Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

What's a character concept that won you over when you watched a YouTube video of it? For me, most recently it was E.M.M.I. even though I prefer Raven Beak.

I guess what I'm saying is that after watching this video, I'm fine with either E.M.M.I. or Raven Beak.

Technically E.M.M.I. too, but because of a Rivals mod.

Which also applies to Regigigas which would only work if we could get larger fighters.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think Pokémon should just sit the next game out. It already has enough characters as is.

 

[dream1ng]

Makes me wonder what post-Brawl games would have been like if Sakurai had managed to make Diddy and Dixie into a tag-team. (Personally, I'm glad Diddy is solo.)

Me too, and probably separated in 4 like the others, and kept separate afterwards like ZSS and Sheik. I'm gonna guess Dixie was set to be a semi-clone under that paradigm, so not ideal but also it could've been worse.

I think Pokémon should just sit the next game out. It already has enough characters as is.

TPC:

 

[superprincess]

Makes me wonder what post-Brawl games would have been like if Sakurai had managed to make Diddy and Dixie into a tag-team. (Personally, I'm glad Diddy is solo.)

If Brawl had gone with the Diddy and Dixie tag team idea, they'd probably have to include solo Diddy in Smash 4 probably, and Ultimate would've brought back the tag team mechanic. Kinda like the PT to Solo Zard to PT again pipeline.

I don't think Diddy and Dixie would've been separated for good like Zelda and Sheik or Samus and ZSS were. Those were always conceptualized as unique movesets packed together in the same slot, whereas the Diddy/Dixie duo from the Brawl files seems like it'd be an Ice Climbers sort of deal.

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

I would make it so that Daisy was one of the Melee clones instead of Dr. Mario. They were practically already halfway there with the assets from Peach's second costume, they just had to tweak her bangs and face and change her non attack animations to match Daisy's personality, maybe get Jen Taylor (they shared the same VA at the time) to record a few more voice clips... change some attack properties (it's not like Melee was balanced anyway) and boom. Would also include some Super Mario Land music, which Smash Bros is currently sorely lacking. This would make it so that Daisy would get gradually decloned in future Smash games, resulting in her having Dr. Mario-level differences in Ultimate.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I think Pokémon should just sit the next game out. It already has enough characters as is.

Maybe the next game will cut 3 characters; Jigglypuff since it left the anime in the Alola saga years ago, Pichu, and Incineroar. Their replacements will be Meowscarada since Liko's first Pokemon from that line and spoilers for Horizons ||she evolved into Floragato||, Eevee since its becoming a secondary mascot next to Pikachu, and a legendary or mythical.

 

[Perkilator]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Give Melee another year of development and, if possible, get rid of Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link along with making Ganondorf more unique. Ideally, I'd also like to be able to add the following newcomers:

• Wario
• Scizor
• Ayumi as a semi-clone of Peach and Zelda

Another year of Melee is the main thing, but some other changes I'd make (within reason):

• Switch the roles of Meowth and Jigglypuff; Meowth is part of the OG 12 while Jigglypuff is a Poké Ball summon
• Contract Traveler's Tales to help develop Subspace Emissary, and maybe even appoint them as co-developers of Sm4sh and Ultimate
• Change WoL to a roguelike campaign
• Don't really bother adding a "Board the Platforms" mode to 64
• Make Banjo & Kazooie Fighter #70 instead of Piranha Plant

Honorable mentions:

• Have Rayman be a DLC character in Sm4sh
• Take the 3rd party companies that have playable characters in Ultimate and try to represent more of their franchises through non-playable means like music and Spirits
• In Ultimate, add an option to freely play any song on any stage

 

[Noipoi]

I think Pokémon should just sit the next game out. It already has enough characters as is.

You think they’re keeping all of them? Please…

Pichu and maybe Incineroar are out, leaving enough room for a fresh face.

Probably Krakap’n, the Gen 10 water starter (it’s a squid that’s also a pirate)

 

[dream1ng]

Maybe the next game will cut 3 characters; Jigglypuff since it left the anime in the Alola saga years ago, Pichu, and Incineroar. Their replacements will be Meowscarada since Liko's first Pokemon from that line and spoilers for Horizons ||she evolved into Floragato||, Eevee since its becoming a secondary mascot next to Pikachu, and a legendary or mythical.

If Pokemon gets three newcomers there will barely be enough room for FE to get five

Use your head

 

[Guynamednelson]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Without going there...a unique Dark Samus in ZSS's place, assuming having to change the end of Samus's FS to accommodate doesn't mean this counts as two things. Nothing against ZSS, this would just be to ensure DS could have a unique moveset.

 

[Noipoi]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Meowth was added in 64 as opposed to Jigglypuff

 

[Swamp Sensei]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change?

Aw man... These kind of hypotheticals always anno-

I would make it so that Daisy was one of the Melee clones instead of Dr. Mario. They were practically already halfway there with the assets from Peach's second costume, they just had to tweak her bangs and face and change her non attack animations to match Daisy's personality, maybe get Jen Taylor (they shared the same VA at the time) to record a few more voice clips... change some attack properties (it's not like Melee was balanced anyway) and boom. Would also include some Super Mario Land music, which Smash Bros is currently sorely lacking. This would make it so that Daisy would get gradually decloned in future Smash games, resulting in her having Dr. Mario-level differences in Ultimate.

This isn't too bad honestly.

I'd miss Doc because I prefer his moveset to Peach but... this honestly isn't too bad.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

I honestly wish Wario had been included in Melee. Him being formulated before the creation of the WarioWare series would have been a very different beast and it's interesting to imagine the more hybrid character he'd be now via that early 2000's conception and the WarioWare/character adjustments he would have gotten later.

 

[dream1ng]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

I guess Bomberman in Brawl when he was at his most popular and expected because his chances have been fairly iffy since.

Also back then getting any third-party would be a huge deal, now Bomberman feels like he'd be more just "oh, that's cool".

It also couldn't have hurt the series itself.

 

[Laniv]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Just one thing? One thing?

I would change Peach's neutral special to pretty much anything else so that Toad isn't stuck there and could then at least be seen as more likely for future Smash games

 

[ninjahmos]

I still think a Flying Battery Zone stage would be pretty cool. In fact, it could be a side-scrolling stage.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

Honestly?
Meowth over Jigglypuff in 64

 

[Golden Icarus]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

I can think of a lot of individual character swaps. Meowth over Jigglypuff, Impa over Sheik, Masked Man over Lucas, Azura over Corrin, etc.

But a more subtle change that comes to my mind is either reserving a unique space for Ganondorf in Melee, or just waiting to add him to Brawl. I find it rather unfortunate that to this day we are still taking small steps to “de-clone” him from Captain Falcon. It is absolutely bizarre that Nintendo’s second most iconic villain has been copying the moves of an obscure character from a racing game for the past twenty years. I still hold out hope that they’ll just totally revamp him someday, but then that still involves alienating an entire playerbase that actually likes his current playstyle. It would have been so much simpler if he was just unique right from the get-go.

Edit: Also how the hell is it okay that Ganondorf has the same victory theme as Link and Zelda? Bowser, Ridley, K. Rool, Sephiroth, even Dark Pit and Meta Knight have more villainous themes to match them. Ganon really do be consistently getting the short end of the stick in Smash.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change?

I would have most, if not all of the cut last minute characters from Brawl added to the final game.

Toon Zelda, Toon "Sheik" (if not Tetra) and Dixie Kong at the very least, since most the others all returned eventually in Smash 4. Prai_Mai too if the Plusle and Minun theory has any credence after all.

 

[Noipoi]

Meowth was added in 64 as opposed to Jigglypuff

And just don’t add Corrin

 

[Perkilator]

And just don’t add Corrin

Yeah, add Azura instead! (half-joking, mostly serious)

 

[DarthEnderX]

One of the next starters need to be /dragon type because we need a dragon in Smash

GAR!

CHOMP!

Are there any other Namco reps you guys would like to see in Smash?

Nightmare. With a possible Siegfried Echo.

Except its typing isn't Fire/Dragon

Except during his FS in 4.

I think Pokémon should just sit the next game out. It already has enough characters as is.

More space for Hayabusa.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

This is Jigglypuff slander and I will not tolerate it.

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Pokemon Trainer would never have happened. It would have been solo Charizard right from the start.

I actually have an entire list of these:

Spoiler: Time Travel Changes

I go back in time to when Melee was being made:
I stop Dr. Mario, Pichu, Young Link, Roy, Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and Sheik from being playable characters.
I make it so Ganondorf and Falco have completely unique, non-cloned movesets.

I travel forward in time to when Brawl was being made:
I stop R.O.B, Zero Suit Samus and Pokemon Trainer from being playable characters and add Charizard instead.
I make it so Lucas, Wolf and Toon Link have completely unique, non-clone movesets.
I replace Galleom, Duon and Tabuu as bosses with Metal Gear REX, Mother Brain and Medusa.
I make R.O.B., Ice Climbers and Game & Watch assist trophies.

I travel forward in time to when Smash 4 was being made:
I stop Wii Fit Trainer, Duck Hunt, Lucina and Dark Pit from being playable characters.
I make Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt assist trophies.
I replace Master Core as a boss with Andross(N64).

I travel forward in time to when Ultimate was being made:
I stop Piranha Plant, Chrom and Incineroar from being playable characters and add Decidueye instead.
I make Isabelle have a completely unique, non-clone moveset.
I make Piranha Plant, King Hippo and Eggplant Wizard assist trophies.
I add Dr. Mario, Sheik and Zero Suit Samus as alt costumes.
I add Pichu, Lucina, Dark Pit, Dark Shadow, Bass and Shadow as echo fighters.
I replace Galeem and Dharkon as bosses with Safer Sephiroth and Giygas and make sure all of Brawl's bosses return.

At this point, I have removed a grand total of 12 unique movesets from the game. And added a total of 7 unique movesets back into the game. So with my last 5 surplus movesets, I just add 5 characters from my wishlist: Ryu Hayabusa, Bill Rizer/Lance Bean, Arthur, Kunio/Riki, SV-001 Metal Slug.

 

[ninjahmos]

NGL Giygas would be a pretty cool (albeit disturbing) boss for Smash.

 

[PeridotGX]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

Small Change - I'd probably swap one of the Melee clones out for someone else. Probably Doctor Mario for Birdo (), Pichu for Togepi/Blissey (), or Ganondorf for Paula ()

Medium Change - Cut Corrin and replace them with K.Rool, so we can get another ballot character in Ultimate. Or, if I can be fully biased, obliterate Incineroar and add Decidueye. I'm still not over it.


Big Change - Nintendo delays the GameCube for about 8 months (to add a DVD drive) - and, as a result, Melee gets a somewhat reasonable amount of dev time. I'll let you decide what happens in this scenario.

 

[ninjahmos]

You know who are two other Western reps that may be unlikely but would still be pretty cool?

Scorpion & Sub-Zero from Mortal Kombat.

 

[Stratos]

From video game characters in Super Smash Bros. series we have as fighters humans, monsters, animals, aliens, robots, plant (Piranha Plant), angels, goddess (Palutena), magical creatures and different creatures (like Pacman ect.).

The types of video game characters we are missing in the Super Smash Bros. series are living objects, living foods, mutants, undeads and demons.

 

[ninjahmos]

If Kiryu ever gets into Smash, I'm hoping we get new remixes of Funk Goes On, Pray Me, For Whose Sake, Baka Mitai, Machine Gun Kiss, etc.

Also, they should use his designs from Yakuza 1-6 and Yakuza 0.

From video game characters in Super Smash Bros. series we have as fighters humans, monsters, animals, aliens, robots, plant (Piranha Plant), angels, goddess (Palutena), magical creatures and different creatures (like Pacman ect.).

The types of video game characters we are missing in the Super Smash Bros. series are living objects, living foods, mutants, undeads and demons.

I do think some more dark energy characters would be interesting.

 

[Stratos]

I just added Freddy Fazbear from Five Nights at Freddy's series to my big list of who I want as newcomers to the Super Smash Bros. series, but I can't figure out how he would work there. But also let me be honest, the truth is that I don't really care about each character's moves and generally any video game character that comes as a newcomer to the Super Smash Bros. series is fine with me whether they are on my list or not.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

My change would be... Inkling as Smash 4 DLC instead of Corrin. They would have been way better received, and freed up a slot for Dixie in Ultimate

 

[smashkirby]

How about a little change of topic?

Are there any other Namco reps you guys would like to see in Smash?

Reiji and Xiaomu
Taizo Hori
Tobi Masuyo
Mr. Driller (Susumu Hori)
Valkyrie
Bravoman
Wonder Momo
Tarosuke
Taira no Kagekiyo
Pino and Acha
Namuko (Namco Heroine)
Hiromi Tengenji
Mappy
Reiko Nagase/Ai Fukami
Leila
Metro-Cross Runner
The Prince
Klonoa
Wagan
Gil
Ki
KOS-MOS
Waya-Hime
Red Baron and Blue Max
Richard Miller
Dr. Don and Dr. Dan
Albatross
Taki
Mitsurugi
Clovis
Rick Taylor
Wagan
Valkyrie
Nightmare

I think they should add Gilgamesh, Taira no Kagekiyo, Mappy, Valkyrie, Bravoman, Sharon E'Halles, Taizo Hori, Toby Masuyo, the Red Baron, Rick Taylor, Albatross and Leila, Tarosuke, Dweeb, the Composite Steel Gunner Robot (TM), Wonder Momo, Alice, Hiromi Tengenji and-yeah I just want a Namco Museum fighting game

Funny you say this...

How would you react if we got a second Wii Fit character?

What would they even be?

Do they count as a second Wii Fit rep? Alright, I kid.

But still... a little surprised no one from this game got a Spirit in Ultimate, if I'm being honest.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My change would be... Inkling as Smash 4 DLC instead of Corrin. They would have been way better received, and freed up a slot for Dixie in Ultimate

Not really. Dixie not getting in isn't because of another character suddenly gone. We don't know why she has yet to be in, as a semi-clone, Echo, or something else.

Inkling also would've never worked on the 3DS. S/he's too mechanically intensive. It would've been a much more shallow moveset compared to what we got. Not that they'd be a bad choice or anything like that at the time. Just not feasible. This is probably why, despite being an easy choice, was only a Costume to begin with. Someone like K. Rool could've been way more feasible in comparison. Or even Isabelle as a semi-clone of Villager(albeit, a newcomer not being reasonably unique probably wouldn't have been the best way to go about DLC, hence choosing all the newcomers who aren't some kind of clone. Sure, they may have used a base, but they're about as clone-y as Ness is to Mario. That is, not at all).

---------------

As for my change? Honestly, this is difficult. I really like all the characters overall.

That said, I do agree with Peach not using Toad, but otherwise, uh... I guess I can't really think of any I want to change otherwise. I'm quite happy with Hero(despite wanting Slime more), and even another character I wasn't interested in instantly meshed with me(Palutena). Like, the only one I raised an eyebrow on originally was Wii Fit Trainer, but I definitely wouldn't replace them either. Closest I guess is I'd love Shy Guy to be in instead of PP, if only for another Yoshi rep too, but regardless of the Universe, I love the little guy. Still, I love PP too, so I'd rather a newcomer.

I admit I would like to see Young Link reference MM more, but not to the degree of completely changing how he works. That would ruin his playstyle, and I don't want that. I do wonder, related, how Peach could be fixed up enough to remove Toad but not change that much. Just use Toadsworth now, I guess? That doesn't work during Melee, though. Then again, it's unclear if it's a generic Toad or the main Toad. So that doesn't help much. XD

 

[Curious Villager]

I think people wouldn't be quite so receptive to the idea of more Pokémon reps if the developers were just a little more creative in who they chose. We all know that when the next Smash game eventually comes out, the new Pokémon rep is either going to be a starter or one of the five mons the fanbase latches onto each generation (think Lucario for Gen 4 etc).

If they dug deep into their library of 1000+ Pokémon and gave us something truly random, maybe Smash fans wouldn't roll their eyes quite so much.

I mean, I kinda agree with this sentiment as well as understand why some folks are a bit tired of seeing the same types of Pokemon frequently picked up for Smash.

You see Smash fans always praising Pokemon for having "a pool of a 1000+potential unique candidates to pick from", over things like Fire Emblem being "limited to the main Sword guy's" and whatnot. But Smash itself has yet to really show that outside of the box thinking and often going for the safest or easiest to develop choices possible. I think the most unorthodox Pokemon character we have had yet is still Pokemon Trainer all the way back in Brawl.

After that its mainly been Pokemon characters that seem to have surprisingly simplistic and predictable movesets, Lucario with a general fighting style with a comeback mechanic that's pretty much been copied by lots of other characters since, even becoming a general smash thing with the rage mechanic, Greninja with a general ninja moveset and Incineroar with a general wrestling moveset. They could stand to think a little more outside the box for the next character to really freshen things up.

I'm not saying put in stuff like Weedle into the game, but go for something a little more different than yet another starter Pokemon with a simple to make Fighting game character moveset to slap on. I don't know much about ScarVio but maybe put in the Bike lizards instead, with the other being an echo fighter. We haven't had a legendary since Mewtwo, and not even a Box legendary at that (and no, I don't count Charizard and Pikachu for being on a Pokemon box before) and they seem to be able to do some brand new things for the game while also not being as predictable as yet another starter Pokemon.

But that's just me...

 

[Mamboo07]

if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change?

If I had to change one or two things about each past game:
64

• Meowth over Jigglypuff
• If more time was possible, having Dedede, Marth, and Bowser as fighters.

Melee

• Wario as a newcomer if there was more development time
• For stages, Bowser's castle as a new one (how we haven't GOT ONE is surprising)

Brawl

• King K. Rool as a newcomer since I feel like he fits the gritty style Brawl went with
• Geno as a newcomer since he's been long requested

Wii U/3Ds

• Azura over Corrin
• Smash Run on somehow both Wii U/3Ds

 

[ShadicMCGS]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

That's so tough, because I feel like I have a whole list for that. But if it had to be one, it would add a Melee-style Adventure Mode for most future Smash games (except Brawl with the Subspace Emissary). Yes, it's not a character/stage/item, but if people have been demanding for an Adventure Mode since Sakurai denounced it in Smash 4, then at least Melee-style should've remained.

 

[fogbadge]

This is a fun hypothetical. So here's a question I just thought of; if there was one thing you could change about a past Smash game that would then carry over to all future Smash games, what would you change? Preferably character/stage/item related because those are easiest to envision.

well for a start i'd have added in toad years ago. I'd have Kept Rex with Pyra. and I'd have kept out some of the bad characters, Mewtwo, Bayo etc

oh and Toadette. I’d add in toadette

 

[Garteam]

I think EMMI has the potential to be an absolutely terrifying assist trophy. Make it very rare, but absurdly powerful, fast, and precise. Lucky players might be able to get around it occassionally, but it should still be a pants-****tingly scary moment. It should instill the same fear that the player experiences encountering a roaming, unkillable boss like EMMI in a single-player experience.

Nemesis or Mr. X could also work for this if we got a Resident Evil character, but Wesker is probably the best assist trophy from that series.

 

[fogbadge]

I think EMMI has the potential to be an absolutely terrifying assist trophy. Make it very rare, but absurdly powerful, fast, and precise. Lucky players might be able to get around it occassionally, but it should still be a pants-****tingly scary moment. It should instill the same fear that the player experiences encountering a roaming, unkillable boss like EMMI in a single-player experience.

Nemesis or Mr. X could also work for this if we got a Resident Evil character, but Wesker is probably the best assist trophy from that series.

we have enough absurdly powerful assist trophies thank you very much

 

[Will]

I think EMMI has the potential to be an absolutely terrifying assist trophy. Make it very rare, but absurdly powerful, fast, and precise. Lucky players might be able to get around it occassionally, but it should still be a pants-****tingly scary moment. It should instill the same fear that the player experiences encountering a roaming, unkillable boss like EMMI in a single-player experience.

Nemesis or Mr. X could also work for this if we got a Resident Evil character, but Wesker is probably the best assist trophy from that series.

It would probably need a mechanic that mimics the movement in Dread. Say you spawn it on the top platform of battlefield, now it has an animation where it crawls underneath and drops to the bottom levels (as opposed to the freefall stance just by double-tapping down, which is shared by other AT’s)

we have enough absurdly powerful assist trophies thank you very much

Assist trophies have been broken. Some are just a lot more effective than Nintendogs blocking the screen for five seconds.

 

[DarthEnderX]

we have enough absurdly powerful assist trophies thank you very much

Who cares how powerful they are? They're not meant to be balanced.