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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

Diddy Kong

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Spirit Events always have been boring to me, except when it came to character chances. Worst was when the Age of Calamity Spirit Board came and ruined Impa's chances.
 

osby

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Spirit Events always have been boring to me, except when it came to character chances. Worst was when the Age of Calamity Spirit Board came and ruined Impa's chances.
Impa's chances were zero, to begin with when the characters for DLC were determined. We just didn't know that yet.

Just because the community decided that a character is disconfirmed after a Spirit event doesn't mean they aren't playable because of that event.
 

Diddy Kong

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Impa's chances were zero, to begin with when the characters for DLC were determined. We just didn't know that yet.

Just because the community decided that a character is disconfirmed after a Spirit event doesn't mean they aren't playable because of that event.
Putting it that way, yeah sure. The characters where predetermined, of course. But for the general speculators, Impa was off from that moment, but many thought she made a good chance this time around. Me included.

The base roster of Smash has mostly already been decided the very moment we hear of the game's existence, but we still choose to speculate based on what we're seeing, and as of Ultimate, leaks and fake leaks and whatnot.

Speaking of base rosters, I do have a feeling Impa stands a way stronger chance this next Smash. Cause Everyone Is Here with Ultimate didn't give enough room for many newcomers, the fully unique ones being ballot winners K.Rool and Ridley, third party behemoths as Simon Belmont, Inklings and Incineroar. With less competition from first party newcomers, and third party characters mostly being reserved for DLC, I think Impa is one of the few characters that would make the most sense now. Others are Bandana Dee, Tom Nook and either Dixie or Cranky Kong.
 

Gengar84

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Putting it that way, yeah sure. The characters where predetermined, of course. But for the general speculators, Impa was off from that moment, but many thought she made a good chance this time around. Me included.

The base roster of Smash has mostly already been decided the very moment we hear of the game's existence, but we still choose to speculate based on what we're seeing, and as of Ultimate, leaks and fake leaks and whatnot.

Speaking of base rosters, I do have a feeling Impa stands a way stronger chance this next Smash. Cause Everyone Is Here with Ultimate didn't give enough room for many newcomers, the fully unique ones being ballot winners K.Rool and Ridley, third party behemoths as Simon Belmont, Inklings and Incineroar. With less competition from first party newcomers, and third party characters mostly being reserved for DLC, I think Impa is one of the few characters that would make the most sense now. Others are Bandana Dee, Tom Nook and either Dixie or Cranky Kong.
If we do get Impa, I’m still hoping for her original Hyrule Warriors design even if that is very unlikely at this point. I don’t mind her AoC design but she was just so cool in HW and I feel like AoC lost some of that personally.
 

Dinoman96

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Smash Bros. hardly ever acknowledges Hyrule Warriors in general tbh. I think a large part of that is because Nintendo doesn't even publish those games in Japan, that's up to Koei Tecmo. That's certainly the biggest reason there wasn't any HW stuff in the base game, because pretty much everything else in base game Ultimate pertained to games published by Nintendo in Japan (which includes third party stuff like Rayman, Culdcept, Shovel Knight, etc) or games owned by third party companies with playable reps on the roster (Virtual Fighter, Bomberman, Monster Hunter, etc). Weirdly enough, Shantae is the one and only exception to this.

Of course Age of Calamity got a spirit event, but they were already doing a whole bunch of events based on third party stuff like Cuphead, Kunio, Warframe, No More Heroes, etc.
 

Swamp Sensei

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I need this game yesterday.

Also, for anybody who doubted BWD's importance, check who Player 2 is. Smash could use a lot of things he'd bring...
Aha! I was right when I said Bandana Waddle Dee would have a huge role in this game.

Thats pretty darn major. He's playable when Meta Knight and King Dedede don't seem to be.

People claiming he's not important don't have legs to stand on anymore. He's officially on par with Meta Knight and King Dedede in terms of role.
 
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Dinoman96

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Do you think Bandana Dee could be some sort of Luigi or Isabelle semi clone or even Lucas or Wolf pseudo clone?

I think that could be a huge boon for this chances the next game. It could mirror how Wolf got into Brawl, being a popular request that's also relatively easy to make.

Obviously all of the specials would have to be changed around, but besides those I think most of Kirby's generic kicks moves could work fine for him.
 

Lyncario

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Well, that's certainly one hell of a promotion for Bandana Dee.
It's more or less in line with how it is in Star Allies, with how he's the first Dream Friend you get since Dedede and Meta Knight both have a mandatory boss fight.
 

Dinoman96

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It's more or less in line with how it is in Star Allies, with how he's the first Dream Friend you get since Dedede and Meta Knight both have a mandatory boss fight.
I'd say being the only other playable character in Kirby's big 3D debut feels more substantial.
 

Diddy Kong

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If we do get Impa, I’m still hoping for her original Hyrule Warriors design even if that is very unlikely at this point. I don’t mind her AoC design but she was just so cool in HW and I feel like AoC lost some of that personally.
I was a strong advocate for this too. I generally like stoic Impa better than the cutesy look they where going for in Age of Calamity, but I can't say I dislike the fighting style of Impa in that game. It's unique, and really stands out, and the moves she uses sort of make more sense with her lore and design. She's also by far the most popular version of Impa. But yeah, I liked her original moveset too, especially the Naginata. I always hoped the Naginata would at least be a DLC weapon for Impa in AoC.

Smash Bros. hardly ever acknowledges Hyrule Warriors in general tbh. I think a large part of that is because Nintendo doesn't even publish those games in Japan, that's up to Koei Tecmo. That's certainly the biggest reason there wasn't any HW stuff in the base game, because pretty much everything else in base game Ultimate pertained to games published by Nintendo in Japan (which includes third party stuff like Rayman, Culdcept, Shovel Knight, etc) or games owned by third party companies with playable reps on the roster (Virtual Fighter, Bomberman, Monster Hunter, etc). Weirdly enough, Shantae is the one and only exception to this.

Of course Age of Calamity got a spirit event, but they were already doing a whole bunch of events based on third party stuff like Cuphead, Kunio, Warframe, No More Heroes, etc.
But wouldn't it be different with Age of Calamity seeing as it was marketed as a prequel to Breath of the Wild? In general, they where very ambitious with the story telling of Age of Calamity, an event that could actually have happened in another dissorted timeline of the multiverse of the Legend of Zelda. We know that the original Hyrule Warriors was overlooked yeah, shamefully so, cause if they took inspiration from it I bet a lot of the Zelda cast would be more original.
 

Yamat08

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If we do get Impa, I’m still hoping for her original Hyrule Warriors design even if that is very unlikely at this point. I don’t mind her AoC design but she was just so cool in HW and I feel like AoC lost some of that personally.
Smash Bros. hardly ever acknowledges Hyrule Warriors in general tbh. I think a large part of that is because Nintendo doesn't even publish those games in Japan, that's up to Koei Tecmo. That's certainly the biggest reason there wasn't any HW stuff in the base game, because pretty much everything else in base game Ultimate pertained to games published by Nintendo in Japan (which includes third party stuff like Rayman, Culdcept, Shovel Knight, etc) or games owned by third party companies with playable reps on the roster (Virtual Fighter, Bomberman, Monster Hunter, etc). Weirdly enough, Shantae is the one and only exception to this.

Of course Age of Calamity got a spirit event, but they were already doing a whole bunch of events based on third party stuff like Cuphead, Kunio, Warframe, No More Heroes, etc.
Koei Tecmo did, nevertheless, play some part in base Ultimate (mainly through their co-ownership of Fatal Frame, I think), which still makes it a damn shame the first Hyrule Warriors couldn't get Spirit representation. But for whatever it's worth, while Impa's HW design is likely a Koei Tecmo property, it was mostly inspired by her Skyward Sword appearance. And if Zelda and Ganondorf in Ultimate are any indication, they're more likely to pick and choose whichever incarnation of Zelda characters seem most suitable and/or popular as opposed to just going with the then-latest design like they used to.

BTW, while on the subject of Nintendo-published games, is anybody familiar with The Stretchers? Haven't played it myself, but it nevertheless intrigues me, if only for the fact that it looks so much like an indie title you'd expect to find on Steam, yet it's actually a Switch-exclusive published by Nintendo themselves (in all regions). I can't help wondering if it'll get a Spirit (or whatever) in the next Smash game (being released in 2019, it kinda missed the boat for being in base Ultimate, and I guess it wasn't high-profile enough to get a Spirit Board event).
 

Diddy Kong

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Am actually pretty sure they at least are gonna use the BotW design for Zelda this next game. There's no reason not to, especially since she actually sees some more action in this sequel from what we've seen.
 

Guynamednelson

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Am actually pretty sure they at least are gonna use the BotW design for Zelda this next game. There's no reason not to, especially since she actually sees some more action in this sequel from what we've seen.
That really depends on how LoZ character designs are represented for the next game. Will it still be a mix like Ultimate, or go back to focusing on a recent title? Or whatever the hell they were doing keeping the TP designs for 4?
 

Gengar84

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That really depends on how LoZ character designs are represented for the next game. Will it still be a mix like Ultimate, or go back to focusing on a recent title? Or whatever the hell they were doing keeping the TP designs for 4?
I still miss TP Zelda but I hope we can keep OoT Ganondorf. His design in Ultimate is my favorite Ganondorf’s ever had.

I feel like TP Zelda stood out more compared to Peach. Her current energetic and cheerful portrayal blends in a bit too much with Peach and Daisy. That and TP is my favorite Zelda design.
 
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Diddy Kong

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That really depends on how LoZ character designs are represented for the next game. Will it still be a mix like Ultimate, or go back to focusing on a recent title? Or whatever the hell they were doing keeping the TP designs for 4?
Pretty sure BotW is gonna be the design for Link and Zelda at least. Am mostly curious what they will do with Ganon, as he appears to be having a more humanoid role in BotW2. Maybe it'll be the end of "Ganondorf" and we'll get Calamity Ganon in humanoid form in Smash?

I didn't get the design choices for Smash 4 either actually, maybe it was to keep a pattern between Link, Zelda, Ganondorf and Sheik, as all didn't appear in a Zelda game together ever since Twilight Princess, where Sheik wasn't even in in the first place. This is also why I brought up to have Impa being a replacement for Sheik. Up untill today I still think having Sheik as a separate character just is weird. I get it now, with Everyone Is Here, but it was very weird in Smash 4. It was also weird in Brawl to see Twilight Princess Zelda transform into Sheik. Both don't make much sense.
 

Dinoman96

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Up untill today I still think having Sheik as a separate character just is weird. I get it now, with Everyone Is Here, but it was very weird in Smash 4. It was also weird in Brawl to see Twilight Princess Zelda transform into Sheik. Both don't make much sense.
Same thing with stuff like Captain Falcon, Roy, Ice Climbers, etc

Once a Smasher, always a Smasher. In Sheik's case she is a really popular veteran with a unique moveset and thus was carried over into future games after Melee.
 

Guynamednelson

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Pretty sure BotW is gonna be the design for Link and Zelda at least. Am mostly curious what they will do with Ganon, as he appears to be having a more humanoid role in BotW2. Maybe it'll be the end of "Ganondorf" and we'll get Calamity Ganon in humanoid form in Smash?

I didn't get the design choices for Smash 4 either actually, maybe it was to keep a pattern between Link, Zelda, Ganondorf and Sheik, as all didn't appear in a Zelda game together ever since Twilight Princess, where Sheik wasn't even in in the first place. This is also why I brought up to have Impa being a replacement for Sheik. Up untill today I still think having Sheik as a separate character just is weird. I get it now, with Everyone Is Here, but it was very weird in Smash 4. It was also weird in Brawl to see Twilight Princess Zelda transform into Sheik. Both don't make much sense.
TP Sheik was a relic of when she was going to be in that game.
 

Gengar84

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TP Sheik was a relic of when she was going to be in that game.
I’m glad they kept Sheik personally. I think her Brawl design was awesome and she was one of the coolest characters in the game. I’m fine with it not really making sense with TP Zelda.
 

waddledeeonredyoshi

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I need this game yesterday.

Also, for anybody who doubted BWD's importance, check who Player 2 is. Smash could use a lot of things he'd bring...
Completely in board on the importance of Waddle Dees in this game. It's basically the dream Kirby game my 13yo self wanted now.

If only this game could've happened a whole year sooner.
 

Gengar84

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Completely in board on the importance of Waddle Dees in this game. It's basically the dream Kirby game my 13yo self wanted now.

If only this game could've happened a whole year sooner.
I haven’t had time to watch the video but I’m glad for the confirmation of multiplayer. I was getting worried it was going to be single player. I already lost Tales and Dynasty Warriors :(.
 

Perkilator

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Do you think Bandana Dee could be some sort of Luigi or Isabelle semi clone or even Lucas or Wolf pseudo clone?

I think that could be a huge boon for this chances the next game. It could mirror how Wolf got into Brawl, being a popular request that's also relatively easy to make.

Obviously all of the specials would have to be changed around, but besides those I think most of Kirby's generic kicks moves could work fine for him.
Nah, BWD has too many moves different from Kirby to be a semi-clone. Being Player 2 in Forgotten Land doesn’t necessarily mean he’s that similar to Kirby in terms of moves.

That being said, I did take some…creative liberties, let’s just say.
 

Digital Hazard

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Smash Bros. hardly ever acknowledges Hyrule Warriors in general tbh. I think a large part of that is because Nintendo doesn't even publish those games in Japan, that's up to Koei Tecmo. That's certainly the biggest reason there wasn't any HW stuff in the base game, because pretty much everything else in base game Ultimate pertained to games published by Nintendo in Japan (which includes third party stuff like Rayman, Culdcept, Shovel Knight, etc) or games owned by third party companies with playable reps on the roster (Virtual Fighter, Bomberman, Monster Hunter, etc). Weirdly enough, Shantae is the one and only exception to this.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Pirate's Curse (at least the 3DS version) published in Japan by Nintendo?
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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Even with that, it's not always easy for everyone to remember all the 89 characters that are in the game. Especially those who don't follow Smash religiously.

You also need to pretty much be aware of this ordering to begin with and given that Ultimate sold almost as much as every other Smash game combined, there will obviously be a lot of people for whom this won't apply and this ordering is just confusing for them since this is their first Smash game ever, even if I personally like it since it retroactively makes DLC ordering feel less forced in like it was in Smash 4.

Even knowing that a game starts with [X character] and ends with [Y character] can cause someone to forget what's in-between, so your "advice" isn't helpful.
I group characters in my rosters by IP (perhaps cheating slightly by mixing Yoshi and Wario with Mario characters, but come on).
The real issue is not having options on character select ordering, as I know tons of peeps would like to group them by their IP.
It's obnoxious that this feature is omitted.
 

Diddy Kong

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Imagine the timeline where we got the the Forbidden Seven in Brawl and thus got a Toonified Sheik in the same way

View attachment 342437
Toon Sheik is literally the least interesting of the Forbidden 7, am glad this never happened. Way to cheat Tetra out too, who I still hold out was supposed to be this "Toon Sheik". In a way, they should've just cut Sheik in Brawl, and give the transformation gimmick to Toon Zelda with Tetra instead.
 

Al-kīmiyā'

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My favorite Impa design is that for AoC. The cel-shading makes it look worse, though. The HW design is good, but the large weapons don't really fit the Sheika theme of stealth.
 
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Diddy Kong

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Do you think Bandana Dee could be some sort of Luigi or Isabelle semi clone or even Lucas or Wolf pseudo clone?

I think that could be a huge boon for this chances the next game. It could mirror how Wolf got into Brawl, being a popular request that's also relatively easy to make.

Obviously all of the specials would have to be changed around, but besides those I think most of Kirby's generic kicks moves could work fine for him.
I don't think he'll be a clone, but it's definite that Bandana Dee would use Kirby as a base. He'll probably borrow quite a few of Kirby's statistics too therefore. I think they'll be of similar height, weight, jump speed, run and walk speeds more or less. But it's hard to argue Bandana Dee would be an actual clone. He has his own distinct set of abilities as you can clearly see from that one video alone.
 

Aligo

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This may be a bit mean to say, but out of all the potential Kirby characters they could use, isn't Bandanna Dee bit milquetoast? It's like he is the minmin of Kirby, the most likely but also rather dull.

I may be missing something that make Bdee more of a standout so correct me if I am wrong.
 
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Diddy Kong

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This may be a bit mean to say, but out of all the potential Kirby characters they could use, isn't Bandanna Dee bit milquetoast? It's like he is the minmin of Kirby, the most likely but also rather dull.

I may be missing something that make Bdee more of a standout so correct me if I am wrong.
I don't think he's dull at all. He'd round up the Kirby roster very nicely, 2 heroes 2 anti heroes. And having the main playable cast all there.

Sure there are more excitable possible newcomers, but did that stop Isabelle to happen?
 

Digital Hazard

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This may be a bit mean to say, but out of all the potential Kirby characters they could use, isn't Bandanna Dee bit milquetoast? It's like he is the minmin of Kirby, the most likely but also rather dull.

I may be missing something that make Bdee more of a standout so correct me if I am wrong.
That's fine by me.

I love how much Smash has catered to 3rd parties, but I despise this fandom's obssession of relying on a constant hype culture.

I didn't really get excited over Isabelle's inclusion and I know a bunch of people agree on that, but some people downright went to act like crying manchildren just because she wasn't hype.
 

Guynamednelson

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This may be a bit mean to say, but out of all the potential Kirby characters they could use, isn't Bandanna Dee bit milquetoast? It's like he is the minmin of Kirby, the most likely but also rather dull.
Waddle Dees themselves are a huge part of Kirby marketing in Japan. Given that Piranha Plant seems to be the exception rather than the rule, they might as well go with a Waddle Dee who's more of a character.

And that might be what helps Dee the whole time. Not any sort of fan demand, but the fact that Kirby's Kirby-shaped mooks are pushed just as much as Kirby himself is in Japan.
 
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