Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

Ninten and Ness got the name reference but I don't think they have anything else.

The got the soul of Nintendo!

It's unlikely, but if we got another Square character I'd like it to be a Dragon Quest Slime.

Seems like an obvious AT choice if Hero is base game.

 

[Noipoi]

Diddy represented Nintendo and Dixie represented Rare, they both embodied the partnership.

 

[Gengar84]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot? Truthfully, a lot of my most wanted characters probably fit this category but I think Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy is the most obvious one for me. Even though he’s my favorite game character, he’s a supporting character from a relatively small PS2 JRPG that’s owned by Sony and has never made another appearance. Pretty much everyone else on my list I can at least make some kind of argument for but I’ve got nothing for Zegram beyond “He’s cool and I like him”, which doesn’t get you very far lol.

I voted for K. Rool for the Smash 4 ballot but he wasn’t my absolute favorite character ever. I just really loved the SNES DKC games and liked him as a character too. I probably would have voted for Sephiroth over him if I actually thought he had a realistic chance but that was before even Cloud’s reveal. I got super lucky getting both my ballot pick and someone I actually wanted even more so I can accept not getting anyone else on my list if it comes to that.

 

[Louie G.]

On the flip side of Zero I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

Unfortunately, at least right now, I don't think tossing a vote toward a Rhythm Heaven character would do much of anything. Arle might stand a chance if the Japanese voting pool pulls through, but RH just doesn't have the hype behind it right now and doesn't have a centralized character that everyone will agree to back. Quite frankly though, those are two of the only characters I would have any inclination to support in a new Ballot. Maybe Sans too? He would probably perform pretty well.

Bottom line, most of my votes would be "wastes". I'm not that enamored by our current slate of popular fan requests, at least compared to Smash 4 where K. Rool and Ridley were two of my most wanted characters anyway. I voted for K. Rool, and I also voted for Chorus Kids. Naturally one of those felt a lot more successful than the other.

 

[cashregister9]

It's unlikely, but if we got another Square character I'd like it to be a Dragon Quest Slime. Sakurai did mention he was prepared to use them if he couldn't get permission for the Hero.

I kinda like the idea of a composite Villain character with characters like Mordegon, Dhoulmagus, Dragonlord and Zoma as the alts.

Or just straight up like, Psaro or someone like that.

 

[Gengar84]

I kinda like the idea of a composite Villain character with characters like Mordegon, Dhoulmagus, Dragonlord and Zoma as the alts.

Or just straight up like, Psaro or someone like that.

I’ve only played Dragon Quest VIII and XI. Do those villains have relatively similar fighting styles and frames that they could work as alts? I do love Psaro’s design so he’s probably my pick for a Dragon Quest villain despite my only experience with the character being the demo of Dragon Quest Monsters on the Switch.

 

[7NATOR]

My thoughts on the topics discussed

-For me, 2B is a matter of When and Not if she's getting in Smash. I do think she does have everything going for her getting into Smash.

She's Popular both in West and Japan, Iconic Design, Square is already on board, she has a history of being in Crossovers already, including one Bandai Namco already worked on with Soul Calibur 6, Her Creator is definitely on Board, Sakurai is familiar with the game and Series, and She's Attractive (we see with Pyra/Mythra that helps).

but the Main thing is if she's Base game or DLC. I actually Imagine she'd be DLC if we go off history of her Crossovers, but also if they are Bringing back Cloud, Sephiroth, and Hero in Base, 2B is a Popular character to get DLC Profits off of

-Geno I think is Definitely coming next game in the base roster. Even when there was barely any Square content in the base game, Geno was still able to be a (Legendary) Spirit in the game along with Mallow. With the Remake, Geno is now not as unknown to a General audience.

-Another Final Fantasy character from a game that's not 7 I don't think is an unviable option, quite the opposite in fact. 7 might be the most Iconic, but other games in the franchises enjoy huge popularity as well. In particular in Japan, X, XIV, and 6 are popular titles there. I don't know if it's likely, but it's an option

-On Zero, While theoretically he should be out-Classed in terms of Priority for the Next Capcom Character compared to the Big Franchises in Resident Evil and Monster Hunter, the New Niches to be added with Ace Attorney, the Fan Requested Dante from Devil May Cry and the Aforementioned Ace Attorney Phoenix Wright, and the Iconic First Lady of Fighting Chun-Li, I actually think he has one main thing over them all

and that in terms of actual Smash Fighter Implementation, he's probably the best Choice to go with. You See, Zero is an Anime Sword Fighter Archetype with his Z-Saber. He does have his other Weapons like his Z Buster, along with his Mega Man Zero Incarnation having Chain Rods and Spears, and such, but his Main weapon is the Z-Saber, but the thing is that People love Anime Sword Fighters, especially if they are Simple to use ,Cool, Flashy at the same time, and I feel Zero would be all of these things. He'd probably be more simple to use than Mega Man himself in this game, and that's a good thing in my Opinion

with other Capcom Characters, I Feel like there would be more Complications when it comes to actually Implementing them in the game. I think that's why Resident Evil Especially, along with Monster Hunter, with these Franchises being the biggest Japanese Franchises left in terms of Sales, Global popularity, Iconic status, Relevancy, and in Resident Evil's case, New genre, are not in the game yet because there seems to be barriers to actually adding them in as a fighter. Now I think this new game could be the time to rectify that like how Ultimate did that same thing with Tekken, but I think of all the Capcom characters, especially in base roster, Zero would be the easiest to Add in my Opinion


-Also, Part of me is thinking that the Actual most likely character to Come from Capcom would actually be Akuma. We already have Ryu and Ken as a Base to use, but Akuma himself is really popular, Iconic, and in the Actual Street Fighter games, is usually Top 2-5 in usage because people love Shotos, and Akuma is the "Evil, Edgy" shoto. I know when I play Street Fighter Akuma is one of my most played characters. Now in Smash Shotos are Weird to use, especially for Casuals, but I think because Akuma typically has more Aerial options in Street Fighter already, he probably wouldn't be as Awkward

 

[Gengar84]

Unfortunately, at least right now, I don't think tossing a vote toward a Rhythm Heaven character would do much of anything. Arle might stand a chance if the Japanese voting pool pulls through, but RH just doesn't have the hype behind it right now and doesn't have a centralized character that everyone will agree to back. Quite frankly though, those are two of the only characters I would have any inclination to support in a new Ballot. Maybe Sans too? He would probably perform pretty well.

Bottom line, most of my votes would be "wastes". I'm not that enamored by our current slate of popular fan requests, at least compared to Smash 4 where K. Rool and Ridley were two of my most wanted characters anyway. I voted for K. Rool, and I also voted for Chorus Kids. Naturally one of those felt a lot more successful than the other.

I feel you. I’m in the same position. On the plus side, we get even more hyped if we do somehow get one of our out there favorites. It’s also harder to get let down if I don’t get any of them because I don’t have super high expectations. There are definitely some benefits to having favorites that are generally seen as less popular or likely.

 

[cashregister9]

I’ve only played Dragon Quest VIII and XI. Do those villains have relatively similar fighting styles and frames that they could work as alts? I do love Psaro’s design so he’s probably my pick for a Dragon Quest villain despite my only experience with the character being the demo of Dragon Quest Monsters on the Switch.

Their frames are much less similar than with Hero but you could stretch it enough to work.

In terms of gameplay much like hero they could all be unique but they also fill a similar archetype to the point where you could give them a composite moveset and it could feasibly fit for all 4

Except Psaro, he would be pretty unique.

 

[Speed Weed]

Also, Part of me is thinking that the Actual most likely character to Come from Capcom would actually be Akuma. We already have Ryu and Ken as a Base to use, but Akuma himself is really popular, Iconic, and in the Actual Street Fighter games, is usually Top 2-5 in usage because people love Shotos, and Akuma is the "Evil, Edgy" shoto. I know when I play Street Fighter Akuma is one of my most played characters. Now in Smash Shotos are Weird to use, especially for Casuals, but I think because Akuma typically has more Aerial options in Street Fighter already, he probably wouldn't be as Awkward

No disrespect, but as a massive SF fan, if we got a third character from the series' wide slate of iconic and/or popular characters and it was a third shoto (hell, not even someone like Sakura, another full-on Karate Man - to put it in rudimentary terms), I would be incredibly disappointed

 

[Louie G.]

I really just can't take any argument for another Street Fighter character who isn't Chun-Li seriously. I try to be open minded, but I really can't wrap my head around that possibility. One of those cases of "it could happen but why would it happen." I can't really even summarize the logic behind this in actual words, it's just an understood common sense founded in the way Smash operates and Street Fighter's very clear priorities.

She is arguably the most popular character in the series, she's next to Ryu in nearly every piece of promo or crossover material, she is utilized frequently as Street Fighter's co lead and second most important character. Going with anyone else would feel very much like a "just 'cuz" scenario that prioritizes being different over the sensible choice, but sometimes the obvious less thrilling answer is just the right answer.

 

[AreJay25]

Chun-Li is in Fortnite

Chun-Li is a Power Ranger

Chun-Li had a song named after her

She's literally called "The First Lady of Fighting Games"

There's no chance Street Fighter gets any other character lmao

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

The funny thing with Chun Li is that I think she actually falls into the Dixie Kong/BWD category of being such the obvious next pick from their franchise that further conversation/guesswork is a bit bottlenecked because the perceived likelihood of their inclusion is pretty much unavoidable.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Honestly the fact that Ryu and Ken are based on their incarnations from a game where Akuma only exists in secret OP boss form should be enough proof that Akuma...is not a hard lock for the third Street Fighter. Not only do they have to spend time nerfing him, but unlike Ken whose rules on how to differentiate him from Ryu were fully established by ST-weaker Hadouken, stronger Shoryuken, multi-hit Tatsumaki, command normals are kicks instead of punches, back throw has him roll back further-that isn't the case for Akuma. Partially because some of those differences Akuma gained later are to help him not be broken as a playable character, and then there are some that are unique moves like the Demon Flip.

 

[Gengar84]

I think it’s going to be Chun-Li if anyone too but I’ll try to make a case for a couple others.

First up is Guile. He was the main protagonist of the first Street Fighter movie and has a very different fighting style compared to Ryu and Ken being a charge character. Guile’s fighting style is pretty iconic and I believe that’s part of the reason he was chosen as an assist trophy over Chun-Li.The fact that he was the one chosen for that role has to count for something.

Next is Juri-Han. I think she’s proven to be a very popular character in her own right, possibly the most popular new character since Street Fighter IV. I don’t have any exact numbers to back that up, that’s just the vibe I’m getting. Juri has a really cool design and a fun personality that could work great in Smash. I think she’d be a cool way to bring in content from the more recent games. To me, her and Chun-Li are like comparing Meowscarada to Gengar. Gengar is probably still the more generally recognized and popular character of the two and has been promoted in every mainline game but Meowscarada is great to show off the newer games rather than another character from the original entry in the series.

In the end, I still think Chun-Li is the most likely option but I don’t believe that she’s the only one. I feel like there are at least some valid reasons to go with someone else. M. Bison is another option that could work if they wanted a villain for the series and Cammy is very popular as well.

 

[cashregister9]

We are all wrong

The answer is in front of us

 

[smashkirby]

I got a question; has Nintendo ever created a main character that kind of references them in general?

Examples like Yuki and Ai from Neo Geo Battle Coliseum.

Or a character like Taro Sega from Segagaga.

Now that you mention it, I do find it a bit interesting that Nintendo of Japan HASN'T created a MAJOR character with such a concept in mind. Outside of Japan, though?

Yeah, I'd say that Nester is probably the closest Nintendo has to such a character.

I meant to say this earlier but it slipped: seeing Another Code and Endless Ocean come back with Nintendo as the publisher makes it more curious that they didn't publish syn Sophia's Fashion Dreamer and give it the Style Savvy branding. Was already curious, now more so, especially as Style Savvy was doing better numbers than Another Code or Endless Ocean back in the Wii/DS era.

Oh, wow... You actually make a REALLY good point about that. Heck, Style Savvy is one of Nintendo's more niche IPs, and it has 4 games under its belt.

What's more, I believe it was rumored shortly after the Switch was first revealed that we were even set to get Style Savvy 5 for the 3DS, but its development got moved to the Switch once it became clear that the former was all but dead by late 2016/early 2017 or so.

Still, I do feel like it should be noted that the series began to dwindle in sales after the second game, though. Honestly, I can't deny that I've always thought that part of why the very first game (on the DS) just barely pushed past the 1 million mark was because Nintendo managed get Beyonce to promote it (Heck, that's probably why even Rhythm Heaven got a pretty good start in the West too).

If I may say so, I've always thought that maybe Nintendo could have gotten someone like Taylor Swift to promote the 4th game (I'm pretty sure she was still pretty huge in 2017). It might be a coincidence, but one of the 'main girls' of that game straight-up looks like Swift in video game form (with a bit of Blake Lively and Karlie Kloss thrown in for good measure).

Heck, she's even the singer for the game's opening theme as well, so maybe the resemblance isn't a coincidence...

I really just can't take any argument for another Street Fighter character who isn't Chun-Li seriously. I try to be open minded, but I really can't wrap my head around that possibility. One of those cases of "it could happen but why would it happen." I can't really even summarize the logic behind this in actual words, it's just an understood common sense founded in the way Smash operates and Street Fighter's very clear priorities.

She is arguably the most popular character in the series, she's next to Ryu in nearly every piece of promo or crossover material, she is utilized frequently as Street Fighter's co lead and second most important character. Going with anyone else would feel very much like a "just 'cuz" scenario that prioritizes being different over the sensible choice, but sometimes the obvious less thrilling answer is just the right answer.

No joke. Literally, the ONLY S.F. character I could picture looking PLAUSIBLE for Smash outside of Chun-Li is MAYBE Sakura Kasugano and even THEN...

 

[BuckleyTim]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

I've already talked about a non-Gen X / Scream Tail echo pokemon pick enough, so I'm just gonna throw out a few favorites that are never happening for reasons:

Marina Liteyears: she's one of my most wanted in terms of assist trophies (since i'm sure as hell not getting her as a character). I'll just have to let Smash Remix quench my desires in that deparment since I just doubt we're getting Enix deep cuts in the next game.

Phoenix Wright: dude's a distant sixth in line in the capcom hierarchy, and that's me being very generous off the heels of a long awaited re-release. Dante, Monster Hunter, more SF... there's just too much for him to contend with, and since he's the only major reoccuring capcom property right now with nothing in Smash... I just don't have much hope for them.

Klonoa: another dream assist trophy at the very least, but ehhhhhh Namco also has a lot more that is more 'important' than him (also including the Bandai part if Digimon stands a ghost of a chance).

Bonk: lmao konami hates acknowledging any part of hudson that isn't bomberman. Turbografx will have to wait for the perfect day...

But at the end of the day I honestly see no reason not to throw a vote or two towards characters that don't have a big base. Issac, Geno, doomguy etc. are all going to have their fanbases show up hardcore if a ballot happened again (Which it won't but its fun to dream). I might as well stunt for say, Heavy Weapons Guy/ Gordon Freeman because I don't see another way I could really make my desires known all that much.

 

[7NATOR]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot? Truthfully, a lot of my most wanted characters probably fit this category but I think Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy is the most obvious one for me. Even though he’s my favorite game character, he’s a supporting character from a relatively small PS2 JRPG that’s owned by Sony and has never made another appearance. Pretty much everyone else on my list I can at least make some kind of argument for but I’ve got nothing for Zegram beyond “He’s cool and I like him”, which doesn’t get you very far lol.

I voted for K. Rool for the Smash 4 ballot but he wasn’t my absolute favorite character ever. I just really loved the SNES DKC games and liked him as a character too. I probably would have voted for Sephiroth over him if I actually thought he had a realistic chance but that was before even Cloud’s reveal. I got super lucky getting both my ballot pick and someone I actually wanted even more so I can accept not getting anyone else on my list if it comes to that.

Keeping it to Video Game Characters only, As someone that played alot of Mugen and KOF Wing in the past, I would be down for Orochi (King of Fighters) being playable. He'd be broken though, among other reasons he's not viable

Also as someone that likes Mortal Kombat, I'd prefer if Noob Got in over anyone else. He's been the one I've played as if he's in the game. The Shadow Powers, cloning, and his Brutality, along with his cool designs are just too much. He's actually the main reason I got MK11 because if he wasn't in that game I wouldn't have bothered.

For Tekken, Even before Kazuya got in, I've said that Kazuya or Jin would have been better options to put in then Heihachi because they have the Cool Devil Powers, so I'm glad that Kazuya was picked in the end. Now Devil Jin would be cool, and It would be cool if they Added just Devil as a Skin, so Kazuya is always in Devil form, but my Actual pipe dream from Tekken is Unknown. I love Edge, I love Final Bosses, I love characters with cool powers, and I Love women, and she's all 4 at the same time, but among other things, she's not even Canon

It's a good thing though that my Most Wanted charcater (Shadow the Hedgehog) is definitely Coming to Smash in the next game

No disrespect, but as a massive SF fan, if we got a third character from the series' wide slate of iconic and/or popular characters and it was a third shoto (hell, not even someone like Sakura, another full-on Karate Man - to put it in rudimentary terms), I would be incredibly disappointed

I really just can't take any argument for another Street Fighter character who isn't Chun-Li seriously. I try to be open minded, but I really can't wrap my head around that possibility. One of those cases of "it could happen but why would it happen." I can't really even summarize the logic behind this in actual words, it's just an understood common sense founded in the way Smash operates and Street Fighter's very clear priorities.

She is arguably the most popular character in the series, she's next to Ryu in nearly every piece of promo or crossover material, she is utilized frequently as Street Fighter's co lead and second most important character. Going with anyone else would feel very much like a "just 'cuz" scenario that prioritizes being different over the sensible choice, but sometimes the obvious less thrilling answer is just the right answer.

Chun-Li is in Fortnite

Chun-Li is a Power Ranger

Chun-Li had a song named after her

She's literally called "The First Lady of Fighting Games"

There's no chance Street Fighter gets any other character lmao

Honestly the fact that Ryu and Ken are based on their incarnations from a game where Akuma only exists in secret OP boss form should be enough proof that Akuma...is not a hard lock for the third Street Fighter. Not only do they have to spend time nerfing him, but unlike Ken whose rules on how to differentiate him from Ryu were fully established by ST-weaker Hadouken, stronger Shoryuken, multi-hit Tatsumaki, command normals are kicks instead of punches, back throw has him roll back further-that isn't the case for Akuma. Partially because some of those differences Akuma gained later are to help him not be broken as a playable character, and then there are some that are unique moves like the Demon Flip.

So here is where I'm coming from. Now I do think Chun-Li is the more sensible option on many accounts. She is Iconic, Popular, and Cool. and usually she does Crossover with Ryu when Crossovers with Street Fighter happens

The thing is that with Actual Implementation in the actual Gameplay, even in the Actual Street Fighter games the Popularity doesn't add up to her usage rate, and I think that's in large part because Chun-Li is Complicated to use due to how she moves and her Charge inputs. I actually say this as someone that has Tried to play Chun-Li in these games, but find her complicated to use at times

In the actual Street Fighter games, Cammy (and now Juri) usually have a higher usage rate than Chun. They are not only easier to use, but to alot of people, Cammy and Juri have more Flavor in Personality (and perhaps sex appeal). Meanwhile the Shotos are Always number one in usage, with Ryu usually being number one, but also sometimes alternating with Ken and Akuma

in Smash, Ryu and Ken are actually Complicated to use in this game due to stuff like the Proximity normals, Light/Medium/Heavy attack control Scheme, in addition to their Physics and the inputs, which is why They aren't as popular in Smash as they are in Street Fighter, and I think that issue would compound with Chun. That's where I think I see the issue with Chun-Li, if you want to represent her in how she actually operates in the Street Fighter games.

I actually think if you want to keep the Street Fighter Mechanics in place, Akuma might actually fair better because you have Ryu and Ken as a base, and and the Amount of options he has would probably better Suit Smash with the balancing that he's Light, so you could go in on him being faster and Stronger and being able to shoot 2 Fireballs down on people. This is in addition to the fact that Akuma himself is Popular and Iconic, maybe not to the extent of Chun-Li to Casuals, but enough to be Recongizable. That and he has Edge, and people love Edge, and he has the Iconic Raging Demon.

However Thinking about it, I think for Chun, if there was a Modern Control Scheme in Smash for the Street Fighter characters like there is for characters in SF6, I think Chun would be easier to Compromise on when it comes to Implementation. it would also by proxy make Ryu and Ken not as intimidating to play. Either way, those are my thoughts. I do think Chun-Li should be in the game though

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

The fact that he was the one chosen for that role has to count for something.

Yeah. It means Sakurai is a fighting game fan that recognizes how Guile players use the character and thought it'd be funny to replicate that.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Chun-Li and Tifa may seem like they are in similar situations at first glance. If they get in, they would be the third reps of their respective series from third parties (Capcom and Square Enix respectively) if no cuts are involved, and are both incredibly popular. That is something we haven’t seen from third parties yet in Smash.

We have seen companies have three characters from different series (Sega has Sonic, Bayonetta, and Joker, or hybrid picks like Capcom and Square Enix themselves with Ryu, Ken, and Mega Man, plus Cloud, Sephiroth, and Hero). But, don’t forget we haven’t seen a third party have four characters yet.

Both do have hurdles with competition from other characters their companies own. Tifa probably has more strong competition, as fans (or perhaps even Nintendo, Sakurai, or Square Enix themselves) could make a case for 2B and Geno respectively, and also the fact Tifa is from one (very popular) game in the Final Fantasy series.

Chun also has competition, from other Mega Man picks, Leon Kennedy, and even possibly a veteran being Ken.

Anyhow, that’s just my take on the current talk here surrounding Tifa and Chun-Li.

 

[Kirbeh]

7NATOR I forgot to hit quote.

SF6 modern controls in Smash? That's already how Smash plays isn't it? Only way to simplify/streamline the FG characters is to remove their additional attacks/mechanics altogether.

As for Chun, I really don't see the issue with her moves. After all, you don't need to use SF inputs unless you want to.

Plus, Terry already introduced charge motions. And if they really want to, Kikoken's input has changed between games before. It's a QCF sometimes, and going back to Terry, his motions aren't even accurate either. They're clearly fine with switching a few things around.

Otherwise I can agree on Akuma also making sense, though I still think Chun is well above him and the handful of other potential candidates like Luke, Bison, etc.

 

[RileyXY1]

Chun-Li and Tifa may seem like they are in similar situations at first glance. If they get in, they would be the third reps of their respective series from third parties (Capcom and Square Enix respectively) if no cuts are involved, and are both incredibly popular. That is something we haven’t seen from third parties yet in Smash.

We have seen companies have three characters from different series (Sega has Sonic, Bayonetta, and Joker, or hybrid picks like Capcom and Square Enix themselves with Ryu, Ken, and Mega Man, plus Cloud, Sephiroth, and Hero). But, don’t forget we haven’t seen a third party have four characters yet.

Both do have hurdles with competition from other characters their companies own. Tifa probably has more strong competition, as fans (or perhaps even Nintendo, Sakurai, or Square Enix themselves) could make a case for 2B and Geno respectively, and also the fact Tifa is from one (very popular) game in the Final Fantasy series.

Chun also has competition, from other Mega Man picks, Leon Kennedy, and even possibly a veteran being Ken.

Anyhow, that’s just my take on the current talk here surrounding Tifa and Chun-Li.

Square Enix already has four characters. They've got Cloud, Sephiroth, Hero, and Sora all in total. It was kinda weird after Smash's DLC the worst represented third party company suddenly became the best represented company.

 

[Sucumbio]

Guile AT is kinda mid and not my fav representation of him any other AT or PB that just make you feel that way?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Guile AT is kinda mid and not my fav representation of him any other AT or PB that just make you feel that way?

Sonic Boom fixes everything~ ...In the Cartoon, anyway.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Square Enix already has four characters. They've got Cloud, Sephiroth, Hero, and Sora all in total. It was kinda weird after Smash's DLC the worst represented third party company suddenly became the best represented company.

I've joked that their reaction to Geno fans' demands is instead going through every other SE character of merit first, and honestly now that we're considering 2B and all that jazz I've gotta concede that it's not really a joke at all. I feel like if Geno was actually owned by Nintendo he'd at least be an assist trophy by now, but nooooooo he has to be owned by the company that has some of the most influential IP in all of japanese gaming lol

 

[Louie G.]

Chun-Li and Tifa may seem like they are in similar situations at first glance. If they get in, they would be the third reps of their respective series from third parties (Capcom and Square Enix respectively) if no cuts are involved, and are both incredibly popular. That is something we haven’t seen from third parties yet in Smash.

I will say I don't think Ken and Sephiroth are equivalents here. Chun-Li is the third "rep" sure, but she's the second original Street Fighter character. Ken is here in part due to his ease of development off of Ryu, whereas Sephiroth is here as a fully developed, unabashedly unique character. So in my eyes this is the wrong way to look at it, and Chun-Li is more equivalent to Street Fighter's "Sephiroth" than she is as its third entry. Even if Ken is one of the more unique echo fighters.

If this was perceived as an issue, I could also see them swapping Ken out and letting Chun go at it this time. I don't know if they would be so concerned about this, especially since SF is a significant enough series to at least warrant it without too many raised eyebrows (outside of places like this) but that seems like a pretty simple compromise if it really bothered them that much. And as far as "competition" goes, I think of this far less in respect to adding an obligatory new Capcom rep and moreso just Chun-Li being an essential character from a now mainstay Smash series. I feel like additional IP is probably more likely to be designated for DLC from this point forward too and it might be more efficient to build on what's already here in base with close partners.

 

[SPEN18]

Oh, wow... You actually make a REALLY good point about that. Heck, Style Savvy is one of Nintendo's more niche IPs, and it has 4 games under its belt.

What's more, I believe it was rumored shortly after the Switch was first revealed that we were even set to get Style Savvy 5 for the 3DS, but its development got moved to the Switch once it became clear that the former was all but dead by late 2016/early 2017 or so.

Still, I do feel like it should be noted that the series began to dwindle in sales after the second game, though. Honestly, I can't deny that I've always thought that part of why the very first game (on the DS) just barely pushed past the 1 million mark was because Nintendo managed get Beyonce to promote it (Heck, that's probably why even Rhythm Heaven got a pretty good start in the West too).

If I may say so, I've always thought that maybe Nintendo could have gotten someone like Taylor Swift to promote the 4th game (I'm pretty sure she was still pretty huge in 2017). It might be a coincidence, but one of the 'main girls' of that game straight-up looks like Swift in video game form (with a bit of Blake Lively and Karlie Kloss thrown in for good measure).

Heck, she's even the singer for the game's opening theme as well, so maybe the resemblance isn't a coincidence...

Yeah it's hard to really say. For all we know, syn Sophia could've simply preferred to work with a different publisher, or maybe Nintendo just didn't have the same belief in Style Savvy's success continuing on Switch. Maybe there was a pitch to Nintendo but they didn't find it inspiring. This kind of speculation can go endlessly in circles.
In any case, it's no secret that the market right now isn't as ripe for something like Style Savvy as it was in the DS era. Yet, syn Sophia at least thought it would still be profitable enough to put out a successor, and I'm not sure that it's going to be any less successful than Another Code or Endless Ocean. So definitely strange without being able to know what the respective companies were thinking.
As for celebrity endorsements, well, it takes two to tango. Taylor Swift might be out of this game's league at this point. But yeah a little commercial cameo from a celeb can definitely go quite a ways.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Guile AT is kinda mid and not my fav representation of him any other AT or PB that just make you feel that way?

Skull Kid. He just triggers one out of three generic effects that are already in the game while he does nothing, and none of those effects even resemble anything he did in Majora's Mask anyways.
I get what they were going for, he's a trickster/curser (is curser an actual word?) so causing some chaos fits him, but eh the execution is just so uninspired...

 

[Guynamednelson]

Guile AT is kinda mid and not my fav representation of him any other AT or PB that just make you feel that way?

Well considering it has his complete special moveset with two moves, there's not much you could do besides add a couple of his normal moves, compared to, say, Eevee just using Body Slam and looking around.

 

[dream1ng]

-Also, Part of me is thinking that the Actual most likely character to Come from Capcom would actually be Akuma. We already have Ryu and Ken as a Base to use, but Akuma himself is really popular, Iconic, and in the Actual Street Fighter games, is usually Top 2-5 in usage because people love Shotos, and Akuma is the "Evil, Edgy" shoto. I know when I play Street Fighter Akuma is one of my most played characters. Now in Smash Shotos are Weird to use, especially for Casuals, but I think because Akuma typically has more Aerial options in Street Fighter already, he probably wouldn't be as Awkward

I can't believe you're still on about this.

Not just the most likely character to come from Street Fighter, but to come from Capcom as a whole is a second Ryu clone? Basically, Capcom would just get what they got for Ultimate... again? They'd have that little priority? Absolutely not.

I know you're big on Shadow But It's Street Fighter, but the obvious next SF character is Chun-Li. Like, usually there's some subjectivity... but just it's undeniably Chun-Li. She's not just the biggest SF character remaining, she's not just, arguably, the most identifiable Capcom character remaining, but she's one of the most recognizable characters in gaming full stop, especially among female characters. You say Akuma is really popular and iconic... do you have any idea how much higher Chun-Li is in those areas?

Now maybe she wouldn't be the next Capcom character, because they still have several big unrepresented series, but the only way it wouldn't be Chun-Li next from SF is indeed if they were to just give Ryu another clone. But Capcom is one of the most stacked companies out there, and for Ultimate it ended up, basically, with the least added in terms of the roster for existing third-parties. The suggestion that that would just happen again, with the same exact clone base no less, is, honestly, ridiculous.

In the actual Street Fighter games, Cammy (and now Juri) usually have a higher usage rate than Chun. They are not only easier to use, but to alot of people, Cammy and Juri have more Flavor in Personality (and perhaps sex appeal). Meanwhile the Shotos are Always number one in usage, with Ryu usually being number one, but also sometimes alternating with Ken and Akuma

Well ****, someone better tell that to Fortnite and Brawlhalla and PxZ and GranBlue and KoF:All-Star and countless others, because Chun-Li was chosen for all of those crossovers. It's almost like there are more relevant factors than in-game usage rate, especially when the game plays differently.

in Smash, Ryu and Ken are actually Complicated to use in this game due to stuff like the Proximity normals, Light/Medium/Heavy attack control Scheme, in addition to their Physics and the inputs, which is why They aren't as popular in Smash as they are in Street Fighter, and I think that issue would compound with Chun. That's where I think I see the issue with Chun-Li, if you want to represent her in how she actually operates in the Street Fighter games.

I actually think if you want to keep the Street Fighter Mechanics in place, Akuma might actually fair better because you have Ryu and Ken as a base, and and the Amount of options he has would probably better Suit Smash with the balancing that he's Light, so you could go in on him being faster and Stronger and being able to shoot 2 Fireballs down on people. This is in addition to the fact that Akuma himself is Popular and Iconic, maybe not to the extent of Chun-Li to Casuals, but enough to be Recongizable. That and he has Edge, and people love Edge, and he has the Iconic Raging Demon.

However Thinking about it, I think for Chun, if there was a Modern Control Scheme in Smash for the Street Fighter characters like there is for characters in SF6, I think Chun would be easier to Compromise on when it comes to Implementation. it would also by proxy make Ryu and Ken not as intimidating to play. Either way, those are my thoughts. I do think Chun-Li should be in the game though

Neither Ryu nor Ken is complicated to use in Smash, because both operate with standard Smash controls and give you the option to do traditional inputs. They're not going to take away the ability to use Smash controls with Chun-Li, they'd only add extra functionality like they do all the characters.

And btw if they can do all that **** with Kazuya and give Terry his supers, they can do what would likely be simplified Chun Li controls, being


and


Terry literally already uses the input for Spinning Bird Kick. Moreover, the input window for Smash is very forgiving, because it's meant for people who aren't necessarily proficient at traditional fighters.

This is not a hard problem to overcome.

 

[Garteam]

Call it a hunch, but I don't think a secondary character from a third-party series would preclude another character owned by the same company but from a new series getting into Smash at the same time.

It just seems odd for Sakurai to theoretically go "Well, I guess I can't include Bomberman because I'm adding Alucard instead" or "No Chun-Li because we already added Leon".

 

[dream1ng]

Call it a hunch, but I don't think a secondary character from a third-party series would preclude another character owned by the same company but from a new series getting into Smash at the same time.

It just seems odd for Sakurai to theoretically go "Well, I guess I can't include Bomberman because I'm adding Alucard instead" or "No Chun-Li because we already added Leon".

It might for that round of inclusions though, which still gives a hierarchy of who was added before the other.

Not that it can't... but it usually does.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Sure, adding like, Dante doesn't mean Chun-Li can't also be added later or vice versa.

.....but at the same time, would be best not to get hopes up on both happening.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Yeah it's hard to really say. For all we know, syn Sophia could've simply preferred to work with a different publisher, or maybe Nintendo just didn't have the same belief in Style Savvy's success continuing on Switch. Maybe there was a pitch to Nintendo but they didn't find it inspiring. This kind of speculation can go endlessly in circles.
In any case, it's no secret that the market right now isn't as ripe for something like Style Savvy as it was in the DS era. Yet, syn Sophia at least thought it would still be profitable enough to put out a successor, and I'm not sure that it's going to be any less successful than Another Code or Endless Ocean. So definitely strange without being able to know what the respective companies were thinking.
As for celebrity endorsements, well, it takes two to tango. Taylor Swift might be out of this game's league at this point. But yeah a little commercial cameo from a celeb can definitely go quite a ways.

Now that I think about it, haven't Nintendo been getting Brie Larson to promote some of their games lately? I think they just announced she'll be the spokesperson for Princess Peach: Showtime.

 

[Louie G.]

Call it a hunch, but I don't think a secondary character from a third-party series would preclude another character owned by the same company but from a new series getting into Smash at the same time.

It just seems odd for Sakurai to theoretically go "Well, I guess I can't include Bomberman because I'm adding Alucard instead" or "No Chun-Li because we already added Leon".

I’ve been toying with how I feel about this and for now I’m just deciding it’s safer to assume one could be on the base roster - probably the easier one, whoever belongs to a series already in the game - and the other would be first wave DLC which will likely be planned fairly early on. I had characters like Arle and Monster Hunter on my shortlist and I decided they might be secondary priority for base roster compared to these very easy options immediately at their fingertips.

In essence I agree with what you’re saying though, Chun-Li or any other Capcom character likely doesn’t make it in specifically because Capcom. It would be for their own merit, which can be judged individually. It’s a bit unprecedented so it’s good to tread carefully, but surely something like Chun-Li and Monster Hunter could probably coexist.

 

[dream1ng]

I'm sort of just echoing Golden, but while multiple characters from the same company can and have happened, it's still entirely common, actually more common, to just get one new one per game. The only ones that got multiple were Capcom in 4, and MS, Square, and technically Konami in Ult.

So sure it's possible for more, but that's also not an assumption you can make. Especially in the context of being within the same "wave".

 

[Laniv]

Guile AT is kinda mid and not my fav representation of him any other AT or PB that just make you feel that way?

Remind me why Skull Kid and the Moon are separate Assist Trophies

 

[Gorgonzales]

On the flip side of Zero, who I feel like has an actual shot to make it in, are there any characters you really want to see that you think have such a low chance that you would feel like you’re just throwing your vote away by voting for them if we ever got another Smash Ballot?

I want MC Ballyhoo as a Mario Party rep. Like, I want him to basically be the physical embodiment of Mario Party into a fighting game character, with his moveset mainly emphasizing mindgames, fake-outs, and some luck. If we ever got a Mario Party rep I'd want him out of all the hosts, he's got a lovable and bombastic personality and energy to him. It'd be super cool to see him pulling tricks on the battlefield, and I'd love it if they gave him a little extra magician flair for his Smash interpretation (pulling something out of his hat, using a chain of scarves he pulls from his sleeve, etc).

There's a few notable problems with his chances; namely, he has to fight an uphill battle against every other Mario character they could add, which is a lot. This is made worse by the fact that he only physically appears in one game. But... man, I think a Mario Party rep in Smash would be so fun. I don't want them to designate representation of that series to Waluigi's down special or whatever.

 

[Shinuto]

I want MC Ballyhoo as a Mario Party rep. Like, I want him to basically be the physical embodiment of Mario Party into a fighting game character, with his moveset mainly emphasizing mindgames, fake-outs, and some luck. If we ever got a Mario Party rep I'd want him out of all the hosts, he's got a lovable and bombastic personality and energy to him. It'd be super cool to see him pulling tricks on the battlefield, and I'd love it if they gave him a little extra magician flair for his Smash interpretation (pulling something out of his hat, using a chain of scarves he pulls from his sleeve, etc).

There's a few notable problems with his chances; namely, he has to fight an uphill battle against every other Mario character they could add, which is a lot. This is made worse by the fact that he only physically appears in one game. But... man, I think a Mario Party rep in Smash would be so fun. I don't want them to designate representation of that series to Waluigi's down special or whatever.

MC Ballyhoo sucks.