Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[fogbadge]

I'm just saying that SMB's success was independent from what ROB did. They're both completely unrelated to each other.

none the less ROB sold a lot of nes and nintendo themselves seem to think that was pretty important to them

 

[Yamat08]

Asking this as the guy with P3 protag pfp: Does anyone really considers him as the face of the series? I like the guy and he's really popular but I think it's hard to argue against Joker being the most recognizable character in the series at this point.

I haven't gotten too into Persona, but I remember P3 being when the series really seemed to start gaining some traction, so it's definitely pretty significant (likely why its protagonist got in as a Mii costume).

I do not know if it is true, but somewhere I read that Masahiro Sakurai was looking for someone else to continue the Super Smash Bros. series and did not find anyone. But I still have hopes for the Super Smash Bros. series that it will continue.

While I wouldn't deny that Sakurai's personal flare was likely a big factor in Smash's success, I don't think finding a successor will be that tall of a task. Of course, I'd be remiss not to mention that Smash has succeeded where several other crossover fighting games seem to have just floundered and died. However, Smash has already established a pretty solid baseline for itself as is, enough so that fan mods gain plenty of traction. Unless Nintendo chose a guy whose roster choices included his cat, it seems like it'd be pretty hard to screw that up.

 

[Wonder Smash]

none the less ROB sold a lot of nes and nintendo themselves seem to think that was pretty important to them

I don't doubt that it's important to Nintendo in its own way. I just think people are exaggerating what it did. It managed to sell pretty well I guess but it being the reason why we're talking about Mario to this day? That's going too far there.

 

[fogbadge]

I don't doubt that it's important to Nintendo in its own way. I just think people are exaggerating what it did. It managed to sell pretty well I guess but it being the reason why we're talking about Mario to this day? That's going too far there.

no body attributed marios success to ROB's

and i certainly didnt declare it was the reason we were all talking about mario, some of us come from places where the market didnt crash

 

[TCT~Phantom]

I think Chrom would be a better "base face" for Fire Emblem in Smash on account of him being Fire Emblem's "Cloud" or "Joker" (or "Makoto Yuki/Minato Arisato" depending on who you talk to).

Joker and Persona 5 are the face of Persona. While Persona was always a cult classic, it was Persona 5 that really put Persona in the spotlight and pushed it into the mainstream. Persona 5 is probably the most iconic JRPG of the last decade. The comparison to Cloud honestly is not a terrible comparison. FF7 was the game that made Final Fantasy a big deal. Now, Persona 5 is not as big as FF7 was for the PS1 or Final Fantasy. I honestly do not think many games could really reach that level of impact both on the gaming industry and the culture around gaming. But its influence is there. I honestly expect P5 to be one of those games that gets talked about for years in the future, even after Persona 6 eventually comes out.

P5 already has a pretty big legacy especially among JRPGs, and it did not even reach its final form in Royal until 2019/2020. There is a reason that people are begging to get it ported either to PC or the Switch. It's a big deal game.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think it's fair to say the R.O.B gimmick worked in terms of marketing the Nintendo Entertainment System to Americans especially in the early days when the console bundle was test sold in Manhattan. The original commercial featured him too and it was not long before everyone and their uncle wanted an NES even if they didn't wanna pay the higher bundle cost to get the R.O.B. package. Nintendo chose the package to say "hi America" and it paid off... quite literally a Trojan Horse of marketing.

So, I suppose from that perspective, you could argue that without the R.O.B. gimmick the NES wouldn't have caught on. I don't believe that to be the case, personally. I think it was indeed a neat feature and definitely aided in hyping the console. But to me the console sold itself. Gamers were hungry. And Super Mario is what raised the bar in terms of quality gaming to the point where frankly the Atari 2600 looked embarrassingly primative.

Another thing that set Nintendo apart was the Seal of Quality which tampered down the issue of shovelware that the 2600 had. While quality programming still was tons of fun from the likes of Activision, Imagic, and Parker Bros. to name a few, many titles, even Atari owned titles, failed horribly ... like their port of Pac-Man.

But anyway I think having R.O.B. be a central part of SSE was a fine decision and so having him playable made sense. If he were to be cut I wouldn't miss him but I understand his popularity.

 

[Wonder Smash]

no body attributed marios success to ROB's

and i certainly didnt declare it was the reason we were all talking about mario, some of us come from places where the market didnt crash

Some people have. After ROB was revealed in Brawl, there were people who were claiming that we wouldn't even be playing Super Mario Bros. if it wasn't for ROB. Then there was also GameSpy's article literally claiming that ROB "saved video games", even mentioning the crash but surprisingly never mentioned Super Mario Bros. anywhere in that article.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who still think like that.

 

[fogbadge]

Some people have. After ROB was revealed in Brawl, there were people who were claiming that we wouldn't even be playing Super Mario Bros. if it wasn't for ROB. Then there was also GameSpy's article literally claiming that ROB "saved video games", even mentioning the crash but surprisingly never mentioned Super Mario Bros. anywhere in that article.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are people who still think like that.

well that article sounds daft the rest of us still had video games

 

[SPEN18]

On Mother/F-Zero:

Simply put, the receptions and legacies of these series are very good.

Both Earthbound and F-Zero GX appear on Wikipedia's list of "video games considered the best," which is actually a sort of compilation of such lists from various outlets (check the citations for more details on which outlets included which games). Of course, none of these kinds of lists are end-all-be-alls, but I think it basically universal that we're talking about some extremely high-quality games here. I'll add anecdotally that I am never surprised to see Earthbound in particular in such conversations, especially in Nintendo-tilted ones.

Besides just bare-bones citations and irrespective of any Smash favoritism, these were among Nintendo's best of their respective days, at the very least retrospectively. Mother, being created by Itoi, has always had special attention from Nintendo's higher-ups and eventually also got that same respect from gamers worldwide. It is a standard example of Nintendo taking their own (wildly successful) spin on a popular genre. And the original F-Zero was one of only two Japanese launch titles for SNES; much more importantly than that, it was also tip-top technologically for its time and set a standard for any serious racer.

Perhaps a good way to say it is that F-Zero was genre-defining while Mother was genre-defying.

The only thing really missing is the super-big-boy sales, though at least F-Zero has had multiple 1+million sellers.

So while these series have received some favoritism through Smash (more so with Mother, I estimate), the legacy is well beyond that. Smash can give you the visibility or exposure, but it can't really make critics like your games. These franchises are still pretty clearly worth representing with at least one PC each, in my assessment. Certainly in a roster of 50+ or 70+ characters, IMO even in a smallish roster of like 30+, you can justifiably make room for Ness and Falcon.

An additional rep for Mother I think largely depends on how you rate Mother 3 specifically, but here I'm just arguing for at least one rep from each of Mother and F-Zero.

 

[Gengar84]

Joker and Persona 5 are the face of Persona. While Persona was always a cult classic, it was Persona 5 that really put Persona in the spotlight and pushed it into the mainstream. Persona 5 is probably the most iconic JRPG of the last decade. The comparison to Cloud honestly is not a terrible comparison. FF7 was the game that made Final Fantasy a big deal. Now, Persona 5 is not as big as FF7 was for the PS1 or Final Fantasy. I honestly do not think many games could really reach that level of impact both on the gaming industry and the culture around gaming. But its influence is there. I honestly expect P5 to be one of those games that gets talked about for years in the future, even after Persona 6 eventually comes out.

P5 already has a pretty big legacy especially among JRPGs, and it did not even reach its final form in Royal until 2019/2020. There is a reason that people are begging to get it ported either to PC or the Switch. It's a big deal game.

Would this also be true of Alphen and Shionne from Tales at this point? I’ve been a big fan of the Tales of series since Symphonia but it feels like Tales of Arise brought the series into the mainstream in the same way that P5 did for Persona. I know Lloyd is still the more popular request for Smash because people have been wanting him for a lot longer but I personally feel like Alphen and Shionne may have more mainstream recognition at this point. I could be wrong though and overestimating Tales of Arise’s popularity.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

Would this also be true of Alphen and Shionne from Tales at this point? I’ve been a big fan of the Tales of series since Symphonia but it feels like Tales of Arise brought the series into the mainstream in the same way that P5 did for Persona. I know Lloyd is still the more popular request for Smash because people have been wanting him for a lot longer but I personally feel like Alphen and Shionne may have more mainstream recognition at this point. I could be wrong though and overestimating Tales of Arise’s popularity.

I feel it is far too close to the ball dropping to make an assumption like that on Arise. The game came out what, last year? It is far far too soon to make that level of assumption about how much Arise jutted Tales into/back into the mainstream. It has already sold around 2 million units, which is big for the series but is not yet at Symphonia's 2.4 million. It could certainly climb up or be a slower burn like how FFXV was, but right now it is too soon to say that Arise is at that level of cultural osmosis. Also, if you want a clearer comparison to P5 and how it became the face of Persona, it sold 5 million units compared to P4's 2.5 million after the PC port. FF7 literally was the second best selling game on the PS1 and is still iirc the best selling Final Fantasy game of all time.

Could Arise end up being what people think of when they think of Tales, like P5 or FF7 are for their franchises? Maybe, but its not at that point yet.

 

[Pupp135]

On Mother/F-Zero:

Simply put, the receptions and legacies of these series are very good.

Both Earthbound and F-Zero GX appear on Wikipedia's list of "video games considered the best," which is actually a sort of compilation of such lists from various outlets (check the citations for more details on which outlets included which games). Of course, none of these kinds of lists are end-all-be-alls, but I think it basically universal that we're talking about some extremely high-quality games here. I'll add anecdotally that I am never surprised to see Earthbound in particular in such conversations, especially in Nintendo-tilted ones.

Besides just bare-bones citations and irrespective of any Smash favoritism, these were among Nintendo's best of their respective days, at the very least retrospectively. Mother, being created by Itoi, has always had special attention from Nintendo's higher-ups and eventually also got that same respect from gamers worldwide. It is a standard example of Nintendo taking their own (wildly successful) spin on a popular genre. And the original F-Zero was one of only two Japanese launch titles for SNES; much more importantly than that, it was also tip-top technologically for its time and set a standard for any serious racer.

Perhaps a good way to say it is that F-Zero was genre-defining while Mother was genre-defying.

The only thing really missing is the super-big-boy sales, though at least F-Zero has had multiple 1+million sellers.

So while these series have received some favoritism through Smash (more so with Mother, I estimate), the legacy is well beyond that. Smash can give you the visibility or exposure, but it can't really make critics like your games. These franchises are still pretty clearly worth representing with at least one PC each, in my assessment. Certainly in a roster of 50+ or 70+ characters, IMO even in a smallish roster of like 30+, you can justifiably make room for Ness and Falcon.

An additional rep for Mother I think largely depends on how you rate Mother 3 specifically, but here I'm just arguing for at least one rep from each of Mother and F-Zero.

While I have noticed Mother’s cult classic status before, I guess I’ve overlooked F-Zero’s legacy, and influence is an important factor that can exist outside of sales or relevancy. This post helps me understand why people feel more confident about Ness and Falcon staying in later entries compared to other staples like Sheik.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Today on "unexpected news":

Apple in talks to buy EA gaming, Disney and Amazon also potential suitors https://t.co/YigYyvWULA by @aamcdani

— 9to5Mac (@9to5mac) May 23, 2022

FWIW, Disney is willing to work with Smash...

 

[Quillion]

If Nintendo gets in on this awful acquisition war, the industry will be dead to me.

 

[PeridotGX]

If Nintendo gets in on this awful acquisition war, the industry will be dead to me.

Kid named The Industry

(I personally wouldn't mind Nintendo joining this game, but they've already said they won't so there's little point discussing it)

 

[Quillion]

(I personally wouldn't mind Nintendo joining this game, but they've already said they won't)

GOOD. We don't need an oligopoly of companies that own every major developer.

 

[chocolatejr9]

If Nintendo gets in on this awful acquisition war, the industry will be dead to me.

Aside from the fact Nintendo themselves don't wanna join in, I feel if they DO join in, it'll only be because they feel they have to, or else they'll lose somebody important. Think the Next Level Games buyout from a few years back.

 

[Quillion]

Aside from the fact Nintendo themselves don't wanna join in, I feel if they DO join in, it'll only be because they feel they have to, or else they'll lose somebody important. Think the Next Level Games buyout from a few years back.

I've noticed that Nintendo is only acquiring companies they've been working with very closely for years as opposed to trying to force a big third-party company under their banner.

Is there an interview with a Nintendo official who said that they're not planning on joining this acquisition war?

 

[PeridotGX]

GOOD. We don't need an oligopoly of companies that own every major developer.

I think a few purchases would be very beneficial. The main problem is that Nintendo just has more IPs than studios. Series like Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Metroid, and Donkey Kong have gone years without games because their studio is working on some other series, and every time they create a new IP (which would be nice to see more often) it means it will take even longer. Nintendo, as a console manufacturer, also needs a steady stream of exclusives to keep people interested, and now that the Wii U well is almost dry, there are going to be bigger gaps in the schedule. I'm not saying they should buy Capcom or anything, but I think tying the knot with common collaborators (Grezzo and Mercury Steam leap to mind) in order to give them bigger budgets (a simmilar boost to what Monolith got) would be smart, as would picking up a few indie level studios (many of which would leap at the opportunity to develop for Nintendo).

 

[Quillion]

I think a few purchases would be very beneficial. The main problem is that Nintendo just has more IPs than studios. Series like Animal Crossing, Pikmin, Metroid, and Donkey Kong have gone years without games because their studio is working on some other series, and every time they create a new IP (which would be nice to see more often) it means it will take even longer. Nintendo, as a console manufacturer, also needs a steady stream of exclusives to keep people interested, and now that the Wii U well is almost dry, there are going to be bigger gaps in the schedule. I'm not saying they should buy Capcom or anything, but I think tying the knot with common collaborators (Grezzo and Mercury Steam leap to mind) in order to give them bigger budgets (a simmilar boost to what Monolith got) would be smart, as would picking up a few indie level studios (many of which would leap at the opportunity to develop for Nintendo).

Grezzo wouldn't be a bad buy considering Sony bought Bluepoint. It would make them an even better remake studio.

I like that Nintendo is focusing on acquiring only the companies that have essentially been exclusively working with them.

 

[JOJONumber691]

All I know is that I want them to buy Square because Square is going to get bought out sooner than later, and I’d prefer Nintendo over Sony any day!

 

[Quillion]

All I know is that I want them to buy Square because Square is going to get bought out sooner than later, and I’d prefer Nintendo over Sony any day!

Oh yeah, Squeenix threw away everything that made them money in the west aside from Final Fantasy to invest in NFTs, which utterly failed.

You know, what if Disney buys them?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Kinda wish Nintendo bought Alpha Dream.

Good night Sweet Prince.

 

[JOJONumber691]

Oh yeah, Squeenix threw away everything that made them money in the west aside from Final Fantasy to invest in NFTs, which utterly failed.

You know, what if Disney buys them?

Wouldn’t be shocked at all. Honestly I hope it’s Disney or Nintendo because I really don’t want Sony to buy Square.

 

[Ivander]

If Nintendo gets in on this awful acquisition war, the industry will be dead to me.

Nintendo did mention they had no intention of joining. Only if an important partner was in danger of being bought or going down would they step in. So more than likely, they'll only step in if one of their notable developer partners, like Intelligent Systems or Game Freak, becomes in danger of being taken or going down, like what happened with Next Level Games.
The only other time I could see them stepping in is if a notable 3rd Party developer, like Koei Tecmo or Namco Bandai that has worked with them and makes games for their system, becomes in danger of being bought by a competitor. While I don't know what they would do with Capcom or Square Enix if they were in danger of being bought, since they are mainly a 3rd Party developer that puts games onto systems, Koei Tecmo and Namco Bandai feel like the primary candidates of companies Nintendo would be more than willing to involve themselves in since those two not only put games on their system, but have actually made games for Nintendo, especially Namco.
Besides doing Smash Bros, Namco has been a constant partner with Nintendo since the Gamecube era, having done:

• Donkey Konga, a Donkey Kong version of Taiko no Tatsujin. Heck, they made 3 of them.
• Star Fox Assault
• The Mario Baseball games
• Pokken Tournament(and it's updated re-release on the Switch) and New Pokemon Snap
• Mario Sports Superstars
• And there were the two Mario Kart Arcade games.
• Project X Zone 1 and 2 technically, due to Monolith Soft, being owned by Nintendo, developing it.
• Also IIRC it was one of Bandai Namco's teams that was originally doing Metroid Prime 4 before Nintendo had the project re-done and bring back Retro Studios for it. It's possible that the team is still helping develop it, since we have no idea on what's been happening with Retro and it's state and Retro could use the help with developing.
• And heavily important, Namco was very cooperative in giving Monolith Soft to Nintendo, which not only resulted in giving Nintendo a big development team that aided in Legend of Zelda, Splatoon and Animal Crossing, but also gave Nintendo a powerhouse of a franchise in Xenoblade.

So far, when it comes to big 3rd Party developers that have a notable history with Nintendo, Bandai Namco is easily the biggest one and the one I'm positive Nintendo would involve themselves in a heartbeat if they were in danger of being bought. Koei Tecmo is the 2nd one I could see Nintendo stepping in if they were in danger of being bought, with Koei Tecmo having become a notable partner since the success of Hyrule Warriors and making 2 more Hyrule Warriors games and 2 Fire Emblem Warriors games.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I personally wouldn't mind Nintendo joining this game

I'd be pretty hyped if Nintendo acquired Capcom or Konami or Squareenix. Just imagine the Smash possibilities...

I don't want to see Nintendo trying to acquire western studios though.

 

[SPEN18]

I honestly think Porky is best represented as a boss not only for the fact that it's already established work that simply needs to be imported over but because I also think it's the best way to represent him. Smash in general should expand upon what players can do with boss battles. Boss rush is a no brainer but we should be able to order the bosses in any way we see fit and however many we want to face so that'd also include the option for a single battle with one boss. Maybe even matching them up as pairs to fight against? On top of that the ability for a player (or players plural) to play as a boss character to fight other boss characters and the regular cast of Smash would be amazing. Give each boss a block mechanic that severely reduces damage taken at the cost of being unable to attack so players can really go crazy at all levels of skill.

To add to Lucas' potential rework I just remembered the old Ness Up-Special (PK Thunder) custom moves. Namely that big green one that's bigger and more powerful but a bit slower. Give that to either Ness or Lucas to help differentiate them some more. Ness' Neutral-Special PK Flash should allow for an upward trajectory input (like hold Neutral-Special and then hold Up on the left control stick) that mimics the trajectory of his one custom move that shoots the PK Flash directly upward. Maybe to make it fair allow Lucas' PK Freeze to have a bigger horizontal trajectory should the player hold forward on the control stick (relative to where they're facing) to give the attack (PK Freeze) more distance.

Give a Ninten echo the rest of the customs like the faster PK fire that doesn't cause a firepit, the PK Thunder that hits multiple times and PSI Vacuum.

I actually really liked the SSBB Porky boss fight. I would have liked for him to return to the role in Ultimate. Same with Rayquaza.

And yeah, bosh rush was sorely missing in Ultimate; maybe it will return in full style next time.

I'm not sure how they'd achieve playing as bosses successfully without it being too janky? Like, you press one button and the attack takes maybe several seconds to complete? The mechanics of boss fights would have to be significantly reworked for it to feel right, I think.

Aren't the Thunders already fairly different? I'm not seeing how the other special move would be any more different. And I like how they did Flash in Ult, actually. Anyway, it's supposed to be kind of awkward to use and hard to hit with, based on how it is in the source material.

 

[Quillion]

Nintendo did mention they had no intention of joining. Only if an important partner was in danger of being bought or going down would they step in. So more than likely, they'll only step in if one of their notable developer partners, like Intelligent Systems or Game Freak, becomes in danger of being taken or going down, like what happened with Next Level Games.
The only other time I could see them stepping in is if a notable 3rd Party developer, like Koei Tecmo or Namco Bandai that has worked with them and makes games for their system, becomes in danger of being bought by a competitor. While I don't know what they would do with Capcom or Square Enix if they were in danger of being bought, since they are mainly a 3rd Party developer that puts games onto systems, Koei Tecmo and Namco Bandai feel like the primary candidates of companies Nintendo would be more than willing to involve themselves in since those two not only put games on their system, but have actually made games for Nintendo, especially Namco.
Besides doing Smash Bros, Namco has been a constant partner with Nintendo since the Gamecube era, having done:

• Donkey Konga, a Donkey Kong version of Taiko no Tatsujin. Heck, they made 3 of them.
• Star Fox Assault
• The Mario Baseball games
• Pokken Tournament(and it's updated re-release on the Switch) and New Pokemon Snap
• Mario Sports Superstars
• And there were the two Mario Kart Arcade games.
• Project X Zone 1 and 2 technically, due to Monolith Soft, being owned by Nintendo, developing it.
• Also IIRC it was one of Bandai Namco's teams that was originally doing Metroid Prime 4 before Nintendo had the project re-done and bring back Retro Studios for it. It's possible that the team is still helping develop it, since we have no idea on what's been happening with Retro and it's state and Retro could use the help with developing.
• And heavily important, Namco was very cooperative in giving Monolith Soft to Nintendo, which not only resulted in giving Nintendo a big development team that aided in Legend of Zelda, Splatoon and Animal Crossing, but also gave Nintendo a powerhouse of a franchise in Xenoblade.

So far, when it comes to big 3rd Party developers that have a notable history with Nintendo, Bandai Namco is easily the biggest one and the one I'm positive Nintendo would involve themselves in a heartbeat if they were in danger of being bought. Koei Tecmo is the 2nd one I could see Nintendo stepping in if they were in danger of being bought, with Koei Tecmo having become a notable partner since the success of Hyrule Warriors and making 2 more Hyrule Warriors games and 2 Fire Emblem Warriors games.

Maybe they can compromise by being a partial, significant stakeholder rather than a full owner

 

[fogbadge]

Today on "unexpected news":

Apple in talks to buy EA gaming, Disney and Amazon also potential suitors https://t.co/YigYyvWULA by @aamcdani

— 9to5Mac (@9to5mac) May 23, 2022

FWIW, Disney is willing to work with Smash...

im surprised anyone wants to

 

[RileyXY1]

GOOD. We don't need an oligopoly of companies that own every major developer.

Yeah. The amount of 3rd party publishers is slowly shrinking in the industry with Microsoft grabbing Bethesda and Activision Blizzard while Sony got Bungie and is rumored to be acquiring Square Enix. And now EA might possibly be sold off. We are in the age of acquisitions as major companies slowly grab and gobble up smaller companies.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Some people complain about the weight of in Smash because they don’t feel they matches how much they do/would weight in their source material, but to be honest, weight in Smash isn’t meant to be a literal translation of weight in general but a representation of defensive stats seen in other types of games.

 

[fogbadge]

Some people complain about the weight of in Smash because they don’t feel they matches how much they do/would weight in their source material, but to be honest, weight in Smash isn’t meant to be a literal translation of weight in general but a representation of defensive stats seen in other types of games.

people complain about the weight of characters who can float?

 

[Stratos]

Nintendo refused to buy Rare years ago as it is known and as much as I do not like it seems to me that I have to give up the thought that one day it will take it back. Although Chris Seavor, the creator of Conker’s Bad Fur Day, believes that the return of Rare IPs to Nintendo is inevitable.

 

[Quillion]

Some people complain about the weight of in Smash because they don’t feel they matches how much they do/would weight in their source material, but to be honest, weight in Smash isn’t meant to be a literal translation of weight in general but a representation of defensive stats seen in other types of games.

Except Mewtwo has a base defense of 90, so it still doesn't make sense. It also takes Sephiroth a while to go down, so that doesn't really make sense for him either.

 

[Gengar84]

Except Mewtwo has a base defense of 90, so it still doesn't make sense. It also takes Sephiroth a while to go down, so that doesn't really make sense for him either.

To be fair, you do kill Sephiroth in one attack in the final battle where it’s just one on one between him and Cloud. It’s more like an interactive cutscene than a real battle but it’s something at least.

Nintendo refused to buy Rare years ago as it is known and as much as I do not like it seems to me that I have to give up the thought that one day it will take it back. Although Chris Seavor, the creator of Conker’s Bad Fur Day, believes that the return of Rare IPs to Nintendo is inevitable.

I would personally love that but I’m not going to hold my breath. A lot of my favorite games on the SNES and N64 were developed by RARE and it would be awesome to see them back with Nintendo. I feel like Microsoft hasn’t really made the best use of their IP over the years aside from the awesome Killer Instinct reboot. It would be great to see RARE and Playtonic come together with Nintendo and return to the glory days. We might finally get to see their classic characters like the Battletoads, Fulgore, Joanna Dark, and Conker in Smash at that point.

 

[Lionfranky]

Nintendo refused to buy Rare years ago as it is known and as much as I do not like it seems to me that I have to give up the thought that one day it will take it back. Although Chris Seavor, the creator of Conker’s Bad Fur Day, believes that the return of Rare IPs to Nintendo is inevitable.

I would personally love that but I’m not going to hold my breath. A lot of my favorite games on the SNES and N64 were developed by RARE and it would be awesome to see them back with Nintendo. I feel like Microsoft hasn’t really made the best use of their IP over the years aside from the awesome Killer Instinct reboot. It would be great to see RARE and Playtonic come together with Nintendo and return to the glory days. We might finally get to see their classic characters like the Battletoads, Fulgore, Joanna Dark, and Conker in Smash at that point.

It's easy to blame MS without looking closely.

Phil Spencer says a new Banjo-Kazooie or Conker is ‘up to Rare’ | VGC

“They do like building new things… but also the response to Battletoads was nice”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

MS let Rare do whatever they wanted. Nuts and Bolts was all Rare's idea.
It's time for Nintendo fans to take off rose-tinted glass and see truth for themselves. It's annoying persistent myth.
Nintendo has plenty of its IP on dormant state. What makes you think it would be any different if Rare goes back to Nintendo?

 

[Stratos]

I would personally love that but I’m not going to hold my breath. A lot of my favorite games on the SNES and N64 were developed by RARE and it would be awesome to see them back with Nintendo. I feel like Microsoft hasn’t really made the best use of their IP over the years aside from the awesome Killer Instinct reboot. It would be great to see RARE and Playtonic come together with Nintendo and return to the glory days. We might finally get to see their classic characters like the Battletoads, Fulgore, Joanna Dark, and Conker in Smash at that point.

I agree with you.

 

[Gengar84]

It's easy to blame MS without looking closely.

Phil Spencer says a new Banjo-Kazooie or Conker is ‘up to Rare’ | VGC

“They do like building new things… but also the response to Battletoads was nice”…

www.videogameschronicle.com

MS let Rare do whatever they wanted. Nuts and Bolts was all Rare's idea.
It's time for Nintendo fans to take off rose-tinted glass and see truth for themselves. It's annoying persistent myth.
Nintendo has plenty of its IP on dormant state. What makes you think it would be any different if Rare goes back to Nintendo?

That’s true but it doesn’t really change the fact that Microsoft could have done more with their IP than they did. I realize RARE as a company is a shell of their former selves but they still have a ton of beloved characters and games. Nintendo could always go the Microsoft route and have other developers work on their IP, like Playtonic, for example.

 

[SPEN18]

The translation into Smash is more about how a character "feels" than their stats in the source material. Mewtwo in-game is a supermon with way higher stats than the likes of Pikachu, Zard, and co.

In the fights at Cerulean Cave, Mewtwo typically carries multiple defensive moves. On the other hand, comparing him to himself only, his offensive stats are higher than his defensive ones. Overall he has a quite varied movepool and, in the player's hands, it is up to them how they want to use Mewtwo. That would paint him more as an all-arounder. But at the same time his design, movements, and typically unsentimental, aggressive personality (at least upon first encounter) across game and non-game media make you picture him more as a straight powerhouse and not so much a tank.

 

[Lionfranky]

That’s true but it doesn’t really change the fact that Microsoft could have done more with their IP than they did. I realize RARE as a company is a shell of their former selves but they still have a ton of beloved characters and games. Nintendo could always go the Microsoft route and have other developers work on their IP, like Playtonic, for example.

It's entirely up to Rare to get other developers to work on other IPs. Battletoad reboot was developed by Dlala Studios. Not to mention rumored next Killer Instinct by Bandai Namco. Rare did let other developers handle their IP under their supervision. So, Rare did what you are claiming to desire.