Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Chuderz]

Smash indeed is a great game, with a huge legacy, and Sakurai really should be given the budget he needs. Especially if they want to top Ultimate.

It's very likely that in case of anything but a Smash Ultimate Deluxe, everyone is not simply gonna be there. It likely took a huge toll to get characters as Snake aboard, Sora's inclusion is said to be a miracle. Steve and Banjo where also dream additions that where hugely requested, but never really expected. If they can't manage them all getting back, I do think Sakurai will try to add them again through DLC. Ideally, if worst comes to worst and cuts have to be made to clone and "irrelevant" characters, or otherwise hard to program characters as Ice Climbers, Pokémon Trainer maybe even the Aegis girls, I'd imagine he'd do the same. Seems like a solid DLC campaign already.

As long as the newcomers will be highly demanded and highly regarded by the public, it will probably work out for the best.

Yeah I've accepted this now. I'll still advocate for an Ultimate DX until it's finally over but while a part of me wishes Sakurai didn't say anything it's ultimately probably for the best that he gives me all this time to get used to the idea.

I just feel like my favorites are on the chopping block. I tend to love the third-party characters. Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora and Banjo...

Nintendo has to fund other games and projects too, you know. I don't want Smash to be the only thing they fund just to make it more likely the roster never gets anything cut.

I think that's a silly extreme that my sentiment isn't exactly advocating for. Ultimate proven the cultural relevancy of the series currently and has permanently established its legacy. I think the overall scope of the budget should reflect that. If nothing else I would prefer the increase to the budget to basically cover legal cost of keeping Everyone is Here intact and promotional trailers while leaving the "standard" amount for the actual development. I don't know though I'm just riffing.

 

[Guynamednelson]

think that's a silly extreme that my sentiment isn't exactly advocating for. Ultimate proven the cultural relevancy of the series currently and has permanently established its legacy. I think the overall scope of the budget should reflect that. If nothing else I would prefer the increase to the budget to basically cover legal cost of keeping Everyone is Here intact and promotional trailers while leaving the "standard" amount for the actual development. I don't know though I'm just riffing.

"Give Smash the biggest budget ever Nintendo" would require them to invest at least half of the $900 million they're currently spending to fund new games, due to the budgets of Red Dead Redemption 2 and Star Citizen. I don't want Nintendo to solely fund an Ultimate DX with that, I want to see them finally bring back some of their dead franchises from the grave, and maybe a real Mario Kart sequel, no mobile game, no RC car thing.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah I've accepted this now. I'll still advocate for an Ultimate DX until it's finally over but while a part of me wishes Sakurai didn't say anything it's ultimately probably for the best that he gives me all this time to get used to the idea.

I just feel like my favorites are on the chopping block. I tend to love the third-party characters. Cloud, Sephiroth, Sora and Banjo...

I think that's a silly extreme that my sentiment isn't exactly advocating for. Ultimate proven the cultural relevancy of the series currently and has permanently established its legacy. I think the overall scope of the budget should reflect that. If nothing else I would prefer the increase to the budget to basically cover legal cost of keeping Everyone is Here intact and promotional trailers while leaving the "standard" amount for the actual development. I don't know though I'm just riffing.

I think Cloud and Sephiroth, and therefore also Hero, are relatively safe to return. It was a hassle, but with the amount of content Square gave Nintendo, it's hard to picture them being out. I would advice you indeed to not expect Sora to be back immediately, or at all. Seems he was the biggest miracle in Smash so far.

Banjo seems quite a sure bet to return to me actually. They're bringing Banjo-Kazooie to the N64 app for Switch after all. Seems that Nintendo and Microsoft are on good terms regarding this.

I still advocate for a Smash Ultimate Deluxe too actually, but am looking at the situation from all sorts of points of view. I can't let my personal wants influence my expectations. A higher budget would be extremely ideal, I do hope they at least use Ultimate as the main engine, which I think was already sort of recycled from Smash 4 Wii U. Just more people working on this game would speed up the process, am at the very least convinced that Namco will also keep working on Smash, due to the great amount of experience they now already have acclaimed with their assistance in two titles.

Kind of random, but I suspect that they'll try and add more characters home to other fighting games in the next Smash. It seemed to be a minor trend in Ultimate, and these characters seem like a natural fit.

 

[Will]

Smash indeed is a great game, with a huge legacy, and Sakurai really should be given the budget he needs. Especially if they want to top Ultimate.

If a better budget gives us anything I better see some Pixar level quality in these animated trailers

 

[Diddy Kong]

If a better budget gives us anything I better see some Pixar level quality in these animated trailers

Nintendo IS making a Mario movie, and there are hints thrown to expect a Donkey Kong movie next...

So you know, could be possible.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Fun memories.

 

[MasterCheef]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

 

[chocolatejr9]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

NO! NO! WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THAT LEAKER AGAIN!

 

[Will]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

It's almost 2022 you can't still be falling for this chick's 200th totally legit "leak" scheme​

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

Ah Veemo, here we go again

please let’s not give this person any more attention

 

[Perkilator]

Smash indeed is a great game, with a huge legacy, and Sakurai really should be given the budget he needs. Especially if they want to top Ultimate.

If a better budget gives us anything I better see some Pixar level quality in these animated trailers

You know, part of me wishes he was given such a budget to begin with, just so I can see how much more he could hypothetically do with it.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Ah poyo, here we go again

please let’s not give this person any more attention

HotGirl: exists

Rie:

Do I really have an unhealthy obsession with TerminalMontage?

No, no it's the comments that are wrong.

 

[Perkilator]

HotGirl: exists

Rie:
View attachment 340748
Do I really have an unhealthy obsession with TerminalMontage?

No, no it's the comments that are wrong.

Nah, you're doing God's work.

But more importantly, calling out HotGirl is always the right thing to do.

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

“Oh new leak? Sweet”

Realizes who it’s from.

“No…NOOOOOOOOOOOO”

 

[DarthEnderX]

Do I really have an unhealthy obsession with TerminalMontage?

No, no it's the comments that are wrong.

Love TerminalMontage. But the Christian Kirbo joke never really landed with me.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

For 89 $/€ this game better have new content honestly. A Smash Ultimate sequel / Deluxe will sell like hotcakes however. But 2022 seems a little early for this to happen to me. It could, of course still happen. But if it's more expensive than the basic game plus all DLC, it better bring something new to the table. 2022 would just be a little weird to me, seeing how burned out Sakurai was from directing Smash.

Edit: Alright, aside from the very very curious username of this "leaker" , what did they do wrong ? I totally missed out on all that....

 

[Geno Boost]

Is it normal to expect more than 24 newcomers in the next smash game?
In every smash game numbers of newcomers gets higher in every new game I would assume base game would have many echoes or clones or less complicated newcomers while the DLC would have the most complicated fighters

 

[Diddy Kong]

24 ? That's a big amount, don't expect everyone to return if that happens.

I'm also not afraid of seeing more Echoes, clones or semi clones, the latter being the most preferable. Semi clones could give us wonderful additions as Dixie Kong, Impa, Octolings.. these are highly requested characters for some while, which could be unique, but face it, they will probably borrow little stuff from Diddy, Sheik and Inklings regardless. Even Toad could borrow elements from both Mario and Peach. I think it's also reasonable that many Sonic characters as Tails and Knuckles would borrow certain elements from Sonic.

 

[Geno Boost]

24 ? That's a big amount, don't expect everyone to return if that happens.

I'm also not afraid of seeing more Echoes, clones or semi clones, the latter being the most preferable. Semi clones could give us wonderful additions as Dixie Kong, Impa, Octolings.. these are highly requested characters for some while, which could be unique, but face it, they will probably borrow little stuff from Diddy, Sheik and Inklings regardless. Even Toad could borrow elements from both Mario and Peach. I think it's also reasonable that many Sonic characters as Tails and Knuckles would borrow certain elements from Sonic.

Smash ultimate managed bringing in 24 newcomers and managed to bring back every veteran.
I don’t think it would be impossible to pull that off again including the 3rd parties unless if next smash game gets completely made from scratch however if someone gets cut probably the DLC would bring the cut character back to the roster.
I think smash ultimate has proved to us that way too much content can be brought to the game including every character and almost every stage with every version and have boss battles as well I don’t think scrapping all this work to start over would be a good idea.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Smash ultimate managed bringing in 24 newcomers and managed to bring back every veteran.
I don’t think it would be impossible to pull that off again including the 3rd parties unless if next smash game gets completely made from scratch however if someone gets cut probably the DLC would bring the cut character back to the roster.
I think smash ultimate has proved to us that way too much content can be brought to the game including every character and almost every stage with every version and have boss battles as well I don’t think scrapping all this work to start over would be a good idea.

It's only a coincidence that Ultimate eventually added the most newcomers. Notice the EVENTUALLY.

 

[Lyncario]

Nintendo leaker claims Smash Ultimate special edition coming in 2022 - Dexerto

A new Nintendo leak claims that a special edition of Super Smash Bros Ultimate is expected to release early in 2022.

www.dexerto.com

thoughts?

Didn't Sakurai recently said that this wasn't going to happen to begin with?

Also, the bad fake leaker is a bad fake leaker.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Fun memories.

Yeah, but still Multiversus is ahead of our journey to next chapter.

 

[Yamat08]

For 89 $/€ this game better have new content honestly. A Smash Ultimate sequel / Deluxe will sell like hotcakes however. But 2022 seems a little early for this to happen to me. It could, of course still happen. But if it's more expensive than the basic game plus all DLC, it better bring something new to the table. 2022 would just be a little weird to me, seeing how burned out Sakurai was from directing Smash.

Edit: Alright, aside from the very very curious username of this "leaker" , what did they do wrong ? I totally missed out on all that....

Putting aside the supposed notoriety of the leaker (I personally never heard of her before), if there was an all-DLC release, I'd think $90 would be pretty reasonable. It'd still be less than the price of Ultimate (at least at its initial retail price) plus both Fighter's Passes and Piranha Plant, though I'd hope they could also include all the Mii costumes as well (and maybe stop paywalling that Kingdom Hearts song behind a save file).

Incidentally, if such a release were to come about, I wonder if there'd be any additional changes, or if it'd literally just be Ultimate with the DLC installed. Should it be the latter, then I'd pity any new player who has to deal with ALL those damn splash screens upon start-up.

 

[Gengar84]

Alright, it's been a while since I posted the last character idea. Here is another from the same company. Again, I don't blame anyone that doesn't want any part of Blizzard in Smash at the moment but if they can either address their issues or their IP gets bought out by a more respectable company I would love to see one of their characters in the next game.

Illidan Stormrage

Art by Jeremy Sun

Why Warcraft?​

The only Blizzard character I ever see brought up is Tracer from Overwatch. While she may be the most likely, I feel the other options always get looked over. Warcraft has a pretty big legacy in the history of gaming. The Warcraft franchise has left a really big impact on gaming history. The original Real Time Strategy (RTS) games were very popular back in the 90's and directly influenced several other huge franchises such as League of Legends and Defense of the Ancients. Since then, the Warcraft franchise has gone on to become just as influential in the MMORPG world with World of Warcraft. This was one of the biggest PC games for quite a long time and revolutionized the MMORPG genre. The franchise has even had a massively successful digital trading card game in Hearthstone which again revolutionized these. Even though Magic the Gathering existed as a paper card game long before Hearthstone, Magic the Gathering: Arena draws direct inspiration from Hearthstone in many areas.

Why Illidan Stormrage?​

I chose Illidan mostly because I love his design but he also plays a huge part in the games. There are several other great options for characters like Arthas, Thrall, Sylvanis, and many more. Illidan has a really unique look that would stand out from the rest of the Smash cast and has tons of really great moveset options. Illidan is a demonic night elf and one of the major antagonists in World of Warcraft. While he has played the role of an antagonist at one point, Illidan is more of a misunderstood antihero. He always tries to do the right thing but uses questionable means to that end. As a bonus, he also uses a really unique weapon and isn't just another sword user.

Alternate outfits

What could Illidan’s moveset be?​

Spoiler

Gimmicks and Traits

Metamorphosis - Illidan has a powerup state similar to Sephiroth’s One Winged Angel mode and Joker’s Rebellion guage. In this mode, Illidan transforms into his demonic form and gains additional jumps. He also is engulfed in an aura called “immolation” which deals slight damage to anyone near him.

Betrayer’s Thirst - Illidan’s glaive and melee attacks drain 15% health of the damage dealt (he drained 30% in his games but I feel like that would be a bit overpowered in Smash so I cut it in half).

By default, Illidan is a fairly fast and lightweight fighter despite his size. While his weight in his normal form is relatively light, he has a bit of added survivability due to his Betrayer’s thirst. His demonic form adds more weight and helps him utilize the draining effect of his attacks.

Weak Attacks

Jab - Illidan performs two quick horizontal slashes followed by a spinning more powerful attack with his glaives. This represents Demon Hunter’s basic combo in WarCraft 3.

Forward Tilt - Illidan slashes his glaives forward in an X pattern.

Up Tilt - Illidan slashes upwards with his glaives similar to Cloud’s up smash.

Down Tilt - Illidan performs a low sweeping attack across the ground with his glaives.

Running Attack - Illidan leaps forward and stabs his glaives downward into the ground.

Smash Attacks

Forward Smash - Illidan throws his glaives forward and they spin in place similar to Pyra’s forward special

Down Smash - Illidan fires a beam of green energy from his eyes diagonally downward at the same angle as Sephiroth’s down smash.

Up Smash - Illidan creates a fire pillar directly in front of him around the same size as Palutena’s up smash.

Specials

Neutral special – Mana Burn – Illidan attacks with a green beam of energy from his hands at a medium range. This deals continuous damage similar to Bowser's flamethrower attack as long as Illidan holds the attack button. On top of dealing damage, it also gradually drains the gauges of any characters that use them like Cloud, Joker, and Steve.

Up Special – Flame– Illidan dives upwards and propels several fireballs diagonally downwards

Down special – Evasion – This is a lot like Lucario’s counter. Illidan evades an attack and teleports behind the opponent to strike them

Forward special – Sweeping strike – Illidan dashes forward and performs two quick slashes at the opponent.

Aerials

Neutral Air - Illidan fires a beam from his eyes diagonally downward. This is essentially Kazuya’s neutral aerial special while holding down.

Forward Air - Illidan creates a short range fiery explosion from his hand similar to Zelda’s up air but forwards.

Up Air - Illidan propels himself upwards in a motion similar to Kazuya’s up special but with less range and power.

Down Air - Illidan dives straight down head first at his opponent.

Grabs, Pummels, and Throws

Grab - Standard short range grab

Pummel - Illidan headbutts his opponent

Up Throw - Illidan flies upwards with his opponent and slams them into the ground similar to Charizard’s up throw.

Down Throw - Illidan slams his opponent’s head into the ground.

Forward Throw - Illidan performs a forward thrust kick similar to Ganondorf’s and Kazuya’s forward tilt.

Back Throw - Illidan tosses his opponent backwards.

Final Smash

Parasitic Shadowfiends - Illidan strikes his opponent and transitions to a cinematic cutscene where he summons an army of shadowy figures that deal massive damage to anyone caught in the attack as well as recovering some health for Illidan.

In Conclusion
​

I hope I've made a decent case for why I believe a Warcraft character deserves a spot in Smash, Illidan or otherwise. The two main problems I see are that Tracer is currently the most popular Blizzard request and the fact that Blizzard as a company has been very controversial in recent times. While Tracer may be more recent and currently popular, I don't think it is really fair to throw out any other Blizzard character from consideration. As for their controversial status, that is a bigger issue. I can't really defend their actions but that doesn't stop me from loving their worlds and characters. All I can say in defense is the speculation that the people creating the characters and games aren't the same as the top management that did these things, but I really don't know.

 

[Will]

The only Blizzard character I ever see brought up is Tracer from Overwatch. While she may be the most likely, I feel the other options always get looked over. Warcraft has a pretty big legacy in the history of gaming.

Nah, it's just because I'm biased for Maplestory and RuneScape as MMO reps.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Has anyone remember my concept of reboot for Smash Bros, where we came back to Nintendo Allstars?
Well, because I could want implement 3rd Parties.... ......but as free DLC.

 

[Trevenant]

Has anyone remember my concept of reboot for Smash Bros, where we came back to Nintendo Allstars?
Well, because I could want implement 3rd Parties.... ......but as free DLC.

I feel as though it's obvious how arbitrary this is to begin with as I've mentioned before, but, in some alternate reality, there just so happened to be even a slither of a chance that all third parties are cut like in this arbitrary and likely not fully evaluated idea, there isn't a chance they'd come back as DLC, and even less of one that they'd be free... That's such a remotely abstract concept, that you should just keep them paid lol...

 

[Guynamednelson]

that you should just keep them paid lol...

It'd happen in a timeline where all third-parties are solely DLC anyway. You gotta pay their owners to get them in the game, and how do you compensate for having to pay so many companies?

 

[Sucumbio]

Has anyone remember my concept of reboot for Smash Bros, where we came back to Nintendo Allstars?
Well, because I could want implement 3rd Parties.... ......but as free DLC.

Yes. I remember also how fan demand ie 6 or so of us lol got you to accept 3rd party characters in your All Star concept. As for How well I still believe some will be base roster but just for the sake of argument if they're Only available by DLC you can expect them to be for a price because as stated the cost in getting permission to use them comes right out of the profit they anticipate so to increase margin they pass it to consumers. Pretty standard.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Smash has gotten to the point that “Smash saved (event).” is a common trope. Smash saves Game Awards. Smash saved E3. Smash has yet to save TGS since they don’t typically showcase Smash there but if they did, people would be spamming that in chat.

Now, allow me ask the question, can FE Protag save those events? Can Waddle Dee save those events? Can Spring Man save it? Can Andross? Can a PokeRep? Can Urban Champion? My answer is no and it’s even debatable if characters like Isaac could. Waluigi is really the only one who can but still that’s one event.

3rd party characters typically brings the hype and sales. Banjo and Hero brought the hype. Sephiroth and Kazuya brought the hype. Had Sora been showcased at TGAS, he would have ad well. Each one of these “Saved (event).”

I can understand wanting first party’s to reign supreme and I agree that we should focus on those as they are truly the most deserving and realizable but Smash opened Pandora’s Box with third party and we went from just having Snake and Sonic to having them as well as Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon, Richter, Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry, Steve, Sephiroth, Kazuya, and Sora. I feel bad for the first party purists in the community but this is no longer that Smash Bros. 3rd party are the most marketable, profitable, and hype-able additions of the roster. First party is a constantly shrinking barrel where unlike Melee added “must haves”, Brawl added “secondary must haves”, 4 added “these characters are interesting/fun to at as”, and Ultimate added “pipe dreams and 4chan lists”, Smash 6 has less to work with. “Characters that are loved by speculation but are third tier in actuality and missed multiple chances”. The team will really have to do a mixture of Brawl and 4 to get the right touch. On the other hand, 3rd party is such a a vast possible cast to choose from; especially when characters like Joker, Banjo, Steve, Seph, Kazuya, and Sora broke some many barriers that were created by “fan rules”. Tekken is ineligible cause Heihachi costume.A company can’t have multiple characters per pass/in both passes. Nintendo only rule. No 3rd party rule. Etc

3rd party is the future of Smash which is great news to some and horrible news to others. If they have yet to jump ship yet, they will eventually.[/event][/event]

 

[SPEN18]

Smash has gotten to the point that “Smash saved (event).” is a common trope. Smash saves Game Awards. Smash saved E3. Smash has yet to save TGS since they don’t typically showcase Smash there but if they did, people would be spamming that in chat.

Now, allow me ask the question, can FE Protag save those events? Can Waddle Dee save those events? Can Spring Man save it? Can Andross? Can a PokeRep? Can Urban Champion? My answer is no and it’s even debatable if characters like Isaac could. Waluigi is really the only one who can but still that’s one event.

3rd party characters typically brings the hype and sales. Banjo and Hero brought the hype. Sephiroth and Kazuya brought the hype. Had Sora been showcased at TGAS, he would have ad well. Each one of these “Saved (event).”

I mean, just "winning" reveal events doesn't mean much of anything in the long run. And besides, if Nintendo has to rely on actual new software reveals rather than just character reveals for Smash in order to get good responses in these events, then maybe that's even for the better. Not that the continuing stream of new Nintendo games and the potential reinvigoration of older legacy characters isn't enough to prevent the barrel from ever emptying anyway.

What's more important is creating a well-designed game with unique selling points. Characters, including third party crossovers, can indeed be USPs but there are plenty more possibilities than that. If they put their eggs in the right baskets, the game could sell equally well with far fewer third parties I think, especially since most people understand that the third parties can come with significant cost and are wrapped in negotiation issues. The people that will refuse to purchase based on a third party roster reduction are extremely few in number, especially if there are other features and newcomers baked into the game, and even more so if a few of the biggest third parties like Sonic, Mega Man are still included. I think if a lot of DLC third parties in particular end up cut, then people will realize again that these were guest characters added to the game only under special circumstances of company relations, timing, and finances.

can FE Protag save those events?

Clearly, Nintendo thinks that they can.

Melee added “must haves”, Brawl added “secondary must haves”, 4 added “these characters are interesting/fun to at as”, and Ultimate added “pipe dreams and 4chan lists”, Smash 6 has less to work with. “Characters that are loved by speculation but are third tier in actuality and missed multiple chances”.

That sounds like a massive oversimplification. Like, how does Ice Climbers over characters like Dedede, Wario, or Diddy Kong in Melee make any sense under that framework? Or niche inclusions like Lucas, Pit, or Wolf in Brawl? Snake over Mega Man? Incineroar the biggest pipe dream ever?

 

[Among Waddle Dees]

Smash has gotten to the point that “Smash saved (event).” is a common trope. Smash saves Game Awards. Smash saved E3. Smash has yet to save TGS since they don’t typically showcase Smash there but if they did, people would be spamming that in chat.

Now, allow me ask the question, can FE Protag save those events? Can Waddle Dee save those events? Can Spring Man save it? Can Andross? Can a PokeRep? Can Urban Champion? My answer is no and it’s even debatable if characters like Isaac could. Waluigi is really the only one who can but still that’s one event.

3rd party characters typically brings the hype and sales. Banjo and Hero brought the hype. Sephiroth and Kazuya brought the hype. Had Sora been showcased at TGAS, he would have ad well. Each one of these “Saved (event).”

I can understand wanting first party’s to reign supreme and I agree that we should focus on those as they are truly the most deserving and realizable but Smash opened Pandora’s Box with third party and we went from just having Snake and Sonic to having them as well as Mega Man, Pac-Man, Ryu, Ken, Cloud, Bayonetta, Simon, Richter, Joker, Hero, Banjo, Terry, Steve, Sephiroth, Kazuya, and Sora. I feel bad for the first party purists in the community but this is no longer that Smash Bros. 3rd party are the most marketable, profitable, and hype-able additions of the roster. First party is a constantly shrinking barrel where unlike Melee added “must haves”, Brawl added “secondary must haves”, 4 added “these characters are interesting/fun to at as”, and Ultimate added “pipe dreams and 4chan lists”, Smash 6 has less to work with. “Characters that are loved by speculation but are third tier in actuality and missed multiple chances”. The team will really have to do a mixture of Brawl and 4 to get the right touch. On the other hand, 3rd party is such a a vast possible cast to choose from; especially when characters like Joker, Banjo, Steve, Seph, Kazuya, and Sora broke some many barriers that were created by “fan rules”. Tekken is ineligible cause Heihachi costume.A company can’t have multiple characters per pass/in both passes. Nintendo only rule. No 3rd party rule. Etc

3rd party is the future of Smash which is great news to some and horrible news to others. If they have yet to jump ship yet, they will eventually.[/event][/event]

...this reads like a pity cry for first-parties. I don't like its implications.

Yes, as much as some would openly admit against, the guests have a good chance of staying. I can certainly accept this. But why are you assuming this way less tame scenario where Smash's hype crossover gimmick becomes the permanent standard? Just because Ultimate did it doesn't mean they will do it again. This is technically the fallacy that drove the majority of Brawl and 4's assumptions of roster picks, only in the opposite direction. As well as the third-party only assumption of Pass 1 that crashed and burned with Byleth.

Is this actually what's expected from speculation, or is this all just a big assumption based on mass popularity? I genuinely hope I'm not sensing something here, but... aren't we allowed to foster possibilities as they are? All I'm seeing is a number of shutdowns based on pure probability that, for the record, may not even carry over. This isn't the first time I've seen this, either.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I mean, just "winning" reveal events doesn't mean much of anything in the long run. And besides, if Nintendo has to rely on actual new software reveals rather than just character reveals for Smash in order to get good responses in these events, then maybe that's even for the better. Not that the continuing stream of new Nintendo games and the potential reinvigoration of older legacy characters isn't enough to prevent the barrel from ever emptying anyway.

What's more important is creating a well-designed game with unique selling points. Characters, including third party crossovers, can indeed be USPs but there are plenty more possibilities than that. If they put their eggs in the right baskets, the game could sell equally well with far fewer third parties I think, especially since most people understand that the third parties can come with significant cost and are wrapped in negotiation issues. The people that will refuse to purchase based on a third party roster reduction are extremely few in number, especially if there are other features and newcomers baked into the game, and even more so if a few of the biggest third parties like Sonic, Mega Man are still included. I think if a lot of DLC third parties in particular end up cut, then people will realize again that these were guest characters added to the game only under special circumstances of company relations, timing, and finances.



Clearly, Nintendo thinks that they can.



That sounds like a massive oversimplification. Like, how does Ice Climbers over characters like Dedede, Wario, or Diddy Kong in Melee make any sense under that framework? Or niche inclusions like Lucas, Pit, or Wolf in Brawl? Snake over Mega Man? Incineroar the biggest pipe dream ever?

I mean, Sakurai added IC because he wanted to add a rep for those one-off NES games. That's gotta count for something, right?

Either way, there are now people who want a Kid Icarus Uprising-esque revival for Ice Climber thanks to Smash. I would know because I'm one of them...

 

[Wonder Smash]

I personally prefer Ice Climber to remain an NES game. Same with Duck Hunt.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

I could want to see Mach Rider reboot in style of Fallout-like game, but you ride on motorcycle in open-world World resembling our world, but it's post-apocalyptic like in Fallout, Kirby and Forgotten Land along with Adventure Time (Pay attention to Ruined Cities from Adventure Time cartoon).

 

[Dinoman96]

Melee's lineup really is weird, when you think about it. Especially when you discount the clones (who were added in at the tail-end of development as bonuses) and look at the actual unique newcomer lineup.



You do have some obvious no-brainers like Bowser, Peach, Zelda and Mewtwo, but as much as I like them, it's just kinda weird to think that the likes of Sheik, Ice Climbers and Mr. Game & Watch were prioritised over notable omissions like Diddy Kong, Wario, and Dedede. Marth too, especially when you consider that he was just gonna be expunged from the non-JP versions of Melee anyways.

 

[HyperSomari64]

Either way, there are now people who want a Kid Icarus Uprising-esque revival for Ice Climber thanks to Smash. I would know because I'm one of them...

Just Super Mario 64 but with a Hammer and a worse jump.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Well, yeah I always thought Melee's roster was quite lacking, even when I was younger. An obvious missing character lead to me picking my username, yeah am around that long... He's also my favorite character ever, and I was about 13-14, so. Anyway, I do think that Diddy, Wario and Dedede would've been better picks than Ice Climbers, Game & Watch and Sheik. They'd even be better picks than Zelda and Peach I'd say.

However, all had reasons for their exclusion in some way. Diddy was probably in a weird spot with the Rare buyout, it's especially weird how Dixie and K.Rool show up as trophies, and Diddy doesn't. The exact second Event Match in Melee had you fight a big DK in his regular colors, and a smaller red costume DK. I believe Diddy was planned, but dropped. Since his Brawl reveal was a huge day for me (I literally screamed when I saw the Dojo update, it was a midweek day around 7AM) I remember the update saying that it was sort of a late entry for Diddy to be included in Brawl.

Wario I read was sort of planned to be similar to Mario, but they opted for Dr.Mario cause they where aiming for more easy to make clones. Wario was also in a weird spot you could say, they didn't want to make him a clone, and didn't have the resources or time to make him unique. Probably why he was one of the first characters to be revealed in Brawl.

King Dedede was deliberately skipped over, Sakurai didn't want to oversaturate the amount of Kirby characters. I read something about the likes that they would either opt for doing clone characters, or Dedede, and to buff the roster size they choose to add the clones.

The most logical picks for Melee to me where always Bowser, Mewtwo and Marth, even if Marth only made sense retrospectively. Didn't understand why he was picked when I was younger obviously. We all didn't...

 

[Sucumbio]

Snake was an Easter egg laid by an ostrich.

I have no idea how Sonic was even thought of lol. It did actually kinda tick me off cause my initial reaction was wait Sonic isn't Nintendo..

(Neither is snake think)

Oh dang...

3rd parties are definitely here to stay but I'm in the consumer group Buy Anything Smash Related

 

[HyperSomari64]

Marth too, especially when you consider that he was just gonna be expunged from the non-JP versions of Melee anyways.

Back in the pre-E3 2018 (Smash Switch) era, i had an idea that was replacing both FE characters with Mike Jones from Startropics (with Marth's moveset but with his baseball bat) and a original character that was like the one that connects all of the gaming world that was jsut a reskin of Roy.