Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[SPEN18]

I want MC Ballyhoo as a Mario Party rep. Like, I want him to basically be the physical embodiment of Mario Party into a fighting game character, with his moveset mainly emphasizing mindgames, fake-outs, and some luck. If we ever got a Mario Party rep I'd want him out of all the hosts, he's got a lovable and bombastic personality and energy to him. It'd be super cool to see him pulling tricks on the battlefield, and I'd love it if they gave him a little extra magician flair for his Smash interpretation (pulling something out of his hat, using a chain of scarves he pulls from his sleeve, etc).

There's a few notable problems with his chances; namely, he has to fight an uphill battle against every other Mario character they could add, which is a lot. This is made worse by the fact that he only physically appears in one game. But... man, I think a Mario Party rep in Smash would be so fun. I don't want them to designate representation of that series to Waluigi's down special or whatever.

I've entertained this idea before. The issue is, as you say, he's pretty outranked in terms of Mario characters we could get, and the fact that he only appears in a single MP game makes him less fitting as a "Mario Party rep." But if we're going for a dedicated rep for one of Mario's spinoff series, well, at least I can say I'd personally take him over Geno.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I'd prefer DJ Hallyboo.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

I do lament that Jin (or any of the Wonder Boy adjacent protagonists) aren't terribly likely.

The games have done solid if not spectacularly numbers and even though the recent Monster Boy game was a wonderful Metroidvania title, it fell under the radar compared to others of its type. Even the obvious hook of animal transformations and/or abilities from his animal forms is a novelty that would probably be incorporated by his counterpart that shares many similar elements and seems more likely to be a fighter; Shantae.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I'd prefer DJ Hallyboo.

But that would require piracy, and piracy... is NO PARTY!

(I don't care that people hate FNF, this song is WAY better than it has ANY right to be...)

 

[Gorgonzales]

MC Ballyhoo sucks.

you can't do this to me, man! he's objectively the best host because Mario Party 8 is the one I grew up on of his own individual merits as a character!

 

[DarthEnderX]

are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

I'd love to see:

Garrett [Thief]
Corvo Attano [Dishonored]
Adam Jensen [Deus Ex]
Sam Fisher [Splinter Cell]

But I don't think any of them have a reasonable shot.

No disrespect, but as a massive SF fan, if we got a third character from the series' wide slate of iconic and/or popular characters and it was a third shoto (hell, not even someone like Sakura, another full-on Karate Man - to put it in rudimentary terms), I would be incredibly disappointed

If the 3rd SF character isn't Bison or Chun Li, I riot.

I really just can't take any argument for another Street Fighter character who isn't Chun-Li seriously.

Counterpoint: Bison.

3 characters into a series, it's villain-time! Not QUITE as iconic as Chun. But almost.

Next is Juri-Han.

Juri is a great pick, but I don't see her getting in before Chun Li. She's the counter-Chun.

She'd be my choice for 5th SF character.

Call it a hunch, but I don't think a secondary character from a third-party series would preclude another character owned by the same company but from a new series getting into Smash at the same time.

Seems like a safe bet. We got Sephiroth, Hero and Sora all in the same game.

 

[Master Hero Sock-on-Rye]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

The hardest part is that, barring non-gaming characters, no one is truly off the table. However, I narrowed it down to five:

1. Q*Bert - If we DID get a Sony rep, it'll come from the PlayStation. And yet, this blorbo has actual Nintendo history on his snout.
2. Muddy Mole (Mole Mania) - Even in the Retro Nintendo category, Muddy is outmatched by the likes of Takamaru and Mach Rider.
3. Mai Shiranui (Fatal Fury / King of Fighters) - The queen of "throwing your vote away" at this point. As obligatory as Sonamy fanfiction.
4. Frisk (Undertale) - I happen to be a "protagonists first" kind of speculator, and yet even I think Sans will get in over the actual main character.
5. Carmen Sandiego - Yes, she's a video game character. Yes, she's more known for the TV shows. Yes, her first cartoon is on par with Mario and Sonic's syndicated offerings.

If non-gaming characters were allowed, all I'd know is Mai and Frisk would be left off the list.

 

[fogbadge]

Sure, adding like, Dante doesn't mean Chun-Li can't also be added later or vice versa.

well how do we block him? i mean that's good

 

[BritishGuy54]

well how do we block him? i mean that's good

Block Dante from joining? I think the ESRB and other age rating organisations can do that just fine next game if they do wish.

 

[RileyXY1]

Call it a hunch, but I don't think a secondary character from a third-party series would preclude another character owned by the same company but from a new series getting into Smash at the same time.

It just seems odd for Sakurai to theoretically go "Well, I guess I can't include Bomberman because I'm adding Alucard instead" or "No Chun-Li because we already added Leon".

Square Enix already proved that wrong as they gave Final Fantasy a second character in Sephiroth despite Hero being added earlier. So this is a total non-argument.

 

[Gengar84]

I don’t like to look at characters as company reps. Besides ease of negotiating, I don’t think the company that owns the character should play too much a factor in the decision. For example, if they decided to add Leon, Chun-Li, and Zero from Capcom, I don’t think there’s any obligation to add the same number from SNK.

 

[JOJONumber691]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot? Truthfully, a lot of my most wanted characters probably fit this category but I think Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy is the most obvious one for me. Even though he’s my favorite game character, he’s a supporting character from a relatively small PS2 JRPG that’s owned by Sony and has never made another appearance. Pretty much everyone else on my list I can at least make some kind of argument for but I’ve got nothing for Zegram beyond “He’s cool and I like him”, which doesn’t get you very far lol.

I voted for K. Rool for the Smash 4 ballot but he wasn’t my absolute favorite character ever. I just really loved the SNES DKC games and liked him as a character too. I probably would have voted for Sephiroth over him if I actually thought he had a realistic chance but that was before even Cloud’s reveal. I got super lucky getting both my ballot pick and someone I actually wanted even more so I can accept not getting anyone else on my list if it comes to that.

Literally all of my Most Wanted are never happening. Minerva? Irrelevant as all hell from a Series that only likes Anime Swordboys. Primarina? She wasn’t even CONSIDERED! V1? Not on a Nintendo Console and an Indie Character so literally impossible. Marina Liteyears? Irrelevant, Obscure, and owned by Square. Shez? From a Spin-off. Literally none of the characters I actually want will ever get in. At least Sora was a pleasant surprise.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I got a question; has Nintendo ever created a main character that kind of references them in general?

Not a main character, but 9-Volt could fit this bill.

 

[RileyXY1]

Not a main character, but 9-Volt could fit this bill.

Yeah. 9-Volt's entire character is that he is a massive superfan of Nintendo and their products. His microgames in the series are usually references to Nintendo's back catalog.

 

[toonito]

got this from r/SmashBrosUltimate subreddit

Fighter Pass but with Fighting Game characters

What other fighting game characters would you like to see in Smash?

old.reddit.com

for Tekken: Jin or Yoshimitsu over Heihachi


other than that change this would be a dream pass for me

 

[Nabbitfan730]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

Honey the Cat, Black Mage, Flare from Custom Robo,, Andross, Hex Maniac, Android 21. Polygon Man. Video Game-only


Non-Video Games: Captain Marvelous, General Grevious, Lloyd, Master Asia, Star-Saber, Megatron

 

[DarthEnderX]

Fighter Pass but with Fighting Game characters

What other fighting game characters would you like to see in Smash?

old.reddit.com

1. Ryu Hayabusa [Dead Or Alive]
2. Morrigan [Darkstalkers]
3. Nightmare [SoulCalibur]
4. Nakoruru [Samurai Shodown]
5. Sol Badguy [Guilty Gear]
6. Scorpion [Mortal Kombat]

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Android 21

Just as ineligible as your list below.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Just as ineligible as your list below.

This.

21 may have debuted in a video game, but she's still a Dragon Ball character. And Dragon Ball isn't a video game franchise.

 

[RileyXY1]

This.

21 may have debuted in a video game, but she's still a Dragon Ball character. And Dragon Ball isn't a video game franchise.

I still count her as a video game character regardless. For me it’s based on the medium the character themselves debuted in, not the franchise itself.

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Fighter Pass but with Fighting Game characters

What other fighting game characters would you like to see in Smash?

old.reddit.com

I'm going for new franchises for this one.
Scorpion and Sub Zero as an Echo Fighter (Mortal Kombat)
Fulgore (Killer Instinct)
Nightmare (Soul Calibur)
Ryu Hayabusa (Dead or Alive mixed with Ninja Gaiden, his home series)
Sol Badguy (Guilty Gear)

 

[Shinuto]

Literally all of my Most Wanted are never happening. Minerva? Irrelevant as all hell from a Series that only likes Anime Swordboys. Primarina? She wasn’t even CONSIDERED! V1? Not on a Nintendo Console and an Indie Character so literally impossible. Marina Liteyears? Irrelevant, Obscure, and owned by Square. Shez? From a Spin-off. Literally none of the characters I actually want will ever get in. At least Sora was a pleasant surprise.

Marina support is awesome and hey she's in Smash Remix which is professional quality imo

 

[dream1ng]

The thing about Android 21 is what's the ****ing point? Even if we assume she'd be eligible, the point of the inclusion is to bypass the restrictions on Dragon Ball, not to add a character people would want. Because if you're going to add a DB character, you obviously add Goku.

If the only means of eligibility are to add a video game original character who isn't part of the actual main cast, but is the only one technically eligible... just don't add the character. You don't need a Dragon Ball character. And if you're going to add one, add Goku. That's who people want. He's the MC.

It goes against the spirit of Smash. Not just in that the IP isn't from gaming, but that you're adding, all things considered, a minor character to represent a very big franchise. It's like adding Starkiller from Star Wars. If you're going to add a SW character, do Vader or Luke or Yoda or someone... not... Starkiller.

Either change the restrictions, or don't bother. Because adding a character for "well technically it counts", despite not being prominent in the series as a whole is prioritizing getting around a loophole above what the result would actually be.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The thing about Android 21 is what's the ****ing point? Even if we assume she'd be eligible, the point of the inclusion is to bypass the restrictions on Dragon Ball, not to add a character people would want. Because if you're going to add a DB character, you obviously add Goku.

If the only means of eligibility are to add a video game original character who isn't part of the actual main cast, but is the only one technically eligible... just don't add the character. You don't need a Dragon Ball character. And if you're going to add one, add Goku. That's who people want. He's the MC.

It goes against the spirit of Smash. Not just in that the IP isn't from gaming, but that you're adding, all things considered, a minor character to represent a very big franchise. It's like adding Starkiller from Star Wars. If you're going to add a SW character, do Vader or Luke or Yoda or someone... not... Starkiller.

Either change the restrictions, or don't bother. Because adding a character for "well technically it counts", despite not being prominent in the series as a whole is prioritizing getting around a loophole above what the result would actually be.

There's also the fact that even if we go with the idea that "she's from a video game so she's eligible", then....

....what the **** would she even come with?
We see from Sora that he came with content specifically from Kingdom Hearts and none of Disney's original properties within it. Even Donald and Goofy, who are by his side the entire series, are completely left out.

With that in mind, how do you represent FighterZ with ONLY 21 and her variants since literally everyone else and almost everything else isn't original to FighterZ? You can't even have Goku here as a Spirit for the same reason he wasn't made into a fighter in the first place.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

Got a question for the big Xenoblade buffs. How would you feel if Matthew was the XBC3 rep in the next game rather than Noah, Mio, or both?

 

[Perkilator]

Got a question for the big Xenoblade buffs. How would you feel if Matthew was the XBC3 rep in the next game rather than Noah, Mio, or both?

I’ve only played base XBC3 but I’d greatly prefer Noah and Mio.

 

[Wonder Smash]

The thing about Android 21 is what's the ****ing point? Even if we assume she'd be eligible, the point of the inclusion is to bypass the restrictions on Dragon Ball, not to add a character people would want. Because if you're going to add a DB character, you obviously add Goku.

If the only means of eligibility are to add a video game original character who isn't part of the actual main cast, but is the only one technically eligible... just don't add the character. You don't need a Dragon Ball character. And if you're going to add one, add Goku. That's who people want. He's the MC.

It goes against the spirit of Smash. Not just in that the IP isn't from gaming, but that you're adding, all things considered, a minor character to represent a very big franchise. It's like adding Starkiller from Star Wars. If you're going to add a SW character, do Vader or Luke or Yoda or someone... not... Starkiller.

Either change the restrictions, or don't bother. Because adding a character for "well technically it counts", despite not being prominent in the series as a whole is prioritizing getting around a loophole above what the result would actually be.

To be fair, that was the point of post; to list characters that have such low chances that voting for them is almost pointless.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Got a question for the big Xenoblade buffs. How would you feel if Matthew was the XBC3 rep in the next game rather than Noah, Mio, or both?

I'd be very confused why a DLC got more billing than the base game.

 

[NintenRob]

Matthew instead of Noah and Mio would be interesting.

Generally speaking, I prefer Noah and Mio. But I do think they'd be extremely difficult to implement well. You'd likely have to leave out one them entirely which means Ouroburos would likely be left out. Noah is the main character but as another Sword user, he'd be less appealing than Mio. Mio doesn't have a sword but that also means no potential Being interesting with Lucky 7. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is complicated and simplifying that down to work in Smash may be too much. (Though maybe they could be alts of each other, with the main moveset gimmick being they attack using the weapons of the party members since any character can be any class)


With Matthew. It's more cut and dry. He doesn't have any of the baggage of Ouroburos, Lucky 7, class switching, being paired up. You can do him justice quite easily. On top of that, his weapon of choice are gauntlets. Which while we have a boxer, feels more interesting than a swordie. So I could genuinely see them going with Matthew over Noah and Mio the same way they moved past Rex.

 

[fogbadge]

There's also the fact that even if we go with the idea that "she's from a video game so she's eligible", then....

....what the **** would she even come with?
We see from Sora that he came with content specifically from Kingdom Hearts and none of Disney's original properties within it. Even Donald and Goofy, who are by his side the entire series, are completely left out.

With that in mind, how do you represent FighterZ with ONLY 21 and her variants since literally everyone else and almost everything else isn't original to FighterZ? You can't even have Goku here as a Spirit for the same reason he wasn't made into a fighter in the first place.

well donald and goofy would required separate licensing anyway

Got a question for the big Xenoblade buffs. How would you feel if Matthew was the XBC3 rep in the next game rather than Noah, Mio, or both?

wouldn't surprise me

I'd be very confused why a DLC got more billing than the base game.

it's be like getting the deuteragonist over the protagonist

 

[cashregister9]

Got a question for the big Xenoblade buffs. How would you feel if Matthew was the XBC3 rep in the next game rather than Noah, Mio, or both?

I do really like Matthew but I would rather have Noah and Mio. I just think you could do more interesting things with them

 

[BritishGuy54]

Got a question for the big Xenoblade buffs. How would you feel if Matthew was the XBC3 rep in the next game rather than Noah, Mio, or both?

I’d prefer Noah or XC3 Rex, but I would certainly be feeling full of beans.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

The thing about Android 21 is what's the ****ing point? Even if we assume she'd be eligible, the point of the inclusion is to bypass the restrictions on Dragon Ball, not to add a character people would want. Because if you're going to add a DB character, you obviously add Goku.

Mate, that was the point. The Question was who you vote for that has the least chance. I think you should read first before guns blazing.

Also you're going to add a DB character, you add the next best thing. Goku is only the obvious pick if restrictions barred for entry, if not you go next.
Pretty sure the rule is the Character has originate from Video Game, not the IPs itself so she still eligible

But that you're adding, all things considered, a minor character to represent a very big franchise.

This is literally the Piranha Plant argument. Yeah, in the series both are seen as minor in the series but stand out very well outside it just simply from the status of series they came. She was exclusive flagship character and main villain for FighterZ. Game sold 10 million. I wager easily she still more recognizable than most roster for those reason alone despite the standing of her series. Minor doesn't much here.

There's also the fact that even if we go with the idea that "she's from a video game so she's eligible", then....

....what the **** would she even come with?

She could easily represent Video Game side of Dragon Ball. Xenoverse, Heroes, FighterZ. Like Sora, the representation could come from characters and elements exclusive from the games. Time Patrol, Demigra, Towa, Mira, Chronoa etc

 

[HyperSomari64]

She could easily represent Video Game side of Dragon Ball. Xenoverse, Heroes, FighterZ. Like Sora, the representation could come from characters and elements exclusive from the games. Time Patrol, Demigra, Towa, Mira, Chronoa etc

Sorry for being a tiny mean, but that's like if the Imperfects from Marvel Nemesis joined Smash. Granted, they are owned by EA, but the creatures are heavily associated with Marvel.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The thing with PP is it was added well after multiple Mario characters were in. The situation isn't very analogous when we're talking about the first DB character. It has to be pretty much Goku because he's the core protagonist of the franchise.

Of course, yeah, least chance makes sense in that context.

That said, when it comes to more odd ones like getting Min Min instead of Spring Man(or Ribbon Girl), that had unique context too. There was no actual core protagonist, and popularity won out on that one. Tekken got one of its major protagonists too, so it's not like it's an odd thing in the end.

 

[Slime Scholar]

it's be like getting the deuteragonist over the protagonist

Which has happened before, but I don't think a DLC-exclusive character is really in the same ballpark.

We don't have figures for Xenoblade 3 specifically, but as a general rule, the percentage of players who buy a game and then go on to buy its DLC is around 10%-20%. This can vary, and it's very possible that a series with such a core, dedicated fanbase like XC has a higher attach rate, but would it make sense to give Matthew the spotlight in a crossover when it's likely that well under half of XC3 players even played his story?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

Sorry for being a tiny mean, but that's like if the Imperfects from Marvel Nemesis joined Smash. Granted, they are owned by EA, but the creatures are heavily associated with Marvel.

I don't see the issue here. If he originated from a game, he should be eligible. Whether he is likely or not though is a different debate.

he situation isn't very analogous when we're talking about the first DB character. It has to be pretty much Goku because he's the core protagonist of the franchise.

It doesn't have to be necessarily. Yeah, he is the best choice but he's barred from entry outright. 21 has a better chance

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It doesn't have to be necessarily. Yeah, he is the best choice but he's barred from entry outright. 21 has a better chance

She doesn't, actually. She has zero chances realistically because she's a minor character. She would never get in over Goku. She would make for a pretty good Spirit or something, if they wanted to focus on the more game original universe, though. She doesn't make a very good representation of the games either, as they are more or less just following Goku's story. If they were legitimately more varied and making their own stories, this would have a bit more merit(not enough, though maybe for a second character, but there's still better choices).

Simply put, her franchise origins blatantly matters more than just her origins.

Though I will note that Starkiller, unlike Android 21, was actually decently promoted enough for recognizability. He became a pretty important character in his games. Android 21 isn't in the same ballpark of that(that doesn't mean he's a good choice, though. He definitely pales in comparison to Vader, Yoda, or even Luke or Han Solo. The original trilogy(Episodes 4 - 6) is extremely iconic fills with tons of notable characters. Even those who don't last that long).

 

[CommanderZaktan]

Matthew instead of Noah and Mio would be interesting.

Generally speaking, I prefer Noah and Mio. But I do think they'd be extremely difficult to implement well. You'd likely have to leave out one them entirely which means Ouroburos would likely be left out. Noah is the main character but as another Sword user, he'd be less appealing than Mio. Mio doesn't have a sword but that also means no potential Being interesting with Lucky 7. Xenoblade Chronicles 3 is complicated and simplifying that down to work in Smash may be too much. (Though maybe they could be alts of each other, with the main moveset gimmick being they attack using the weapons of the party members since any character can be any class)


With Matthew. It's more cut and dry. He doesn't have any of the baggage of Ouroburos, Lucky 7, class switching, being paired up. You can do him justice quite easily. On top of that, his weapon of choice are gauntlets. Which while we have a boxer, feels more interesting than a swordie. So I could genuinely see them going with Matthew over Noah and Mio the same way they moved past Rex.

I did say that Mio would be an echo to Noah when it comes to weapon class switching.

 

[Nabbitfan730]

She doesn't, actually. She has zero chances realistically because she's a minor character. She would never get in over Goku.

Originating from a game automatically makes her a better chance by default regardless if Goku makes a better choice on paper. If they want to represent Dragon Ball and whilst keeping the non-video game rule intact. She would be frontrunner. DB Video Games are popular enough on their own warrant it

If they were legitimately more varied and making their own stories, this would have a bit more merit(not enough, though maybe for a second character, but there's still better choices).

FighterZ has an original story. She was literally created for an original scenario. In fact most of recent DB games so far like Heroes and Xenoverse have different stories and continuity from the main series. Goku isn't really a major character of most of them.

Though I will note that Starkiller, unlike Android 21, was actually decently promoted enough for recognizability. He became a pretty important character in his games. Android 21 isn't in the same ballpark of that

Again, She is main villian and flagship character of FighterZ. She isn't some enemy mook. How is that not the same ballpark as StarKiller?