Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Schnee117]

That doesnt really count because thats just Capcom taking an old online game and making it available after the servers shut down.

It's not even that old and most companies don't make offline versions of their online games either
It 1000% counts

 

[Hadokeyblade]

1. Kiryu
2. Kiryu
3. Kiryu
4. Kiryu
5. KIIIRYU-CHAN!

Putting Kiryu in smash can give you many Sega games by proxy, since, for those that never played these games, you can play old Sega games in the arcades scattered throughout the city in Yakuza.

So you could put Puyo puyo music and label it under "Yakuza" in my music

 

[HyperSomari64]

1. Kiryu
2. Kiryu
3. Kiryu
4. Kiryu
5. KIIIRYU-CHAN!

Yeah, SE sold all their western properties to Embracer Group.

Yeah, I could see them in Smash.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

The one problem is that literally most of Sega's franchises are long dead and haven't got anything new making them kind of forgotten...

When was the last time we got a Jet Set Radio game or a new Ecco the Dolphin?

A new Jet Set got leaked alongside P3R earlier this year so by the time next smash rolls around it’ll be fresh.

 

[Gengar84]

My SEGA knowledge is admittedly a bit limited having never owned a console beyond the Dreamcast I bought for $30 after it was already said. That said, here’s the five I’d be personally most excited to see:

Knuckles (Sonic)
Mitsuru Kirijo (Persona 3)
Estelle Aguiarre (Streets of Rage 4)
Vectorman (Vectorman)
Nahobino (Shin Megami Tensei 5)

Not saying any of these are particularly likely, just that I’d be happy to see them get in.

 

[CannonStreak]

Here's my list here.

Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
Vectorman (Vectorman)
NiGHTS (NiGHTS: Into Dreams)
Amigo (Samba de Amigo)
Beat (Jet Set Radio)

Those are my picks.

 

[Gengar84]

Here's my list here.

Dr. Eggman (Sonic)
Vectorman (Vectorman)
NiGHTS (NiGHTS: Into Dreams)
Amigo (Samba de Amigo)
Beat (Jet Set Radio)

Those are my picks.

Nights is another good one. I almost picked her over Nahobino because I like her design more. I went with an SMT rep because I want to see a character with a summoner mechanic and I’m familiar with the summons in SMT having played Personas 3-5.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Nights is a character who i think fits better as an assist trophy.

Im not really sure how you would translate the gameplay of a nights game into a platform fighter.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Here goes nothing:
1. Tails (Sonic)
2. Shadow (Sonic)
3. Selvaria (Valkyria Chronicles)
4. Violet (Persona)
5. A Power Instinct rep

As a bonus, Reiji and Xiaomu (Cross)

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Here goes nothing:
1. Tails (Sonic)
2. Shadow (Sonic)
3. Selvaria (Valkyria Chronicles)
4. Violet (Persona)
5. A Power Instinct rep

As a bonus, Reiji and Xiaomu (Cross)

Selvaria feels like a weird choice considering she's one of the franchise's main villains, wouldnt Alicia make more sense?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Selvaria feels like a weird choice considering she's one of the franchise's main villains, wouldnt Alicia make more sense?

That's fine, I really like to see more villains in Smash. (even before any of the protagonist)
The same can pply with secondary characters.

 

[Garteam]

Legacy is infinitely more important for third parties in Smash than relevancy in terms of new releases. Mega Man, Castlevania, Pac-Man, Metal Gear, and Banjo-Kazooie had all seen far better days at the time of Ultimate, but these series are still incredibly popular and they're often regarded as having some of the best retro games of all time.

I think Kiryu, Arle, and additional Sonic characters also dominate Sega discussions for Smash for this reason. Series like Phantasy Star, Sakura Wars, and Streets of Rage are all really cool and could make for good Smash characters. However, the impact of Yazuka, Puyo Puyo, and especially Sonic on pop culture and the games industry is so vast that it's tough to not be drowned out by playable characters from these series.

 

[Gengar84]

That's fine, I really like to see more villains in Smash. (even before any of the protagonist)
The same can pply with secondary characters.

I agree. My main example is Id prefer Magus over Crono but there are many others. Off the top of my head, I’d prefer Kerrigan, Diablo, Medusa (I’d have liked her before Palutena or Dark Pit), Jenna Anderson, Diablo, Fulgore, Nightmare, and Lu Bu.

 

[Speed Weed]

Selvaria feels like a weird choice considering she's one of the franchise's main villains, wouldnt Alicia make more sense?

Alicia is probably the better choice but Selvaria is an extremely popular and iconic character within the series and has been the rep in crossovers before so I can see the argument for her

 

[TriggerX]

I hope they just don’t do some kind of enhanced port of smash. I’d rather see them announce a new game, or at least a port with some big additions besides characters.

I could see them adding Rayman, Geno, Waluigi, maybe some Metroid rep, and Dr Eggman, Master Chief, Dixie Kong, and maybe some other Pokémon character.
I think we’d get at least 5 new characters.

 

[Speed Weed]

also I've said this before but I continue to find it weird that ppl lump Streets of Rage in with stuff like Sakura Wars, Phantasy Star, Puyo or Yakuza as "the Big Hitters of SEGA". like don't get me wrong it's a great series but it is very much a cut below the others. the fourth game coming out likely wouldn't have any impact on Smash since, although well-recieved, it was an outsourced title to a western developer.

 

[fogbadge]

well if we're talking sega characters my picks would be tails and billy hatcher. also between 4 & 5 i'd very much like to see more persona stuff. bit early in 3 to be sure. failing that put joker an yu in the next sega all stars racing

there's other sega characters i'm open to even if i haven't played their games. mind you i keep losing track of who owns what with all the buying and selling in the industry

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Selvaria feels like a weird choice considering she's one of the franchise's main villains, wouldnt Alicia make more sense?

She's kind of like the mascot. She's comparable to Nightmare from Soul Calibur.

 

[RodNutTakin]

also I've said this before but I continue to find it weird that ppl lump Streets of Rage in with stuff like Sakura Wars, Phantasy Star, Puyo or Yakuza as "the Big Hitters of SEGA". like don't get me wrong it's a great series but it is very much a cut below the others. the fourth game coming out likely wouldn't have any impact on Smash since, although well-recieved, it was an outsourced title to a western developer.

this, the series went dormant before it could even hit the Saturn, didn't even get anything in any of the Superstars/All-Stars games. 4 was pretty much a passion project game on top of that as you mentioned.

 

[TheQuester]

I personally don't see how something like Puyo Puyo is "more niche" or "less likely" than Streets of Rage

Also yeah, I get being tired of the Sonic/Yakuza/Persona stream and all, but I feel like literally every time SEGA pops into discussion, someone pipes up like "wow they sure have a lot of dead franchises amirite fellas? ahyuckhyuck" to the point where they become almost entirely pigeonholed as The Dead Franchise Company and almost all discussion of them revolves around how they're an evil company that killed your family because they didn't make Ristar 2. Not only are they not unique in this regard - almost every major long-running video game company has a veritable backlog of dead properties - as has been pointed out, like....of course they're going to have a lot of dead series because they've been for over 60 years in the business and were insanely prolific. Not only that, but the main sticking point here is that a ton of the old major developers who worked on these old properties are not at the company anymore. They saw a huge exodus of major talent in the 2000s, and we've recently lost people like Kodama (who died) and Nagoshi (who was kicked out) as well. Sure, you could make new entries without them, and they look to be doing just that in the future, I'm just saying don't be surprised if a series whose creator left SEGA a while back hasn't gotten any new games in a while. It really feels like sometimes ppl forget that people make games, not companies, and that SEGA isn't a singular monolith that has remained entirely static for the past 40 or so years.

I'll be honest, like....I feel like there's often a bit of a divide between the way certain people talk about SEGA. You have the more hardcore fans who take a deeper interest in all the history and know how things work, and then you have the ppl whose SEGA exposure is more surface-level and mostly comes from stuff like All-Stars Racing or the Mega Drive collections, but who consider themselves just as much of an authority on the subject. And not to sound like a snob, but oftentimes it really feels like it's the latter group who keep regurgitating these narratives that are kind of false but have been repeated a million times and have become The Go-To Cool Thing To Say whenever SEGA is the topic, such as, indeed, the whole "SEGA hates their old games where's jet set radio 3" dealio. It's a low-hanging fruit. I can really tell the difference in perspectives here and it can get quite annoying.

I personally don't think Puyo Puyo is very likely and i don't think it's as well known as Streets of Rage or Like a Dragon, at least in the west, Puyo Puyo is definitely popular in Japan, though.
Could Puyo Puyo get a rep next game? Yes, everything is possible at this point.
Do i think it actually will? I have my doubts.
I personally don't think Sakurai will add a DLC character (I think Arle most likely will be DLC if she gets added) that is popular in Japan but not as popular elsewhere when they could add characters like Nahobino, Viola, Tails, Eggman, Knuckles, Axel, Ichiban, Kiryu, Red from the same company instead.
And about Capcom, i don't think Okami, Viewtiful Joe, Darkstalkers and etc are getting a rep either, i think Nintendo would add Chun-li, Dante, Chris Redfield or Phoenix Wright first because those characters come from more popular franchises.
I think those franchises are more likely to get a mii costume or an AT that a fighter, it's not impossible for them to get a rep, but i'm not expecting it
On the other hand, i think companies like NIS America or Falcom were it's games are mostly popular in Japan, are a diferent matter, since those characters are the most popular characters of the company.
We had 2 Fighter Pases and none of the 3rd party characters were a more "niche" pick from the companies at all, unless you count Banjo as niche (which i don't), but he got in for the enourmous fan demand and it's nintendo connection in the past, i think he's def not in the same cathegory as Arle, AiAi or Viewtiful Joe at all.

 

[Garteam]

also I've said this before but I continue to find it weird that ppl lump Streets of Rage in with stuff like Sakura Wars, Phantasy Star, Puyo or Yakuza as "the Big Hitters of SEGA". like don't get me wrong it's a great series but it is very much a cut below the others. the fourth game coming out likely wouldn't have any impact on Smash since, although well-recieved, it was an outsourced title to a western developer.

A lot of that probably comes down to the fact that Streets of Rage was a massive Sega-developed franchise in the Genesis' library that wasn't Sonic. The Genesis was by and far Sega's most popular hardware effort in North America, so it makes sense that games that did well on the platform would be heavily associated with Sega as a company in the consciousness of many. The series' North American popularity was probably a major factor in why Sega was open to an American dev making a fourth entry.

Sega is a pretty interesting company simply because their identity varies dramatically between regions. If you were to ask a North American and Japanese gamer about Nintendo and Capcom's biggest franchises, they'd probably give similar answers. Same thing with Konami, although a Japanese fan might add Goemon and/or TokiMemo to their list. For Sega? The North American fan would likely list series from the Genesis and Dreamcast eras, like Sonic, Toejam and Earl, and Jet Set Radio. Japanese fans would instead focus on series from the Saturn and arcades, like Virtua Fighter, Sakura Wars, and Puyo Puyo.

 

[Speed Weed]

A lot of that probably comes down to the fact that Streets of Rage was a massive Sega-developed franchise in the Genesis' library that wasn't Sonic. The Genesis was by and far Sega's most popular hardware effort in North America, so it makes sense that games that did well on the platform would be heavily associated with Sega as a company in the consciousness of many. The series' North American popularity was probably a major factor in why Sega was open to an American dev making a fourth entry.

Sega is a pretty interesting company simply because their identity varies dramatically between regions. If you were to ask a North American and Japanese gamer about Nintendo and Capcom's biggest franchises, they'd probably give similar answers. Same thing with Konami, although a Japanese fan might add Goemon and/or TokiMemo to their list. For Sega? The North American fan would likely list series from the Genesis and Dreamcast eras, like Sonic, Toejam and Earl, and Jet Set Radio. Japanese fans would instead focus on series from the Saturn and arcades, like Virtua Fighter, Sakura Wars, and Puyo Puyo.

No I totally get why it's so often in the convo, just that I don't think it matches up with how important it actually is to the company. It's not unimportant by any means, but it's definitely not on the level of a Virtua Fighter or a Puyo Puyo.

minor nitpick btw but the SoR4 devs were European

 

[RodNutTakin]

I'd say Puyo Puyo is well known enough in the West at this point compared to where it was at the beginning of Ultimate speculation. I'd say it's definitely at least more talked about in Smash circles over here than Like a Dragon is. I'd say it's at least Fatal Fury/King of Fighters tier here.

 

[TheQuester]

I'd say Puyo Puyo is well known enough in the West at this point compared to where it was at the beginning of Ultimate speculation. I'd say it's definitely at least more talked about in Smash circles over here than Like a Dragon is. I'd say it's at least Fatal Fury/King of Fighters tier here.

Joker, Terry and Sephiroth were barely talked about either in the community and that didn't stop them from joining, so it begin sighly more talked about in the community than Yakuza doesn't really matter much since the diference in popularity between Kiryu and Arle in the smash community isn't that huge like let's say the popularity between 2B and Tressa (Octopath) is in the smash community, you're definitely right that the Smash raised Puyo Puyo popularity in the west, but it'd still won't put it in a likely SEGA rep category either, i would be surprised if Nintendo picks it over SMT, Yakuza, Virtua Fighter or another Bayo or Sonic rep. I even think SoR has the edge, Axel seems like one of those characters Sakurai would pick.
However, i do think Arle has the edge over Sakura Wars, Super Monkey Ball, Jet Set Radio, Skies of Arcadia, Valkyria Chronicles, Golden Axe, Nights and etc...i just don't think it's going to be the next SEGA rep.

If you ask me, i think this is most from least likely:
Sonic rep
SMT
Like a Dragon
Virtua Fighter
Bayo rep
Streets of Rage
Puyo Puyo

Then there's Angry Birds, which i'm not sure if it's popular in Japan, so i'm leaving it out for now.

 

[Speed Weed]

I'm going to be blunt, there is absolutely no universe in which Streets of Rage is more likely to get in Smash than Puyo Puyo. The latter is a bigger deal in almost every way, the only thing Streets has going for it is that it's more popular with certain sects of the western audience but as a whole Puyo just blows it out of the water

 

[SPEN18]

Do you guys think TotK will get DLC?

You know honestly I haven't even really been thinking about that. But it would seem logical to support it with DLC, no?

I think it would be cool to see if they could come up with any new Zonai devices to add to what is already in the game.

 

[Gengar84]

I'm going to be blunt, there is absolutely no universe in which Streets of Rage is more likely to get in Smash than Puyo Puyo. The latter is a bigger deal in almost every way, the only thing Streets has going for it is that it's more popular with certain sects of the western audience but as a whole Puyo just blows it out of the water

I mean, Halo, Gears, and DOOM are a lot more generally popular than Banjo-Kazooie but they made it in as playable characters before any of those. The same can be said for Mega Man when you compare his series to Monster Hunter, Resident Evil or Devil May Cry. I know both of those characters largely made it in due to fan support but it shows that general popularity isn’t the only factor.

Beat ‘em Up characters are also just naturally suited for Smash where they can retain a large part of their existing movesets. I’m not saying that puzzle games can’t or shouldn’t get a playable character, just that they’d have to take more creative liberties to flesh out a moveset, which can either be good or bad depending on your preference. I just feel like some genres like fighting games, platformers, RPG’s, and Beat ‘em Ups work a bit better as a rule and are easier to implement so that’s another possible factor.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Do you guys think TotK will get DLC?

Like on one hand I feel like they would have said something by now if DLC was on the way.

But on the other hand the dissapearance of Kass is very suspicious, especially when he played an important part in BotW's DLC. You'd think they'd at least have him chilling in a town or something.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

At the end of the day the roster is decided based on either how popular a game is or simply because the smash team though "This is cool"

The latter is how someone like Terry got in.

 

[Perkilator]

At the end of the day the roster is decided based on either how popular a game is or simply because the smash team though "This is cool"

The latter is how someone like Terry got in.

This is usually my mindset for creating movesets as well.

 

[RodNutTakin]

I think the idea of a Like a Dragon character getting in next is something people might be overselling at this point in time. Every time we've gotten a character by and large associated with rival platforms, there's always been some sort of special circumstance that got them in.

Snake was a direct request from Hideo Kojima himself, and probably wouldn't have been in Brawl if Kojima wasn't insistent with wanting him in.

Cloud wasn't the immediate decision for a Final Fantasy character, and Nomura had suggested the protagonists from V and VI, which were more closely Nintendo-associated, but Cloud was ultimately chosen because Sakurai felt that since they were going to add a Final Fantasy character either way, it might as well be the franchise's most popular character, even if his game was nonexistent on Nintendo platforms at the time.

Richter more or less got in because of being able to be turned into an Echo for Simon, which also let the devteam merge the two Belmonts' techniques into one moveset as a result.

Joker's home game is explicitly a game that Sakurai really liked and had influenced certain aspects of Ultimate, particularly its HUD. Joker getting in was essentially the reverse of Snake's situation, where it was Sakurai who really wanted the character in Smash instead of the other party involved.

Sephiroth is a case where we don't know the entire story, but it's easy to infer that he was more or less part of whatever deal Square wanted in order for Ultimate to get more FFVII content in. If the music and Spirits that came with his Challenger Pack were in the base game with Cloud, I'd imagine Sephiroth wouldn't have been seriously considered by the devs, at least not for Ultimate.

Kazuya is also a character where we don't know the exact nitty-gritty of why he's in, but as with Sephiroth, it's easy to infer that his inclusion was likely a mix of Sora ltd. and Bandai-Namco being closely-involved, and Sakurai and Harada being rather acquainted with each other on a personal level like with the situation revolving Snake and Kojima. Like with Sephiroth, had the circumstances been different (say, if development of Smash was still with HAL Labs instead of Bamco), Kazuya would likely have remained a pipe-dream pick IMO.

While Kiryu's first two games did see a re-release on the Wii U, the collection was a financial failure, and to this day, no other Like a Dragon game has seen a release or even a promise for Nintendo systems, even after Nagoshi stepped down and left SEGA. Combine that with a statement by the team that Nagoshi didn't want to see Kiryu in a fighting game because he can't imagine him fighting female characters, and I feel that Kiryu is in a much tougher spot compared to the likes of Snake and Kazuya. Sakurai's devteam doesn't have the closeness with Sega's non-Atlus alumni like they did with Bandai-Namco, and even if Nagoshi hadn't left the company, it didn't seem like he was in a rush to want Sakurai or any of the other Smash devs to add Kiryu or any of the other characters to Ultimate. The main reason why I don't say Kiryu's chances are zero, however, is because we obviously don't know Sakurai's personal thoughts on the Like a Dragon franchise. We don't know if he's passionate enough about the series to want to include a character from it when the opportunity arises, or if he doesn't have any real strong feelings about it.
In a nutshell, I can't imagine Kiryu or any of the other characters being the #1 priority for the next Sega character in Smash unless Sakurai is incredibly passionate about the series like he was with Persona 5.

 

[CannonStreak]

Here are some rumors about the next Nintendo Direct being next week.

Ignore the Zippo parts as usual.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

As noted before Arle probably would get more speculation if people could more naturally think of a moveset for her. Puzzle characters are a bit of a curveball for brainstorming characters and I suspect it plays a factor in why she's (possibly unfairly) downplayed.

In hindsight I'm surprised more puzzle game elements haven't popped up as assist trophies. Panel de Pon, Tetris, Dr Mario viruses, and even Puyo Puyo; its not that hard to imagine how each could be utilized as AT's.

 

[Speed Weed]

As noted before Arle probably would get more speculation if people could more naturally think of a moveset for her. Puzzle characters are a bit of a curveball for brainstorming characters and I suspect it plays a factor in why she's (possibly unfairly) downplayed.

In hindsight I'm surprised more puzzle game elements haven't popped up as assist trophies. Panel de Pon, Tetris, Dr Mario viruses, and even Puyo Puyo; its not that hard to imagine how each could be utilized as AT's.

Except Arle actually does have plenty of fighting potential since she's a mage in-universe. Puyo spun off from a series of dungeon crawlers and Arle still uses a lot of these spells, it's not like her moveset would just be summoning Puyos

 

[TheQuester]

At the end of the day the roster is decided based on either how popular a game is or simply because the smash team though "This is cool"

The latter is how someone like Terry got in.

Axel seems like the type of character that Sakurai would add for that reason too, he just seems like a Sakurai pic to me like Terry, and i'm not biased bc i've never played either of the games.

I mean, Halo, Gears, and DOOM are a lot more generally popular than Banjo-Kazooie but they made it in as playable characters before any of those. The same can be said for Mega Man when you compare his series to Monster Hunter, Resident Evil or Devil May Cry. I know both of those characters largely made it in due to fan support but it shows that general popularity isn’t the only factor.

Beat ‘em Up characters are also just naturally suited for Smash where they can retain a large part of their existing movesets. I’m not saying that puzzle games can’t or shouldn’t get a playable character, just that they’d have to take more creative liberties to flesh out a moveset, which can either be good or bad depending on your preference. I just feel like some genres like fighting games, platformers, RPG’s, and Beat ‘em Ups work a bit better as a rule and are easier to implement so that’s another possible factor.

The thing is that Arle doesn't have the massive popularity as Mega Man or Banjo did, so it's not really comparable, also Banjo and Mega Man have deeper history with Nintendo while RE and DMC have not much history with Nintendo, MH you could agree is bc it's more suited for a boss than a playable character.
Halo and Gears have no games in Nintendo consoles and Gears is probably not popular in Japan, which lowers their chances significally.
DOOM wasn't even a Microsoft rep when they picked Banjo i'm sure.

And like i said adove, Axel just seems like the type of "overlooked" character that Sakurai would pick, similar to Terry, while Arle just doesn't seem the type of character Sakurai goes for, i think she's more likely to be an AT than playable.

I think the idea of a Like a Dragon character getting in next is something people might be overselling at this point in time. Every time we've gotten a character by and large associated with rival platforms, there's always been some sort of special circumstance that got them in.

Snake was a direct request from Hideo Kojima himself, and probably wouldn't have been in Brawl if Kojima wasn't insistent with wanting him in.

Cloud wasn't the immediate decision for a Final Fantasy character, and Nomura had suggested the protagonists from V and VI, which were more closely Nintendo-associated, but Cloud was ultimately chosen because Sakurai felt that since they were going to add a Final Fantasy character either way, it might as well be the franchise's most popular character, even if his game was nonexistent on Nintendo platforms at the time.

Richter more or less got in because of being able to be turned into an Echo for Simon, which also let the devteam merge the two Belmonts' techniques into one moveset as a result.

Joker's home game is explicitly a game that Sakurai really liked and had influenced certain aspects of Ultimate, particularly its HUD. Joker getting in was essentially the reverse of Snake's situation, where it was Sakurai who really wanted the character in Smash instead of the other party involved.

Sephiroth is a case where we don't know the entire story, but it's easy to infer that he was more or less part of whatever deal Square wanted in order for Ultimate to get more FFVII content in. If the music and Spirits that came with his Challenger Pack were in the base game with Cloud, I'd imagine Sephiroth wouldn't have been seriously considered by the devs, at least not for Ultimate.

Kazuya is also a character where we don't know the exact nitty-gritty of why he's in, but as with Sephiroth, it's easy to infer that his inclusion was likely a mix of Sora ltd. and Bandai-Namco being closely-involved, and Sakurai and Harada being rather acquainted with each other on a personal level like with the situation revolving Snake and Kojima. Like with Sephiroth, had the circumstances been different (say, if development of Smash was still with HAL Labs instead of Bamco), Kazuya would likely have remained a pipe-dream pick IMO.

While Kiryu's first two games did see a re-release on the Wii U, the collection was a financial failure, and to this day, no other Like a Dragon game has seen a release or even a promise for Nintendo systems, even after Nagoshi stepped down and left SEGA. Combine that with a statement by the team that Nagoshi didn't want to see Kiryu in a fighting game because he can't imagine him fighting female characters, and I feel that Kiryu is in a much tougher spot compared to the likes of Snake and Kazuya. Sakurai's devteam doesn't have the closeness with Sega's non-Atlus alumni like they did with Bandai-Namco, and even if Nagoshi hadn't left the company, it didn't seem like he was in a rush to want Sakurai or any of the other Smash devs to add Kiryu or any of the other characters to Ultimate. The main reason why I don't say Kiryu's chances are zero, however, is because we obviously don't know Sakurai's personal thoughts on the Like a Dragon franchise. We don't know if he's passionate enough about the series to want to include a character from it when the opportunity arises, or if he doesn't have any real strong feelings about it.
In a nutshell, I can't imagine Kiryu or any of the other characters being the #1 priority for the next Sega character in Smash unless Sakurai is incredibly passionate about the series like he was with Persona 5.

He still makes more sense than a Puyo Puyo rep to me, Yakuza is both popular in the east and in the west, which is an important factor.
Also, he's definitely not the first SEGA rep in line, that's probably Nahobino or Tails/Knuckles/Shadow/Eggman.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Except Arle actually does have plenty of fighting potential since she's a mage in-universe. Puyo spun off from a series of dungeon crawlers and Arle still uses a lot of these spells, it's not like her moveset would just be summoning Puyos

True, but given the occasional blind spots about Puyo Puyo and certain Sega IP's in general, Arle's origins in non puzzle games I are another element either forgotten about or aren't even known by various people within speculation.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Keep in mind it's not simply "had history with Nintendo" in B&K's case. It's that said history is what made them a highly popular pick in the ballot. The game itself would be popular regardless on its own merits, but it had all the right things going for it. Another notable thing is that the product was overall used in some way by Microsoft(via Rare Replay), meaning it's basically free advertisement as well. It had a ton going for it well beyond the Nintendo connection. Everything lined up. And that's not even all the factors that helped(Microsoft becoming friendly with Nintendo through Minecraft stuff also helped quite a bit in making them very easy companies to work with each other). If you remove the ballot factors, a lot of characters aren't in the same easy position as before. The ballot did influence some choices. 3rd parties or otherwise, some may have still made it in due to known fan demand, but that may also be not the first choice to get in(for instance, Minecraft may have been gotten first, as it's a bigger franchise overall).

Circumstances matter in many of these. Likewise, as Joker shows, the Nintendo connection isn't always as important. Persona barely had much of a foot in its door, with stuff in development while Joker was being chosen. Meanwhile Shin Megami Tensei was the one with an actual Nintendo history. But it's nowhere in Smash in any way. These are helpful circumstances, but not a key factor. B&K's Nintendo connection specifically isn't what got them in so much as it helped get them votes on the ballot. So it did help, just not the way people would expect. There's other things to consider on why some Rareware stuff may not have appeared at all. Some aren't worldwide(like Killer Instinct is pretty much US/EU only. Though also is an Arcade product, but still. Tons are and are in Smash, so). And of course anyone can tell you B&K is their most popular product specific to Rareware only(Donkey Kong itself is a Nintendo IP, though DKC was specific to Rareware, but isn't anymore).

Also, to point out, Richter, if he wasn't an Echo, would've been just an alt instead. He'd have been there no matter what, as both were chosen in tandem with each other because they were the most popular in each region. Simon being the non-Echo is likely due to being the first Belmont than anything else, as they were pretty much treated equally and even a joke was made of who the real Echo is. As it's not really that important what the label is with the duo.

 

[Stratos]

From the Silent Hill franchise it makes sense to have Harry Mason and his adopted daughter Heather Mason as newcomers in a future Super Smash Bros. game and IF that ever happens, but one would say that from this franchise most peoples want Pyramid Head.

 

[Gengar84]

Axel seems like the type of character that Sakurai would add for that reason too, he just seems like a Sakurai pic to me like Terry, and i'm not biased bc i've never played either of the games.



The thing is that Arle doesn't have the massive popularity as Mega Man or Banjo did, so it's not really comparable, also Banjo and Mega Man have deeper history with Nintendo while RE and DMC have not much history with Nintendo, MH you could agree is bc it's more suited for a boss than a playable character.
Halo and Gears have no games in Nintendo consoles and Gears is probably not popular in Japan, which lowers their chances significally.
DOOM wasn't even a Microsoft rep when they picked Banjo i'm sure.

And like i said adove, Axel just seems like the type of "overlooked" character that Sakurai would pick, similar to Terry, while Arle just doesn't seem the type of character Sakurai goes for, i think she's more likely to be an AT than playable.




He still makes more sense than a Puyo Puyo rep to me, Yakuza is both popular in the east and in the west, which is an important factor.
Also, he's definitely not the first SEGA rep in line, that's probably Nahobino or Tails/Knuckles/Shadow/Eggman.

Oh, I was arguing for a Streets of Rage character if that wasn’t clear. I was responding to Speed Weed who said he didn’t see any universe that Streets of Rage got a character and Puyo Puyo didn’t. I was just listing other scenarios where we got a character from a company before other franchises that had better sales. Basically my point was that sales aren’t and shouldn’t be the only factor that determines whether we get a character and that some genres just naturally translate to a playable fighter than others.

 

[Garteam]

Does anyone have a source (or multiple) backing up that Arle is a particularly popular request in Japan? I know that's sometimes a reason that is thrown around for her inclusion, but I've never seen direct evidence confirming that claim.