Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Sucumbio]

With over 8 million units sold NieR:Automata is one of my stronger picks for a new SE property in the next Smash. Let's Go!!!

 

[Dinoman96]

With over 8 million units sold NieR:Automata is one of my stronger picks for a new SE property in the next Smash. Let's Go!!!

View attachment 385291

Yeah I was thinking about that, one thing that might be a problem is the fact that Nier Automata's a bit old now, of course that ain't stopping 2B from appearing friggin' everywhere like Granblue Fantasy Versus.

 

[fogbadge]

With over 8 million units sold NieR:Automata is one of my stronger picks for a new SE property in the next Smash. Let's Go!!!

View attachment 385291

and what are the numbers when we add in the other neir games and there predecessors drakengard?

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah I was thinking about that, one thing that might be a problem is the fact that Nier Automata's a bit old now, of course that ain't stopping 2B from appearing friggin' everywhere like Granblue Fantasy Versus.

I read that Yoko Taro was especially peeved the game didn't align well time wise with Ultimate... Hopefully this time will be different especially since 2B is so... everywhere.

and what are the numbers when we add in the other neir games and there predecessors drakengard?

No idea!

Who are the red heads? And there's like whales and ****

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I read that Yoko Taro was especially peeved the game didn't align well time wise with Ultimate... Hopefully this time will be different especially since 2B is so... everywhere.



No idea!

View attachment 385307

Who are the red heads? And there's like whales and ****

The red heads are Din and Marin.

The Whale is the Wind Fish.

 

[fogbadge]

No idea!

might be worth looking into. it'd be only a help to your point

 

[Sucumbio]

might be worth looking into. it'd be only a help to your point

Hehehe man u got me chuckling from 3k Miles away and this is why I love you no shade but yeah I'm sure it's good seeing as this series goes deep and I'm definitely too lazy to do math but as for the series I may have to play it or is there a show maybe cause sometimes they're good like Castlevania...

 

[SPEN18]

Copyright on the webpage seems to indicate it's a joint ownership
View attachment 385287

Right, though other external developers for first-party titles such as Camelot, IS, HAL, etc. also appear on the copyrights. We know Nintendo filed a trademark for Endless Ocean (widely reported in 2018 alongside Another Code, curiously enough), so they have some kind of ownership, but clearly ARIKA has some rights as well. Probably best at least for practical purposes to treat it like a first party, but one that, like others, has an external developer which also exerts some control over what happens with it?

 

[Shinuto]

Yeah I was thinking about that, one thing that might be a problem is the fact that Nier Automata's a bit old now, of course that ain't stopping 2B from appearing friggin' everywhere like Granblue Fantasy Versus.

Hey it got rereleased on Switch so technically not THAT old with said rerelease.

 

[Speed Weed]

Right, though other external developers for first-party titles such as Camelot, IS, HAL, etc. also appear on the copyrights. We know Nintendo filed a trademark for Endless Ocean (widely reported in 2018 alongside Another Code, curiously enough), so they have some kind of ownership, but clearly ARIKA has some rights as well. Probably best at least for practical purposes to treat it like a first party, but one that, like others, has an external developer which also exerts some control over what happens with it?

Ah yeah, good point on IS/HAL/etc. Seems to be the gist of it, yes

 

[Gengar84]

Looks like there's an update for that League of Legends fighting game formerly known as Project L. It just got a new update trailer and a new name, 2XKO. I'm not really a fan of the new name and I personally thought Project L sounded cooler but whatever. I'm curious if this game is going to line up with the next Smash where it might make sense to include a character. The next season of Arcane is due out at the end of the year too. Not saying they're a sure thing for Smash but I think it's worth keeping an eye on.

Project L - Official "2XKO" Name Announcement Gameplay Trailer

Viewer Discretion is Advised. A small percentage of people may experience epileptic seizures when exposed to certain visual images, flashing lights or light ...

www.youtube.com

I don't play a ton of traditional fighters and I don't really have any plans to play the main League of Legends game but the gameplay for this one looks pretty cool and I'm a fan of a lot of these character designs. Thanks to silentthunder for bringing this one to my attention.

 

[dream1ng]

Yeah I was thinking about that, one thing that might be a problem is the fact that Nier Automata's a bit old now, of course that ain't stopping 2B from appearing friggin' everywhere like Granblue Fantasy Versus.

Yeah but this isn't first-party; third-parties aren't as hindered by stuff like that. Nintendo's goal isn't to sell those third-party games on other platforms, it's the reverse, to draw that other audience inward to them. And Nier is still active, and 2B is still popular.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Yeah I was thinking about that, one thing that might be a problem is the fact that Nier Automata's a bit old now, of course that ain't stopping 2B from appearing friggin' everywhere like Granblue Fantasy Versus.

I think 2B has grown popular enough to transcend the need for timing.

 

[smashkirby]

Right, though other external developers for first-party titles such as Camelot, IS, HAL, etc. also appear on the copyrights. We know Nintendo filed a trademark for Endless Ocean (widely reported in 2018 alongside Another Code, curiously enough), so they have some kind of ownership, but clearly ARIKA has some rights as well. Probably best at least for practical purposes to treat it like a first party, but one that, like others, has an external developer which also exerts some control over what happens with it?

Ngl, it's that trademark that makes me hope that series like Chibi-Robo, Style Savvy, Pilotwings, etc. aren't truly dead...

I mean, we just got confirmation of a totally NEW Endless Ocean game, so at least there's hope Nintendo won't leave those games to languish or whatever...

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

I think 2B has grown popular enough to transcend the need for timing.

She shows up in everything nowadays like Joker.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Ngl, it's that trademark that makes me hope that series like Chibi-Robo, Style Savvy, Pilotwings, etc. aren't truly dead...

I mean, we just got confirmation of a totally NEW Endless Ocean game, so at least there's hope Nintendo won't leave those games to languish or whatever...

It really goes to show just how many IP have been revived on the Switch.

Just to name some, we've had...

Mario Strikers
Pokemon Snap
Metroid Prime
F-Zero
Famicom Detective Club
Advance Wars
Trace Memory/Another Code
Endless Ocean

That's quite a lot.

And that's while keeping most of the marquis IP alive and well. Several IP like Metroid, Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles, and Animal Crossing have seen series peaks in terms of success.
Nintendo has had an utterly fantastic generation.

Really, barring retro franchises, the only Nintendo IPs in Smash without any new titles on the Switch are Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Wii Fit and Punch Out!!. Of those, Wii Fit relies on the Wii brand, Earthbound is finished and DK survives through Mario content.

Only Star Fox, Kid Icarus and Punch Out!! have effectively seen nothing.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

I would not have predicted that 7 years after the Switch's release, Star Fox's only presence on the system would be thanks to an Ubisoft toys to life game.

 

[Gorgonzales]

It really goes to show just how many IP have been revived on the Switch.

Just to name some, we've had...

Mario Strikers

Kind of weird to put Mario Strikers on that list. It's so sad to see that it skipped out on the Switch generation, but then again, the Switch Mario Sports titles we've gotten so far have been half-baked, releasing with less content than their predecessors and being slowly padded out with shallow free updates that add content that should've been there to begin with. The thought of that happening to Strikers makes me shudder, surely this series deserves better than that! Imagine if the game released without even having Daisy as a character at launch. Thank goodness we don't live in a reality where that is the case!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Kind of weird to put Mario Strikers on that list. It's so sad to see that it skipped out on the Switch generation, but then again, the Switch Mario Sports titles we've gotten so far have been half-baked, releasing with less content than their predecessors and being slowly padded out with shallow free updates that add content that should've been there to begin with. The thought of that happening to Strikers makes me shudder, surely this series deserves better than that! Imagine if the game released without even having Daisy as a character at launch. Thank goodness we don't live in a reality where that is the case!

Bruh.

You don't have to like Battle League, but this is kind of cringe.

 

[smashkirby]

It really goes to show just how many IP have been revived on the Switch.

Just to name some, we've had...

Mario Strikers
Pokemon Snap
Metroid Prime
F-Zero
Famicom Detective Club
Advance Wars
Trace Memory/Another Code
Endless Ocean

That's quite a lot.

And that's while keeping most of the marquis IP alive and well. Several IP like Metroid, Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles, and Animal Crossing have seen series peaks in terms of success.
Nintendo has had an utterly fantastic generation.

Really, barring retro franchises, the only Nintendo IPs in Smash without any new titles on the Switch are Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Wii Fit and Punch Out!!. Of those, Wii Fit relies on the Wii brand, Earthbound is finished and DK survives through Mario content.

Only Star Fox, Kid Icarus and Punch Out!! have effectively seen nothing.

It really does make you think... just what IPs will the next Nintendo console revive? In addition to the series I mentioned earlier, I'm hoping Wave Race, 1080, Rhythm Heaven, Ouendan/EBA, Jam with the Band, Custom Robo, and Sin & Punishment can get something, be it remakes or otherwise.

 

[dream1ng]

If a third-party is actually plausible for Smash, timing wouldn't really be a necessity anyway. Of course it could help if they had advantageous timing, but if bad timing were enough to preclude them, they probably aren't at the level they'd get included.

Like, if you look at the third-parties we have to date - any of them could still get included, regardless of what they've done in the last couple years. Even if they had nothing going on lately. Because they're all just "big" or popular enough to get in based on just who they are or from what series they hail.

This isn't first-party. There are still plenty of third-parties out there that are prolific enough to not need to rely on opportunistic timing.

And 2B comes from a highly successful game, and has remained highly popular generally. She's also one of a decreasing number of characters with high popularity both in and out of Japan. She may not get in, but she's more than qualified. Plus, she really isn't that old.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

If a third-party is actually plausible for Smash, timing wouldn't really be a necessity anyway. Of course it could help if they had advantageous timing, but if bad timing were enough to preclude them, they probably aren't at the level they'd get included.

Like, if you look at the third-parties we have to date - any of them could still get included, regardless of what they've done in the last couple years. Even if they had nothing going on lately. Because they're all just "big" or popular enough to get in based on just who they are or from what series they hail.

This isn't first-party. There are still plenty of third-parties out there that are prolific enough to not need to rely on opportunistic timing.

And 2B comes from a highly successful game, and has remained highly popular generally. She's also one of a decreasing number of characters with high popularity both in and out of Japan. She may not get in, but she's more than qualified. Plus, she really isn't that old.

What you said brings a question I've been mulling over to mind.

Would Joker have been included in Ultimate if the timing wasn't literally perfect? He was included when Persona 5 hype was at it's peak. He's still popular but I have to wonder...

 

[dream1ng]

What you said brings a question I've been mulling over to mind.

Would Joker have been included in Ultimate if the timing wasn't literally perfect? He was included when Persona 5 hype was at it's peak. He's still popular but I have to wonder...

I think the biggest hindrance to Joker's chances would simply be Persona 6, whenever we get that.

But yeah, I think there's a decent parallel between Joker and 2B in that they come from series that didn't hit a certain level of audience size until they showed up, and they ushered it into to being elevated a tier in terms of profile. They are, sort of, the face of their series getting "big". Neither was necessarily the most requested Smash character, or the most Nintendo-associated character, but both had/have definite Smash support, and both are quite popular both in Japan and out, while Joker has remained a generally popular character, much like 2B is a generally popular character.

So yes, as 2B still has a more than decent chance I also believe had Joker not been included, he'd also still have a more than decent chance. His demand also would've taken a boost after those ports, and he'd be going into Smash 6 with a good momentum.

 

[Shinuto]

I swear hearing Yoko Taro didnt want to ask for 2B in Smash till she was on a Nintendo platform.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

What you said brings a question I've been mulling over to mind.

Would Joker have been included in Ultimate if the timing wasn't literally perfect? He was included when Persona 5 hype was at it's peak. He's still popular but I have to wonder...

Honestly, if Joker hadn't been included in Smash during Ultimate, I would argue the case to include him in the next Smash would be stronger given that by now, P5R had happened, Strikers has happened, P5 has been released on Switch, P5 has been killing off every gacha it crosses over with other than Granblue, etc.
Even if it didn't get a fighter, there was no way P5 would have missed out on SOME kind of content next go round, or even have Spirits for Ultimate.

 

[dream1ng]

I swear hearing Yoko Taro didnt want to ask for 2B in Smash till she was on a Nintendo platform.

Sort of. He equated now being on Switch with being able to be in Smash. But we don't know if this is just assumption or if he actually knows behind the scenes stuff.

"I'm Hugely Disappointed We Did Not Make It In Time To Get Into Smash Bros." - Yoko Taro Talks NieR:Automata On Switch

Ah, but did that stop Joker?

www.nintendolife.com

Nothing about actually asking to be in Smash. Though I guess this at least shows he wants it to happen. But one, most creators do, and two, Taro isn't stingy about where he lets 2B show up. Still, him being this motivated certainly doesn't hurt her chances.

 

[Lionfranky]

I swear hearing Yoko Taro didnt want to ask for 2B in Smash till she was on a Nintendo platform.

I think that was DMC producer.

Devil May Cry Director Says If Smash Bros. Fans Want Dante, Ask Capcom For His Games On Switch

This party is getting crazy, but it could get crazier.

www.gameinformer.com

 

[Kirbeh]

I feel like 2B has already cemented her place as a mainstay in gaming culture. Her game may have released 7ish years ago, but Nier as a series is still active and she continues to make appearances here and there. Just last year she was in Nikke and also just made a second fighting game guest appearance in Granblue. I personally don't think she'll make it, but if she does, I won't be surprised either.

 

[Shinuto]

I feel like 2B has already cemented her place as a mainstay in gaming culture. Her game may have released 7ish years ago, but Nier as a series is still active and she continues to make appearances here and there. Just last year she was in Nikke and also just made a second fighting game guest appearance in Granblue. I personally don't think she'll make it, but if she does, I won't be surprised either.

I want her along with Shantae to get in so I can remake this in-game and send it to the artist.

 

[Kirbeh]

I want her along with Shantae to get in so I can remake this in-game and send it to the artist.View attachment 385321

Two of my most wanted characters right there. Sadly, I've very little faith in their chances.

 

[Lionfranky]

Two of my most wanted characters right there. Sadly, I've very little faith in their chances.

I think you are underselling 2B's chance. She got everything going for her. Global popularity including Japan. Relevancy.
She will be the frontrunner from Square Enix. Censoring her wouldn't be too difficult.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

If good sales and evergreen-ness are so important, where are my Doom Guy and my Dark Souls guy?

 

[fogbadge]

It really goes to show just how many IP have been revived on the Switch.

Just to name some, we've had...

Mario Strikers
Pokemon Snap
Metroid Prime
F-Zero
Famicom Detective Club
Advance Wars
Trace Memory/Another Code
Endless Ocean

That's quite a lot.

And that's while keeping most of the marquis IP alive and well. Several IP like Metroid, Splatoon and Xenoblade Chronicles, and Animal Crossing have seen series peaks in terms of success.
Nintendo has had an utterly fantastic generation.

Really, barring retro franchises, the only Nintendo IPs in Smash without any new titles on the Switch are Donkey Kong, Star Fox, Earthbound, Kid Icarus, Wii Fit and Punch Out!!. Of those, Wii Fit relies on the Wii brand, Earthbound is finished and DK survives through Mario content.

Only Star Fox, Kid Icarus and Punch Out!! have effectively seen nothing.

punch out and kid icarus weren't exactly getting regular releases at the time of their last entries to be fair

 

[Louie G.]

punch out and kid icarus weren't exactly getting regular releases at the time of their last entries to be fair

Star Fox is the outlier, but Kid Icarus / Punch-Out reside in this weird “retro, but not” category. They got one fantastic revival game, and then radio silence. It’s enough to put them at least a level above Ice Climber, but a significant step below once fruitful series like Star Fox or F-Zero. Not saying anything we don't already know, but I find it pretty interesting to try and compartmentalize these series.

Granted, a point could be made that Punch-Out was once a major Nintendo IP - one of the earliest. But that momentum came to a halt after Super Punch Out and the rest is history. It does leave Mac filling a pretty strange niche on the roster, with other comparable series like Kid Icarus or Mother just having way more going on in Smash. With Pit being adopted into well... a special favorable role, I think that's safe to say. Not that I'm complaining.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

With Punch Out, there's general oddity of its genre (aracde style boxing game) doesn't really exist all that much now, so Nintendo's inconsistency with it is not surprising, albeit still unfortunate.

 

[BritishGuy54]

I feel like 2B has already cemented her place as a mainstay in gaming culture. Her game may have released 7ish years ago, but Nier as a series is still active and she continues to make appearances here and there. Just last year she was in Nikke and also just made a second fighting game guest appearance in Granblue. I personally don't think she'll make it, but if she does, I won't be surprised either.

Yeah, if we were to get another Square Enix character, it would probably be 2B.

But looking into next game, and how stingy Square Enix are known to be, especially with Smash, I’m unsure on her chances, especially if Cloud or Hero don’t make it back into base game.

Though, not gonna lie, it would be funny to get 2B revealed alongside the Geno Mii Costume again.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, if we were to get another Square Enix character, it would probably be 2B.

But looking into next game, and how stingy Square Enix are known to be, especially with Smash, I’m unsure on her chances, especially if Cloud or Hero don’t make it back into base game.

Though, not gonna lie, it would be funny to get 2B revealed alongside the Geno Mii Costume again.

good grief people are still spouting the SE is stingy nonsense

 

[Gorgonzales]

the only square enix character I actively want are the space invaders

 

[AlRex]

I want both Space Invaders and 2B, both are fitting at this point. Though Square-Enix already has four characters, I suppose. Rough prediction, I’d say 2B, Crash, and DOOMGuy or Master Chief are likely for another Smash, depending on how the direction of the next game goes, anyways.

 

[Gengar84]

the only square enix character I actively want are the space invaders

Space invaders would be cool but mine has to be Magus from Chrono Trigger. He’s one of my favorite gaming characters and would have such a cool and unique moveset. The Chrono games also have amazing music so that’s a plus. An Octopath Traveller character would be awesome as well as that series has such a cool graphical style and also has amazing music.