Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Speed Weed]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

Takamaru and Ayumi are the top ones for me

 

[osby]

Do you think Takamaru (or other retro first party character) would get a big redesign like they did with Pit or do you think they’d try to stick as close as possible to their original design? Which would you prefer?

I feel like Pit's redesign was kind of a special case but I'm pretty sure Takamaru would get at least more details in his design if he were to be made into a fighter in Smash, probably similar to his Samurai Warriors 3 appearance without being as realistic.

 

[Opossum]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

For me, it would be Takamaru, then Mach Rider, and then Muddy Mole rounding out a top three.

Shout out to Hakkun though. Due to the nature of their game it's hard to make a moveset for them, but they're getting the shout because I like them.

 

[smashkirby]

I wonder if Sakurai will ever go back on that rule of 'No Japan-only characters'...

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ayumi Tachibana does have the FDC Switch remakes which got a worldwide release now in her favor too

been meaning to play those...

 

[osby]

I wonder if Sakurai will ever go back on that rule of 'No Japan-only characters'...

I can see that happening in some cases where a character is well-known internationally but their origin game isn't available internationally (say, Saber from Fate/stay night) but overall, I don't think so.

It's not like that's an arbitrary rule, it's simply Sakurai trying to make sure people outside of Japan has an idea about the characters he adds to the game. While I think it's funny how popular Roy and Lucas are in Western Smash fandom despite not fitting this criterion, I think it makes sense as something to keep in mind.

 

[FazDude]

I wonder if Sakurai will ever go back on that rule of 'No Japan-only characters'...

Hope I'm understanding this correctly, but... that's a rule? I feel like Banjo, Steve, and (to a lesser extent) Diddy/K. Rool/Dark Samus killed that.

 

[Opossum]

Hope I'm understanding this correctly, but... that's a rule? I feel like Banjo, Steve, and (to a lesser extent) Diddy/K. Rool/Dark Samus killed that.

I think you misread the post. It's talking about characters like Lucas who never had their game release outside of Japan.

 

[osby]

Hope I'm understanding this correctly, but... that's a rule? I feel like Banjo, Steve, and (to a lesser extent) Diddy/K. Rool/Dark Samus killed that.

None of those characters are Japan-only, though.

 

[FazDude]

I think you misread the post. It's talking about characters like Lucas who never had their game release outside of Japan.

Oh, my mistake. Thanks for the correction.

 

[Oracle Link]

SO Demitiri Welp i included Dimitri on this Zelda Roster (Is That good enough of a segway?)

Presenting a unfinished version Of A Zelda Racing game with living Vehicles:

The Top 3 rows are racers the bottom 3 are vehicles I think some of these Choices are hillarious!
AND YES Everything is mixable! Link Riding on wolflink an octorok riding on Ganon a fairy riding on malladus!
And The only actual vehicle is the mastercycle cause it got its start in a racing game!
Impas Vehicle is her horse from oot i just didnt find a picture!
And Yeah the intended vehicle driver combo is in the same spots!

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Ayumi Tachibana does have the FDC Switch remakes which got a worldwide release now in her favor too

been meaning to play those...

As a fan of those games i can safetly say i have no idea how you could make a moveset for Ayumi. Back in Melee i get it because back then they just kinda made **** up for movesets but nowadays smash newcomers are designed to be accurate to the source material.

She's not even the character you play as in these games lol

I think you misread the post. It's talking about characters like Lucas who never had their game release outside of Japan.

I wonder if that rule would apply to a series that was released in English but not given a worldwide release.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

As a fan of those games i can safetly say i have no idea how you could make a moveset for Ayumi. Back in Melee i get it because back then they just kinda made **** up for movesets but nowadays smash newcomers are designed to be accurate to the source material.

She's not even the character you play as in these games lol



I wonder if that rule would apply to a series that was released in English but not given a worldwide release.

maybe inspire her off Phoenix Wright's set in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3? with a few twists relevant to her

if nothing else tho, i'd be content with her as an Assist Trophy shrug

 

[Sucumbio]

I wonder if that rule would apply to a series that was released in English but not given a worldwide release.

Like StarTropics? I'd be down with Mike Jones. Plus I'd love the music... One my my favorite nes tracks:

 

[Will]

I wonder if Sakurai will ever go back on that rule of 'No Japan-only characters'...

Who’s even left that’s Japan only and could be put in Smash? I was gonna say Reimu, but TIL there is Touhou on Switch. In English.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Who’s even left that’s Japan only and could be put in Smash? I was gonna say Reimu, but TIL there is Touhou on Switch.

tbf it IS mostly "doujin" games, but there is one official game that's one of the fighter spinoffs that ZUN himself produced. forgot the name of it tho

 

[fogbadge]

Who’s even left that’s Japan only and could be put in Smash? I was gonna say Reimu, but TIL there is Touhou on Switch. In English.

the rest of the mother 3 cast

 

[Hadokeyblade]

When i wrote that i was thinking about the Super robot wars games but i must have had a brain fart because the most recent game in that series WAS released worldwide.

 

[Perkilator]

As a fan of those games i can safetly say i have no idea how you could make a moveset for Ayumi. Back in Melee i get it because back then they just kinda made **** up for movesets but nowadays smash newcomers are designed to be accurate to the source material.

She's not even the character you play as in these games lol

If this was Melee, I could see her having a moveset that uses variations of Peach and Zelda’s moves, not unlike an existing mod.

 

[Laniv]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

Assuming NES/FDS only? Takamaru or Ayumi Tachibana.

If we expand the definition to include SNES/SFC and Game Boy? Lip or the Sable Prince.

By the way, could the GameCube be considered retro at this point?

 

[ARandomFruit]

tbf it IS mostly "doujin" games, but there is one official game that's one of the fighter spinoffs that ZUN himself produced. forgot the name of it tho

Actually there are two touhou spinoff games on switch. The one you mentioned is touhou 15.5 antinomy of common flowers which is a fighting game, and there is touhou 17.5 sunken fossil world which is more of a 2d boss rush game.

 

[Dan Quixote]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

Hayabusa is probably too normal to be considered just a retro character, so I'd say Excitebiker or Mach Rider. The motorcycles just have so much cool moveset and movement potential. I imagine they'd be instant top tiers with that speed ngl.

 

[fogbadge]

By the way, could the GameCube be considered retro at this point?

i hope not

 

[jamesster445]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

Wrecking Crew's Foreman Spike. Make a moveset based off the idea that hes this one man demolition crew. And because of the Mario movie he exists in the public consciousness.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

What do you guys think of those recent Nintendo console rumours of a new console supposedly releasing late 2024?

 

[CommanderZaktan]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

Ayumi Tachibana since the remakes are out in the west and having a normal school girl fighting is a funny idea. Plus she learns aikido

 

[Sucumbio]

Assuming NES/FDS only? Takamaru or Ayumi Tachibana.

If we expand the definition to include SNES/SFC and Game Boy? Lip or the Sable Prince.

By the way, could the GameCube be considered retro at this point?

Yeah... Just looking at the Melee clip above it's like wow haha what a difference, it's as stark audibly and visually as other leaps from new to retro like nes to playstation, atari to nes... 64 to ps2, playstation to GameCube.. Um.. but yeah retro is anything that stands out to you as being starkly different, though broadly speaking.

Specifically, my favorite example is RE for playstation vs RE4 for GameCube. Side by side in every way it's definitely two different generations (not just gaming but also in creative identity, etc.) So RE looks retro by comparison. It is Retro. Words.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What do you guys think of those recent Nintendo console rumours of a new console supposedly releasing late 2024?

Yes?

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Progress/leaps in gaming just don't seem as dramatic anymore and thus a lot of stuff that is old, doesn't quite feel as old. Games from 2023 look more impressive than ones in 2013 sure, but the shift is like the difference in video quality at best.

By contrast, gaming in the 90s began with Mega Man 3 & ended with Shenmue. As noted Resident Evil in 1996 screams 5th generation polygonal 3D, while even something like the Resident Evil remake a mere six years after that has barely aged even now. Debuting 20 years before Melee meant Donkey Kong and Mario. Debuting 20 years before Ultimate's second Fighter's Pass means Tidus, Master Chief, and Dante.

 

[Wonder Smash]

What do you guys think of those recent Nintendo console rumours of a new console supposedly releasing late 2024?

Are those rumors credible?

 

[jamesster445]

What do you guys think of those recent Nintendo console rumours of a new console supposedly releasing late 2024?

I think it's interesting that they're not releasing it early in the year like the Switch did. We'll see it when we see it.

 

[Stratos]

Like everyone else, I can't wait to see what more Nintendo's new console will have than the Switch.

 

[ShotoStar]

So, if Smash were to include another retro style character like Ice Climbers or Pit, who would you choose?

If we're talking just NES/FDS I'd probably say Takamaru is the most likely. However, I'd like Muddy Mole because he's just a fun little guy and expanding outside of the NES/FDS would be good for retro inclusions. Lip from Panel de Pon could work but I would prefer a Panel de Pon stage as the Mii Costume/Item does her enough justice I think

 

[dream1ng]

Who’s even left that’s Japan only and could be put in Smash? I was gonna say Reimu, but TIL there is Touhou on Switch. In English.

He's not Japan-only but I think Takamaru is still going to be treated as if he were, considering his western appearances are pretty minor or low-profile. I don't think the VC has ever really counted for much, Smash-wise.

I think characters like Sukapon, Lip and Saki are in a pretty similar boat. I guess Sukapon is the only actual Japan-only one, Smash aside. Though Takamaru seems like the one Sakurai has most wanted to add of these.

Third-party wise... there's basically no one that actually has any kind of chance. Probably just Hero from DQ10.

By the way, could the GameCube be considered retro at this point?

Sure. Not by Smash standards, but by actual standards, yeah.

By Smash standards the line doesn't even seem to move... which isn't how it works.

What do you guys think of those recent Nintendo console rumours of a new console supposedly releasing late 2024?

Even without the rumors that's a very likely outcome. I would be shocked in the next thing didn't come out next year.

 

[osby]

I think with Smash's retro picks, people miss that almost none of them are real, established characters in the traditional sense and that seems one of the main characteristics that inform their depiction in Smash games.

That's why I don't consider Mega Man or Simon retro picks in the same sense that Duck Hunt or Ice Climbers and that's why it's meaningless to act like any character can get into that category by just being "old enough". Bowser Jr. and Dark Samus originated in GameCube but it's obvious that their inclusion had more to do with their individual traits than which gaming era they represented.

 

[dream1ng]

I mean the retro slot doesn't exist anymore anyway. The only character we know for certain got in to fill a spot allocated for a retro character were Ice Climbers. It's possible Pit did too, but I don't think that's ever been confirmed.

Every other "retro" character got in for reasons apart from being "retro". G&W/ROB/DHD were the surprise picks. Mega Man and Simon were based on popularity. Pac-Man was due to Namco's involvement plus being Pac-Man. Little Mac wasn't "retro" anymore when he was included. Also none of these third-parties would've been retro by Smash's standards anyway, they all continued well past the NES era. Mega Man wasn't even considered retro when he was being requested; he got games annually, often multiple games, until basically the 3DS.

Plus the retro spot went away before third-parties even became particularly common in Smash, possibly before they were even involved.

So at this point if there are "retro characters" that get in... it's not going to be because of some retro spot, and it's not going to be because they're retro. Which is just as well considering Smash's criteria for retro didn't seem to update over time, which isn't how it works.

 

[Perkilator]

Y’all remember when people legitimately had no idea if Yoshi was gonna be in Smash 4 and were worried pic.twitter.com/fwZwHecSht

— No Context Super Mario (@SuperMarioOOC85) August 2, 2023

Man, this was such a weird time.

 

[smashkirby]

Y’all remember when people legitimately had no idea if Yoshi was gonna be in Smash 4 and were worried pic.twitter.com/fwZwHecSht

— No Context Super Mario (@SuperMarioOOC85) August 2, 2023

Man, this was such a weird time.

I actually spoke about this in response to a tweet below regarding the ESRB leak, but speaking of Smash 4? I absolutely HATED (and will NEVER forgive) how that leak pretty much revealed nearly EVERYTHING that Smash 4 had to offer us.

Heck, I think the ONLY (playable) character who WASN'T leaked by the end of all of this was Alph, of all people. Like, even the Koopalings were implied to have some sort of major role, with the leaking of Larry Koopa's trophy.

 

[Gengar84]

I was just curious if we could get some kind of consensus on how important it is for everyone for Smash character’s moveset to be faithful to their source material. I think there is merit to both sides. My personal view is that I’d prefer them to try to remain as faithful as possible to a character’s source game in moves and mechanics as long as it still results in a moveset that’s fun to play and at least somewhat balanced. It’s totally fine to me if some mechanics have to be simplified to work in Smash but I’d always like to see at least some reference to them. Others might not care so much as long as the moveset is fun and at least captures the general feel of the character without worrying about pulling specific moves from their games. There’s no right or wrong answer here since it all comes down to your personal preference but I’m curious where everyone stands on this.

 

[osby]

I was just curious if we could get some kind of consensus on how important it is for everyone for Smash character’s moveset to be faithful to their source material. I think there is merit to both sides. My personal view is that I’d prefer them to try to remain as faithful as possible to a character’s source game in moves and mechanics as long as it still results in a moveset that’s fun to play and at least somewhat balanced. It’s totally fine to me if some mechanics have to be simplified to work in Smash but I’d always like to see at least some reference to them. Others might not care so much as long as the moveset is fun and at least captures the general feel of the character without worrying about pulling specific moves from their games. There’s no right or wrong answer here since it all comes down to your personal preference but I’m curious where everyone stands on this.

Honestly, it depends on the character and there are good arguments for both sides.

Zero Suit Samus has a completely made-up moveset for Smash but she's pretty fun to play so I don't mind it - it helps that there's not much to draw from her appearances when she was added. However, I also enjoy more direct adaptations like Bayonetta, though they can be harder to get used to.

Overall, I think gameplay should come first because there's no point in playing as an assorted set of references if the end result is not fun. Usually, this works better when a moveset focuses on what a character can do rather than the specific mechanics. Joker is a good example, imo: The way Arsene is summoned does not have much to do with Persona 5 but it's still stylish, reflects the power boost Personas give you, and is reminiscent of Awakening status in Persona 4 Arena games, keeping a connection to the origin franchise.

Meanwhile, with characters like Mario or Link, who keep getting new mechanics with each new release, I think the question of which game they should pull from is a bit trickier and I find the idea of revamping them with each Smash game is a bit futile.