Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[DarthEnderX]

HWYR if the new Director started with a fighter's pass 3 instead of cutting their teeth just on a new Smash?

Delighted.

 

[Garteam]

HWYR if the new Director started with a fighter's pass 3 instead of cutting their teeth just on a new Smash?

Honestly, it really depends on what types of characters are actually included in FP3.

If only characters that would have been feasible for FP1 or FP2 are eligible to be FP3 (third parties and overtly promotional Nintendo characters), I'd honestly be pretty disappointed. I like third parties and Byleth was one of my highlights of Ultimate (so you can probably infer my feelings on promotional first parties), but I'd be really bummed out that we'd likely have to wait another 5-7 years for an opportunity to have characters like Bandana Waddle Dee join the roster. In that case, I'd much rather have a new Smash game or Ultimate Deluxe and wait the extra year or so it would take the FP3 characters to reach that game.

If FP3 could realistically include non-promotional Nintendo characters, I'd honestly be pretty hype for a third Fighter's Pass. Seeing Ultimate grow further would definitely be fun, even if it is a little scummy that new players would have to spend an additional $80 to get Ultimate's full roster.

 

[Simnm]

What would your reaction be if megaman got cut

 

[HyperSomari64]

again with this ****!!??

 

[pupNapoleon]

So what, exactly, was Smash for WiiU's marketing? I mean, 3DS at least had the promise of Smash on the go, but I can't really recall its console counterpart having much going for it besides just "it's the new Smash for the current console"?

Smash 4 Wii U heavily advertised 8 player Smash.

And the biggest question is: What's the subtitle of Smash 6?
I'm on a tie with Unleashed, Generations, and Kerfuffle.

If it is a reboot, then it is Smash: Genesis

Smash definitely doesn't need a premium/deluxe version on the Switch to compete with itself; the best I'd have any scrap of expectation for is some sort of sale/discount where you can buy a hard copy of the game with a code to download the DLC bundled in. They want to continue making money off the extra paid content as long as they can.

Remake/port/deluxe version is not at all likely until we get to a next console, as I'm sure even most of the pro-porters are aware. And we don't know what the next console would be like until its existence is made official, but it's highly likely to be a significant enough increase in hardware specs to make porting from Switch much less of an option. Wii U to Switch was an extremely rare type of transition, and it's probably not prudent to expect another scenario in which porting assets is so doable. Besides, selling what is essentially the same game on a different console with extra DLC that is only available on the new version of the game is probably not what they want as a pattern for their business. Yes, MK8 happened but it was an incredibly unique situation; doing this repeatedly will get people very tired very fast.

Bottom line is that
if they had wanted to add any more content to Ultimate, then they would've just continued the DLC past the second FP. They clearly deem Ultimate to be complete for the immediate and near-immediate future.

I highly doubt there's any sort of master plan to hold off on extra content for Ultimate until we get to a new console that we can port and resell on. The plan, right now, is for Ultimate to be left as-is. Anything other than that would require a unique circumstance and big change in direction.

To the bolded content... incorrect.
There are many reasons that they would hold off.
One- Nintendo isn't a company that has, in the past (to my knowledge), included more content of DLC to outcost the sale of the original game.
Two- Sakurai wanted to stop, for now.
Three- It gives time for a creative recharge, a necessary component of mental health.
Four- It allows other companies to value getting into Smash even more. Concurrently, it allows Nintendo time to create these negotiations.
Five- it Allows more all stars of the Nintendo variety to come to the forefront, particularly from the Switch cycle.
Six- it gives Sakurai more hardware specs to work with, allowing him to complete a bigger vision.
Seven, and this is the big one- The sales of DLC are at diminishing return. The cycle is not forever going to stay as such strong publicity. There is a reason that companies play with supply and demand (Nintendo especially), and it is the same reason that death brings meaning to life. By stopping the DLC cycle now, it makes the next cycle all the more valuable. Even on this site, you could read many comments about Smash reveal burnout.

 

[Geno Boost]

Today is a good day for Sonic fans and smash fans this video has been uploaded just now it looks really smooth and beautiful

 

[SPEN18]

To the bolded content... incorrect.
There are many reasons that they would hold off.
One- Nintendo isn't a company that has, in the past (to my knowledge), included more content of DLC to outcost the sale of the original game.
Two- Sakurai wanted to stop, for now.
Three- It gives time for a creative recharge, a necessary component of mental health.
Four- It allows other companies to value getting into Smash even more. Concurrently, it allows Nintendo time to create these negotiations.
Five- it Allows more all stars of the Nintendo variety to come to the forefront, particularly from the Switch cycle.
Six- it gives Sakurai more hardware specs to work with, allowing him to complete a bigger vision.
Seven, and this is the big one- The sales of DLC are at diminishing return.

Ok, so you're saying they might have content they'd like to add to Ultimate, but have practical reasons to hold off. That's fair.

But I did say "complete for the immediate and near-immediate future." Your list of reasons to hold off are all essentially time-dependent; they wouldn't practically and profitably be able to add stuff without waiting a while first. So by the point that all of these are resolved, new hardware will probably be available (to the degree that porting becomes less viable), Ultimate and its roster will start to look more dated, and new creative ideas for the series will probably form which may or may not actually make sense to just transplant into Ultimate, especially if they involve gameplay/mechanics. Thus, anything super essential that they'd like to add to Ultimate must be added soon or else at a certain point there's no ability to do it; so I think it still stands that they view the game as essentially complete from a practical viewpoint.

 

[HyperSomari64]

If it is a reboot, then it is Smash: Genesis

Just put a random framerate, and a terrible soundtrack made with a Game Boy Advance soundfont.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Just put a random framerate, and a terrible soundtrack made with a Game Boy Advance soundfont.

And also add sluggish controls to make it more worse to play.

 

[Yamat08]

If that's the case, then having that stance makes even less sense - Geno's a third party character, so severely limiting the amount of third party characters would shrink his chances to almost nothing, while removing third party characters entirely would make it outright impossible for him to be included.

(I find it weird that Square-Enix is maintaining such an iron-fisted grip on the rights for Geno even though they seemingly can't use the character and Nintendo would presumably have no problem with bringing him back for spin-offs, while they seemingly let the artists and composers have full control over the original art and music for their flagship games, if Final Fantasy's pre-Sephiroth Smash presence and the Dragon Quest composer needing to specifically be credited are any indication)

Keep in mind, though, that Square and Enix used to be separate entities. Unless the late Koichi Sugiyama's tight grip on his works wasn't so severe until specifically after the merger, then it's likely to have been completely incidental.

It is really weird that SE managed to keep the rights to all of the original Mario RPG content, whereas so many of their other games like Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, and apparently even Chrono Trigger have all these legal issues with other shareholders/parties involved. You'd think Nintendo would own Geno just as Disney owns Sora, much like how Nintendo retained the rights to Rare's DKC and Star Fox Adventures characters after the Microsoft buyout.

I'm not sure about Nintendo presumably having no problem with using Geno in spin-off games, though. We're lucky to even get Diddy Kong in Mario spinoffs now lol, and that's a character Nintendo owns.

I found it especially off that Geno couldn't even appear in Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and such. Even when Square Enix is on board, they seem intent on just letting the Super Mario RPG characters rot.

I can't speak for Melee but in general, the platforming is really REALLY bad and just awful so maybe cutting it out was out was for the best. Also N64 and Wii U content was ****poor compared to Ultimate so that don't get want you mean.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I think Ultimate has a LOT of content, and I'm usually the first person who'll condemn Smash for WiiU's lack of single-player. But I was talking about the variety of that content. I mean, there're literally around a thousand different Spirit Battles, but their ultimate goal still boils down to the same thing: kill opponent, which is essentially the same thing you already do in matches against other people (and the special conditions could more or less be replicated in Special Smash...... or having Spirits on). Meanwhile, Smash WiiU at least had the staples like Home Run Contest in the base game, having a Target mode, Trophy Rush, event matches with a more specialized win condition...... and yes, as crappy as it was, Smash Tour (I also thought Master Fortress was pretty good, and probably the closest thing that either version of Smash4 has to a platforming Adventure Mode.... though Smash Run is no slouch in that regard..... but sadly, they had to gatekeep the thing behind completing that awful Classic Mode on a high difficulty and no way to unlock it for freeplay).

In Ultimate, the only bits of fresh air are the boss battles (which can't be rematched, lest you wanna go through a ridiculously dragged-out vertical-scrolling segment every time) and Home Run Contest being added in an update (and I guess having a character run around a hand-drawn map if you felt like it). But credit where it's due, I do at least like that Spirits can be rematched now. This means that our options for a single-player opponent aren't completely held to the mercy of RNG (or an Adventure Mode that doesn't allow for backtracking). Still pissed that they couldn't bother with the very simple implementation of a damn boss mode, though.

Also, the quality of the platforming is subjective. I wouldn't say that the stages in Subspace were without their flaws, but personally, I loved them. And if nothing else, the general quality of the stages could've been able to improve with time (and more so with Smash's increased emphasis on Stamina Mode), but instead, they just opted to axe them entirely.

 

[chocolatejr9]

(I find it weird that Square-Enix is maintaining such an iron-fisted grip on the rights for Geno even though they seemingly can't use the character and Nintendo would presumably have no problem with bringing him back for spin-offs, while they seemingly let the artists and composers have full control over the original art and music for their flagship games, if Final Fantasy's pre-Sephiroth Smash presence and the Dragon Quest composer needing to specifically be credited are any indication)

I wonder if anybody from Nintendo or Square Enix will ever explain that...

 

[osby]

I wonder if anybody from Nintendo or Square Enix will ever explain that...

I don't think there needs to be a big explanation.

It's quite possible that Nintendo just never saw any need for buying him from SE considering they also hardly ever use him.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I don't think there needs to be a big explanation.

It's quite possible that Nintendo just never saw any need for buying him from SE considering they also hardly ever use him.

Now that you mention it, I DID see a rumor that SE once tried to sell Nintendo the rights, but got turned down. This was from the Geno thread, though, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[osby]

Now that you mention it, I DID see a rumor that SE once tried to sell Nintendo the rights, but got turned down. This was from the Geno thread, though, so take it with a grain of salt.

I take anything from that thread with a truckload of salt.

Really though, I can't imagine Geno's IP being so valuable that SE would actively try to make a profit from it. SMRPG as a whole maybe, but doesn't Nintendo already have some rights of it?

 

[Dinoman96]

I think it's possible that by the time Square-Enix made those Mario spinoffs, most of the staff that made Mario RPG had already left to other companies (like AlphaDream), and thus there's probably not a whole lot of reverence left for it there.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

I really enjoy Smash's gameplay and I think Ultimate is the perfect speed for me in a platform fighter. Other games like NASB and Melee feel too fast for me and feels too competitive, if that makes any sense. I wouldn't mind small tweaks here and there but I wouldn't want any big changes. Looking at other peoples suggestions on how to spice it up leaves a weird taste in my mouth that makes me wish Smash would stay similar to Ultimate. I do want a Project X Zone style RPG but with characters from Smash but it's mostly because RPGs are my favorite genre of games and I wouldn't want it to replace Smash at all.

To be fair, PXZ2 has five characters in it who are also playable in Ultimate: and several NPCs in Ult appear as well like Fiora, Zero, Tiki, Akira Yuki… also worth noting is that almost appeared in 2, needless to say Kamiya now regrets saying no to letting her in

man. We really need PXZ3.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Who do you guys want as far as CyGames reps go? Of course, I'm still in on Euden coming to Smash eventually.

I’m still a bit surprised DL didn’t even get so much as a spirit event or Mii

 

[Dinoman96]

Euden ain't ever getting into Smash unless Nintendo ports Dragalia Lost to Switch and gives it a proper worldwide release. From my understanding, the game seems to be winding down anyways.

 

[Perkilator]

Today is a good day for Sonic fans and smash fans this video has been uploaded just now it looks really smooth and beautiful

Saw the trailer. The end makes me wish Sora was CP5 and the last fighter was Dr. Eggman.

Euden ain't ever getting into Smash unless Nintendo ports Dragalia Lost to Switch and gives it a proper worldwide release. From my understanding, the game seems to be winding down anyways.

Not even as a Spirit or Mii? Cause we still got songs from FEH in Ultimate (for as piddling as it is for mobile representation).

 

[DarthEnderX]

I found it especially off that Geno couldn't even appear in Mario Hoops 3-on-3 and such.

Or Fortune Street, which even has Super Mario RPG music in it!

 

[chocolatejr9]

Or Fortune Street, which even has Super Mario RPG music in it!

They'd rather have the music than the characters? Interesting...

 

[Wonder Smash]

Or Fortune Street, which even has Super Mario RPG music in it!

lol At first, I thought that you said Fortnite Street.

 

[Sucumbio]

So 3rd Party companies having issues Activision Blizzard, Ubisoft, Riot, Bungie

 

[Rie Sonomura]

So 3rd Party companies having issues Activision Blizzard, Ubisoft, Riot, Bungie

What happened with Bungie? They the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. people? Cuz I know there was a controversy with a new game in that series about using NFTs but they later rescinded the decision after complaints

 

[Sucumbio]

What happened with Bungie? They the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. people? Cuz I know there was a controversy with a new game in that series about using NFTs but they later rescinded the decision after complaints

It goes back a ways Destiny 2 user made a Twitter thing...

Sorry for the odd post It sent before making my point then I got a phone call and forgotten haha what I was saying tho so like these companies and prolly more all had/have these work culture issues and scandal and people honestly are starting to boycott their products in some cases....

what does this mean for the future of 3rd party rep? Will the pool of potential picks dwindle to a handful owned by an increasingly smaller pool of companies? True some 3rds happens on a spur of the moment and comes in late DLC kinda thing but some are base Roster so that negotiating is part of the dev process itself...

 

[Will]

It goes back a ways Destiny 2 user made a Twitter thing...

Sorry for the odd post It sent before making my point then I got a phone call and forgotten haha what I was saying tho so like these companies and prolly more all had/have these work culture issues and scandal and people honestly are starting to boycott their products in some cases....

what does this mean for the future of 3rd party rep? Will the pool of potential picks dwindle to a handful owned by an increasingly smaller pool of companies? True some 3rds happens on a spur of the moment and comes in late DLC kinda thing but some are base Roster so that negotiating is part of the dev process itself...

The companies you listed were specifically western companies, and not ones with character representation already. Aside from Ubisoft, I'm not really sure if the other two had any plans for Smash. Bethesda is still going strong with DOOM and also Elder Scrolls. Toby Fox whooped Sakurai's ass in Smash. There's a trove of other companies and gamemakers out here with tons of potential. And we haven't even touched the surface on some other Eastern developers.

We all know damn well Activision-Blizzard ain't gonna get Tracer in after their past three years of political and human rights violations. Nintendo went from hyping up their port of Overwatch to not even saying a word of it releasing once the Blitzchung controversy dropped.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

On the flip side, Nintendo released two games in the League of Legends universe on Switch this month. Riot’s also on fire with their Netflix Arcane series

course, they’re still under investigation, just that we haven’t heard much about it

 

[Perkilator]

We all know damn well Activision-Blizzard ain't gonna get Tracer in after their past three years of political and human rights violations. Nintendo went from hyping up their port of Overwatch to not even saying a word of it releasing once the Blitzchung controversy dropped.

I'll say this as many times as I must: I wouldn't feel so bad about wanting Crash in Smash (still do, btw) if he weren't owned by AB. THQ's the company I wish he, Spyro and Tony Hawk were owned by but that's besides the point.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even if new companies wouldn't be acquired, I think the companies already on board with Smash will just add more of their own. Capcom, Namco, Sega and Square especially.

 

[Sucumbio]

The companies you listed were specifically western companies, and not ones with character representation already.

Yep didn't wanna cloud responses with thoughts of companies already in Smash or who do not have an issue with public relations (staff are leaving in droves from some of these companies).

Aside from Ubisoft, I'm not really sure if the other two had any plans for Smash. Bethesda is still going strong with DOOM and also Elder Scrolls. Toby Fox whooped Sakurai's ass in Smash. There's a trove of other companies and gamemakers out here with tons of potential. And we haven't even touched the surface on some other Eastern developers.

That's great news.

We all know damn well Activision-Blizzard ain't gonna get Tracer in after their past three years of political and human rights violations. Nintendo went from hyping up their port of Overwatch to not even saying a word of it releasing once the Blitzchung controversy dropped.

Right again!

So honestly this landscape seems to be pointing to 3rd party software companies who aren't huge yet but getting there.

Makes me think Nintendo and Steam should marry.

Edit

Riot’s also on fire with their Netflix Arcane series

I loved that Series........ Does that make me a horrible person?

Edit for diddys

Even if new companies wouldn't be acquired, I think the companies already on board with Smash will just add more of their own. Capcom, Namco, Sega and Square especially.

Ehhh yeah I guess but maybe just dip a bit into the A tier dev companies (or buy them).

 

[chocolatejr9]

Makes me think Nintendo and Steam should marry.

"Nintendo, do you take this PC as your beloved wife?"

 

[HyperSomari64]

Even if new companies wouldn't be acquired, I think the companies already on board with Smash will just add more of their own. Capcom, Namco, Sega and Square especially.

Bet if Bandai Namco buys Takara Tomy.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Bet if Bandai Namco buys Takara Tomy.

Wait, what have Takara Tomy made again?

 

[HyperSomari64]

Wait, what have Takara Tomy made again?

That's just a fictional scenario.

 

[Yamat08]

Wait, what have Takara Tomy made again?

They're a toy company. I know they make Beyblade, and I think they've made licensed toys based on Pokemon and such. Don't think they've made anything in terms of video game IPs, though.

 

[SPEN18]

Wait, what have Takara Tomy made again?

The Transformers, in cooperation with Hasbro.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Let's be honest, many of the companies with controversies right now had very little interest in Nintendo to begin with.

Outside of occasional ports, the only one with any investment was Ubisoft, and that controversy is more about an individual as far as I'm aware.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Let's be honest, many of the companies with controversies right now had very little interest in Nintendo to begin with.

Outside of occasional ports, the only one with any investment was Ubisoft, and that controversy is more about an individual as far as I'm aware.

Actually, it was recently reported that a lot of people were leaving all of a sudden, and it was implied to be somehow related to the company itself...

 

[Chuderz]

Saw the IGN interview now. Sakurai really keeps highlighting the shortcomings of the budget, even making it a point in the Sora presentation. I've been thinking lately that it's his passive-aggressive way of nudging Nintendo into the direction of a bigger budget. Give Smash the biggest budget ever Nintendo. The series has earned it.

I really appreciate how much more Sakurai has opened up to the public with this game. He and Iwata created the platform fighter and that subgenre of game is truly special. Smash may not be the best selling game ever but it's definitely the most special game ever. I personally would have loved for Iwata to have the opportunity to make his own entry into Smash in an alternate timeline where he wasn't weighted down by his responsibilities as CEO.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Smash indeed is a great game, with a huge legacy, and Sakurai really should be given the budget he needs. Especially if they want to top Ultimate.

It's very likely that in case of anything but a Smash Ultimate Deluxe, everyone is not simply gonna be there. It likely took a huge toll to get characters as Snake aboard, Sora's inclusion is said to be a miracle. Steve and Banjo where also dream additions that where hugely requested, but never really expected. If they can't manage them all getting back, I do think Sakurai will try to add them again through DLC. Ideally, if worst comes to worst and cuts have to be made to clone and "irrelevant" characters, or otherwise hard to program characters as Ice Climbers, Pokémon Trainer maybe even the Aegis girls, I'd imagine he'd do the same. Seems like a solid DLC campaign already.

As long as the newcomers will be highly demanded and highly regarded by the public, it will probably work out for the best.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Saw the IGN interview now. Sakurai really keeps highlighting the shortcomings of the budget, even making it a point in the Sora presentation. I've been thinking lately that it's his passive-aggressive way of nudging Nintendo into the direction of a bigger budget. Give Smash the biggest budget ever Nintendo. The series has earned it.

Nintendo has to fund other games and projects too, you know. I don't want Smash to be the only thing they fund just to make it more likely the roster never gets anything cut.