Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[NonSpecificGuy]

I’m just sensing that this is bias vs. bias a little bit. I don’t really think Rayman and Crash are necessarily in competition with each other they are both the next no brainers in line. There’s really no reason to bring one down for the sake of making the other seem more likely.

I want them both and both can make it. Mega Man and Pac-Man made it into the same game there’s really no reason Crash and Rayman can’t do the same.

 

[MrMcNuts]

It's more DK's franchise didn't get anything to begin with(did it even get ports since then? I might be off on that). That's a big reason why it is hard for people to be optimistic since the evidence shows another side of the story. DKC at most could've gotten some DLC spirits or a character when it comes to Smash. Rayman is in Smash, just not playable, so overall speaking, while the situation isn't the same, they aren't that off in the long run. The original Mario + Rabbids did get content in Smash, though, so I can also see that suggesting that Rayman has a fair reason to get something in the next Smash. I don't think it inherently puts him higher on the plausibility of playable, but I do think the relevance, as you said, helps to some degree.

But yeah, true, Nintendo has had some interest. Sadly Ubisoft barely has in comparison. We'll have to see what happens.

Also, to be fair, I don't think the user was directly comparing DK DLC and Rayman DLC specifically to Smash itself. But moreso to how it helps the franchise. I could've misread it too, but eh. Either way, good luck.

...DKC literally got King K Rool last game

And we're talking a franchise with one spirit vs a franchise with 3 playable characters, stages and more, it is very far off.

People can be bias all they want, and accuse me of the same, but Nintendo interest, demand going up, and more relevancy always helps, it's some of the main things people bring up when deeming a characters likeliness.

And to say Ubisoft has no interest when they're literally the ones developing this Rayman content doesn't make sense.

I’m just sensing that this is bias vs. bias a little bit. I don’t really think Rayman and Crash are necessarily in competition with each other they are both the next no brained in line. There’s really no reason to bring one down for the sake of making the other seem more likely.

I want them both and both can make it. Mega Man and Pac-Man made it into the same game there’s really no reason Crash and Rayman can’t do the same.

Oh I'm 100% fine with both and not trying to say ray is more likely.

Just don't like people pushing their opinions as factual when evidence says otherwise.

Both Rayman and crash would be great

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

...DKC literally got King K Rool last game

And we're talking a franchise with one spirit vs a franchise with 3 playable characters, stages and more, it is very far off.

People can be bias all they want, and accuse me of the same, but Nintendo interest, demand going up, and more relevancy always helps, it's some of the main things people bring up when deeming a characters likeliness.

And to say Ubisoft has no interest when they're literally the ones developing this Rayman content doesn't make sense.

Oh I'm 100% fine with both and not trying to say ray is more likely.

Just don't like people pushing their opinions as factual when evidence says otherwise.

Both Rayman and crash would be great

I gotcha. It’s also the fact that CapitaineCrash is making a point that Activision is showing a lot of love to Crash pushing him into the minds eye of the industry and into the limelight in terms of Smash’s choice of relevancy. And that’s a very good point and very true. But the point still stands as well that Nintendo has essentially taken Rayman and Rabbids under their wings as a sort of Bayonetta/Sonic like honorary Nintendo character.

They’re both equally likely imo. Just for completely different reasons.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I gotcha. It’s also the fact that CapitaineCrash is making a point that Activision is showing a lot of love to Crash pushing him into the minds eye of the industry and into the limelight in terms of Smash’s choice of relevancy. And that’s a very good point and very true. But the point still stands as well that Nintendo has essentially taken Rayman and Rabbids under their wings as a sort of Bayonetta/Sonic like honorary Nintendo character.

They’re both equally likely imo. Just for completely different reasons.

Absolute facts

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

...DKC literally got King K Rool last game

And we're talking a franchise with one spirit vs a franchise with 3 playable characters, stages and more, it is very far off.

People can be bias all they want, and accuse me of the same, but Nintendo interest, demand going up, and more relevancy always helps, it's some of the main things people bring up when deeming a characters likeliness.

DKC got a base game character because of the ballot, which was in 2015, of which the character was decided on. Mario + Rabbids didn't have the DK expansion pack till 2018, 3 yearsish later. ...It's pretty hard to see how that couldn't affect King K. Rool's chances when they don't match up at all.

That said, yes, they're in entirely different situations. Rayman is both the main character of his own franchise, but only loosely there in Smash. DKC is there, but took a while to get anything for various reasons(Diddy had to deal with the Rareware buyout, so didn't arrive till Brawl).

And to say Ubisoft has no interest when they're literally the ones developing this Rayman content doesn't make sense.

Nobody said this, though. So I really don't get what you're talking about. I read a completely different meaning... and pointed it out. So, uh, what are you talking about again? Please at least reply to what we actually say. Bolstering your argument by using words nobody said doesn't actually work out. It makes it look weaker because you have to make up stuff to put your character in a higher stance. That doesn't mean he's in bad shape at all. But you should use actual information or arguments given first. Be honest about how you do it.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Nobody said this, though. So I really don't get what you're talking about. I read a completely different meaning... and pointed it out. So, uh, what are you talking about again? Please at least reply to what we actually say. Bolstering your argument by using words nobody said doesn't actually work out. It makes it look weaker because you have to make up stuff to put your character in a higher stance. That doesn't mean he's in bad shape at all. But you should use actual information or arguments given first. Be honest about how you do it.

But yeah, true, Nintendo has had some interest. Sadly Ubisoft barely has in comparison. We'll have to see what happens.

Ok not no interest but barely any interest is close. Didn't make anything up.

 

[dream1ng]

I gotcha. It’s also the fact that CapitaineCrash is making a point that Activision is showing a lot of love to Crash pushing him into the minds eye of the industry and into the limelight in terms of Smash’s choice of relevancy. And that’s a very good point and very true. But the point still stands as well that Nintendo has essentially taken Rayman and Rabbids under their wings as a sort of Bayonetta/Sonic like honorary Nintendo character.

They’re both equally likely imo. Just for completely different reasons.

But all the Rabbids crossover stuff came from Ubisoft, who pitched it to Nintendo, who accepted. I'm not sure about Ultimate, but for Smash 4, it was also Ubisoft reaching out to Nintendo, not vice-versa. Nintendo publishes the M+R stuff in Japan because they have a better position to do so than Ubisoft in that country, but taking the property under their wing is a bit strong for greenlighting a collaboration, and covering publishing duty.

Have they brought the Rayman series back like they've kept Bayonetta alive? They haven't even given him or any Rabbid a playable position in Smash. They've done crossovers and covered publishing duty with Dragon Quest as well, I wouldn't consider them honorary Nintendo characters.

It's a close relationship, but not that close. Though I also don't think they've taken Sonic under their wing either. That's more what fans want.

 

[MrMcNuts]

On the topic of Rayman I gotta say if he gets in next game I definitely wanna see some Master Hand and Crazy Hand nod in his trailer

Or maybe how this video does it near the beginning:

Smash Bros Has DLC

youtu.be

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

But all the Rabbids crossover stuff came from Ubisoft, who pitched it to Nintendo, who accepted. I'm not sure about Ultimate, but for Smash 4, it was also Ubisoft reaching out to Nintendo, not vice-versa. Nintendo publishes the M+R stuff in Japan because they have a better position to do so than Ubisoft in that country, but taking the property under their wing is a bit strong for greenlighting a collaboration, and covering publishing duty.

Have they brought the Rayman series back like they've kept Bayonetta alive? They haven't even given him or any Rabbid a playable position in Smash. They've done crossovers and covered publishing duty with Dragon Quest as well, I wouldn't consider them honorary Nintendo characters.

It's a close relationship, but not that close. Though I also don't think they've taken Sonic under their wing either. That's more what fans want.

That’s a fair point about Ubisoft pitching everything but I’m pretty sure Sakurai reached out to Ubisoft for Rayman and not vice versa and he was pleasantly surprised they sent a 3D Model. I could be misremembering but either way that’s kinda semantics.

Though I don’t think being one of the 3 franchises that’s ever had a direct Mario Crossover is anything to sneeze at. Sure you’ve had the odd Pac-Man in Mario Kart, or Black Mage in uh… Sports Mix. But as far as I can remember the only direct crossovers Mario has ever had was Fortune Street, Mario & Sonic, and Mario + Rabbids, Rayman being the start of and in the latter’s series

I don’t necessarily think they’ve put in the same amount of work as they did with Bayonetta obviously but it does seem like they care for the little guy at the very least.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

That’s a fair point about Ubisoft pitching everything but I’m pretty sure Sakurai reached out to Ubisoft for Rayman and not vice versa and he was pleasantly surprised they sent a 3D Model. I could be misremembering but either way that’s kinda semantics.

Though I don’t think being one of the 3 franchises that’s ever had a direct Mario Crossover is anything to sneeze at. Sure you’ve had the odd Pac-Man in Mario Kart, or Black Mage in uh… Sports Mix. But as far as I can remember the only direct crossovers Mario has ever had was Fortune Street, Mario & Sonic, and Mario + Rabbids, Rayman being the start of and in the latter’s series

I don’t necessarily think they’ve put in the same amount of work as they did with Bayonetta obviously but it does seem like they care for the little guy at the very least.

It's easy to forget that Mario sports mix and Mario Hoops were essentially "Mario X Final fantasy" games.

They had the generic FF classes as playable characters. That was a weird period in Mario's history.

 

[MrMcNuts]

That’s a fair point about Ubisoft pitching everything but I’m pretty sure Sakurai reached out to Ubisoft for Rayman and not vice versa and he was pleasantly surprised they sent a 3D Model. I could be misremembering but either way that’s kinda semantics.

Yeah you're right looks like they did reach out for references and were gonna make their own until Ubisoft sent the trophies

 

[Perkilator]

Yeah you're right looks like they did reach out for references and were gonna make their own until Ubisoft sent the trophies
View attachment 366901

Okay, well aside from that...fixed-in-the-final-game-for-good-reason face, I always thought Rayman's model as a trophy could lend itself well to a playable in-game model.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I’m just sensing that this is bias vs. bias a little bit. I don’t really think Rayman and Crash are necessarily in competition with each other they are both the next no brainers in line. There’s really no reason to bring one down for the sake of making the other seem more likely.

Slaughter them both...clear the deck for Hayabusa.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Okay, well aside from that...fixed-in-the-final-game-for-good-reason face, I always thought Rayman's model as a trophy could lend itself well to a playable in-game model.
View attachment 366902

From the side it's great but once you see the front.....

Slaughter them both...clear the deck for Hayabusa.

Nah my mans had them limbless hitboxes on his side

 

[chocolatejr9]

It's easy to forget that Mario sports mix and Mario Hoops were essentially "Mario X Final fantasy" games.

They had the generic FF classes as playable characters. That was a weird period in Mario's history.

That version of White Mage deserves more respect, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

#SportsWhiteMageForSmash

 

[ceterisparibus]

I didn't expect "nintendo takes rabbids/rayman under their wings, they're essentially a bayonetta-lite honorary nintendo character now" on my list today, but here we are.

smashboards tend to encourage "chase your dreams and never say never" to all characters, but i do wonder if the facts that rayman being a dead franchise/non-existent to japanese audiences/even the most optimistic polls do not show him to be particularly wanted are completely ignored in these cases.

I think that if Ultimate had about double the number base newcomers, we might have gotten Rayman. He and Shantae were the only two third party series to receive only spirits in the base game, an it's weird that a big company like Ubisoft would agree to such a small presence in the game unless at least one of the parties involved really want him in the game. This is the second smash game in a row this has happened! Unfortunately for him, I feel like his obscurity in Japan is the reason he hasn't been DLC, it would be a tough sell. If the series is doing well by the time the next game comes around... I would say he's the second most likely third party behind a Deltarune character. An idea I've had is a Smash Direct revealing Rayman and a character with lopsided popularity the other way, so someone like Reimu. The reveals would swap order based on which region you're viewing the direct in, with the less popular character being revealed at the start of the direct and the more popular one being at the end. I don't know if it would work, but it would be a fun experiment if nothing else.

nintendo were already talking to mojang about minecraft way back in 2015. Very strongly doubt anyone else was on the table, especially with sora and the other ballot performers included in ultimate.

 

[Quillion]

That version of White Mage deserves more respect, and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

#SportsWhiteMageForSmash

She's a sports-friendly version of FF1 White Mage, but surely there has to be any of the other white mages with names before her.

On that note, I wish they could implement Ness's healing in a less limited, matchup-specific way.

 

[Diddy Kong]

In general I hope they make the original 12 Smash fighters, Melee fighters and Brawl fighters with the potential of having movesets that include their canon abilities to have them. And I think Link set a great example for this already.

Just mix the old with the new. Imagine Samus, DK, Diddy, Kirby, Pikachu, Mewtwo, Charizard, Ike, Zelda and Ganondorf in this light.

 

[fogbadge]

smashboards tend to encourage "chase your dreams and never say never" to all characters

no we don't. we crush each smash dreams all the time be it deliberately or not

we’re only human after all

 

[MrMcNuts]

I didn't expect "nintendo takes rabbids/rayman under their wings, they're essentially a bayonetta-lite honorary nintendo character now" on my list today, but here we are.

smashboards tend to encourage "chase your dreams and never say never" to all characters, but i do wonder if the facts that rayman being a dead franchise/non-existent to japanese audiences/even the most optimistic polls do not show him to be particularly wanted are completely ignored in these cases.

And I didn't expect the false "doesn't do well on polls" argument on my list when he's consistently been in the top 10 or 5 in them but here we are.

 

[Gengar84]

no we don't. we crush each smash dreams all the time be it deliberately or not

we’re only human after all

I think it’s best to be open minded but keep your expectations somewhat grounded. It doesn’t really help much to shoot down other people’s most wanted characters, no matter how unlikely you might think they are, but it also isn’t the best idea to assume that anyone is a sure thing.

Personally, I don’t really put much focus on a character’s likelihood, just how fun I think they could be and what could they offer the series to stand out.

 

[MrMcNuts]

I think it’s best to be open minded but keep your expectations somewhat grounded. It doesn’t really help much to shoot down other people’s most wanted characters, no matter how unlikely you might think they are, but it also isn’t the best idea to assume that anyone is a sure thing.

Personally, I don’t really put much focus on a character’s likelihood, just how fun I think they could be and what could they offer the series to stand out.

Spoken like a king

 

[fogbadge]

I think it’s best to be open minded but keep your expectations somewhat grounded. It doesn’t really help much to shoot down other people’s most wanted characters, no matter how unlikely you might think they are, but it also isn’t the best idea to assume that anyone is a sure thing.

Personally, I don’t really put much focus on a character’s likelihood, just how fun I think they could be and what could they offer the series to stand out.

see now that’s a much more reasonable thing to do

 

[PeridotGX]

talking to mojang about minecraft way back in 2015. Very strongly doubt anyone else was on the table, especially with sora and the other ballot performers included in ultimate.

I don't think Steve would be pushed forward in this hypothetical. It's not like he was a particularly early DLC character, he was in Pass 2. There's also the factor that Microsoft would want their chunk of change, they probably get more from being DLC than whatever sliver of the base game. The only DLC characters that I think could have been in the base game are Joker, Terry, and Kazuya, but even then they have obstacles (Joker and Kazuya are confirmed to have taken awhile to make a moveset for, and as previously mentioned SNK would want more money). I genuinely think Rayman would have gotten in with more time, and if not him it might have been Shovel Knight and not a future DLC character

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I think it’s best to be open minded but keep your expectations somewhat grounded. It doesn’t really help much to shoot down other people’s most wanted characters, no matter how unlikely you might think they are, but it also isn’t the best idea to assume that anyone is a sure thing.

Personally, I don’t really put much focus on a character’s likelihood, just how fun I think they could be and what could they offer the series to stand out.

Thank you for understanding that the series i want to see in smash has a lower chance than Rayman lol

 

[ceterisparibus]

And I didn't expect the false "doesn't do well on polls" argument on my list when he's consistently been in the top 10 or 5 in them but here we are.

Show me more than 1 poll over a consistent period of time across multiple polling groups. Or else this just falls in "hey a TF2 character topped a poll he must be heavily wanted" levels of confirmation bias.

Also pretty nice how you casually dodged the other 2 points (which are arguably bigger death knells).

I don't think Steve would be pushed forward in this hypothetical. It's not like he was a particularly early DLC character, he was in Pass 2. There's also the factor that Microsoft would want their chunk of change, they probably get more from being DLC than whatever sliver of the base game. The only DLC characters that I think could have been in the base game are Joker, Terry, and Kazuya, but even then they have obstacles (Joker and Kazuya are confirmed to have taken awhile to make a moveset for, and as previously mentioned SNK would want more money). I genuinely think Rayman would have gotten in with more time, and if not him it might have been Shovel Knight and not a future DLC character

One of mojang's founders already points out said character was approached way back in 2015.
So basically, if nintendo already had their eyes on minecraft in 2015, and yet by your argument rayman/shantae would be considered "with more time" even when there were multiple chances in smash 4 dlc/base roster/ultimate dlc? You said "there's no way a big company like ubisoft would be ok with spirits" and yet Bethesda casually honked up mii costumes without much fuss. Even capcom (no new unique characters) and ubisoft coughed out more costumes without new characters!
How does that even line up?

I think it’s best to be open minded but keep your expectations somewhat grounded. It doesn’t really help much to shoot down other people’s most wanted characters, no matter how unlikely you might think they are, but it also isn’t the best idea to assume that anyone is a sure thing.

Personally, I don’t really put much focus on a character’s likelihood, just how fun I think they could be and what could they offer the series to stand out.

I think its fair to point out what's likely based on what we've known with nintendo instead of just coming up of random scenarios. Do we really want an echo chamber where people just validate instead of discussing and running ideas against each other?

 

[Gengar84]

Show me more than 1 poll over a consistent period of time across multiple polling groups. Or else this just falls in "hey a TF2 character topped a poll he must be heavily wanted" levels of confirmation bias.

Also pretty nice how you casually dodged the other 2 points (which are arguably bigger death knells).


One of mojang's founders already points out said character was approached way back in 2015.
So basically, if nintendo already had their eyes on minecraft in 2015, and yet by your argument rayman/shantae would be considered "with more time" even when there were multiple chances in smash 4 dlc/base roster/ultimate dlc? You said "there's no way a big company like ubisoft would be ok with spirits" and yet Bethesda casually honked up mii costumes without much fuss. Even capcom (no new unique characters) and ubisoft coughed out more costumes without new characters!
How does that even line up?


I think its fair to point out what's likely based on what we've known with nintendo instead of just coming up of random scenarios. Do we really want an echo chamber where people just validate instead of discussing and running ideas against each other?

It’s fine to talk about why you feel a character is or isn’t likely, I’m just not too personally interested in that aspect. What I don’t care for is when people try to shut down discussion because they say a character has no chance. The same goes for people who get too overconfident that a certain character has to make it in.

I’ll admit that my own most wanted characters aren’t particularly likely. The Battletoads, Magus, Fulgore, Kerrigan, Shionne, Sub-Zero, etc… definitely have an uphill battle. I usually bring that up whenever I talk about them so it doesn’t really accomplish much of anything for someone to just say they’re not happening and shut down discussion. Not that I’m the only one this happens to, it’s just an example.

It’s funny that you consider an echo chamber to be encouraging discussion of various characters. If anything, I would think narrowing the discussion to just a few of the “most likely” characters and shutting down anything else is much more of an echo chamber, but that’s just me.

 

[ceterisparibus]

It’s fine to talk about why you feel a character is or isn’t likely, I’m just not too personally interested in that aspect. What I don’t care for is when people try to shut down discussion because they say a character has no chance. The same goes for people who get too overconfident that a certain character has to make it in.

I don't mind if people can provide arguments that's convincing and/or is based on solid facts. What i have an issue with is people taking flawed sources and choosing it as it fits their bias.
Doesn't strike me as bad?

 

[Gengar84]

I don't mind if people can provide arguments that's convincing and/or is based on solid facts. What i have an issue with is people taking flawed sources and choosing it as it fits their bias.
Doesn't strike me as bad?

As long as people are clear about what they’re talking about, I don’t see any issues. If you’re trying to make an argument for why a character should make it in and you feel there are legitimate reasons why they could be chosen, it helps to bring those up. At the same time, I don’t think you want to push that aspect too much or others might believe you are being overconfident in their chances. I learned that with the Battletoads. I think I probably went a bit too in depth with why I thought they had a chance and would be a great fit for Smash. That doesn’t mean I think they’re anywhere close to a sure thing. Far from it. Still, some people were getting sick of my explanations of why I thought they were at least possible and what they could offer, so I try to talk about my other favorites more often.

There’s also nothing wrong with talking about other characters that basically have no chance at all and you just think would be cool as long as you preface it with that. In these cases, it’s less an argument for why you think they could get in and more just sharing ideas for what they could offer just for fun. For example, I’d love to see Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy in Smash but seeing as he’s a secondary character in a PS2 Sony owned JRPG, I admit he basically has no chance at all. It’s still fun to talk about him and come up with movesets because I love the character. Most of my most wanted characters are relatively unlikely but I can at least come up with valid reasons why they might be chosen. For Zegram, I have nothing other than that I like him.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I don't really understand the idea that "If base game had more newcomers, Rayman would have been playable". I mean, if Nintendo really wanted him playable, even with the small amount of newcomer of base game... he would have just make it as dlc right? Besides, it's not like he was the only big character to have a small role. Shovel knight and Bomberman was an assist despite both being huge request (arguably bigger than Rayman, at least in Japan in the case of Bomberman). Monster hunter got only a boss, despite being also a huge request and one of Japan biggest video game ip with no characters at this point with Resident evil.

And with dlc even more big franchise got small representation. Dante got a mii, Resident evil got spirits, Doom and Fallout got mii, Assassin's creed too etc. Why is Rayman case different?

There’s also nothing wrong with talking about other characters that basically have no chance at all as long as you preface it with that. For example, I’d love to see Zegram Ghart from Rogue Galaxy in Smash but seeing as he’s a secondary character in a PS2 Sony owned JRPG, I admit he basically has no chance at all. It’s still fun to talk about him and come up with movesets because I love the character. Most of my most wanted characters are relatively unlikely but I can at least come up with valid reasons why they might be chosen. For Zegram, I have nothing other than that I like him.

I'm not against the idea of discussing Rayman. I love the character myself. I'm against the idea that he's one of the most likely character and he's this huge characters that got cut for lack of time. There's no evidence for that.

 

[Gengar84]

I don't really understand the idea that "If base game had more newcomers, Rayman would have been playable". I mean, if Nintendo really wanted him playable, even with the small amount of newcomer of base game... he would have just make it as dlc right? Besides, it's not like he was the only big character to have a small role. Shovel knight and Bomberman was an assist despite both being huge request (arguably bigger than Rayman, at least in Japan in the case of Bomberman). Monster hunter got only a boss, despite being also a huge request and one of Japan biggest video game ip with no characters at this point with Resident evil.

And with dlc even more big franchise got small representation. Dante got a mii, Resident evil got spirits, Doom and Fallout got mii, Assassin's creed too etc. Why is Rayman case different?



I'm not against the idea of discussing Rayman. I love the character myself. I'm against the idea that he's one of the most likely character and he's this huge characters that got cut for lack of time. There's no evidence for that.

Yeah, there’s a few characters like Rayman and Master Chief that I feel people are being a bit overconfident in but it doesn’t really bother me if people want to discuss why they feel they are likely. Really, I just don’t care a whole lot about the whole likeliness argument since Smash is so unpredictable and I personally find it more fun to talk about what characters could offer rather than get hung up on their chances. Still, if people would rather talk about likeliness, that’s fine too. No one is forcing anyone to talk about things they don’t want. I just usually take a break and pop back in when there’s a subject I’m more interested in.

 

[PeridotGX]

One of mojang's founders already points out said character was approached way back in 2015.
So basically, if nintendo already had their eyes on minecraft in 2015, and yet by your argument rayman/shantae would be considered "with more time" even when there were multiple chances in smash 4 dlc/base roster/ultimate dlc? You said "there's no way a big company like ubisoft would be ok with spirits" and yet Bethesda casually honked up mii costumes without much fuss. Even capcom (no new unique characters) and ubisoft coughed out more costumes without new characters!
How does that even line up?

The difference between Rayman and the Bethesda miis are that the latter was DLC. It might not be character DLC, but it was still a separate purchase that Bethesda probably received a good chunk of the profits. As for Rathalos, Capcom was already in the base game - it doesn't change anything if they throw in another boss (and it's the same situation as Bethesda for the miis). Aside from the spirits, Ubisoft has nothing in base Ult - which is what leaves me curious.

I don't think it's Nintendo that particularly wants Rayman in Smash, I think it's Ubisoft. They agreed to these spirits, and the trophies in 4, just because they wanted him in the game at all. If Sakurai had a bit more time, why not just go ahead and do it, making Ubisoft and his decently sized overseas fanbase happy. The reason he hasn't been DLC is because of his Japanese irrelevance, it would be a hard sell. He's really base game or nothing, one of the few third parties I think is in that situation.

(Also, for the record, I do not care about Rayman at all. I've never played one of his games.)

 

[MrMcNuts]

Show me more than 1 poll over a consistent period of time across multiple polling groups. Or else this just falls in "hey a TF2 character topped a poll he must be heavily wanted" levels of confirmation bias.

Also pretty nice how you casually dodged the other 2 points (which are arguably bigger death knells).

Source gaming poll in 2020:

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate: The characters YOU want for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Fighter Pass 2!

It’s time for the first results from our Mega Smash Poll Ultimate edition! We conducted this poll back in March 2020 and asked the community a number of questions about how they play Super Sm…

sourcegaming.info

Source gaming poll 2022

Mega Smash Poll Ultimate Results – The Most Wanted Fighters for a Future Game

It’s time for part 7 of the Mega Smash Poll Ultimate results. In this part, we will be looking beyond Super Smash Bros. Ultimate, and looking at the franchises future. What better way to start than…

sourcegaming.info

Global smash roster (even with TF2 at the top the rest still accurately represent popular requests)

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch

Learn more about Super Smash Bros. Ultimate for Nintendo Switch™ on the official site from Nintendo.

www.globalsmashroster.com

There's more but I ain't gonna list every single one

I ignored your two other points cause it's been explained the last few pages that the IP is being used right now for things so that doesn't make it dead.

Japan popularity is the only valid argument against him really I'll give ya that. But plenty of "rules" have been broken in smash so I'll never consided it a death sentence. He ticks every other box for character requirements other than that.

But that's getting off topic. My whole point is that the argument that he isn't a big request has been false for a looooong time now. People can hate him idc but when they start spouting false stuff then thats lame.

 

[Gengar84]

All these polls really show how far my personal tastes in characters are from the general Smash community. I wouldn’t really mind seeing any of these and they’re all deserving but none of them really hype me up personally.

 

[Oracle Link]

So...

They would use the Basic Pink Gum Katana and Gumninjutsu
I like their designs, Abilitys and personaliteies the only reason i dont play ninjala is cause of the Micro transactions and Rock paper scisors stuff!
Also has strong ties to nintendo!
Whos your favourite Ninjala Char mine is either Burton or Ron Depending on the Episode (Yes I watch the Anime its really good)

 

[Gengar84]

T

So...

They would use the Basic Pink Gum Katana and Gumninjutsu
I like their designs, Abilitys and personaliteies the only reason i dont play ninjala is cause of the Micro transactions and Rock paper scisors stuff!
Also has strong ties to nintendo!
Whos your favourite Ninjala Char mine is either Burton or Ron Depending on the Episode (Yes I watch the Anime its really good)

They really remind me of Inklings just going by their designs. I wonder if they have the same character designer.

 

[Oracle Link]

T

They really remind me of Inklings just going by their designs. I wonder if they have the same character designer.

Probably not but i guess both a influenced by japanese Youth Culture and well colored Hair they do look diffrent tho thanks to well being Humans But the game does play similary to Splatoon just with Rock Paper scisors and a regular Knock the Oppponent out Structure!
also heres Gumchi hes a alien:

he would probably appear during taunts story wise hes the PET? of (Kappei The Rightmost one)
Also fun fact 4 of the Main Characters are deaged adults guess who?

 

[MrMcNuts]

All these polls really show how far my personal tastes in characters are from the general Smash community. I wouldn’t really mind seeing any of these and they’re all deserving but none of them really hype me up personally.

Gotta say I personally love most of the choices though I feel the same way each time we get new gens of pokemon and fans pick their faves.

Can't understand how anyone likes Eiscue lol

 

[Opossum]

Gotta say I personally love most of the choices though I feel the same way each time we get new gens of pokemon and fans pick their faves.

Can't understand how anyone likes Eiscue lol

He's a cute little penguin who froze his head in a block of ice. And it's funny when you see them in the water on the overworld just casually floating along with their ice block head above water.

It's a silly little creature/10.

 

[Gengar84]

I thi

Gotta say I personally love most of the choices though I feel the same way each time we get new gens of pokemon and fans pick their faves.

Can't understand how anyone likes Eiscue lol

I think I just have weird tastes lol. As far as Pokémon, my favorites per Gen are:

Gengar/Electabuzz/Kabutops
Gligar/Houndoom/Sneasel
Zangoose/Seviper/Deoxys Attack
Lucario/Gliscor/Toxicroak
Cofagrigus/Kyurem/Zoroark
Clawitzer/Dragalge/Malamar
Golisopod/Lycanroc Midnight/Necrozma
Orbeetle/Corviknight/Toxtricity
H Zoroark/Sneasler
Lokix/Ceruledge/Great Tusk