Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

Come to think of it, those are the only Taito IPs Square acknowledges, aren't they?

I think Arkanoid got a couple mentions and games. And I don't know if Taito fully owns Pocky & Rocky, as they did make the original Arcade game, but Natsume made the notable console games afterwards. And Pocky & Rocky did get the Reshrined game not too long ago. I think Taito also owns Ninja Warriors and that got a game in 2019.

 

[Sucumbio]

Everyone seems to be going the live-service route. Makes me hope even harder for good offline content in the next smash.

I wish I'd not waited for so long but the Xbox series S has allowed me to play any game I wanted and there's so many to play it's going to be a lifetime worth lol.

It makes me hopeful for Microsoft to have another rep in the next Smash...

 

[silenthunder]

I wish I'd not waited for so long but the Xbox series S has allowed me to play any game I wanted and there's so many to play it's going to be a lifetime worth lol.

It makes me hopeful for Microsoft to have another rep in the next Smash...

It’s very likely. The demand for Doom Guy and Chief is high... oh and maybe Crash

 

[Wonder Smash]

The only ones I think Square Enix would probably allow are Bubble Bobble and Space Invaders, since both of those were a big deal back then. Otherwise, I can't see them wanting to promote stuff aside from their own games that they are experienced with.

Also, one of the first, not the first. Baraduke came out in May while Typhoon Gal came out in October. I'm not 100% certain if Baraduke was the first, but at the least, Baraduke came before Typhoon Gal.

They both came out the same year but I haven't found the month for when Typhoon Gal came out.

Also, I said if not the first, not the first.

 

[Ivander]

They both came out the same year but I haven't found the month for when Typhoon Gal came out.

The only release dates for Typhoon Gal I found were on iMDb and Gamefaqs, which state it was released in October.

 

[Wonder Smash]

The only release dates for Typhoon Gal I found were on iMDb and Gamefaqs, which state it was released in October.

Assuming that that's the truth, then yeah, she's one of the first, which is what I said.

However, she's definitely first female fighter in the beat'em up genre.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Not directly related to Smash, but I'd kill to see SE and Taito do the equivalent of the Atari 50, a game/interactive documentary about the history of the company and details about all the various releases. Just having all the various versions of Space Invaders that released would make it worth the price alone.

 

[silenthunder]

Not directly related to Smash, but I'd kill to see SE and Taito do the equivalent of the Atari 50, a game/interactive documentary about the history of the company and details about all the various releases. Just having all the various versions of Space Invaders that released would make it worth the price alone.

My dad really liked Jungle king (called Pirate Pete some regions)

 

[dream1ng]

I don't think that it's that Square won't let Taito out to play, I think it's that Taito's library makes it very unlikely we'd get anything from them above the level of supporting content. Space Invaders is obviously storied enough for a character, but by nature of the game and its characters within, that seems a pretty unlikely proposition. Bubble Bobble is (...was) noteworthy, but not really character-level. They'd make a great AT, but Square is indeed kinda restrictive about content, so that also seems a big big if.

But in theory, if Space Invaders was more conducive to playability, they'd have a real good shot. It's not like Square bought Taito to kill their franchises, they would benefit from the inclusion too.

As it is now though, I wouldn't consider anyone from Taito even in the like... top five most likely just from Square alone.

 

[Opossum]

If I had to pick a Taito character, Otto from Elevator Action would be neat.

 

[DarthEnderX]

What does Smash Bros mean to you? from gameplay, modes, speculation? What themes could you associate with the Smash Bros Franchise.

CHARACTERS!

CHECKLISTS!!

If I had to pick a Taito character

It's Bub & Bob. No contest.

 

[RodNutTakin]

Been a while. Again.
I must ask since it's been a bit, is here a good place to drop personal/dream Smash rosters? Not sure if there's a more suitable thread on the board for this or not, since I like sparking up debate and speculation in good faith.

 

[Perkilator]

Been a while. Again.
I must ask since it's been a bit, is here a good place to drop personal/dream Smash rosters? Not sure if there's a more suitable thread on the board for this or not, since I like sparking up debate and speculation in good faith.

…To be honest, I don’t know if I can properly answer this question. I’ve seen dream rosters posted in all sorts of Smash-related threads and status updates.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If I had to pick a Taito character, Otto from Elevator Action would be neat.

If you want a REAL deep cut, Mono from Magic Pengel: The Quest for Color. I played that game a bunch when I was REALLY young, and though I had no idea what I was doing, I was obsessed with it. Too bad the game's been forgotten...

 

[Ivander]

If you want a REAL deep cut, Mono from Magic Pengel: The Quest for Color. I played that game a bunch when I was REALLY young, and though I had no idea what I was doing, I was obsessed with it. Too bad the game's been forgotten...

Well, it did have an appearance in Lost Magic on the DS.

 

[Wonder Smash]

CHARACTERS!

CHECKLISTS!!

Funny! As of just a few minutes ago, I beat Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts for the very first time.

 

[fogbadge]

thinking about it, ash leaving the anime is gonna be quite a blow for meowth in smash

 

[ceterisparibus]

Regarding the genshin talk, just your daily reminder that Nintendo doesn't care about ports, controversy, "game uniqueness" or smash speculation, least of all whether there's any nintendo connection. Especially when dragon quest and persona/tekken weren't clear enough to drive home that message, and they were already making overtunes to microsoft about minecraft back in smash 4!
They've been consistent about reaching out to the biggest and most popular third-party IPs that can bring in new audiences and genshin is more or less consistent with that direction. If you want to bring up more valid arguments, at least point out that genshin's success is only in the short term and it would need to maintain that streak so that its not just a flash in the pan.

Also presuming that halo is a shoo-in is way too optimistic. I mean, yea sure its a pretty big deal "if" it gets in, but there are lots of potential obstacles - lets not end up like the intense doom speculation back in 2019?

 

[Geno Boost]

The only ones I think Square Enix would probably allow are Bubble Bobble and Space Invaders, since both of those were a big deal back then. Otherwise, I can't see them wanting to promote stuff aside from their own games that they are experienced with.

Also, one of the first, not the first. Baraduke came out in May while Typhoon Gal came out in October. I'm not 100% certain if Baraduke was the first, but at the least, Baraduke came before Typhoon Gal.

Eh I think Taito side of Square-Enix is less restrictive from what I have seen Taito tends to make a lot of their games crossovers between many taito franchises same cannot be said about square-Enix franchises even getting Taito music wouldn’t be legal nightmare
I could see Taito getting the SNK treatment

 

[DarthEnderX]

Funny! As of just a few minutes ago, I beat Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts for the very first time.

But did you beat it TWICE?

 

[Wonder Smash]

But did you beat it TWICE?

Yes...for the first time.

I always use to just give up when the game tells me to do it all over again using that bracelet.

 

[Oracle Link]

Wait a minute, if Nintendo technically acknowledged SmashBoards, then does that mean... SmashBoards for Smash?

Yeah, IDK where I was going with this...

Oh God Wario Wario Wario is going to kill us all!
Also neat i was in the Video a Few Times although i hope i dont get torn to shreds in a potential Sequel!

 

[Pupp135]

This question is going to be weird and orthodox to ask but.

What does Smash Bros mean to you? from gameplay, modes, speculation? What themes could you associate with the Smash Bros Franchise.

Ultimate and Smash Season ended since a year ago but yet here we are still speculating as if Smash 6 is still out.

Why is that? What gives us the drive and desire still speculate for this franchise whilst most have left?

For me, I think what SSB means to me is having a fun, casual crossover fighter that was one of my favorite childhood video games along with Fire Emblem and later on CoD and Minecraft.
While I have a couple characters that I like and I sometimes speculate what will happen next, I‘m don‘t know what will happen in terms of character selection, and I’m usually wrong. While I’m usually wrong, it’s cool seeing what Sakurai and the mod/fangame devs (SSF2/Crusade/Smash Remix/Smash 1) come up with in terms of character additions.
Also, there are some fun gameplay features that have been added over time for casual players like me like stage builder and 8 player battles that I’ve liked (I don’t play these, but I think that the sports modes in SSF2 are cool ideas, and Crusade has a custom stock feature too)
If I’m being honest, my interest for this series/speculation is probably from nostalgia.

 

[Delzethin]

I just realized something:

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

 

[HyperSomari64]

I just realized something:

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

Remember when a god**** Tetromino was speculated just because of a crossover and people didn't known what a Puyo Puyo was?

 

[SPEN18]

I just realized something:

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

I, on the other hand, would prefer to go back to centering speculation more heavily on merit. I don't see much point in arguing why moveset X would be more fun than moveset Y when that's miles more hopelessly subjective than merit-based discussion. To be clear, I welcome people bringing in all their cool ideas and concepts, and I love to hear them; but I think those considerations are generally far too nebulous to be useful indicators of why character X should/would be in over character Y (sans legitimate eligibility concerns).

I trust the soundness of Smash's overall mechanics to be able to suit whichever group of equally unique characters are chosen; in fact, the actual beauty of Smash's mechanics is that very adaptability: they are built specifically to be apt for bringing together these great and varied worlds.

Not that discussion of Smash's core mechanics isn't valid also; I just feel that the outcomes of such discussion should/would almost never barrier a worthy addition.

 

[LiveStudioAudience]

Part of the issue is that how a character manifests in terms of fighting style is almost more tricky to predict and speculate on than the roster inclusion. Yes there are characters like a Banjo-Kazooie whose final form is roughly similar to general expectations, but there are various others where how the character dances in Sakurai's head can be very much outside typical expectation. Monster Hunter alone has so many different directions it could go in for Smash that trying to argue moveset potential in and of itself could yield half a dozen different ideas/arguments for it.

Deserved status has its own fallibility as a debate tactic, but I completely understand why so many of us fall back to it because its a bit easier to concretely define when arguing on a character's behalf and is a simpler barometer for most people to immediately understand.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I just realized something:

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

Problem is, gameplay potential (or, its even more nebulous yet more accurate “dancing in Sakurai’s mind” or “having something unique to them”) is entirely idiosyncratic even though it is probably the closest thing to the real process. K. Rool had a bazillion fanmade sets only for Sakurai to base his uniqueness around a mechanic he basically made up from scratch. Rosalina had her gameplay hook designed by the hand of a fighting game trope and was a higher priority newcomer than our first mech user. It’s as if the frontrunners for Splatoon’s newcomers were Octoling, DJ Octavio and Cap’n Cuttlefish, for the latter to get in with a moveset based around Rolento’s Street Fighter and the second’s more apparent design influences to be on the brink of the cutting room floor. Incineroar got chosen out of all Pokémon designs possible and in direct competition with a grass/ghost sniper archer and an earthbending, two-formed wolf because he’s a wrestler.

For as much as classic speculation feels like throwing darts blindfolded and get one stuck up your arse, to base speculation around gameplay potential is like asking your five year old niece which dart she thinks is prettiest. It’s like Churchill said: Merit-speculation is the worst of all speculation forms, outside of all the other ones we tried.

Also, yes, the hunt for IPa rather than characters is something that bothers me. However, it is the road Nintendo itself has chosen for DLC and has only strayed from it for Sepiroth, seemingly following the hungry credits caterpillar model of recent speculation for the majority of the fighter packs.

 

[Gengar84]

I think there’s a place for both merit based discussion and sharing ideas for your favorites that might not have the best chances of making it in. Focusing too heavily on merit narrows discussion down to just a few characters and I personally feel it gets a bit boring. However, ignoring merit and only talking about your favorites can have its own issues like shutting down discussion on characters just because they happen to be popular. Everyone has their own interests and reasons to be excited about Smash so I think it’s great that we see both sides of the topic discussed around here. One big thing I try to keep in mind is that no one is forcing anyone to participate in discussion of any particular subject. If something doesn’t interest you, rather than try to shut it down, just take a break for a bit until a new topic is brought up that you have more interest in.

 

[Chuderz]

If a Taito character gets in I'm putting my chips on Bubble-Bobble. Too easy a lay-up for a character to ignore. That's really the only retro rep Square really has outside of old FF/DQ characters like Black Mage (please be Vivi) or Slime.

Some other retro choices from other third parties could be Dig-Dug (Bamco), Pitfall Harry (Soon Microsoft), Frogger/Bomberman/Contra (Konami), Ryu Hayabusa (Koei-Tecmo) or we could even look inward and consider some choice Nintendo retro reps like Donkey Kong Jr., Sukapon or Mach Rider.

Also if we're talking about characters that invite a new subset of players into Smash I really think we ought to consider a World of Warcraft and/or Starcraft character. It's just too easy. That's a group of dedicated gamers that probably has relatively very minimal crossover with Smash's audience.

If we're talking about a character's worthiness based on sales then a Grand Theft Auto character is astronomically obvious that it's not even really open to discussion especially if we're judging Minecraft's merits based on sales.

 

[Speed Weed]

Bub and Bob coming with a bunch of Taito stuff would actually be awesome. The day we get Daddy Mulk in Smash is a good one

 

[Gengar84]

If a Taito character gets in I'm putting my chips on Bubble-Bobble. Too easy a lay-up for a character to ignore. That's really the only retro rep Square really has outside of old FF/DQ characters like Black Mage (please be Vivi) or Slime.

Some other retro choices from other third parties could be Dig-Dug (Bamco), Pitfall Harry (Soon Microsoft), Frogger/Bomberman/Contra (Konami), Ryu Hayabusa (Koei-Tecmo) or we could even look inward and consider some choice Nintendo retro reps like Donkey Kong Jr., Sukapon or Mach Rider.

Also if we're talking about characters that invite a new subset of players into Smash I really think we ought to consider a World of Warcraft and/or Starcraft character. It's just too easy. That's a group of dedicated gamers that probably has relatively very minimal crossover with Smash's audience.

If we're talking about a character's worthiness based on sales then a Grand Theft Auto character is astronomically obvious that it's not even really open to discussion especially if we're judging Minecraft's merits based on sales.

Yeah, I personally feel that WarCraft and StarCraft are hugely underrated in the Smash community. They both played a huge part in influencing gaming as a whole. They each also have amazing character designs with tons of unique abilities to make a really fun moveset. StarCraft even had a port on the N64 so there is some Nintendo connection at least. It’s weird because a lot of the character designs are bright and stylish which I would think would appeal to other Nintendo fans. I feel like the biggest reason for the lack of overlap is due to the fact that most of Blizzard’s games are primarily on PC and haven’t been on many Nintendo consoles although that doesn’t really explain why Master Chief is so popular among Smash fans with even less representation on Nintendo than most Blizzard IP’s. The biggest issue is all of Activision/Blizzard’s controversy. If that can be addressed somehow, I’d love to see one of their characters make it in.

I also loved Bubble Bobble on the NES as a kid so I think Bub and Bob would make for fun additions to the roster as well. I think it would be cool to see more third party retro characters in general. A lot of my favorite characters originate from the NES and SNES generations.

 

[ceterisparibus]

Obviously pure sale numbers aren't the only factor, or else CoD dude, the pong bar and candy crush tiffi would be our headliners (and what a terrible future it would be).

But its pretty clear that nintendo goes for the most recognizable IPs and characters most of the time. Should that stop people from restricting their discussion? No of course not. But these kind of things go both ways, and depending on the conversation (say, if i wanted to throw out my headcanon on conker's moveset thats fine, but pretending he has a good shot is just asking to get it pointed out).


Anyway blizzard characters are more or less a pretty long reach given you know, japan's complete nonchalence again as well as massive competition from their microsoft brethen. It's not that far a stretch to assume that the number of new western reps next smash can probably be counted off one hand.

 

[Gengar84]

Obviously pure sale numbers aren't the only factor, or else CoD dude, the pong bar and candy crush tiffi would be our headliners (and what a terrible future it would be).

But its pretty clear that nintendo goes for the most recognizable IPs and characters most of the time. Should that stop people from restricting their discussion? No of course not. But these kind of things go both ways, and depending on the conversation (say, if i wanted to throw out my headcanon on conker's moveset thats fine, but pretending he has a good shot is just asking to get it pointed out).


Anyway blizzard characters are more or less a pretty long reach given you know, japan's complete nonchalence again as well as massive competition from their microsoft brethen. It's not that far a stretch to assume that the number of new western reps next smash can probably be counted off one hand.

We do know now that western third parties are not off the table, however, thanks to Banjo and Steve. For all we know, Ultimate could have been the start of a shift to include popular characters from around the world and not just limit them to Japan. I think it’s too early to say.

If we’re looking for very influential or iconic western properties that also fit into the aesthetic and gameplay of Smash, I think Blizzard’s IP are definitely in the conversation along with others like Chief, Crash, a League of Legends character, and a few others. There’s also characters that are less iconic overall but have stronger ties to Nintendo like Fulgore, the Battletoads, Conker, Joanna Dark, and Rayman.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I always use to just give up when the game tells me to do it all over again using that bracelet.

Technically, you only need to use the bracelet for the very end.

Still sucks though.

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

Nope. The roster is all most people care about. And that's okay.

Bub and Bob coming with a bunch of Taito stuff would actually be awesome. The day we get Daddy Mulk in Smash is a good one

Vegeta Yes TFS

I have memes to make for this. There will be YESSSSS Memes. Thanks TFS and Takahata for Amazing voice lines.Episode 60.

www.youtube.com

 

[Chuderz]

I think lumping all western characters in with Candy Crush and COD guy is purposefully uncharitable to the point of absurdity. Candy Crush's main problem is lack of demand and the audience is extremely casual to the point where they won't even buy Nintendo products aimed directly at them. This is the complete opposite of the point I made about the Blizzard IPs because that audience is already comprised of dedicated gamers right out the gate which makes them appealing if Nintendo is considering bringing new fans to Smash. COD guy's main problem is just that, he's basically a generic soldier with no real character whereas the Blizzard IP again don't suffer from this. There's also the fact that Chief and Doomslayer are way more requested than COD solider guy and could literally do everything he could do WAAAAAAY better and with far more personality. Not to mention I think they over-rely on celebrities for their games because when I think of a COD character I always picture that guy from Law and Order. Finally Pong Bar is also represented as an assist trophy.

I think with regard to Grand Theft Auto that all of these arguments also apply. The characters from those games all have well-established personalities outside of Claude from GTA3. The "worthiness" of GTA also really can't be disputed. I'd love to watch Fire Emblem characters go up against CJ or Trevor. It'd be funny as hell and highlight one of Smash's core strengths which is character diversity and the broad appeal thereof.

I also think it's unfair to assume that this couldn't potentially be the start of western characters getting into the game more frequently just like I think it's not appropriate to assume that's a guaranteed sure thing either.

 

[Chuderz]

Sorry accidently quoted myself and double posted. Please delete.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I just realized something:

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

It's the way it is. And it's getting a little out of the hand especially since all the actual big names are already in now.

Hard pressed myself into thinking which third party franchises would "deserve" it most are Monster Hunter and Ninja Gaiden. Can't think of other, maybe a forced fighting game franchise with big name and fame, cause they seem popular picks since Ryu, to be classic and to stand up to a friend with Gengar84 I'll say Battle Toads . I'm also biased to say Yooka Laylee, because everything about them screams Nintendo.

First party characters is less muddy to me. I say that all three missing playable Kongs from Tropical Freeze should make an entry; Dixie, Cranky and Funky as a Echo. Then there's Bandana Dee and Impa, Isaac too for a classic popular request. And that rounds it up for me. We're sure to get new characters from Xenoblade, Pokemon and Fire Emblem too. And Mario is propably getting someone.

 

[Sucumbio]

Pokemon Scarlet & Violet Has A Cinderace Raid On The Way

Pokemon Scarlet & Violet are getting a new raid, and it's a seven-star Cinderace.

www.gamespot.com

So like, I remember cinderace being discussed in the old thread, and now this so maybe he's still possible?

 

[Wonder Smash]

I just realized something:

Back before Ultimate, a lot of newcomer speculation would get hung up on which characters "deserved" to get into Smash. There were always heated debates over characters' worthiness for reasons that were questionable at best and rarely lined up with what Sakurai and the Smash devs actually focused on.

Nowadays...the focus is on which third party franchises or full on companies "deserve" to be in, with the same heated debates as before in a different context. Two flavors of the same thing, and it still makes the same mistake of laser-focusing on the roster as if the game itself doesn't exist.

Frustrating, innit?

It's more related to the idea of Smash being a "celebration of video game history" , which was said by Sakurai himself.

Though I'm not sure what you mean by "as if the game itself doesn't exist".