Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Gengar84]

If we're talking the same Smash game, then nope. They seem to like catching fans by surprise. Adding things like spirits or Mii costumes would set up expectations and speculations that would obviously ruin the surprise and shock factor if the character were to actually get in. If they don't have any content, then they still have a chance of getting in. If they do, then their chances are slim to none.

Yeah that or the scenario that we got Master Chief as a spirit in this latest Ultimate wave and then he’s a newcomer in the next game. I feel like that would ruin the surprise as well a bit.

 

[SPEN18]

Yeah one of the biggest points people are missing has literally nothing to do with third party negotiations and costs themselves (though those are clearly important considerations, too). It's just how many first party series experienced significant growth in the Switch era, all of which Nintendo is going to be highly motivated to continue to promote and sustain success for. There's almost no point in listing them all because it's been fairly well-documented; up and down Nintendo's franchise lineup you can come up with easily feasible candidates. There's not enough space for all the characters I think they'd like to add, which is the exact opposite of this "add Waluigi and we're good" mentality I see from some fans. You add on top of that an unprecedented number of vets to retain, and the roster fills up super-quick.

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, I’m inspired to try something. Whenever I make a list here of my most wanted characters, I always either just have a few first party characters or leave them out altogether. I’ll try to make a most wanted list limited to first party with the requirement that I feel like they need to at least have a somewhat decent chance so I don’t just list all my favorites with no basis.

1) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
2) Officer Howard
3) Noah and Mio (Ouroboros fusion)
4) Dixie Kong (with animal buddies)
5) Impa (Hyrule Warriors)
6) Rauru
7) Raven Beak or EMMI
8) Medusa
9) The Black Knight
10) Isaac

I know I left out a lot of the most popular picks as well as a lot of my favorite niche characters but I think this would be a good list of plausible characters I’d be happy to see.

 

[Wonder Smash]

Yeah that or the scenario that we got Master Chief as a spirit in this latest Ultimate wave and then he’s a newcomer in the next game. I feel like that would ruin the surprise as well a bit.

Yeah, it could ruin the surprise a bit for the next game but would still depend on when he would be revealed. If he was the very last spirit in Ultimate and then the very last DLC character in the next game, then expectations about him would most likely have died down a lot by that point.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

The thing

I think the more compelling factor in this conversation is how Microsoft has provided Banjo-Kazooie, Goldeneye and Jet Force Gemini for NSO. This represents a really big step for me, one where Microsoft is asking for very little in return to let Nintendo lend out legacy Rareware content. It tells me they're pretty serious about this relationship and particularly about keeping Banjo in the family. I'm certain that they'll continue to be involved with Smash.

The thing with Banjo is that Megaman and Simon fulfill a similar role in a "this one's for the fans" kind of way (and they even play kinda similarly come to think of it, clunky mid-range zoners), and Megaman is not getting cut.
If Konami is that much easier to work with, might as well grab Simon and also Snake at the price of just Banjo. But maybe they'd want to keep Steve over anyone else? And Banjo comes with him.
Or maybe they keep all three? But Sega and Namco are going to stay, and at that point you have already brought Capcom, Konami and Microsoft in the mix. Plus I'm sure they'll never cut Cloud (he's one of the most played characters period, and I don't get why everyone seems so sure he can't be in the base game when that's literally what happened last time), so Square would be in too. Maybe a little too much for base game?
Or maybe they sacrifice a few of these characters in order to keep Sora, the Ballot winner.

It's just impossible to predict what they'll want to do. Past the usual trio of Sonic, Megaman and Pac-man + Bayonetta as basically a Nintendo character, I think nobody is safe, though there's merit in keeping everyone of course.
...Unless they just do some kind of Ultimate 2.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Reminder that we are +10 pages away for 1000.

 

[BuckleyTim]

Only time they gave a series dlc content only to give it even more afterwards in Smash Ultimate's runtime IIRC was Tekken, and even that was possibly to mess with people's expectations since the heihachi costume was a known entity.

Yeah, it could ruin the surprise a bit for the next game but would still depend on when he would be revealed. If he was the very last spirit in Ultimate and then the very last DLC character in the next game, then expectations about him would most likely have died down a lot by that point.

You really want that "finishes the fight" tagline, don't you :3

Jokes aside, I think they could certainly do something like that, but I think adding Mr halo to smash isnt something that's gonna come with a premonition. Granted, if they wanted every American hardcore gamer to eagerly watch every Nintendo direct for the next few years in anticipation they could do that lol

 

[Gengar84]

Even though Master Chief isn’t on my most wanted list, I would feel really bad for his fans if we did get a spirit in Ultimate so they hyped themselves up and then never ended up being playable in the following game. I know that scenario is already true for a ton of characters but most of them don’t have the same levels of hype that Chief would bring.

 

[Louie G.]

It's just impossible to predict what they'll want to do. Past the usual trio of Sonic, Megaman and Pac-man + Bayonetta as basically a Nintendo character, I think nobody is safe, though there's merit in keeping everyone of course.

Of course, although I'd probably swap out Bayonetta in favor of Ryu here. I understand the case for Bayo returning is very strong but Street Fighter has all the reason in the world to stick around. There's plenty of room for both on the roster but Ryu is someone we should be certain about. In any case...

I'm not saying Banjo (or Steve) is an absolute lock to return next game but I am personally convinced that this repeated behavior from Microsoft shows that they're invested in keeping this relationship going rather than letting it remain this one time thing, which in turn means they'll probably be involved with Smash again when the time comes. Especially since now they have like, pretty much every highly requested western character who isn't Rayman under their belt.

Whether or not that means Banjo and Steve will both return is yet to be seen, but I expect at least one of them on the base roster with a likely lay-up newcomer as DLC (probably Chief). We're talking one of the most requested characters of all time, and one of the most popular games in the world here.

 

[Gengar84]

I think I’m one of the few here that really wants more RARE characters in Smash. I grew up loving their games and I’ve always closely associated them with Nintendo since that was the platform I played all their games on. Nintendo and RARE also had a very close partnership for years so there’s history there. Beyond just having a personal affinity for their characters and games, I think they strike the perfect middle ground of third party characters that still very much feel like Nintendo characters. Maybe that’s just my age showing though lol.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Regarding first parties, they're not at a loss for Nintendo characters to add. They've still got plenty of options. However, I do think that they can (and should imo) focus on refining the first party characters we already have (and some 3rds but that's another discussion), because "everyone is here" does not equate to "everyone is great!" There are many of characters who made it into Smash but... still have a lot of nagging problems with them. Some to the point where it only feels like they're half-here.

I fully believe there is a value to updating and refining the veterans over receiving a ridiculous number of newcomers. A value that just isn't frequently discussed in the Smash space because it feels like everyone is just hyper-fixated on newcomers. Overhauling kits like Ganondorf, Little Mac, and Olimar, and making not-as-drastic-but-still-pretty-significant changes to characters like Wario, Ridley, DK, Mewtwo, Samus, etc I feel would really go a long way and bot only help them feel more true to their characters but help them remain special and not feel like you're checking off a list whenever they're brought back for a new title.

 

[fogbadge]

I think I’m one of the few here that really wants more RARE characters in Smash. I grew up loving their games and I’ve always closely associated them with Nintendo since that was the platform I played all their games on. Nintendo and RARE also had a very close partnership for years so there’s history there. Beyond just having a personal affinity for their characters and games, I think they strike the perfect middle ground of third party characters that still very much feel like Nintendo characters. Maybe that’s just my age showing though lol.

believe it or not but I’m up for a via piñata character

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Zelda and Splatoon Digital Concerts announced by Nintendo!

 

[MasterCheef]

interesting update. Switch 2 announcement soon ?

https://x.com/NintendoAmerica/status/1749963072998166670?s=20

 

[dream1ng]

It's not an absence of first-party choices, but it is the case that the first-party choices they have are not nearly as prominent generally / important within their series as the headliners of past games.

I know people are going to disagree and potentially frame it by looking at the most niche of past inclusions or conflate what I've said with "scraping the bottom of the barrel" (which is not what I've said), but take any amount of the top Nintendo candidates and compare it to the most impactful characters from a past Smash game. Because those are the ones that are going to immediately resonate to the most consumers. Especially when you consider that characters like Toad and Tom Nook... probably aren't going to happen.

Now you have, like, the ninth or tenth most prominent Mario character, the fourth main character of a high b-tier Nintendo series, the third or fourth most prevalent Kong, a potentially recurring but maybe one-off Zelda character, a character a lot of people will probably think is Inkling, whichever current Pokemon they're promoting who is a complete crapshoot in lasting appeal, the lead of a dead RPG that was decently successful over twenty years ago, and the main character from Nintendo's very successful recent supercasual game.

I would say the closest you'd get to that would be 4's first-party lineup, which imo is currently the lowest in terms of average scale. But even then, when you have Villager, the Miis, Rosalina, Bowser Jr and Greninja, I think that trumps whichever five of what remains you would nominate as the "biggest".

I mean, it's the faces of Nintendo and the big third-parties which resonate the widest anyway, and on that basis (and its own reputation) the game will obviously still have the masses flock towards it. But yeah - what we have now in terms of first-parties on average isn't nearly as pedigreed as what they've added the previous times. That's part of why the third-party selection will continue to grow, compensating for it.

 

[MasterCheef]

most wanted characters ; 1st & 2nd party Nintendo

1 ) = Iron Valiant : Pokemon
2 ) = Officer Howard : Astral Chain
3 ) = Impa / Paya : LoZ
4 ) = Noah & Mio : Xenoblade
5 ) = Tabuu : SSBB

 

[Louie G.]

Especially when you consider that characters like Tom Nook... probably aren't going to happen.

Why? I get why you'd say that about Toad, being a viable choice since Melee, but it's not as if Tom Nook had a lot of opportunities. Villager was added in Smash 4 and then Isabelle in Ultimate, the latter with especially limited roster space. If he misses the boat this time, I think it'd be fair to suggest maybe they're not interested but seeing how Animal Crossing just got its biggest break ever with New Horizons I'm certain it will be a point of conversation. Building on its main cast one at a time isn't particularly strange.

a character a lot of people will probably think is Inkling

You're really selling Splatoon short here. Octoling is functionally identical to Inkling, yeah, but they're not the only option and the series is one of Nintendo's strongest running at the moment. Adding Octavio or one of the idol groups would be roughly equivalent to the scale of certain Brawl additions in respect to series importance. Splatoon is fairly young of course, but it's been building a strong cast.

I get what you mean with the others, and I agree with the sentiment to some extent. We're looking at a scenario somewhat similar to Smash 4, just less new IPs to draw from and more growth within the ones we already have. There will be more third parties, just probably not half the roster and likely under different conditions than we've seen before. It's kinda weird to think about, we really don't have a "normal" precedent for how third parties operate since Sonic is the only one that has ever returned in a non-EIH scenario. For all we know they could be clearing house and starting fresh (but like... they won't lol).

 

[Hadokeyblade]

There's probably enough unique weapons in Splatoon that you could make a second character for them in smash.

 

[dream1ng]

Why ? I get why you'd say that about Toad, being a viable choice since Melee, but it's not as if Tom Nook had a lot of opportunities. Villager was added in Smash 4 and then Isabelle in Ultimate, the latter with especially limited roster space. If he misses the boat this time, I think it'd be fair to suggest maybe they're not interested but seeing how Animal Crossing just got its biggest break ever with New Horizons I'm certain it will be a point of conversation.

Because I think Sakurai struggles devising material for AC fighters and I don't think we're going to get a second Villager derivative.

If Isabelle wasn't unique (but also seemingly wasn't low priority) I don't have faith Tom Nook would be. Which isn't to say I don't think he could be. But who knows, maybe Sakurai came up with something else for an AC character in all this time.

You're really selling Splatoon short here. Octoling is functionally identical to Inkling, yeah, but they're not the only option and the series is one of Nintendo's strongest running at the moment. Adding Octavio or one of the idol groups would be roughly equivalent to the scale of certain Brawl additions particularly in respect to series importance. Splatoon is fairly young of course, but it's been building a strong cast.

Yeah but do you think those characters are likelier than Octoling? Part of the list is based on who we'd actually receive, and others seem a dark horse.

I do think the idol groups (particularly the first) would be equivalent in scale to some bigger earlier additions, I just am entirely skeptical that's who we get. And past not anticipating him, I don't think Octavio is bigger than Octoling. I think he'd be more unique, but I think Octoling is more well known.

I mean it's also selling Pokemon short to reduce it to a promotional gamble, it has a ton of hugely familiar names left. I, likewise, am just not banking on them. But it's possible it gets two characters.

 

[Scrimblo Bimblo]

A conveyor belt of recent Switch characters would feel pretty lame to me, to be honest. I already didn't really love the Smash 4 line-up and that one had Villager, Little Mac and Shulk who were all pretty warranted and fresh-feeling.

With all due respect to their fans, but an Inkling semiclone, another fitness trainer, the 9th Fire Emblem lord and yet another sci-fi swordsman wouldn't really compensate the loss of most, or even just a bunch, of Ultimate's weirdo characters to me.
Astral Chain dude I think is the most interesting option (aside from Rauru using Link's TotK powers) but games like that usually end up Assist Trophy'd.
Heck I love Metroid and I'm not even sure Raven Beak would actually do that much for me.

 

[Louie G.]

Because I think Sakurai struggles devising material for AC fighters and I don't think we're going to get a second Villager derivative.

If Isabelle wasn't unique (but also seemingly wasn't low priority) I don't have faith Tom Nook would be.

To be fair, we got three Star Fox characters built off the same general kit - all lower priority later additions, but you catch my drift. Fox, Falco and Wolf all manage to feel distinct from each other post-Melee. I can understand your perspective, but I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to see Tom Nook using a similar set of tools with unique normals better tailored to his personality and his identity (the tanooki stuff writes itself). I mean hell, even Isabelle has two brand new special moves. Her moveset is kinda weirdly segmented, I would hope it gets rounded out next game.

New Horizons will have likely inspired some new material too, whatever that may be. So I'd leave this door open and see if Sakurai got any new ideas.

Yeah but do you think those characters are likelier than Octoling? Part of the list is based on who we'd actually receive, and others seem a dark horse.

I do think the idol groups (particularly the first) would be equivalent in scale to some bigger earlier additions, I just am entirely skeptical that's who we get. And past not anticipating him, I don't think Octavio is bigger than Octoling. I think he'd be more unique, but I think Octoling is more well known.

I don't believe any of them are more likely than Octoling, Octoling will be in the game 100%. To what extent that will be is up in the air, it can fluctuate from a literal palette swap to an echo, or a semiclone, all the way to a unique character with a different weapon loadout. If it's one of those easier avenues that minimize the amount of dev time sunk into Octoling, I personally see them expanding on Splatoon even further. But fair enough, it's definitely conditional.

With all due respect to their fans, but an Inkling semiclone, another fitness trainer, the 9th Fire Emblem lord and yet another sci-fi swordsman wouldn't really compensate the loss of most, or even just a bunch, of Ultimate's weirdo characters to me.

I think the problem is that people have convinced themselves this is all we're getting. Most of those don't really excite me either but there is no precedent for any batch of newcomers to simply be a revolving door of characters from the last five years. We have to keep our minds a little more open than this.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

The fact that they announced Princess Peach Showtime information yesterday and now Splatoon Side Order DLC release date today... both things that seem like they would be in a Direct, it does make me wonder about a February Direct actually happening...

 

[RileyXY1]

The fact that they announced Princess Peach Showtime information yesterday and now Splatoon Side Order DLC release date today... both things that seem like they would be in a Direct, it does make me wonder about a February Direct actually happening...

Of course such a trailer would probably be focused on unveiling the next console, as it's been heavily rumored for a while.

 

[fogbadge]

I really don’t like the notion that characters have to be iconic or big to be in smash. and I particularly dislike it when it’s used to suggest to are no more interesting first party characters. let’s face it what you probably mean is there’s no more first party characters that interest you personally. some of us have hundreds of first party characters we’d love to have more than some of the most popular third parties. as for likelihood that’s anyone guess, sakurai is not exactly a man of rigid patterns

 

[DarthEnderX]

Alright, I’m inspired to try something. Whenever I make a list here of my most wanted characters, I always either just have a few first party characters or leave them out altogether. I’ll try to make a most wanted list limited to first party with the requirement that I feel like they need to at least have a somewhat decent chance so I don’t just list all my favorites with no basis.

My 1st party Wishlist

Fighters
Captain Toad/Toadette [Treasure Tracker]
King Hippo [Punch-Out]

Echoes
Ninten [Ness]
Black Shadow [Captain Falcon]
Impa [Sheik]
Galacta Knight [Meta Knight]
Black Knight [Ike]
Charizard [Pokemon Trainer]
Dixie Kong [Diddy Kong]
Octolings [Inklings]

Bosses
Mother Brain [Metroid]
Andross [Star Fox]
Arceus [Pokemon]
Porky [Earthbound]
Medusa [Kid Icarus]

 

[HyperSomari64]

what characters that people clamor for Smash right now will be assist trophies for the next game?

 

[DarthEnderX]

some of us have hundreds of first party characters we’d love to have more than some of the most popular third parties.

That just means those people lack any sort of discerning taste and will say yes to literally anything mentioned.

what characters that people clamor for Smash right now will be assist trophies for the next game?

Waluigi.

 

[Louie G.]

That just means those people lack any sort of discerning taste and will say yes to literally anything mentioned.

Do you just say things like this to make people upset? I don't want to even indulge this but it's just so rude that I had to.

There's nothing wrong with supporting a niche Nintendo character that you love and have a personal attachment to vs a huge third party character that you have no attachment to and just accept because everyone else says they deserve it. If anything staying committed to your controversial smaller picks is quite a lot more of a discerning taste than simply vouching for the most iconic third party characters. I feel like you of all people should know that.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd love King Hippo too.

 

[GoldenYuiitusin]

Do you just say things like this to make people upset? I don't want to even indulge this but it's just so rude that I had to.

There's nothing wrong with supporting a niche Nintendo character that you love and have a personal attachment to vs a huge third party character that you have no attachment to and just accept because everyone else says they deserve it. If anything staying committed to your controversial smaller picks is quite a lot more of a discerning taste than simply vouching for the most iconic third party characters. I feel like you of all people should know that.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd love King Hippo too.

I think it should be clear by now it's "anything that isn't what I like is bad and you should feel bad for liking it".

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I really don’t like the notion that characters have to be iconic or big to be in smash. and I particularly dislike it when it’s used to suggest to are no more interesting first party characters. let’s face it what you probably mean is there’s no more first party characters that interest you personally. some of us have hundreds of first party characters we’d love to have more than some of the most popular third parties. as for likelihood that’s anyone guess, sakurai is not exactly a man of rigid patterns

I feel like third parties have to be iconic on some level to be in smash. The biggest outlier to this was Terry.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Alright, I’m inspired to try something. Whenever I make a list here of my most wanted characters, I always either just have a few first party characters or leave them out altogether. I’ll try to make a most wanted list limited to first party with the requirement that I feel like they need to at least have a somewhat decent chance so I don’t just list all my favorites with no basis.

1) Zoroark/Hisuian Zoroark
2) Officer Howard
3) Noah and Mio (Ouroboros fusion)
4) Dixie Kong (with animal buddies)
5) Impa (Hyrule Warriors)
6) Rauru
7) Raven Beak or EMMI
8) Medusa
9) The Black Knight
10) Isaac

I know I left out a lot of the most popular picks as well as a lot of my favorite niche characters but I think this would be a good list of plausible characters I’d be happy to see.

1. Paper Mario
2. Impa (BoTW/ToTK)
3. Off the Hook
4. Toadette
5. Octoling
6. Dixie Kong
7. Master Kohga
8. Alear or Veronica from Fire Emblem Heroes
9. Waluigi [or any other Mario character tbh]
10. Excitebiker

Here’s my personal picks for first parties

 

[Mushroomguy12]

1. Dixie Kong
2. Impa
3. Toad/Toadette
4. Octoling
5. Isaac
6. Alear
7. Krystal
8. XB3 Duo
9. Officer Howard
10. Ring Fit Trainer

 

[Gengar84]

Do you just say things like this to make people upset? I don't want to even indulge this but it's just so rude that I had to.

There's nothing wrong with supporting a niche Nintendo character that you love and have a personal attachment to vs a huge third party character that you have no attachment to and just accept because everyone else says they deserve it. If anything staying committed to your controversial smaller picks is quite a lot more of a discerning taste than simply vouching for the most iconic third party characters. I feel like you of all people should know that.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd love King Hippo too.

I completely agree with this. There’s a ton of niche characters I support for Smash. While I acknowledge that the big name characters are probably more “deserving”, I don’t personally care about that. For example, I think I’m literally the only person who will ever care about Zegram for Smash and I’m okay with that. He has no realistic chance to ever make it in but he’s my personal favorite game character so I came up with a whole concept and moveset for him if he did get in. I doubt anyone here would even have any idea who the character is if I never talked about him lol.

 

[Louie G.]

I feel like third parties have to be iconic on some level to be in smash. The biggest outlier to this was Terry.

Bayonetta and Banjo & Kazooie are not exactly king of the hill either. They definitely had special circumstances involved, and I do think precedent goes to the characters who like... pioneered genres or whatever, but the further down the list we go with third parties the less your standard is gonna ring true. Besides, Terry does fulfill the aforementioned quota, he's just more of an unsung hero of his genre. Albeit loudly sung by fans of said genre.

Bottom line though - I think holding onto this idea is just begging to be proven wrong later, if your metric of who doesn't otherwise qualify is Terry Bogard.

I’ll try to make a most wanted list limited to first party with the requirement that I feel like they need to at least have a somewhat decent chance

Sort of a rough order, but lemme give it a shot. Probably going to forget a bunch but I'd be happy with anything here.

1. Chorus Kids / any Rhythm Heaven character
2. Marx
3. Porky Minch
4. Mach Rider
5. Lip
6. Saki Amamiya
7. Off the Hook or DJ Octavio... any music based Splatoon character
8. Tom Nook
9. Waluigi
10. Anna

 

[dream1ng]

To be fair, we got three Star Fox characters built off the same general kit - all lower priority later additions, but you catch my drift. Fox, Falco and Wolf all manage to feel distinct from each other post-Melee. I can understand your perspective, but I don't think it takes a lot of imagination to see Tom Nook using a similar set of tools with unique normals better tailored to his personality and his identity (the tanooki stuff writes itself).

Though I think the irregularity of the Fox situation (when the goal isn't to have every character ever) on the roster is a testament to how it's generally avoided (and assuming we get cuts, I think a "second clone" is probably gonna get axed in most applicable situations), but I won't argue that at the clone-hunting stage of the roster being built, he may turn to Tom Nook. I suppose I wasn't focusing much on who the padding might be.

Though that also brings into question how much padding we will get. We don't get much in rosters with "sufficiently" sizeable base newcomer selections, like Brawl and 4. Guess that's something we'll just have to wait and see on.

And forget unique normals, I don't think it would be that hard to devise a second unique moveset for AC. This is absolute conjecture, but between turning AC down for Brawl yet it continuing to be a very large, important series for Nintendo, maybe Executive With Glasses was the one who "suggested" Sakurai give it another crack (like with Minecraft), which lead to Villager. But he still struggles to envision AC fighters, which is why Isabelle wasn't original, yet was prioritized, which is otherwise quite rare.

New Horizons will have likely inspired some new material too, whatever that may be. So I'd leave this door open and see if Sakurai got any new ideas.

I mean he had four games and two spin-offs and still made Isabelle a semi-clone.

I don't believe any of them are more likely than Octoling, Octoling will be in the game 100%. To what extent that will be is up in the air, it can fluctuate from a literal palette swap to an echo, or a semiclone, all the way to a unique character with a different weapon loadout. If it's one of those easier avenues that minimize the amount of dev time sunk into Octoling, I personally see them expanding on Splatoon even further. But fair enough, it's definitely conditional.

Fwiw I'd prefer either of the other two options.

And tbf even if they added, like, Callie & Marie, it would bolster the familiarity of the selection but when comparing it to past groups of newcomers, I still think my original point would stand.

 

[Perkilator]

The fact that they announced Princess Peach Showtime information yesterday and now Splatoon Side Order DLC release date today... both things that seem like they would be in a Direct, it does make me wonder about a February Direct actually happening...

Friendly reminder, for everyone:

Today's Princess Peach Showtime trailer does not deconfirm a February 2024 Nintendo Direct. pic.twitter.com/E5wWxWIXnu

— tee (@teebeeYT) January 23, 2024

 

[dream1ng]

I really don’t like the notion that characters have to be iconic or big to be in smash. and I particularly dislike it when it’s used to suggest to are no more interesting first party characters.

Well I didn't say any of that.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Bayonetta and Banjo & Kazooie are not exactly king of the hill either. They definitely had special circumstances involved, and I do think precedent goes to the characters who like... pioneered genres or whatever, but the further down the list we go with third parties the less your standard is gonna ring true. Besides, Terry does fulfill the aforementioned quota, he's just more of an unsung hero of his genre. Albeit loudly sung by fans of said genre.

Bottom line though - I think holding onto this idea is just begging to be proven wrong later, if your metric of who doesn't otherwise qualify is Terry Bogard.

I WANT it to be proven wrong. lol

Some of the third parties i want to see fall into this category

 

[dream1ng]

Debating what counts as iconic is a losing battle.

 

[Speed Weed]

Terry is in this scenario where he and SNK aren't like.....mainstream mainstream, but to anyone who follows fighting games or arcade games or what have you, these names are legendary. They're not something the average Joe on the street will know about, but they're extremely impactful and popular within their circles - if anyone is interested in old arcade game history, I recommend looking through old scans or data archives or whathaveyou of big JP mags like Gamest and Monthly Arcadia, especially the big fan awards they held every year, because those are not only generally a very good time capsule of JP arcade culture between about the late 80s and the 2000s-ish, they really show how much of a totemic presence SNK were in that scene, particularly in the 90s. They were one of The Bigguns. I think it's just a matter of very little overlap with the Smash fandom's tastes - like, yeah of course someone who's mostly grown up playing Nintendo games will raise their eyebrows at an inclusion with such a distinctly arcade-based impact. But Sakurai's also the kind of guy to spend his YouTubing days playing Crazy Climber and Fantasy Zone with Shinya gotdamn Arino - dude's clearly got some arcade-rat blood in him, and based on the anecdotes he's shared over the years (most famously him smoking a young couple at KoF), he'd likely have been in the exact periphery that was most directly impacted by SNK's output. So I say it tracks.

That's not going into potential business motives, like how all the Neo Geo games on Arcade Archives were a big deal in the Switch's early days, but I digress