Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Jave]

To be honest, if Taito wasn’t owned by Square I’d be a lot more confident in it getting something more significant. As is I feel like it gets snubbed in favor of more prominent Square Enix series, and will be fortunate to get an Assist Trophy or something. Really that’s kinda all it needs since its characters are on the simple side but Bub / Bob would have been fun.

My pick for a Taito Assist Trophy would be Agent 17 a.k.a. "Otto" from Elevator Action. I loved that game back in my Arcade days as a kid and would love to see it repped in Smash, even if it's just a Spirit battle (which I guess would be played by Snake).

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Why would they ever do this when Smash itself already exists and has Zelda characters in it?

I mean the roster is fine, if pretty standard, and some of these characters I would like to see in Smash, but I don't see the point of an exclusive Zelda Smash spinoff. Making a whole new game just so C-list characters of a specific series can exist in the Smash Bros engine seems pretty extra.

Well to be fair that's pretty much what Kirby fighters is so...

Jokes aside, I hope people aren't reading too hard into these spirits one way or the other. But I do think it may be at least a little bit valuable just to acknowledge "these are the recent titles they thought were important" and "those are some of the companies they're still talking with". Konami getting a new spirit is probably a good omen for negotiations to persist in some fashion for example, particularly if we're in the early stages of planning as we speak.

Yeah I think the third party spirits are actually the most exciting one. 13 sentinels getting spirits was pretty cool because it's a Sega Atlus published games (not that expect Smash to cut ties with Sega but still).

Detached from SE they would feel more comparable to someone like SNK, I think. On that note I wonder which other companies in that vein may have a shot next time around.

I feel like Nihon Falcom is pretty much in the same spot as SNK and I could see having a decent shot. Similar to SNK, Falcom is pretty niche, but it's still well known if you're a fan of their respective genre (jrpg or fighting games). I'd argue that what helps Falcom is that they seems to be getting more and more popular thanks to localisation of Trails from zero and Azure and Nis America picking up the Trails franchise was very good because there was a lot of release in the past 2 years.

 

[Speed Weed]

To be honest, if Taito wasn’t owned by Square I’d be a lot more confident in it getting something more significant. As is I feel like it gets snubbed in favor of more prominent Square Enix series, and will be fortunate to get an Assist Trophy or something. Really that’s kinda all it needs since its characters are on the simple side but Bub / Bob would have been fun.

Detached from SE they would feel more comparable to someone like SNK, I think. On that note I wonder which other companies in that vein may have a shot next time around.

For what it's worth Taito operates very independently from SE and handles their own licensing so I wonder how the Smash team sees that, but yeah I understand what you're getting at here. It's the curse of company acquisitions in a Smash context, really - it's like how Sol and Kunio appeal to completely different crowds and by no means should have to compete with each other, but they'll have to anyway since ArcSys bought Technos. As for characters, I really do think Bub/Bob are the way to go here - they have that perfect combination of genuine icon status and gameplay viability where other Taito characters fail in one aspect or another. They are absolutely The Ones. After that.....eh, I'd be fine if we left it at that. Taito's back catalogue does have a lot of really fun characters, and plenty of them have become somewhat mainstays in the company's history by way of crossovers and the like, but the vast majority of them just aren't the kind of thing Smash goes for. We're not ever seeing Reika Kirishima, yknow?

As for the SNK comparison, yeah - I think one of the reasons I've been pulling for this so much is, in my view, divorced from Squeenix, Taito are basically the perfect next SNK. Influential but overlooked while still being just popular enough to get a nod compared to more niche names, have a really interesting depth of catalogue that would be great to show off, they just feel right as an inclusion to me. Hell, they're definitely bigger than SNK, I'd say. As for the potential of other SNK-style picks......well, in terms of arcade companies at the very least, I don't know that any others reach the same level. One time, I went through the famous Gamest magazine's yearly awards, and joined together each year's vote standings for "favorite arcade company" - when it was all laid out and tallied up, there were 6 companies that were head-and-shoulders ahead of the rest: Capcom, Namco, SEGA, Taito, Konami and SNK. Of those, only Taito is missing, and after that is when you get to the more "cult favorite" development houses that I think would be best represented by side content. Maybe they could do something like Cave? IDK.

 

[Shinuto]

For what it's worth Taito operates very independently from SE and handles their own licensing so I wonder how the Smash team sees that, but yeah I understand what you're getting at here. It's the curse of company acquisitions in a Smash context, really - it's like how Sol and Kunio appeal to completely different crowds and by no means should have to compete with each other, but they'll have to anyway since ArcSys bought Technos. As for characters, I really do think Bub/Bob are the way to go here - they have that perfect combination of genuine icon status and gameplay viability where other Taito characters fail in one aspect or another. They are absolutely The Ones. After that.....eh, I'd be fine if we left it at that. Taito's back catalogue does have a lot of really fun characters, and plenty of them have become somewhat mainstays in the company's history by way of crossovers and the like, but the vast majority of them just aren't the kind of thing Smash goes for. We're not ever seeing Reika Kirishima, yknow?

As for the SNK comparison, yeah - I think one of the reasons I've been pulling for this so much is, in my view, divorced from Squeenix, Taito are basically the perfect next SNK. Influential but overlooked while still being just popular enough to get a nod compared to more niche names, have a really interesting depth of catalogue that would be great to show off, they just feel right as an inclusion to me. Hell, they're definitely bigger than SNK, I'd say. As for the potential of other SNK-style picks......well, in terms of arcade companies at the very least, I don't know that any others reach the same level. One time, I went through the famous Gamest magazine's yearly awards, and joined together each year's vote standings for "favorite arcade company" - when it was all laid out and tallied up, there were 6 companies that were head-and-shoulders ahead of the rest: Capcom, Namco, SEGA, Taito, Konami and SNK. Of those, only Taito is missing, and after that is when you get to the more "cult favorite" development houses that I think would be best represented by side content. Maybe they could do something like Cave? IDK.

Taito has no iconic characters that would represent the company.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Taito has no iconic characters that would represent the company.

Say what?

 

[Speed Weed]

Taito has no iconic characters that would represent the company.

Did you not see me going to bat for Bubble Bobble

Like after that yeah we don't need anymore, but

 

[Gengar84]

Say what?

View attachment 385983

Space Invaders is definitely iconic enough but I’m not really sure they have enough material for a playable character. It would make an awesome stage and/or assist trophy though. Bub and Bob make more sense for the playable role in my opinion.

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Well to be fair that's pretty much what Kirby fighters is so...

Not a great example, most of the roster is just Kirby with Copy Abilities.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Since RPGs were just mentioned, I thought I'd post this:

At this point, you just sometimes wonder why Nihon Falcom didn't have any content in Smash Ultimate at all?

You think we could get a spirit for Contra: Operation Galuga? I don’t really have a ton of interest in spirits one way or the other but it would be nice to see Contra get at least some kind of content in Smash. Apologies if Contra already has something, I haven’t really been keeping up with the spirit events.

I wish Contra did have something in Smash.

 

[Gorgonzales]

View attachment 385975Make a 20 Character Zelda Smash/Fighter roster with almost no personal bias:
View attachment 385976
The Two most Iconic Links, A Zelda filling the classic adult role not repped by link, Sheik for the smash fans, impa, all sages and ganondorf for the rep from the most popular zeldas, tingle duh.
One Rep per "Classic 3d" Zelda
And 4 Of Ganons most popular and reacuring monsters!

Give me THIS EXACT Roster and ill be satisfied!
Just make this game Please Nintendo!

This was a fun challenge and honestly better illustrates how much Smash squanders Zelda's potential when it comes to characters

 

[Chuderz]

I'm just saying when you look at the timetable for both the last installment of the FF7 Remake trilogy and the next Smash game it all lines up. Plus I think Tifa and Barret are both very worthy of Smash on their own merits as established video game figures iconic in their own right. Is there a Japanese video game black man as iconic as Barret? Truly asking because I don't know but I think Barret is probably the top of pack and yeah Smash needs more black characters. It's pretty obvious when looking at the roster. Tifa for sure is one the most popular and historically significant video game heroines alongside Aerith and Yuffie from the same game and the likes of Chun-Li, Samus, Jill Valentine, Lara Croft and so on.

At least I'll be happy if more FF7 characters get in and I think it'll land very well with most of the casual audience. I don't expect reaction compilations to consist of people bemoaning another Final Fantasy 7 character. Instead I'd expect to see the same level of excitement we got with the last 2 and the only people complaining will be a loud minority of dedicated FF fans.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm just saying when you look at the timetable for both the last installment of the FF7 Remake trilogy and the next Smash game it all lines up. Plus I think Tifa and Barret are both very worthy of Smash on their own merits as established video game figures iconic in their own right. Is there a Japanese video game black man as iconic as Barret? Truly asking because I don't know but I think Barret is probably the top of pack and yeah Smash needs more black characters. It's pretty obvious when looking at the roster. Tifa for sure is one the most popular and historically significant video game heroines alongside Aerith and Yuffie from the same game and the likes of Chun-Li, Samus, Jill Valentine, Lara Croft and so on.

At least I'll be happy if more FF7 characters get in and I think it'll land very well with most of the casual audience. I don't expect reaction compilations to consist of people bemoaning another Final Fantasy 7 character. Instead I'd expect to see the same level of excitement we got with the last 2 and the only people complaining will be a loud minority of dedicated FF fans.

If nothing else, I think it’s a good sign for getting Cloud and Sephiroth back. I’d be happy to see any other FFVII character too but I’d rather see a Chrono or Octopath character next. If we do get a FFVII character, my next personal favorite is Vincent Valentine. He did get his own game at one point which is more than the rest of the cast can say but I’m not sure how much that counts for.

I could be wrong on this one but I have a feeling Vincent was a pretty big source of Inspiration for Dante (DMC) just based on visual and thematic similarities. I don’t have any proof to back that claim up but I’ve always thought the two characters had a lot in common. Not sure whether that’s relevant at all to the discussion, just wanted to share my thoughts.

There are rumors that we’re getting a FFIX remake and cartoon at some point. If those are set to come out around the same time as the next Smash, I could see them going with someone from that game. My favorites there are Garnet and Amarant but the whole cast is great. Vivi is the most popular so I think he’s probably the one they’d go with.

 

[Louie G.]

For what it's worth Taito operates very independently from SE and handles their own licensing so I wonder how the Smash team sees that, but yeah I understand what you're getting at here. It's the curse of company acquisitions in a Smash context, really - it's like how Sol and Kunio appeal to completely different crowds and by no means should have to compete with each other, but they'll have to anyway since ArcSys bought Technos. As for characters, I really do think Bub/Bob are the way to go here - they have that perfect combination of genuine icon status and gameplay viability where other Taito characters fail in one aspect or another. They are absolutely The Ones. After that.....eh, I'd be fine if we left it at that. Taito's back catalogue does have a lot of really fun characters, and plenty of them have become somewhat mainstays in the company's history by way of crossovers and the like, but the vast majority of them just aren't the kind of thing Smash goes for. We're not ever seeing Reika Kirishima, yknow?

I feel like Smash's / Sakurai's reverence for arcades is overlooked a lot. Pac-Man works as an ambassador for all of classic Namco, Terry exists and we all know that KOF story, even Little Mac opts to prioritize Punch-Out arcade for the KO Punch mechanic and his Wireframe alt as a few examples. I wouldn't go as far to say it's especially dominant on the roster but the last couple games have introduced a good amount of content celebrating arcade games. Further emphasis on Taito would not surprise me, I'm outright expecting some kind of non-playable Space Invaders representation and would gladly welcome Bub & Bob.

It makes me wonder which other Japanese arcade icons are missing - I'm biased, but Puyo Puyo is the first one to jump to mind. Really think a few classic SHMUPs, particularly from Konami, could warrant some acknowledgement as well. Not sure how far they'd take it but certainly Gradius / Parodius or Twinbee would be great series to throw some love toward. As far as fighting games go, we talked about Virtua Fighter already but at least that's in as an AT.

Beat 'em ups are probably another arcade centric genre worth talking about, on top of the aforementioned puzzle games and shmups. Streets of Rage, Double Dragon, Kunio-Kun... I wonder if there's any drive to bring these in. Hell, even Ninja Gaiden started as a beat 'em up in arcades. In the instance that Hayabusa is added to the roster, maybe Sakurai would feel inspired by this release? Definitely tangented from the initial point, but yeah I do think characters with these roots firmly planted in the classic Japanese arcade scene are worth taking seriously.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It's a pity that the rights to Data East titles are so messy because there's a decent arcade legacy there to be referenced in some small way.

 

[superprincess]

One thing I miss and hope Smash 6 delivers is more weird/niche character inclusions. I understand the big names have more of an impact when they're announced, but the weirdos can be just as influential longterm. Ultimate didn't really deliver on this front... Plant was pretty much the only wacky newcomer. Richter was pretty unknown and unexpected but his moveset is just a copy of Simon's, and while Terry was also kind of obscure and unexpected, he's just another fighting game character whose moveset is almost 1:1 with that of his original game.

I want more obscure characters with weird movesets. Stuff like Wii Fit Trainer and Duck Hunt Duo. Come to think of it, most of Smash 4's newcomers were like that. I mean, at the time, who expected Rosalina and Luma to join the fight as a duo character over series mainstays like Toad and (seemingly) Bowser Jr. or fan favorites like Geno, Paper Mario and Waluigi? Then Bowser Jr. joined and defied expectations by essentially being "Junior Clown Car: the moveset feat. Koopalings". There was also Robin getting in over Chrom with tomes and a Levin Sword in tow and a pretty unique durability gimmick, and Shulk who (at the time) was from a really niche and brought stat manipulation to Smash.

Ultimate's newcomers all being fan requests and/or prolific third parties is fine, I just wish some obscure fighters were also given a chance. The big names are exciting to see, but as time goes on, the hype naturally fades and sometimes you're left with a somewhat... meh moveset. Look at Ridley and Banjo for example. Hopefully the next game tries to strike a balance.

 

[Chuderz]

If nothing else, I think it’s a good sign for getting Cloud and Sephiroth back. I’d be happy to see any other FFVII character too but I’d rather see a Chrono or Octopath character next. If we do get a FFVII character, my next personal favorite is Vincent Valentine. He did get his own game at one point which is more than the rest of the cast can say but I’m not sure how much that counts for.

I could be wrong on this one but I have a feeling Vincent was a pretty big source of Inspiration for Dante (DMC) just based on visual and thematic similarities. I don’t have any proof to back that claim up but I’ve always thought the two characters had a lot in common. Not sure whether that’s relevant at all to the discussion, just wanted to share my thoughts.

There are rumors that we’re getting a FFIX remake and cartoon at some point. If those are set to come out around the same time as the next Smash, I could see them going with someone from that game. My favorites there are Garnet and Amarant but the whole cast is great. Vivi is the most popular so I think he’s probably the one they’d go with.

Oh yeah I forgot about that FFlX remake. I'm still wondering if it'll be of same quality as the FF7 remakes. People have been speculating that it won't be which I'd be fine with but I'd very much love for it to be given that AAA treatment. I'd be so stoked for Vivi to get in. Why do generic Black Mage when you could accomplish all of that with an actual character like Vivi? A beloved character within the fandom to boot. It'd be kind of funny to pass over Zidane the main character in favor of Vivi. I'm fine with any extended FF representation. Terra, Locke, Celes, all feel worthy of Smash alongside Zidane, Vivi and Garnet and Tidus and Yuna. I'd also be down for Kefka but I could see them making him a boss fight. Though I used to assume the same think about Sephiroth before he actually got in as a fighter.

While I am a fan of the idea of more FF7 characters getting in I do understand why it's very unappealing to detractors of that idea. I just think that there's a good chance it happens regardless based on the kinds of speculation we engage in around these parts. Smash is a video game hall of fame and billboard for upcoming/current titles from their respective companies.

I do wonder how Square's IP will be handled in future games. Dragon Quest's next character would likely be Slime and that's assuming Hero comes back but I don't think that's super appealing globally. I think Slime would be better as an AT to be honest. I get that people had conjured up moveset ideas for it and I think Sakurai hinted at considering Slime but again I just don't see the broad appeal of it. It is a Japanese made game though and we've seen time and time again that Japanese requests are just better than literally any other country's requests. I think Dragon Quest would be better served by expanding upon Hero's costume changes with more characters from the series and/or maybe even an echo of the female variants of the Dragon Quest heroes.

All Nier Automata needs is 2B and I'd love for her to get into the game. She deserves it as a very recent established video game heroine.

Then there's Kingdom Hearts. I could see Riku getting in as his own character. Roxas I think could be basically completely represented by being a costume for Sora (like Alph) and Kairi maybe an echo of Sora. You really don't need anyone else after that other than maybe giving this theoretical Kairi echo a Xioh costume. Well unless you wanna do Mickey Mouse at that point. I do wonder if Mickey Mouse did ever get into the game if he'd pull from just Kingdom Hearts material or like everything including his movies/shows and Epic Mickey in addition to King Hearts Mickey. Would he get his own series or be included into Kingdom Hearts? Hmmmmmmmmm. Decisions decisions. And Kingdom Hearts is in that weird Disney/Square hybrid lane with Mickey Mouse also being entirely in the Disney lane haha.

Then there's just Final Fantasy which has an almost Pokemon-esque wealth of potential characters and its also Square's franchise with the most global appeal. I wonder if that works against FF characters though and if the devs and Square would just default to more FF7 since it's already there.

Done ranting. Too much thought for one post.

 

[Louie G.]

Ultimate's newcomers all being fan requests and/or prolific third parties is fine, I just wish some obscure fighters were also given a chance. The big names are exciting to see, but as time goes on, the hype naturally fades and sometimes you're left with a somewhat... meh moveset. Look at Ridley and Banjo for example. Hopefully the next game tries to strike a balance.

Provided next game is a back-to-basics affair of a certain amount of cuts and a normal amount of base game newcomers, I don't see why we wouldn't return to form. I guess it's natural that Ultimate prioritized the biggest characters with how limited the space was, and in my opinion capitalized on it quite well. Incineroar and Piranha Plant I'd suggest were also pretty inspired inclusions, the former would have been more surprising without the leak culture surrounding him. Both of them have flashy and fun movesets... Incineroar may not be that "wacky", but I think his essence is unique and a lot of his attacks are pretty refreshing. Revenge is a fresh mechanic, his Side B is a goofy and unique form of command grab. King K. Rool has the perk of being both incredibly wacky and a fan favorite from the beginning. His belly armor, dual function Blunderbuss and the little game of keepaway you can play with his crown make him stand out a lot.

The hype fades in the greater community that feeds off that momentum, since the characters just kept getting bigger and bigger, but Ridley and K. Rool were still the most exciting additions to me and I've pretty much picked up Ridley as a secondary main. I think is moveset could use tweaks here and there but that doesn't make me regretful that he was added. I might be misunderstanding but I just don't really agree with the implication that some of these big characters are worth less longterm because they hit a snag. It just makes me hope they get improvements next time, but their presence is appreciated by the ones who really wanted them. Even some of the biggest names in the game like Steve and Sephiroth, as "safe" as they are do contribute a lot of new and exciting ideas and add a lot to the roster dynamic. Hero is straight up one of the most hilarious characters in the game, even if I think his design is a bit much.

But I do think DLC was a little safe. I wish we got a wider variety of characters, more deep cuts, etc. I don't know what I'd really change about it, if anything, but Terry stands as my favorite DLC addition precisely because of that unexpectedness and flavor. I miss when Smash Bros was able to introduce people to new things - and furthermore when the community was more willing to learn about them. Terry felt like the one addition that was like, okay guys just shut up for a second and check this guy out he's actually kinda cool and important. I didn't think we could do that anymore.

Ended up rambling again. Bottom line is I do think next game will return to form and take some interesting liberties, offer some strange surprises. We were stuck in DLC hell for a while and that set expectations ablaze, but if we're to take Sakurai's word for it much of that was Nintendo's doing. We haven't seen any decisions made explicitly by Sakurai since 2018. I do believe he had a say in the conversation, but I digress - I'm moreso ready to get back to how things are done under his full creative control. Base game always delivers on fun ideas we would have never thought of ourselves.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As far as this spirit event, I'd imagine that its likely for notable games in the past year that haven't been featured in Smash yet. I mean I can't think of any notable Switch releases today for it to tie into....

...aw crap.

 

[Ivander]

It makes me wonder which other Japanese arcade icons are missing - I'm biased, but Puyo Puyo is the first one to jump to mind. Really think a few classic SHMUPs, particularly from Konami, could warrant some acknowledgement as well. Not sure how far they'd take it but certainly Gradius / Parodius or Twinbee would be great series to throw some love toward.

Twinbee's an interesting one to think about. Besides Sakurai's love for SHMUPs with all of the models of different SHMUP ships he has, and Twinbee actually having a design with hands and legs to make designing it for a fighting game easier compared to Vic Viper...

But one of the characters Sakurai made for Kirby Super Star, Capsule J, may have been a homage to Twinbee before they were replaced in Super Star Ultra by Capsule J2.

 

[Guynamednelson]

As far as this spirit event, I'd imagine that its likely for notable games in the past year that haven't been featured in Smash yet. I mean I can't think of any notable Switch releases today for it to tie into....




View attachment 385988

...aw crap.

You know what to do.

TAKE YOUR DAMN CLOTHES OFF!

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

You know what to do.

TAKE YOUR DAMN CLOTHES OFF!

Fingers crossed that this doesn't lead to any attempt at crossovers:

 

[Hadokeyblade]

One thing I miss and hope Smash 6 delivers is more weird/niche character inclusions. I understand the big names have more of an impact when they're announced, but the weirdos can be just as influential longterm. Ultimate didn't really deliver on this front... Plant was pretty much the only wacky newcomer. Richter was pretty unknown and unexpected but his moveset is just a copy of Simon's, and while Terry was also kind of obscure and unexpected, he's just another fighting game character whose moveset is almost 1:1 with that of his original game.

At this point those are the kinds of newcomers im more interested in, Phoenix wright seems like a good idea.

He falls into the weird character niche perfectly.

 

[SPEN18]

Wii Fit and Duck Hunt aren't obscure or niche, though. But unexpected and wackier additions, sure (though Duck Hunt did have some following prior to being leaked).

As far as wackier additions for the future go, a lot of the outstanding Nintendo franchises could offer something on the wild side. Ring Fit, Excitebike, Wave Race, Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, etc. etc. ...all of those I would see the representative taking on a highly unconventional fighting style.

Another avenue that I'd like to put out is another Animal Crossing character beyond Tom Nook. Available characters with unconventional fighting styles? Check. Massive enough series to justify it? Yep. Yet so many people seem convinced that its representation isn't going past Villager and Isabelle...lol Tom Nook is like the most obvious addition there is and he is still going to catch plenty of people off-guard if he gets in. But a second AC character in the same game? It's a bold take maybe but I could see it happening given the "surprising, yet sensible in retrospect" factor.

 

[MasterCheef]

But it's not about what we need. It's about who SE and Nintendo want to push.

thank you DarthEnderX , finally someone else who realizes the most important group for character selection in Smash is in fact the big Wigs at Nintendo

 

[CannonStreak]

Spoiler: Warning:Kinda Long Post

You know, I think Smash Bros. and Sakurai has this mentality in terms of returning fighters...

I mean, to explain, there are plenty of characters that are in the case of being irrelevant now, but without counting Smash Bros. Ultimate, which is a special case, some characters have not been in a game outside of Smash Bros. for so long that if the first Smash Bros. game was released on the Switch, chances are, they would not get in the game.

I mean, there is Fox, Captain Falcon and Ness, to begin with. I think Jigglypuff would count as well. Shiek from the Legend of Zelda counts, despite getting a design for Brawl that was from Zelda: Twilight Princess, which she was cut from. Ice Climbers do count, and maybe Mr. Game and Watch. Roy and Ike from Fire Emblem might also count since they have not been in a Fire Emblem game in recent times, except maybe Engage if that counts. There is also a duo character that is Banjo and Kazooie, but they are new, so I won't count them.

Also, while I am not counting Ultimate, since there is the "Everyone is Here" thing, I will point out that there were three Links in that game, one (Young Link) not being used for so long, when they did not have to add three links.

With all that said, I know relevance is still a factor as to which characters may get in, but aside from that, I think one thing is for sure; once a character gets in as a playable character, they can come back much easier than fans think they can.

In other words, "Once a playable Smash Bros. character, always a playable Smash Bros. character".

So with that, I think if characters like Captain Syrup from Wario Land and Wart from Super Mario USA were to be playable in a previous Smash Bros. game, they would have come back in the Smash Bros. games after that. I know, that is not always going to be the case for every character there is, but I think once a character gets in, being irrelevant and appearing in not too many or no games outside of Smash Bros. at all does little to prevent them from returning in the next Smash Bros. game. I mean, Ice Climbers only did not get into Smash Bros. 4 due to hardware limitations aside from not appearing in a game lately at that time.

With that said, don't you all think it is weird that relevance can be important for characters to get into Smash Bros., but not much as to such characters who were already in a Smash Bros. game returning in future Smash Bros. titles?

This is just an observation I made, by the way.

 

[Gorgonzales]

One thing I miss and hope Smash 6 delivers is more weird/niche character inclusions.
I want more obscure characters with weird movesets.

Nominating Xananab to be the next DK rep, who uses mechanics from the "climber" subset of DK games like King of Swing and Jungle Climber.

 

[PeridotGX]

As far as this spirit event, I'd imagine that its likely for notable games in the past year that haven't been featured in Smash yet. I mean I can't think of any notable Switch releases today for it to tie into....




View attachment 385988

...aw crap.

Alternatively, we could get Reindog to tie into the Multiversus relaunch.

 

[7NATOR]

Spoiler: Warning:Kinda Long Post

You know, I think Smash Bros. and Sakurai has this mentality in terms of returning fighters...

I mean, to explain, there are plenty of characters that are in the case of being irrelevant now, but without counting Smash Bros. Ultimate, which is a special case, some characters have not been in a game outside of Smash Bros. for so long that if the first Smash Bros. game was released on the Switch, chances are, they would not get in the game.

I mean, there is Fox, Captain Falcon and Ness, to begin with. I think Jigglypuff would count as well. Shiek from the Legend of Zelda counts, despite getting a design for Brawl that was from Zelda: Twilight Princess, which she was cut from. Ice Climbers do count, and maybe Mr. Game and Watch. Roy and Ike from Fire Emblem might also count since they have not been in a Fire Emblem game in recent times, except maybe Engage if that counts. There is also a duo character that is Banjo and Kazooie, but they are new, so I won't count them.

Also, while I am not counting Ultimate, since there is the "Everyone is Here" thing, I will point out that there were three Links in that game, one (Young Link) not being used for so long, when they did not have to add three links.

With all that said, I know relevance is still a factor as to which characters may get in, but aside from that, I think one thing is for sure; once a character gets in as a playable character, they can come back much easier than fans think they can.

In other words, "Once a playable Smash Bros. character, always a playable Smash Bros. character".

So with that, I think if characters like Captain Syrup from Wario Land and Wart from Super Mario USA were to be playable in a previous Smash Bros. game, they would have come back in the Smash Bros. games after that. I know, that is not always going to be the case for every character there is, but I think once a character gets in, being irrelevant and appearing in not too many or no games outside of Smash Bros. at all does little to prevent them from returning in the next Smash Bros. game. I mean, Ice Climbers only did not get into Smash Bros. 4 due to hardware limitations aside from not appearing in a game lately at that time.

With that said, don't you all think it is weird that relevance can be important for characters to get into Smash Bros., but not much as to such characters who were already in a Smash Bros. game returning in future Smash Bros. titles?

This is just an observation I made, by the way.

I don't really think it's weird. It's kind of like how Inventing the Computer or the Iphone is very hard the first time, but replicating it and perhaps upgrading the initial design is easier due to already having the know how

The characters that are in used their relevancy at the right time to be Conceptualized among other candidates, which alot of characters don't even get into that stage, and then developed into the Fighters that we have now.

If they had to use Relevancy, since some characters have extra circumstances that allows them to circumvent that in the first place

I know some characters do get moves changed, but for better, or worse depending on how you look at it, Characters don't change much in their moveset, so it's a much easier ask to know what to develop then take on what's essentially an unknown idea in a New character, and at this stage of the game, Smash has opened up the gates to Video Game characters from all sorts of Companies

Anyway looking at the Franchises, the only Franchises I think would be at Risk if they weren't in and Relevancy was a Factor would be F-Zero and Mother. Even then, they each had at least 3 games (F-Zero had way more) which is more than you can say for most other Nintendo Games. on that note, here are Nintendo franchises that have had 3 or More games that aren't in

-Chibi Robo
-Custom Robo
-The Legendary Stary
-Sin and Punishment
-Golden Sun
-Style Savvy
-Rhythm Heaven
-Advance Wars
-Excite
-Famicom Detective Club

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

I don't really think it's weird. It's kind of like how Inventing the Computer or the Iphone is very hard the first time, but replicating it and perhaps upgrading the initial design is easier due to already having the know how

The characters that are in used their relevancy at the right time to be Conceptualized among other candidates, which alot of characters don't even get into that stage, and then developed into the Fighters that we have now.

If they had to use Relevancy, since some characters have extra circumstances that allows them to circumvent that in the first place

I know some characters do get moves changed, but for better, or worse depending on how you look at it, Characters don't change much in their moveset, so it's a much easier ask to know what to develop then take on what's essentially an unknown idea in a New character, and at this stage of the game, Smash has opened up the gates to Video Game characters from all sorts of Companies

Anyway looking at the Franchises, the only Franchises I think would be at Risk if they weren't in and Relevancy was a Factor would be F-Zero and Mother. Even then, they each had at least 3 games (F-Zero had way more) which is more than you can say for most other Nintendo Games. on that note, here are Nintendo franchises that have had 3 or More games that aren't in

-Chibi Robo
-Custom Robo
-The Legendary Stary
-Sin and Punishment
-Golden Sun
-Style Savvy
-Rhythm Heaven
-Advance Wars
-Excite
-Famicom Detective Club

I'd put my chances on Golden Sun, Rhythm Heaven, and Famicom Detective Club getting in a future roster.

 

[CannonStreak]

I don't really think it's weird. It's kind of like how Inventing the Computer or the Iphone is very hard the first time, but replicating it and perhaps upgrading the initial design is easier due to already having the know how

The characters that are in used their relevancy at the right time to be Conceptualized among other candidates, which alot of characters don't even get into that stage, and then developed into the Fighters that we have now.

If they had to use Relevancy, since some characters have extra circumstances that allows them to circumvent that in the first place

I know some characters do get moves changed, but for better, or worse depending on how you look at it, Characters don't change much in their moveset, so it's a much easier ask to know what to develop then take on what's essentially an unknown idea in a New character, and at this stage of the game, Smash has opened up the gates to Video Game characters from all sorts of Companies

Anyway looking at the Franchises, the only Franchises I think would be at Risk if they weren't in and Relevancy was a Factor would be F-Zero and Mother. Even then, they each had at least 3 games (F-Zero had way more) which is more than you can say for most other Nintendo Games. on that note, here are Nintendo franchises that have had 3 or More games that aren't in

-Chibi Robo
-Custom Robo
-The Legendary Stary
-Sin and Punishment
-Golden Sun
-Style Savvy
-Rhythm Heaven
-Advance Wars
-Golden Sun
-Excite

Did I say it was weird? Goes to look

God damn it! I must have not been paying attention! I did not mean to use that word.

Still, I think it is kind of funny, if that is the right word, that something like that seems to be the case for Smash Bros. You also do make some good points, 7NATOR.

I do still, as I said, think relevancy would be a factor for characters getting in. Still, with characters being mainstays despite irrelevancy, you would maybe think that would work the other way around for characters yet to become playable in Smash, if you know what I mean. Maybe not, but I think irrelevancy is one thing we can not throw away, but rather use less in determining which characters are likely to come back in the next Smash Bros. game once they become playable in one, is it not?

 

[Louie G.]

finally someone else who realizes the most important group for character selection in Smash is in fact the big Wigs at Nintendo

Not really. Nintendo obviously gets the final say, but there’s little reason to believe they’ve got Sakurai by the balls or anything. I’m sure they can make suggestions and of course have jurisdiction over how those characters are represented. But Sakurai constructs the roster and pitches them through the project plan. Base rosters are his doing.

Ultimate’s DLC was decided by Nintendo. That much has been made clear and the reason that was specified is because it’s usually Sakurai making the decisions. These characters were notably major third parties and characters from Switch games, with a general aim to strengthen business partnerships. Some great selections, but the philosophy was notably different because these were the ones swayed by the “big wigs”.

 

[superprincess]

The more I think about it, the more I believe cuts will be made as conservatively as possible. Especially when thinking about what CannonStreak said. Of course I'm not fully in the "no cuts, the current roster is sacred, any cut will decrease the final product's quality immensely" camp, but I also don't think we'll get more than say, 20. 25 if in a time crunch. A lot of you may still think that's a lot, but at some point I kinda believed we'd be approaching a really uncomfortable situation with ~35 or so characters cut.

There's just too many characters that would cause an outrage, and I think Nintendo knows this. This is not accounting for licensing issues.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Another avenue that I'd like to put out is another Animal Crossing character beyond Tom Nook. Available characters with unconventional fighting styles? Check. Massive enough series to justify it? Yep. Yet so many people seem convinced that its representation isn't going past Villager and Isabelle...lol Tom Nook is like the most obvious addition there is and he is still going to catch plenty of people off-guard if he gets in. But a second AC character in the same game? It's a bold take maybe but I could see it happening given the "surprising, yet sensible in retrospect" factor.

It's pretty crazy how under-discussed Animal crossing is tbh. For me a new AC character is pretty much a shoe in as much as Pokémon or Splatoon is. And yeah like you said, Tom Nook is probably the obvious choise, but I wouldn't sleep on KK Slider. He's very popular and arguably more than Tom Nook actually, and I think a music based moveset would be super fun. Not sure if that helps him but if anything he's also the AC character to have a mii costume alongside Isabelle.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Twinbee's an interesting one to think about. Besides Sakurai's love for SHMUPs with all of the models of different SHMUP ships he has, and Twinbee actually having a design with hands and legs to make designing it for a fighting game easier compared to Vic Viper...

I'd prefer Tako from Parodius to represent shmups.

Of course I'm not fully in the "no cuts, the current roster is sacred, any cut will decrease the final product's quality immensely" camp

It's a pretty nice caaaamp. There's an arcade and a concession stand.

 

[NintenRob]

I think Smash tends to design fighters in a way of "What makes the most sense for this fighters design?" Like a first impression.


To use the most controversial example. Ganondorf. You look at Ganondorf, you see this big burly intimidating man (At least he was in Melee, TP Ganondorf is more armour than muscle), so he's designed as a bit more of a slow brawler because that's what you'd expect from a big burly intimidating figure. Then with that archetype, you build around that with stuff that's more specific to that character. Dark Magic effects with the punches, giant sword swings. Is the result perfect? Not always, but it's the kind of design that makes it easier to pick up and play most characters in the game.

For another quicker example. Ike and Robin have fairly high speed stats in their games, but play slower in Smash because their designs don't really lend themselves to a speedy Moveset. Mewtwo is light because he generally looks kinda fragile. Smash designs movesets a lot based on look and body type, especially in earlier games, rather than cramming in a billion references. Which in my opinion, makes for some natural feeling movesets

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Ok, no spirit event announcement again.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Ok, no spirit event announcement again.

Just be patient.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

I'm guessing the last one is Princess Peach Showtime since that's coming out in 2 weeks and wanted to save it til it's out.

 

[Noipoi]

Princess Peach and Mario Wonder spirit event, after Peach game releases.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Just be patient.

Has there been any announcement?