Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[GoldenYuiitusin]

"It's accurate to his series!" doesn't hold weight. You have to make sacrifices when translating media; Link and Olimar aren't known for jumping either, but they do it just fine. There's numerous other examples, but you get the picture.

There is a clear difference between simply not being given the option to jump and being explicitly not able to jump and that being the core premise of the gameplay to stand out from other characters in the franchise.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I forgot about the Super Crown, heh. So yeah, I could see Toadette working as a separate character too(with some Captain abilities thrown in, perhaps).

...Though that might work as a transformation character, though having a third Peach is kind of funny, but if they give Daisy a few differences(as well as other nearly identical Echoes), it could work well. XD Joking aside, it might work better as a Final Smash?

Just make it an item. Now there will be +80 Peach clones.
But, what happen if THE Peach wore the crown?

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Just make it an item. Now there will be +80 Peach clones.
But, what happen if THE Peach wore the crown?

There are other outlets for you to get Bowsette.
Let's not even entertain the idea of making it real in any form.

 

[superprincess]

I forgot about the Super Crown, heh. So yeah, I could see Toadette working as a separate character too(with some Captain abilities thrown in, perhaps).

...Though that might work as a transformation character, though having a third Peach is kind of funny, but if they give Daisy a few differences(as well as other nearly identical Echoes), it could work well. XD Joking aside, it might work better as a Final Smash?

I really don't think Peachette will ever get anywhere near playable status in Smash, but I did write a pretty extensive moveset concept for Toadette/Peachette as a transformation char and it actually turned out pretty unique.

In all seriousness, Super Crown aside, if Toad himself can't make it, I could see Toadette ending up as the species' representative in Smash. She's often alluded to being pretty popular and beloved among Toads, so maybe she was chosen by them to be sent to battle? She's interchangeable with Toad nowadays so the moveset would be the same, except she's more of an individual, which erases some of the problems Toad as a Smash candidate has.

Keeping the 64 stages with N64 look was a choice and definitely not rooted in Laziness. Whether you like it or not is just personal choice but N64 had a very unique aesthetic so keeping that look would be nostalgic for quite a few.


It's just appealing to Nostalgia, that's all. (And I should clarify, that's not a bad thing)

Oh I didn't even imply the stages look like that due to laziness. I even clarified that they were touched up pretty majorly. It's just weird that the effort went towards smoothing out the N64 look rather than modernizing them altogether. Maybe I'm just saying that because I'm used to Project M's version of Dream Land and Meta Crystal.

 

[Ivander]

There are other outlets for you to get Bowsette.
Let's not even entertain the idea of making it real in any form.

Not even different dimension/multiverse shananigans?

That said, We almost did get it in Odyssey.

 

[NintenRob]

Oh I didn't even imply the stages look like that due to laziness. I even clarified that they were touched up pretty majorly. It's just weird that the effort went towards smoothing out the N64 look rather than modernizing them altogether. Maybe I'm just saying that because I'm used to Project M's version of Dream Land and Meta Crystal.

I would certainly be keen for a full blown glow up, I love what they did for Melee and 3DS stages (and even Brawl, it just stands out a little less than). But I do get why they kept them same. Keep that historic look.

 

[Gorgonzales]

There is a clear difference between simply not being given the option to jump and being explicitly not able to jump and that being the core premise of the gameplay to stand out from other characters in the franchise.

Yes, I understand that, I was just giving the examples that happened to be in my mind at the time. My point still stands that Captain Toad should be given terrible jumps instead of lacking the option to jump altogether. It's possible to get the vibe of a charter's home series across without having to either cripple the character or bend the rules of Smash and platform fighters in overly gimmicky and blatantly unfun ways.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Not even different dimension/multiverse shananigans?

That said, We almost did get it in Odyssey.

Well that's still different from Super Crown Bowser, so -shrug-

 

[Ivander]

Well that's still different from Super Crown Bowser, so -shrug-

I don't expect outright Super Crown Bowsette to happen in all honesty, but depending on what ideas they have for future games, and considering it almost happened in Odyssey, I can see some sort of Peach/Bowser-like hybrid character/transformation/version potentially happen.

 

[Kirbeh]

Well, if there’s any iconic characters likely not getting in Smash, I guess I’ll say it. I don’t think Crash will come to Smash. It sucks to hear, and with the series slinking back into dormancy, alongside not really being as consistently relevant as Mario and Sonic are, plus Microsoft perhaps wanting other picks… it doesn’t look good for Crash.


I don’t think Smash can even be CERO A without dramatically censoring content. We’ve already seen this with the recent spirit events and Mii costumes to the end of FP2.

Keeping the series at CERO A would basically make Spirits (or their equivalent next game), or other aspects sterile. No references to that game. Even when people complained about them no longer having descriptions… imagine if the stages and spirits couldn’t reference what game or series they were from, or even some characters missing emblems…

Worst case scenario, we see the exclusion of many different T-rated franchises. Metroid, Mother, Xenoblade, Street Fighter, Tekken… they would all have to be cut, and… just no. That’s too much, and would be too drastic.

Smash 6 really should just become a flat CERO B rating, to at least get that T rated content in the game. For M-rated stuff… I honestly think that’s a lost cause for now. I do hope for Bayonetta to return, as she’s basically an honorary Nintendo character at this point, but I’m not a 100% sure now.

I wonder if the age rating discrepancy between Japan, the USA, and even Europe is something Sakurai and Nintendo take into account when planning the next game’s roster.

I mean Smash has already ready been rated CERO A. It's been an A since CERO was established. It's also already been censoring things since Brawl (possibly Melee but I grew up with Brawl so someone else will need to chime in there.)

If they continue aiming for an A you should be expecting pretty much everything we've gotten so far. The exception being on whether CERO becomes even stricter, then you can start worrying about Bayo, Aegis, etc.

It's pretty clear that Nintendo wants the series to remain an A in Japan but it's harder to tell for the rest of the world. One, because ratings standards differ by region and two, Nintendo has seemed fine with past entries getting a T rating in the US for example. Though that was then for Melee and Brawl, perhaps nowadays they feel differently.

The past 2 games have been E10+, but I think that's more on the ESRB side of things. E10 didn't exist back when Melee released after all.

I'm in the same boat of wanting them to aim for a C (or at least a B,) I just don't see any scenario where that actually happens. In their eyes it's likely seen as harmful too the brand image. Understandable to an extent but in a game where you can already shoot Mario with guns or choke him out I feel like they're already just barely getting away with it. Honestly I don't even know how they're maintaining the A.

 

[Guynamednelson]

It's also already been censoring things since Brawl (possibly Melee but I grew up with Brawl so someone else will need to chime in there.)

It changed "hell of a guy" to "heck of a guy" in the DK Rap, something they didn't really need to do in a T-rated game. (I unironically expected the T rating to mean it actually was more violent than Smash 64.)

But as long as Bayonetta can still be depicted the way she is in 4/Ultimate, we don't need to aim for a higher rating. I'm sure Nintendo would rather not have Mario be in a game whose content rating is sandwiched between T and M anyway.

 

[superprincess]

I genuinely don't understand why this is such a big topic. Is it because of that new rule that forbids naming M-rated games in games that are rated lower or something like that?

Smash is already a 12+ game here in Europe. For reference, the ratings go as follows: 3, 7, 12, 16, 18. So Smash is smack dab in the middle, and has been since Brawl. And guess what, it's never had problems selling here.

I may be ignorant to some other underlying stuff, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but this kinda seems like a non-issue. I don't see anything dramatically shifting even if they have to up the rating in America and Japan.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I genuinely don't understand why this is such a big topic. Is it because of that new rule that forbids naming M-rated games in games that are rated lower or something like that?

I don't think it's as strict of a rule as "Featuring Dante from the...um...well it features Dante!" would make it out to be.

Fall Guys has an E, lower than Smash's E10, and this trailer is allowed to say the Doom costumes are based on Doom.

 

[Lionfranky]

Some people will probably disagree with me on this, but Lara Croft. I just sincerely do not see it happening.

I guess some more impractical characters like a Space Invader as well, but I do think they have a good chance of having some non-playable presence in the game.

Especially with Embracer... I don't have much high hope that Nintendo would approach... hope I'm proven wrong though.

 

[SPEN18]

I genuinely don't understand why this is such a big topic. Is it because of that new rule that forbids naming M-rated games in games that are rated lower or something like that?

Smash is already a 12+ game here in Europe. For reference, the ratings go as follows: 3, 7, 12, 16, 18. So Smash is smack dab in the middle, and has been since Brawl. And guess what, it's never had problems selling here.

I may be ignorant to some other underlying stuff, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but this kinda seems like a non-issue. I don't see anything dramatically shifting even if they have to up the rating in America and Japan.

I also think the issue is overblown. Here in the States, both Smash 4 and Ult were Everyone 10+. It's certainly not ever going to M, so it's just between E10+ and Teen like it used to be. Based on this and what you say about the European ratings, the issue is seemingly more on the JP end which I am not super familiar with.

But anyway I think this gets talked so much largely because we have an increasing number of people wanting and talking about characters from games on the heavier end of the spectrum. The number of characters primarily known for their M-rated appearances who people would seriously entertain was pretty minimal up until recently.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I forgot about the Super Crown, heh. So yeah, I could see Toadette working as a separate character too(with some Captain abilities thrown in, perhaps).

...Though that might work as a transformation character, though having a third Peach is kind of funny

Super Crown should be an Item.

Everyone is Peach!

Then reuse those assets for Demitri's Midnight Bliss.

But, what happen if THE Peach wore the crown?

Turns into Toadette. Duh.

It's just appealing to Nostalgia, that's all. (And I should clarify, that's not a bad thing)

Seeing classic characters and places reimagined in the modern era is one of the appeals of Smash.

I'd be pissed if Kunio finally made it in, and he was just his NES sprite. No matter how iconic it is.

 

[StormC]

I also think the issue is overblown. Here in the States, both Smash 4 and Ult were Everyone 10+. It's certainly not ever going to M, so it's just between E10+ and Teen like it used to be. Based on this and what you say about the European ratings, the issue is seemingly more on the JP end which I am not super familiar with.

But anyway I think this gets talked so much largely because we have an increasing number of people wanting and talking about characters from games on the heavier end of the spectrum. The number of characters primarily known for their M-rated appearances who people would seriously entertain was pretty minimal up until recently.

I think the main hangup is realistic gore is very heavily scrutinized in Japanese rating systems, so series like RE would have be adjusted a lot for Smash.

That's not a problem for me, but one wonders how many changes Sakurai would feel comfortable about.

 

[Kirbeh]

Just to clarify on the rating thing, I'm not asking for Smash to be rated M/D. I personally just think the game could benefit from being bumped up to T/B (or C). If they're going to continually add more content from higher rated games, (including some of their own franchises) I don't think it's that unreasonable.

I'm sure they're more than capable of keeping up the balancing act they already have but it'd be nice if it were just less of an issue. If they allow themselves a little more wiggle room they could do more without having to worry about it.

To go back to my favorite example, look at a game like Marvel vs Capcom. I don't think anything in that game is super egregious. Smash already moved into that direction as is with additions like Bayo and Joker. If they stay within that sort of range they can more comfortably add content from games like Resident Evil or be able to have stuff like a Mai cameo or the cut Tharja trophy from 3DS.

 

[cashregister9]

This talk of age ratings had me check the ratings for the older games but It made me think of something more important

How would you rank the Box Arts of all the Smash Games and what would you like to see in the box art for the next game

Spoiler: A bunch of Hi-res images

64 (USA)

64 (PAL)

64 (JPN)

Melee (USA/PAL)

Melee (JPN)

Brawl (USA)

Brawl (JPN)

Brawl (PAL)

For Wii U

For 3DS

Ult

I'd personally go

Brawl (USA) = Brawl (JPN)
Ultimate
For 3DS
Melee (USA)
For Wii U
Melee (JPN)
64 (JPN)
Brawl (PAL)
64 (PAL)
64 (USA)

 

[NintenRob]

What is that PAL boxart for Brawl? That's definitely not what I had growing up.

Think I'll give it to Smash Wii U or 3DS. I do love the high quality renders Smash gives us and seeing them on the box looks great

 

[cashregister9]

What is that PAL boxart for Brawl? That's definitely not what I had growing up.

Think I'll give it to Smash Wii U or 3DS. I do love the high quality renders Smash gives us and seeing them on the box looks great

It was a limited edition copy of the game, not the standard copy.

 

[NintenRob]

Delete this please, Smashboards is dumb

 

[SPEN18]

This talk of age ratings had me check the ratings for the older games but It made me think of something more important

How would you rank the Box Arts of all the Smash Games and what would you like to see in the box art for the next game

Just going by the US ones, I like Brawl's the best. The characters bursting forth into the foreground, but with the off-center vanishing point. I like the title positioned at the top, too.

Smash 4's are good, too, though the Wii U one is a little too dead-on, and in-your-face with the title. The 3DS one works well for a handheld, but definitely gives off that handheld vibe; this format also wouldn't work as well for a less square box shape, so it's unique to the 3DS.

In Ult's box, I see what they were going for with the cascade format, but the light in the middle is too distracting, and the stylized banner artwork doesn't really work for me as front-of-the-box material.

64's and Melee's are showing their age more, as to be expected. I don't like the sideboxes on Melee's, and the sheared Smash logo is a little weird.

Overall, definitely way more important things to nitpick on than the boxart but it was fun to reflect on it

 

[HyperSomari64]

Turns into Toadette. Duh.

I thought you would say a Giga Bowser-like transformation called Queen Peach.

 

[Kirbeh]

This talk of age ratings had me check the ratings for the older games but It made me think of something more important

How would you rank the Box Arts of all the Smash Games and what would you like to see in the box art for the next game

Spoiler: A bunch of Hi-res images

64 (USA)


64 (PAL)


64 (JPN)


Melee (USA/PAL)


Melee (JPN)


Brawl (USA)


Brawl (JPN)


Brawl (PAL)


For Wii U


For 3DS


Ult

I'd personally go

Brawl (USA) = Brawl (JPN)
Ultimate
Melee (USA)
For 3DS
For Wii U
Brawl (PAL)
Melee (JPN)
64 (JPN)
64 (PAL)
64 (USA)

I was really conflicted on where to place Brawl since it is the game I grew up with, but ultimately, I really don't like the renders of Mario, Link and Pikachu even if I think the perspective is kinda neat.

As for what I'd like to see in the future, I know I keep bringing up MvC but I think it serves as a good example being another crossover series. And some of box art (and promo art) for the series is just really cool.

Spoiler

 

[DarthEnderX]

what would you like to see in the box art for the next game

This...but with a dozen or so more characters.

It's a fold-out.

 

[Slugma128]

The next Smash needs to offer something new, because we've had plenty of games now which build on the same gameplay premises.

 

[DarthEnderX]

The next Smash needs to offer something new

Yeah. More characters.

 

[Slugma128]

Yeah. More characters.

No, that's not good. Ultimate had way too many already, to the point where a lot of characters felt the same. They need to change the basic gameplay to something new in order to make Smash feel fresh again.

 

[NintenRob]

Ultimate had way too many already, to the point where a lot of characters felt the same

Like who? Sure there are a couple clones here and there but the unique characters far FAR outnumber the characters who could be called a clone of any sort with a lot of the newcomers in Ultimate being some of the most unique we've ever seen.

 

[Slugma128]

Like who? Sure there are a couple clones here and there but the unique characters far FAR outnumber the characters who could be called a clone of any sort with a lot of the newcomers in Ultimate being some of the most unique we've ever seen.

Byleth was the most obvious example. Way too many sword users.

 

[Chuderz]

So.... More FF7 characters for the next game?

I think it's pretty likely just looking the timetable for both the next Smash game and the final installment of the FF7 Remake trilogy. We have 4 years between Remake and Rebirth which is a very typical timeframe for a AAA game these days. So the final installment will probably come out around 2028.

The latest I could see Smash 6 coming out is for Ultimate's 10 year anniversary also in 2028. It'll probably come out before then but even then it'll mostly likely be in its DLC support phase if that's the case so regardless I don't think it's too far-fetched of a guess to think that it's extremely likely that the next Smash game, whatever form it takes between Ultimate DX or from-scratch reboot, will feature more FF7 characters in the game.

Past precedent has also established 2 FF7 characters representing the series as a whole in Smash.

I know a lot of FF fans would hate this but I could see this happening. At least I would be happy.

I'd love for Tifa and Barret both to get in and use Cloud's Limit system for their Special moves. I think they both deserve it the same. Tifa is one of the iconic video game heroines and Barret is one of the iconic video game black men both of which Smash needs more of but desperately for the latter. Aerith also deserves to be in but all her limit breaks are healing moves so I think she'd be better as an Assist Trophy. Maybe her AT could be a double edge sword in that she heals everyone regardless of who got to use her AT.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

It would strike me as a pity that a series as rich as Final Fantasy would only get the characters from same game so many times. I mean I know Square Enix seems intent on milking the VII teat given how popular it is, but I would hope Sakurai and Nintendo would at have at least some interest in other fighters. I mean I'm not even that big a fan of Tidus from FFX and I'd gladly take him over Tifa or Barret cause at least he would be something different.

 

[fogbadge]

It would strike me as a pity that a series as rich as Final Fantasy would only get the characters from same game so many times. I mean I know Square Enix seems intent on milking the VII teat given how popular it is, but I would hope Sakurai and Nintendo would at have at least some interest in other fighters. I mean I'm not even that big a fan of Tidus from FFX and I'd gladly take him over Tifa or Barret cause at least he would be something different.

same. but then I don’t like tifa or Barrett to begin with but that’s besides the point

 

[Gengar84]

I love Final Fantasy VII and it has one of my favorite character rosters of any game so I wouldn’t complain if we got another character. My favorite is Vincent Valentine but I feel he’s a bit less likely than some others like Tifa or Aerith. Tifa is probably the next most popular character on the roster and I do like her but she’s probably the least interesting moveset wise. I think Vincent would be really unique for Smash with his gun and monster transformations. Barrett, Cait Sith, and Red XIII would all be really unique too. Any of them would be great.

That said, I think I’d prefer someone from a different game for variety’s sake. My favorite Final Fantasy is FFIX followed by FFX and then FFVII at third. Anyone from either FFIX or X would be awesome. My favorites from each are Garnet and Lulu. Garnet would be really interesting since Smash doesn’t really have either a summoner or white mage yet so her abilities would be really unique for Smash. We do already have a few mage characters but Lulu has a few differences that would help her stand out. She would probably be something of a hybrid between Rosalina and Robin using elemental magic and controlling her Moogle doll.

As much as I loved Final Fantasy from that time period, I think I’d prefer someone from either Chrono Trigger or Octopath Traveller than anyone else from Final Fantasy. I just think it’s more interesting to introduce entirely new series to Smash. Both series have amazing music and a lot of interesting characters to choose from with unique gameplay. My picks for each are Magus and H’aanit both for design and moveset potential.

 

[superprincess]

I should've guessed that Smash fans would jump to this conclusion after Sephiroth, but "FF7 rep" isn't a requirement or a quota pick for every game like a Pokémon seemingly is. Sephiroth didn't get in because he's from FF7, he got in because he's super iconic in his own right. Someone like Tifa pales in comparison. She may be a FF7 character but her own recognizability isn't enough to justify her inclusion.

 

[fogbadge]

I should've guessed that Smash fans would jump to this conclusion after Sephiroth, but "FF7 rep" isn't a requirement or a quota pick for every game like a Pokémon seemingly is. Sephiroth didn't get in because he's from FF7, he got in because he's super iconic in his own right. Someone like Tifa pales in comparison. She may be a FF7 character but her own recognizability isn't enough to justify her inclusion.

that’s not what we’re saying. we’re saying if we get another FF character there’s a chance it’ll be a character from 7 cause SE are always pushing it

 

[Gengar84]

I should've guessed that Smash fans would jump to this conclusion after Sephiroth, but "FF7 rep" isn't a requirement or a quota pick for every game like a Pokémon seemingly is. Sephiroth didn't get in because he's from FF7, he got in because he's super iconic in his own right. Someone like Tifa pales in comparison. She may be a FF7 character but her own recognizability isn't enough to justify her inclusion.

I pretty much agree. I do feel like you might be underestimating Tifa’s popularity a bit but I think you’re right that we don’t really need a third FFVII character. Like I said, I really like the game so it’s not like I’d complain about another but I think there are more interesting options.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Black Mage would be a cool non-FF7 Final Fantasy character

 

[Mamboo07]

Black Mage would be a cool non-FF7 Final Fantasy character

or Vivi himself if you want someone to represent mage stuff.