Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[dream1ng]

It's funny how the fanbase has collectively decided to ignore how Sakurai said Nintendo picked the DLC when it comes to Terry.

And yet no one will use it as proof of Sakurai lying, because it's not confirmed.

Schrodinger's Sakurai bias.

 

[Speed Weed]

It's funny how the fanbase has collectively decided to ignore how Sakurai said Nintendo picked the DLC when it comes to Terry.

And yet no one will use it as proof of Sakurai lying, because it's not confirmed.

Schrodinger's Sakurai bias.

oh. oh yeah that.

****. ****. my le epic post. Gone.

 

[Gorgonzales]

every time people start listing off their top smash picks for a certain criteria, i feel the urge to stop what i'm doing and make an image since i like visualizing stuff more that way (and possibly ocd)

anyways here are my top 10 first-party wants

I don't really need any of these characters but I'd be happy if one of them made it, especially if they're from the top three. Trust me, the only thing I actually need for the next game is Olimar getting a rework, or him getting his personality at the very least lol. I would not want another Pikmin character before they fix Olimar.

 

[fogbadge]

Well I didn't say any of that.

if i was directing it at you i would have quoted you

 

[dream1ng]

oh. oh yeah that.

*. *. my le epic post. Gone.

I mean I don't necessarily buy that Sakurai didn't have input in any of the DLC selections. I think Nintendo might've been the principle arbiter, but I suspect Sakurai might've downplayed his role to get twitter to leave him alone.

Of course this doesn't necessarily mean he actually was the one who chose Terry, but just... I believe there's reasonable doubt towards DLC being 100% Nintendo. I think Sakurai probably did get to make suggestions for at least a couple of the spots.

Having said that, I notice that whenever there's no self-evident reason for that specific character to have been selected (i.e. demand, promotion, etc.) people tend to ascribe it to "Sakurai likes x", and I don't think it's that simple either.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if we got an Ace Attorney spirit for the 3rd or 4th spirit event of this year. Esp with the Apollo trilogy coming out this Friday and all that 0_o

ALSO IM 10 SPIRITS AWAY FROM GETTING EVERY SPIRIT YAYYYY

 

[dream1ng]

if i was directing it at you i would have quoted you

I think you were referring to multiple posts, one of which was mine.

 

[fogbadge]

I think you were referring to multiple posts, one of which was mine.

so? i hardly singled you out

 

[WeirdChillFever]

every time people start listing off their top smash picks for a certain criteria, i feel the urge to stop what i'm doing and make an image since i like visualizing stuff more that way (and possibly ocd)

anyways here are my top 10 first-party wants

View attachment 383425

I don't really need any of these characters but I'd be happy if one of them made it, especially if they're from the top three. Trust me, the only thing I actually need for the next game is Olimar getting a rework, or him getting his personality at the very least lol. I would not want another Pikmin character before they fix Olimar.

Nabbit is such a goated choice and it reminds me that I should update the moveset I made for him

 

[Ivander]

I mean, while I don't doubt that Nintendo has most of the say in choosing characters, I can think of some things:

1. They're willing to throw a bone or two for who Sakurai would like and allow him to work his talent on some characters.
2. The people who personally know him are open to give characters he would personally like a chance. After all, he didn't make it a secret that Smash Bros. was inspired by Fatal Fury.
3. They don't force him to do characters that he doesn't have an idea for, how to implement, etc, as Sakurai was suggested characters like Pac-Man, Villager, Heihachi, but they didn't get in at the time because he didn't know how to implement them at the time.

Basically, while I do believe Nintendo has most of the say, I do also think that they are open to characters he would like to do under some conditions.

 

[dream1ng]

so? i hardly singled you out

Yes but I can't respond as everyone to whom it may have referred. In regards to my post, it misrepresented what I had said.

Which wouldn't have been a problem if it truly wasn't in reference to my post, but I could tell it, at least partly, was. Which you've now confirmed.

 

[chocolatejr9]

At this rate, I wouldn't be surprised if we got an Ace Attorney spirit for the 3rd or 4th spirit event of this year. Esp with the Apollo trilogy coming out this Friday and all that 0_o

ALSO IM 10 SPIRITS AWAY FROM GETTING EVERY SPIRIT YAYYYY

Just in time for me to finally start playing the series.

For anybody wondering, yes: I did get to the part where you cross-examine a parrot.

 

[SPEN18]

"They will never live up to Brawl so they won't see any point in adding any more first party newcomers"
"Animal Crossing will never get more than one unique moveset"
Now these are takes likely to age like milk~~
(I know these are exaggerated versions of what was actually said, please don't take it the wrong way)

Look, I'll go to bat for Smash 4's base game lineup, which had some fantastic additions. But I just don't get this whole acting like Smash 4 is impossible to live up to because...it's not really that hard to construct a lineup of a dozen or so newcomers whose resumes compare reasonably favorably with the Smash 4 newcomers'. Not like they'd need to anyway...don't tell me brand-new additions from series like Mario, Pokemon, Zelda, Kirby, Splatoon, Animal Crossing, etc. won't get fans' motors running.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Just in time for me to finally start playing the series.

For anybody wondering, yes: I did get to the part where you cross-examine a parrot.

There's a very clear split just like the Megaman X Compilations.

Phoenix wright Ace attorney trilogy has the good games

Apollo Justice Ace Attorney trilogy has the bad ones.

The great ace attorney has the goated ones but these games arent connected to Phoenix or Apollo

 

[SPEN18]

I also don't agree with the argumentative strategy of "I'm discounting these first party picks that I concede have big pull because I don't personally think they'll happen." Like, if you admit there are strong choices remaining and Nintendo opts not to go for them, then that's their fault for misreading what the most exciting additions would be, not a comment on the quality and supply of possible choices.

 

[chinkuru]

Alright, I’m inspired to try something. Whenever I make a list here of my most wanted characters, I always either just have a few first party characters or leave them out altogether. I’ll try to make a most wanted list limited to first party with the requirement that I feel like they need to at least have a somewhat decent chance so I don’t just list all my favorites with no basis.

1) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
2) Officer Howard
3) Noah and Mio (Ouroboros fusion)
4) Dixie Kong (with animal buddies)
5) Impa (Hyrule Warriors)
6) Rauru
7) Raven Beak or EMMI
8) Medusa
9) The Black Knight
10) Isaac

I know I left out a lot of the most popular picks as well as a lot of my favorite niche characters but I think this would be a good list of plausible characters I’d be happy to see.

My 1st party top ten:
1) Tingle
2) Takamaru
3) Isaac
4) Skull Kid
5) Meowth
6) Toad
7) Tom Nook
8) Dixie Kong
9) Porky Minch
10) Ring Fit Trainee

 

[fogbadge]

Yes but I can't respond as everyone to whom it may have referred. In regards to my post, it misrepresented what I had said.

Which wouldn't have been a problem if it truly wasn't in reference to my post, but I could tell it, at least partly, was. Which you've now confirmed.

what? I did not follow that

 

[Ivander]

Now, I can't say that some characters aren't popular, but we did recently have a discussion regarding popularity outside of the West and noted the extreme lack of knowledge regarding the JP popularity of some characters. Which is still a factor to keep in mind for future games.

 

[Gengar84]

What are some western properties that are popular in Japan? I know StarCraft is really popular in South Korea but I’m not sure whether it’s popular in Japan as well. How popular is something like League of Legends or World of WarCraft compared to Halo or Crash?

 

[HyperSomari64]

What are some western properties that are popular in Japan? I know StarCraft is really popular in South Korea but I’m not sure whether it’s popular in Japan as well. How popular is something like League of Legends or World of WarCraft compared to Halo or Crash?

Crash actually got it's peak of popularity in said country. That's where the dance came from, and there are some ads featuring him with PaRappa.

 

[fogbadge]

Crash actually got it's peak of popularity in said country. That's where the dance came from, and there are some ads featuring him with PaRappa.

of course there are

 

[smashkirby]

I think I’m the reverse, I’d be more hyped for chibi-robo and Ashley mizuki robins than a lot of the popular third party pics.

but then again do we need every character to be hype? a few low key inclusions might do us good

I really don’t like the notion that characters have to be iconic or big to be in smash. and I particularly dislike it when it’s used to suggest to are no more interesting first party characters. let’s face it what you probably mean is there’s no more first party characters that interest you personally. some of us have hundreds of first party characters we’d love to have more than some of the most popular third parties. as for likelihood that’s anyone guess, sakurai is not exactly a man of rigid patterns

My thoughts exactly. Not to discredit highly-desired characters or anything (especially as I've wanted Bandana Waddle Dee for the longest time now), but I've always been even MORE taken with the 'oddball' choices of Smash. It honestly bugs me when people say 'There's no more big 1st parties to add to Smash' or 'There's little value in Nintendo adding their own characters anymore'.

In addition to it being FAR more financially viable for Nintendo to do just that (adding more of their OWN stock into Smash), I honestly don't know if I'd be THAT excited for so many 3rd parties being added. I know it sounds crazy to say, but I feel like the hype I'd get from 3rd parties being added would become a little dulled over time. 1st parties, on the other hand?

Heck, give me Chibi-Robo, Ashley Mizuki Robbins, Kyle Hyde, Angelique Noir (Style Savvy 4), Lark, Mona, Goku (Yuyuki), Urban Champion, Bubbles, and the like, and I'd honestly find THAT more exciting.

At this point, I assume I'm at least well-known around here for being far-and-away more interested in Nintendo's own catalogue of characters than the 3rd party side of things.

 

[Sucumbio]

What are some western properties that are popular in Japan? I know StarCraft is really popular in South Korea but I’m not sure whether it’s popular in Japan as well. How popular is something like League of Legends or World of WarCraft compared to Halo or Crash?

According to this, and not including Minecraft or DKC or Luigi's Mansion sequels,.... Not a whole lot lol. GTA5 and some indie game I never heard of, and Crash at number 10.

 

[Louie G.]

Crash actually got it's peak of popularity in said country. That's where the dance came from, and there are some ads featuring him with PaRappa.

Yeah I believe Crash 2 was the first western developed game to hit 1 million sales in Japan, or something along those lines. It’s a pretty impressive feat, but unfortunately Crash’s later endeavors haven’t been quite as fruitful over there.

To my knowledge he’s still got some JP Smash requests though, I imagine most people view him as more of a classic PS1 throwback than anything. Then again, lots of Americans probably still see him this way too.

 

[RileyXY1]

My thoughts exactly. Not to discredit highly-desired characters or anything (especially as I've wanted Bandana Waddle Dee for the longest time now), but I've always been even MORE taken with the 'oddball' choices of Smash. It honestly bugs me when people say 'There's no more big 1st parties to add to Smash' or 'There's little value in Nintendo adding their own characters anymore'.

In addition to it being FAR more financially viable for Nintendo to do just that (adding more of their OWN stock into Smash), I honestly don't know if I'd be THAT excited for so many 3rd parties being added. I know it sounds crazy to say, but I feel like the hype I'd get from 3rd parties being added would become a little dulled over time. 1st parties, on the other hand?

Heck, give me Chibi-Robo, Ashley Mizuki Robbins, Kyle Hyde, Angelique Noir (Style Savvy 4), Lark, Mona, Goku (Yuyuki), Urban Champion, Bubbles, and the like, and I'd honestly find THAT more exciting.

At this point, I assume I'm at least well-known around here for being far-and-away more interested in Nintendo's own catalogue of characters than the 3rd party side of things.

And if they added these characters they might actually get more attention put into them. Smash Bros can singlehandedly make an obscure franchise into a popular one overnight, as can be seen with Earthbound and Fire Emblem. The decision to add Ness in Smash 64 turned Earthbound from an obscure SNES RPG that bombed in the West to being a cult classic that sold like hotcakes on the Wii U VC, and it's because of Smash that Fire Emblem is the massive franchise it is today, as without Smash Fire Emblem might not ever make it out of Japan. If they add more obscure Nintendo characters they might end up becoming icons in their own right.

 

[chocolatejr9]

What are some western properties that are popular in Japan? I know StarCraft is really popular in South Korea but I’m not sure whether it’s popular in Japan as well. How popular is something like League of Legends or World of WarCraft compared to Halo or Crash?

I think I saw either Skyrim or The Witcher, but I can't remember which...

 

[Gorgonzales]

My thoughts exactly. Not to discredit highly-desired characters or anything (especially as I've wanted Bandana Waddle Dee for the longest time now), but I've always been even MORE taken with the 'oddball' choices of Smash. It honestly bugs me when people say 'There's no more big 1st parties to add to Smash' or 'There's little value in Nintendo adding their own characters anymore'.

In addition to it being FAR more financially viable for Nintendo to do just that (adding more of their OWN stock into Smash), I honestly don't know if I'd be THAT excited for so many 3rd parties being added. I know it sounds crazy to say, but I feel like the hype I'd get from 3rd parties being added would become a little dulled over time. 1st parties, on the other hand?

Heck, give me Chibi-Robo, Ashley Mizuki Robbins, Kyle Hyde, Angelique Noir (Style Savvy 4), Lark, Mona, Goku (Yuyuki), Urban Champion, Bubbles, and the like, and I'd honestly find THAT more exciting.

At this point, I assume I'm at least well-known around here for being far-and-away more interested in Nintendo's own catalogue of characters than the 3rd party side of things.

y'know I never really gave Bubbles a second look whenever people mention her being fighter potential, but now that I have, I think she'd actually make a really unique retro rep. the whole gimmick of grabbing poles to re-orient her direction could be translated into Smash by giving her a move where she can grab the edges of soft platforms during knockback to redirect her momentum, letting her fly at another angle of her choosing (assuming the move is timed and positioned right).

...wectoring, but as an intended mechanic!

 

[Louie G.]

I mean he had four games and two spin-offs and still made Isabelle a semi-clone.

I've been sitting on this point a bit, and I don't really like it. It took Sakurai like 15 years to figure out how to make Ridley work, I don't see why it would be such a strain on Sakurai's imagination to resonate a little more on Tom Nook and then come to the conclusion that he could swing his tail around and whack you with a bag of bells or something. It seems likely to me he just hasn't thought about him very much yet, or maybe in the earliest planning stages he contemplated whether to add him or Villager. Not that there's any evidence for that, though. But with Animal Crossing's unprecedented boom in success I think he will be forced to confront this again, and I guess we'll see whether or not he has anything new to say.

Isabelle actually had quite a few new ideas. Her Fishing Rod, her Lloid Trap, a unique (and adorable) jab, unique up and side smashes, etc. She's a strange inverse scenario compared to someone like say, Lucas or Falco who are bound to their source character via special moves and have largely unique normals. While Isabelle's specials are partially derivative, in that she shares an animation for her Down B, they work to establish a different gameplan. Meanwhile, her air game is near identical to Villager's with the exception of a functionally similar but visually different nair. It is admittedly odd that Sakurai introduced so many new concepts only to fall back on these, but he did provide plenty of fresh concepts too.

This is speculation on my end too, as most of these points are going to be, but I want to say Isabelle was potentially a victim of time crunch. It feels incohesive to have a kit that dabbles in these game-changing unique ideas but then retreads ground for slingshot aerials and the butterfly net grab. At the very least, I'd like to see them shed this away next game when they can commit more time to her, and I expect they might. But there's something else worth acknowledging about Isabelle - her role and her attitude are much more similar to a standard aloof townie in Animal Crossing. At least compared to Tom Nook - the business mogul, the shopkeep, the mild mannered fellow. These inform his moveset in an entirely different way, and I'd say he has more to concretely work with than Isabelle does (but lacked the prevalence at the time of Ultimate's roster-crafting). I don't expect him to be frolicking around happy-go-lucky with a slingshot and a butterfly net. I feel like if I can recognize this, Sakurai is capable of doing so as well. But I digress, we'll see what happens.

 

[HyperSomari64]

I think I saw either Skyrim or The Witcher, but I can't remember which...

One is already in Smash through a Mii costume, and the other is based on a book.

 

[Lionfranky]

What are some western properties that are popular in Japan? I know StarCraft is really popular in South Korea but I’m not sure whether it’s popular in Japan as well. How popular is something like League of Legends or World of WarCraft compared to Halo or Crash?

WoW itself isn't popular from what I've gathered. Same for LOL. But, I've seen plenty of Japanese streamer playing Hearthstone.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

y'know I never really gave Bubbles a second look whenever people mention her being fighter potential, but now that I have, I think she'd actually make a really unique retro rep. the whole gimmick of grabbing poles to re-orient her direction could be translated into Smash by giving her a move where she can grab the edges of soft platforms during knockback to redirect her momentum, letting her fly at another angle of her choosing (assuming the move is timed and positioned right).

...wectoring, but as an intended mechanic!

Wait which Bubbles? The only one I can think of is PPG, and that's not a video game character.

 

[Perkilator]

Wait which Bubbles? The only one I can think of is PPG, and that's not a video game character.

Bubbles from Clu Clu Land. I made a moveset for her, actually.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Bubbles from Clu Clu Land. I made a moveset for her, actually.

"Bubbles Brings it Around Town" is such a genius tagline for her, like bruh

Read through it just now. It's good! My favorite moves are the edge attack, down B, and especially that Final Smash, it's seriously creative.

 

[Perkilator]

"Bubbles Brings it Around Town" is such a genius tagline for her, like bruh

Read through it just now. It's good! My favorite moves are the edge attack, down B, and especially that Final Smash, it's seriously creative.

Thanks! And speaking of movesets, I just finished one for Athena Asamiya.

Spoiler: Athena moveset

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

Isabelle kinda needs the slingshot though. She has no Lloyd Rocket, she's slow and floaty and her attacks have very little range. Slingshot is the only way she has to put some pressure into her opponents.
That move in particular I believe has stayed because of gameplay considerations. You'd have to rework her whole kit a lot in order to get rid of it, and she'd probably have to become fast and aggressive like Mario or as hard-hitting as Incineroar... Unless they also change her neutral B to a projectile or something to compensate for the loss of the slingshot.
My two cents.

About 1st party characters, I love the weirdos as much as everyone else, but they're not going to fill the roster with the likes of Sukapon, Lolo, Chibi Robo or Saki. It's way more likely to just get a bunch of recent faces, which is fine but those don't really excite me that much personally.
I'd very much welcome the likes of Tom Nook, Waluigi, Dixie, Isaac, Toad, Zelda anything... But again, I can't see many of them actually get in with how many times they've all been skipped over.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do you just say things like this to make people upset?

I said because it's true. If someone literally has "hundreds of first party characters" they want in Smash, then they clearly DO NOT CARE who gets in, and will agree with ANYTHING suggested.

That...or they're just really big Pokemon/FE fans.

There's nothing wrong with supporting a niche Nintendo character that you love and have a personal attachment

He didn't say "a character". Or "a few characters". Or even "a bunch of characters". He said "hundreds".

Nobody actually cares about that many characters. It's disingenuous.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

You know, thinking about it, after Hades got a Spirit.....be afraid.

Spoiler

Be very afraid. :V

And watch it be an Enhancable Spirit that becomes a solo Monika...

 

[DarthEnderX]

I feel like third parties have to be iconic on some level to be in smash. The biggest outlier to this was Terry.

I think Terry is more iconic than Joker or Bayonetta.

Debating what counts as iconic is a losing battle.

every time people start listing off their top smash picks for a certain criteria, i feel the urge to stop what i'm doing and make an image since i like visualizing stuff more that way (and possibly ocd)

Hey. Sometimes it's just fun to do some photoshop.

 

[Gorgonzales]

You know, thinking about it, after Hades got a Spirit.....be afraid.

Spoiler

Be very afraid. :V

And watch it be an Enhancable Spirit that becomes a solo Monika...

Spoiler

full circle.

 

[YeppersPeppers]

Bracing for an Among Us spirit.