

Undertale is popular, and successful, but... it's no Minecraft. A lot of indie games often have long shelf life because of how ubiquitous they are platform-wise and how sequels are generally less frequent.

Cave Story isn't talked about as much these days, but it was "big" in the indie game sphere for... over ten years, at least. Hotline Miami is still invoked and regarded as a big indie game, still has its influence across many games.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Yeah, the quote 'it's the new Minecraft' must have triggered something in my brain and now the idea is a huge turnoff for me. You guys see the ****storm that Steve has caused caused? Let's not have that again please.

But instead of arguing over newcomers, why don't we do something everyone will agree with and just remove Sonic from the roster instead.

No.

 

[TheQuester]

Well...in terms of Smash, Undertale is probably the most indie likely one to get a rep...

 

[RileyXY1]

In that people call it a fad but it's not, yeah I suppose. I mean people called FNaF a fad too, and that thing is getting movies now. But I feel like if any of them are the new Minecraft, it's Stardew Valley. That thing is at like 30 mil and going strong.

Undertale is popular, and successful, but... it's no Minecraft. A lot of indie games often have long shelf life because of how ubiquitous they are platform-wise and how sequels are generally less frequent.

Cave Story isn't talked about as much these days, but it was "big" in the indie game sphere for... over ten years, at least. Hotline Miami is still invoked and regarded as a big indie game, still has its influence across many games.

Minecraft is literally the best selling game of all time and it's not really an indie game anymore.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

497926"]

View attachment 387802

I assure you, I never cared for Steve. Never played Minecraft, never will. I'm more of a Terraria guy.

No.

Come on. Please? I'll be your friend.

Well...in terms of Smash, Undertale is probably the most indie likely one to get a rep...

Likely? Sure, I guess. Most likely? Eh, I don't know. If any Indie character is being added to the roster, I'm pretty sure it'd be this guy first given that the developers made sure to show him off pretty early on during the build up to Ultimate's release:

 

[RodNutTakin]

If you ask me, Undertale will have an Assist and nothing more for the time being, maybe a Deltarune costume down the line.
The only character I can see getting added is Kris, and knowing Toby, he's not going to want to have that happen until Deltarune as a complete experience has gone gold development-wise (even if that's probably going to take a long time.)

 

[dream1ng]

Well...in terms of Smash, Undertale is probably the most indie likely one to get a rep...

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Not because Undertale is the most popular indie game out there though. It's not.

It's because it has strong balanced popularity across regions, actual popularity/demand within the fanbase, and I imagine the reception to the Mii costume was extremely positive, commercially and reaction-wise.

Minecraft is literally the best selling game of all time and it's not really an indie game anymore.

That only further weakens the comparison then imo if you're going to open the gates up to all games that were called fads but ended up sticking around.

View attachment 387802



No.

Yeah man I didn't like Steve in Ultimate and Bayo in 4 before it was cool

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

497926"]


I assure you, I never cared for Steve. Never played Minecraft, never will. I'm more of a Terraria guy.


Come on. Please? I'll be your friend.

One of my most wanted is Shadow. So that presents a conflict of interest.

 

[dream1ng]

Likely? Sure, I guess. Most likely? Eh, I don't know. If any Indie character is being added to the roster, I'm pretty sure it'd be this guy first given that the developers made sure to show him off pretty early on during the build up to Ultimate's release:

Well he was shown off in the middle, wasn't he. He was in the August Direct.

Shovel Knight has a decent chance, but the reason he was AT'd was, in all likelihood, because of his very strong ballot performance. Since then he's still quite a prominent indie character, and he still has a chance, but the fervor isn't quite what it was c. 2015-2016.

Not that Undertale is at its peak either, but I still think a character like Sans has more overall in their favor, at the moment.

We'll see what happens if and when we get Shovel Knight 2. I have to imagine that game will arrive eventually.

 

[CannonStreak]

I wouldn't disagree with that.

Not because Undertale is the most popular indie game out there though. It's not.

Our of curiosity, what IS the most popular indie game out there?

 

[Gorgonzales]

Every time a new Deltarune chapter comes out it takes over the internet, and everyone is spouting the secret crazy funnyman boss's catchphrases for a few months.

Deltarune's, and by extension Undertale's moment has certainly not passed.

This. There was a period after Chapter 2's release where I literally could not go a day without coming across a Queen post, someone talking like Spamton, or a "KRIS WHERE ARE WE" meme.

Undertale is more or less an "ongoing series" with Deltarune being developed, and with it comes all of U/D's fans discussing the games and characters. Even if Deltarune didn't exist, Undertale's success was so astronomically massive that it'd still permeate the zeitgeist of internet discussion to this day. I'm not even a big Undertale fan, but to say "its time has came and went" is blatantly untrue and would get you jumped by a horde of annoying dogs.

 

[dream1ng]

Our of curiosity, what IS the most popular indie game out there?

Probably Roblox.

Not counting that, probably Stardew Valley, Terraria or Among Us. Especially since Epic has now eaten Rocket League and Fall Guys.

And though I wouldn't say they're the biggest, FNaF and Cuphead moving into movie/tv also increases their profile a lot.

Could be forgetting something obvious, though.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

Well he was shown off in the middle, wasn't he. He was in the August Direct.

Shovel Knight has a decent chance, but the reason he was AT'd was, in all likelihood, because of his very strong ballot performance. Since then he's still quite a prominent indie character, and he still has a chance, but the fervor isn't quite what it was c. 2015-2016.

Eh, if Banjo fans can maintain their vigor for the twenty years before he was added, as well as fans of really bizarre choices like Geno, I'm pretty sure Shovel Knight fans are capable of doing the same. There's a reason why he's been a playable character in Indie Pogo, Blade Strangers, Cook, Serve, Delicious: Battle Kitchen, Move or Die, Dino-Run DX, Runner3, Riverbond, Rivals of Aether, Blaster Master Zero, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Road Redemption, Epic Manager, C-Wars, Starr Mazer, Runbow, All-Stars Dungeons and Diamonds, Ghost Police, Mutant Mudds Super Challenge, Pixel Noir, and Mighty Quest. Developers of all sorts of game genres seem to agree that he's a good selling point.

One of my most wanted is Shadow. So that presents a conflict of interest.

As long as you mean as a unique character and not as an Echo. If you guys convince Sakurai to add a second character with a spin dash, I won't be held responsible for my actions.

 

[Ivander]

I only played a bit of Minecraft once and I think it was to help somebody with platforming or something. Otherwise, I never played Minecraft. I never had any animosity for Minecraft and have seen people online play it, but obviously, I didn't care much for Steve. Steve was a character who I needed to see in action before being sold on him. And while he's a character I don't play alot I'm the kind of person who constantly chooses characters without repeating characters recently and I sometimes find fun with him.

Basically, as someone who is pretty accepting of any character getting in, any issue I have with a character pick is mainly a "I need to see and play them in action before being 100% sold on the character." The only character where I had more than one issue with is Jonesy from Fortnite.
Besides needing to see them in action, one issue I had is that I don't like Fortnite's style and Jonesy's default look and it's a style I don't exactly want Jonesy to keep if he came to Smash Bros. The other was that I felt it was too soon for Fortnite to get into Smash Bros, which feels hypocritical when I was fine with Corrin and Byleth, but I was probably fine with them because they were Nintendo reps, so obviously Nintendo will have a couple advertised picks. Whereas Fortnite was 3rd Party, in a game with not alot of 3rd Parties and a lot of 3rd Party requests still not yet in Smash Bros.

By next Smash, that "Too Soon" issue will have passed and I'll be a bit more open to Fortnite/Jonesy, but I still need to see him in action and what his art style is beforehand.

 

[dream1ng]

Eh, if Banjo fans can maintain their vigor for the twenty years before he was added, as well as fans of really bizarre choices like Geno, I'm pretty sure Shovel Knight fans are capable of doing the same.

Right, but... they haven't. Shovel Knight is nowhere near as requested as he was during the ballot era. I'm not saying he can't get popular again, Banjo and Geno didn't stay the same level of popularity the whole time, but right now he's a far cry from where he was some years ago, fanbase demand-wise.

And some of that was due to getting AT'd. That really broke the momentum for almost every character in that situation. That was how Shantae managed to run away with popularity that used to be much more split between the two. Getting a costume (the lack of which genuinely surprised me) would've helped.

But some is also due to where the series and fanbase are nowadays. We'll see what the future holds for the IP.

There's a reason why he's been a playable character in Indie Pogo, Blade Strangers, Cook, Serve, Delicious: Battle Kitchen, Move or Die, Dino-Run DX, Runner3, Riverbond, Rivals of Aether, Blaster Master Zero, Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, Road Redemption, Epic Manager, C-Wars, Starr Mazer, Runbow, All-Stars Dungeons and Diamonds, Ghost Police, Mutant Mudds Super Challenge, Pixel Noir, and Mighty Quest. Developers of all sorts of game genres seem to agree that he's a good selling point.

And that reason is general popularity, not Smash popularity.

Shovel Knight is a generally popular indie game character. But characters like Meat Boy and Jacket show up in a lot of indie games as well; that doesn't mean it correlates to Smash popularity. In the cases of those two, it never really has.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

The other was that I felt it was too soon for Fortnite to get into Smash Bros,

God, I really hope they don't ever add Fortnite to Smash. A reveal like that would split the fanbase in two and would be ludicrously toxic on both sides.

 

[dream1ng]

God, I really hope they don't ever add Fortnite to Smash. A reveal like that would split the fanbase in two and would be ludicrously toxic on both sides.

average fire emblem reveal

 

[Ivander]

God, I really hope they don't ever add Fortnite to Smash. A reveal like that would split the fanbase in two and would be ludicrously toxic on both sides.

You mean Steve didn't already? Cause a lot of people were legitimately ****** about Steve.

If Steve didn't split the Smash fanbase in two, Jonesy won't either.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

average fire emblem reveal

Oh, the disdain for the fifty Fire Emblem characters in Smash is nothing compared to the vitriol people on the Internet would spew if they revealed Jonesy as a character. Fortnite can't even get an Switch update trailer without receiving at least 33% dislikes on YouTube. Fortnite is simultaneously loved and reviled by so many.

 

[Noipoi]

Look I'm no Fortnite fanboy, I've never played it actually, but I feel like the hate is overblown. It looks like a fine enough game, is it really just because kids like it?

 

[Perkilator]

Look I'm no Fortnite fanboy, I've never played it actually, but I feel like the hate is overblown. It looks like a fine enough game, is it really just because kids like it?

It's popular so it's bad; that's the only reason people hate on it, I would know, because nobody would shut up about it in high school and I got upset about to the point of getting in trouble. I've gotten over it since, and nowadays I don't really care about Fortnite.

 

[The SafeKeeper]

You mean Steve didn't already? Cause a lot of people were legitimately ****** about Steve.

If Steve didn't split the Smash fanbase in two, Jonesy won't either.

Disagree. Equating the vitriol many have for Fortnite with the most popular video game of all time is laughable. Fortnite couldn't even get a simple update trailer without receiving 33% dislikes on YouTube. A large chunk of people go out of their way to dump on Fortnite for simply being on the Switch. The same can't be said for most video games. Go watch he dozens of Switch Minecraft DLC trailers and find one with a similar like to dislike ratio as this video. I bet you can't. I think you really underestimate how popular it is to openly despise Fortnite in online gaming communities.

 

[Momotsuki]

Every popular thing that I don't like is a fad, actually. Hope this helps.

 

[CannonStreak]

Disagree. Equating the vitriol many have for Fortnite with the most popular video game of all time is laughable. Fortnite couldn't even get a simple update trailer without receiving 33% dislikes on YouTube. A large chunk of people go out of their way to dump on Fortnite for simply being on the Switch. The same can't be said for most video games. I think you really underestimate how popular it is to openly despise Fortnite in online gaming communities.

First, 33% dislikes is not big enough, and that doesn't even account for everyone. Plus, 67% percent still like the game, and that is a big number. Secondly, the hate may have to do with stupid reasons or jealously of some kind, that it is hilarious instead of serious. Youtube is just one place, by the way.

 

[Wonder Smash]

I was never interested in Minecraft but I never hated the idea of Steve being in Smash either. When he was revealed, I was like "Wow! What a surprise! Well, I know the fans are happy. Good for them."

I also remember how harsh people were towards his supporters (especially on GameFAQs), as they truly believed he had no chance at getting in. Even if it's a character I'm not interested in, I don't support that kind of behavior. So when those people had a massive meltdown over his reveal (including one on this site), I couldn't help but laugh and think "Well, that's what you get."

 

[cashregister9]

Disagree. Equating the vitriol many have for Fortnite with the most popular video game of all time is laughable. Fortnite couldn't even get a simple update trailer without receiving 33% dislikes on YouTube. A large chunk of people go out of their way to dump on Fortnite for simply being on the Switch. The same can't be said for most video games. I think you really underestimate how popular it is to openly despise Fortnite in online gaming communities.

This update was also 2 years ago.

This was also around the start of poor gameplay performance on the switch

 

[Momotsuki]

Maybe I just don't hang out in the right places but from what I saw the reception to Steve - and this is before any competitive woes, mind - was largely positive. Sure, you'd have some people not like it but it wasn't more than you'd expect from any reveal. People seemed pretty excited.

It certainly didn't seem anywhere near as rough as, say, the Byleth reveal. And I say that as somebody who has no issue with Byleth.

Fortnite representation would leave a bad taste in my mouth, personally, but I fully admit that this is just a personal vibes-based thing and not indicative of the merit of its inclusion.

 

[CannonStreak]

I was never interested in Minecraft but I never hated the idea of Steve being in Smash either. When he was revealed, I was like "Wow! What a surprise Well, I know the fans are happy. Good for them."

I also remember how harsh people were towards his supporters (especially on GameFAQs), as they truly believed he had no chance at getting in. Even if it's a character I'm not interested in, I don't support that kind of behavior. So when those people had a massive meltdown over his reveal (including one on this site), I couldn't help but laugh and think "Well, that's what you get."

Agreed. Places like GameFAQs are mostly for manchildren, and being harsh does not get one anywhere like this, especially over fictional characters. I swear, some people don't really have any humanity. It's quite sad, really.

 

[dream1ng]

Oh, the disdain for the fifty Fire Emblem characters in Smash is nothing compared to the vitriol people on the Internet would spew if they revealed Jonesy as a character. Fortnite can't even get an Switch update trailer without receiving at least 33% dislikes on YouTube. Fortnite is simultaneously loved and reviled by so many.

By the time a Fortnite character will make it into Smash, that game is going to be ~10+ years old, and there are going to be even more parallels to Minecraft in Smash given the audience at that time. Like you said, Fortnite is simultaneously loved and reviled. Minecraft was in a similar situation and that duality kept the reaction mixed in its reception. A lot of negativity, but also a lot of positivity.

Over time more young Fortnite players will age into the online Smash fanbase, attrition will erode some of its "ugh stupid kids' game" stigma, and people may not desire a character from the series, but will accept it as a possibility, lessening the reflexive backlash than were it to blindside them.

Meanwhile Byleth/Corrin were predominantly negative, given... well, several factors - the existing volume of the series and the expectations going into the reveal being the big two. That means only a small subset of the fanbase was, at that point, welcoming to the prospect of more FE.

So Fortnite and Minecraft would be louder reactions... but FE, as it is now, would have more concentrated negativity.

But it is possible the disdain for FE will subside if the series experiences major cuts going into the next game, which it might depending on the extent of the character turnover and the size of the roster at the point of that reveal.