Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Swamp Sensei]

Nobody seems to have mentioned the lack of a new Pokémon Mystery Dungeon yet. When's that coming?

I think the remake means it isn't dormant in most people's eyes

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean if they reuse bosses exactly as they were they could add new ones!

Sure. But I'd rather any new Bosses they add to come from new series, not be additional Bosses from series that already have one.

A new pokemon Stadium CAN be simply for the purpose to make all of the dropped features relevant again.

You know what else can do that? Putting those features in the main games.

There's no technical reason they can't. And all making a new Stadium does is force you to buy two games in order to get the gameplay features that you should be able to get with one.

The main games already have a problem with not having enough to do. Putting that stuff in a separate game would only exacerbate that problem.

I doubt a Home update would give the battles the same cinematic treatment and spectacle as something like Battle Revolution did, which really added to the enjoyment of those games.

Same issue. Battles were more cinematic spectacles in the Stadium games because they were on stronger systems than the core Pokemon games.

Now that the core games are ON the strongest Nintendo console, there's zero reason to not just...do that in the main games.

Like seriously, if you spend all the development resources to make better looking battles...why wouldn't you just put them in the main game? Take all the time, money, manpower that you would have spent making an entirely new game...and spend them making the core games less disappointing.

 

[Gengar84]

Sure. But I'd rather any new Bosses they add to come from new series, not be additional Bosses from series that already have one.

You know what else can do that? Putting those features in the main games.

There's no technical reason they can't. And all making a new Stadium does is force you to buy two games in order to get the gameplay features that you should be able to get with one.

The main games already have a problem with not having enough to do. Putting that stuff in a separate game would only exacerbate that problem.

Same issue. Battles were more cinematic spectacles in the Stadium games because they were on stronger systems than the core Pokemon games.

Now that the core games are ON the strongest Nintendo console, there's zero reason to not just...do that in the main games.

Like seriously, if you spend all the development resources to make better looking battles...why wouldn't you just put them in the main game? Take all the time, money, manpower that you would have spent making an entirely new game...and spend them making the core games less disappointing.

There are two main problems here. First, GameFreak has made it clear that we’re probably never going to get another mainline game with the full roster of Pokemon again. Second, Pokemon Home requires a subscription fee. If we just want to play locally with our friends like we did with the Stadium games, I wouldn’t want to have to pay every month in order to do that. I’d much rather just buy a new Stadium game every console generation or so that could be updated as new mainline games come out.

I agree that ideally we’d just have all this in the mainline games but having a separate Stadium game allows a different developer to work on it while GameFreak handles the mainline games. Right now it seems like they’re struggling just to give us the minimal content the modern games give us. Having a second developer would help quite a bit. As long as we knew we’d have a Stadium game to play with all our past favorites, I’d be fine with an even smaller roster in the mainline games.

 

[Garteam]

First, GameFreak has made it clear that we’re probably never going to get another mainline game with the full roster of Pokemon again.

Game Freak also said they'd reuse the 3D models created by Creatures Inc. for all future entries to future-proof the franchise, so things aren't as set in stone as they seem.

Honestly, having the mainline games get more experimental and having a new Pokemon Stadium that is basically an official version of Pokemon Showdown's national dex league would solve a lot of the bad will that the series got due to Dexit. Cutting Pokemon was always going to go over poorly, but Sword/Shield looking so derivative of previous entries in terms of gameplay and, let's be honest, ugly in terms of graphics really didn't help. People are a lot more willing to accept some limitations on roster size in a game that is more experimental like Legends: Arceus or Scarlet/Violet. Likewise, having an outside team that is devoted solely to figuring out and implementing how battling will work for a single generation would likely result in better balance, allow Game Freak to focus their resources on an overworld and catching mechanics that are more fully realized, and would take the sting out of finding out your favourite didn't make the cut.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Game Freak also said they'd reuse the 3D models created by Creatures Inc. for all future entries to future-proof the franchise, so things aren't as set in stone as they seem.

I think the models PLA and SV use are the models from XY-SM tweaked so every mon has 3D eyes and mouths among other things.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think the models PLA and SV use are the models from XY-SM tweaked so every mon has 3D eyes and mouths among other things.

Actually a lot of them have brand new models.

There's some considerable work being done to improve aesthetics.

 

[Gengar84]

Actually a lot of them have brand new models.

There's some considerable work being done to improve aesthetics.

Yeah, at first I thought they were the same models with new textures but the more I look at them, the more I notice that many are a big improvement over previous games. Hopefully they eventually reach the point that they look as good as Lucario and Incineroar do in Smash but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

The overworld is still pretty ugly though. I think it’s better than Legends Arceus but still not great. I’d love to see Monolith Soft help with the overworld in future games. Just imagining a Pokemon with the graphics and exploration of Xenoblade or Breath of the Wild is pretty exciting. I don’t expect that to happen but it would be great.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I’d love to see Monolith Soft help with the overworld in future games.

They already do. Or at least they did with PLA.

 

[DarthEnderX]

There are two main problems here. First, GameFreak has made it clear that we’re probably never going to get another mainline game with the full roster of Pokemon again.

But a Stadium game would have the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. If they can't maintain assets for all 1000+ Pokemon in the mainline games, they couldn't do it for a Stadium game either. Because, again, if they made those assets for the Stadium game, why wouldn't they just reuse those same assets for the mainline games?

I agree that ideally we’d just have all this in the mainline games but having a separate Stadium game allows a different developer to work on it while GameFreak handles the mainline games. Right now it seems like they’re struggling just to give us the minimal content the modern games give us. Having a second developer would help quite a bit.

Why not just use that second developer to assist with the mainline game?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Do you guys remember when Ike, Lucario and Toon Link were all considered inevitable cuts?

Man, things have changed, haven't they?

 

[Gengar84]

But a Stadium game would have the EXACT SAME PROBLEM. If they can't maintain assets for all 1000+ Pokemon in the mainline games, they couldn't do it for a Stadium game either. Because, again, if they made those assets for the Stadium game, why wouldn't they just reuse those same assets for the mainline games?

I think they probably could fit all the Pokémon in the current games if they really wanted to and had more dev time. The problem is that GameFreak is usually on a tight deadline and doesn’t seem particularly skilled as a developer. If another developer focused solely on battling without the need to build a whole overworld to explore, that would free up GameFreak to focus more on making the exploration and world better. They also wouldn’t have to devote as many resources to bringing so many older Pokemon back if we could just use them in Stadium.

Sure, my dream Pokemon game would be a mainline game with all the Pokemon, a huge explorable world with great graphics, and a ton of fun things to do post game like the Battle Resort. A huge immersive world would also eliminate the need for another Pokemon Snap if they could program the Pokemon to behave as believable in the mainline games as they do in Snap. Sadly, I’ve learned starting Gen 7 that that dream is probably never going to happen.

The next best thing is to split up the content between a mainline and a Stadium so different teams can focus on what they specialize in. I’ll take one game with an amazing overworld and a second with amazing battles over what we have now which is a single game that is mediocre at both.

 

[Gorgonzales]

Do you guys remember when Ike, Lucario and Toon Link were all considered inevitable cuts?

Man, things have changed, haven't they?

It is funny to think about but at this point I'd probably rather have Toon Link use unique stuff like the Deku Leaf and Skull Hammer and Lucario have a mechanic that lets him play the game for more the 50% of the match

If they were cut at any point in their current state I wouldn't really mind, because as it stands they're kind of "nothing" characters to me

 

[RileyXY1]

Do you guys remember when Ike, Lucario and Toon Link were all considered inevitable cuts?

Man, things have changed, haven't they?

Although in Lucario's case, it was only because of the false theory that he "replaced" Mewtwo, and was mostly before XY greatly increased its relevancy by giving one to a prominent character in the game and being the player's first exposure to the new mechanic of the game, Mega Evolution. And Toon Link was shown in the first trailer as a background cameo on the Spirit Tracks stage, which made a lot of people think that he was cut, before he was eventually confirmed anyways.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I think they probably could fit all the Pokémon in the current games if they really wanted to and had more dev time.

If they just reused everyone from Sw/Sh, S/V should have been able to do it easily. Especially post DLC.

The problem is that GameFreak is usually on a tight deadline and doesn’t seem particularly skilled as a developer. If another developer focused solely on battling without the need to build a whole overworld to explore, that would free up GameFreak to focus more on making the exploration and world better.

Then have the 2nd studio work on that aspect of the game.

Games have had one company make the single player while another makes the multiplayer before.

The next best thing is to split up the content between a mainline and a Stadium so different teams can focus on what they specialize in. I’ll take one game with an amazing overworld and a second with amazing battles over what we have now which is a single game that is mediocre at both.

You could have a single game that is amazing at both if you put both teams on the same game.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

Do you guys remember when Ike, Lucario and Toon Link were all considered inevitable cuts?

Man, things have changed, haven't they?

To be honest of all of those I could maybe (and that's like a very big maybe) see Toon Link getting cut if there's a lot of cuts in the next game.

 

[RileyXY1]

And as far as cuts go, we can't forget how the community was so convinced that Ness would be cut from Brawl based on a comment that the community misinterpreted.

 

[smashkirby]

Let's make a list for fun.

What once dormant IPs came back for the Switch?

Off the bat, I can think of F-Zero, Famicom Detective Club, Advance Wars and Trace Memory/Another Code. How many revivals have their been? Let's also include spinoffs like New Pokemon Snap.

Brain Age AND Big Brain Academy.

 

[Gengar84]

If they just reused everyone from Sw/Sh, S/V should have been able to do it easily. Especially post DLC.

Then have the 2nd studio work on that aspect of the game.

Games have had one company make the single player while another makes the multiplayer before.

You could have a single game that is amazing at both if you put both teams on the same game.

Like I said, I think your idea is preferable, I just don’t have a lot of faith that we’ll ever see a fully realized mainline game. We’ve had several spinoff games in the past so I’m just going on past precedent. If the mainline games can offer everything Stadium does along with a good enough world to approximate Snap, then that would be best. I’d rather not have to buy two games to play but I’d be willing to if that’s the only way we will get those features. I’d prefer a Stadium game to Home though since I don’t really like paying monthly fees for something I don’t use all the time (or anything really).

 

[DarthEnderX]

We’ve had several spinoff games in the past so I’m just going on past precedent. If the mainline games can offer everything Stadium does along with a good enough world to approximate Snap, then that would be best.

They should put Snap in the mainline games too! And Pokken! And Unite!

Pokemon should be an MMO with everything in it!

 

[Will]

They should put Snap in the mainline games too! And Pokken! And Unite!

Pokemon should be an MMO with everything in it!

Society if it took DarthEnderX’s sarcasm and made it a reality:

 

[Louie G.]

To be honest of all of those I could maybe (and that's like a very big maybe) see Toon Link getting cut if there's a lot of cuts in the next game.

I do think Toon Link will stick around, mostly since with BOTW Link around and presumably staying since he is still relevant there's more reason than ever to keep a separate version of Link with a more traditional angle. Young Link exists too, but Toon Link just covers more ground (the "Toon" games are kind of its own identity) and gets to be more distinctly stylized.

Toon Link and Sheik feel like they're sort of on the bubble outside of the more obvious fates, but I'm recognizing Zelda is bigger than ever lately and it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to cut that too short. Toon Link is that important younger version of Link that Sakurai likes to have around, Sheik is a staple and is a pretty valuable rushdown ninja archetype. If they can stand it, and if the cuts aren't rapturing like half the roster, they don't have to lose very much.

 

[Kirbeh]

Okay, well that's more clear. It's been a while since I played the Rayman games.

Though still, I'm not sure if they would be the symbol for the series. My personal idea is his hand when he does the peace sign...which, funny enough, still kinda looks like a Rabbid's head in silhouette.

I don't know, might have a problem with that. Jokes aside, I feel like a hand throwing the peace sign feels a bit too generic. It's not really something I associate with Rayman specifically you know? Plenty of characters use the peace sign and it's extremely common both as an emoji/real world use.

I'm also in favor of treating the Rabbids as their own thing. Sure they got their start with Rayman and technically share a universe (at least I think that's still the case?) But it spun off into it's own series ages ago. A silhouette of a Rabbid works great for the Rabbids series but it's ill fitting as a means of representing the whole Rayman franchise. They're emblematic of a particular era but otherwise completely absent from both the series origin/classic titles and the modern UbiArt games.

It's very nit picky but I kinda have the same problem with Mega Man and Persona tbh. The gear makes enough sense because machines/robots but I still feel it's too generic. Understanbly there aren't a lot of choices for reoccurring symbols or power ups so I get why they went with it. All I can think of are E Tanks or Dr. Wily's own symbol. Outside of those I still feel like Mega Man's helmet could have worked or maybe a Mettaur since they appear throughout the whole franchise not just Classic.

Persona is the opposite, I feel like it's too specific to 5. Yes that is the main game being represented and the Phantom Thieves logo is a great fit for a symbol of P5, but if it's supposed to be Persona as a whole then it just doesn't work. Again, it's very nit picky but we do technically have content from other Persona games and if the series content gets expanded on in the future then it's going to be even more of an oddity.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Society if it took DarthEnderX’s sarcasm and made it a reality:

I wasn't being sarcastic. They should make a Pokemon MMO.

 

[fogbadge]

I wasn't being sarcastic. They should make a Pokemon MMO.

I think Pokemon has enough games designed to con people out of money

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I don't know, might have a problem with that. Jokes aside, I feel like a hand throwing the peace sign feels a bit too generic. It's not really something I associate with Rayman specifically you know? Plenty of characters use the peace sign and it's extremely common both as an emoji/real world use.

I'm also in favor of treating the Rabbids as their own thing. Sure they got their start with Rayman and technically share a universe (at least I think that's still the case?) But it spun off into it's own series ages ago. A silhouette of a Rabbid works great for the Rabbids series but it's ill fitting as a means of representing the whole Rayman franchise. They're emblematic of a particular era but otherwise completely absent from both the series origin/classic titles and the modern UbiArt games.

It's very nit picky but I kinda have the same problem with Mega Man and Persona tbh. The gear makes enough sense because machines/robots but I still feel it's too generic. Understanbly there aren't a lot of choices for reoccurring symbols or power ups so I get why they went with it. All I can think of are E Tanks or Dr. Wily's own symbol. Outside of those I still feel like Mega Man's helmet could have worked or maybe a Mettaur since they appear throughout the whole franchise not just Classic.

Persona is the opposite, I feel like it's too specific to 5. Yes that is the main game being represented and the Phantom Thieves logo is a great fit for a symbol of P5, but if it's supposed to be Persona as a whole then it just doesn't work. Again, it's very nit picky but we do technically have content from other Persona games and if the series content gets expanded on in the future then it's going to be even more of an oddity.

Megaman's icon is weird to us because to my understanding gears are just part of the franchise's asthetic in japan so it makes more sense for them over there.

Personally i think it should have been the extra life icon of Megaman's smiling face.

 

[Geno Boost]

pokemon mmo?
all i could think of something that works similar to Pixelmon Minecraft mod

 

[BuckleyTim]

I think Pokemmo is slowly becoming redundant in that a lot of mmo-like features are getting put in pokemon proper. The obvious threshold they need to cross is having a bunch of random players on the overworld that you can see (kinda like Mario Wonder maybe), but I'm sure that'll be tackled when we jump to more powerful hardware in the next year or two.

Aside from that, we've got raids and uh... okay, maybe my argument falls apart on closer inspection, but I still stand by the notion that Pokemon has been so multiplayer focused since its inception that the logical steps would be to incorporate more "you can see what random players are up to"-type features rather than make an mmo outright.

 

[Oracle Link]

Videospiel-Man for SMASH!

Uh i mean Videospiel-Man THE COMIC for Smash BOARDS!
Here: Videospiel-Man Comic
Is this a plug... YES But i talked about Smash so i can put it here!
It would literally sink in general social and i cant use my own pictures on my page!
Hey You draw 8 Pages Twice and than you wanna have as many people see it as possible!
There are also 0 of "THEM" In the first chapter!

If youre wondering Hey why advertise the comic when you only have a chapter?
Jokes on you i have 4 of them!
Anyways my monthly plug is now used!

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't know, might have a problem with that. Jokes aside, I feel like a hand throwing the peace sign feels a bit too generic. It's not really something I associate with Rayman specifically you know? Plenty of characters use the peace sign and it's extremely common both as an emoji/real world use.

I'm also in favor of treating the Rabbids as their own thing. Sure they got their start with Rayman and technically share a universe (at least I think that's still the case?) But it spun off into it's own series ages ago. A silhouette of a Rabbid works great for the Rabbids series but it's ill fitting as a means of representing the whole Rayman franchise. They're emblematic of a particular era but otherwise completely absent from both the series origin/classic titles and the modern UbiArt games.

It's very nit picky but I kinda have the same problem with Mega Man and Persona tbh. The gear makes enough sense because machines/robots but I still feel it's too generic. Understanbly there aren't a lot of choices for reoccurring symbols or power ups so I get why they went with it. All I can think of are E Tanks or Dr. Wily's own symbol. Outside of those I still feel like Mega Man's helmet could have worked or maybe a Mettaur since they appear throughout the whole franchise not just Classic.

Persona is the opposite, I feel like it's too specific to 5. Yes that is the main game being represented and the Phantom Thieves logo is a great fit for a symbol of P5, but if it's supposed to be Persona as a whole then it just doesn't work. Again, it's very nit picky but we do technically have content from other Persona games and if the series content gets expanded on in the future then it's going to be even more of an oddity.

Same thing with Xenoblade. The franchise symbol is the Monado, something that only appears in the first game. Although, at the time of Smash 4 when the franchise was first repped in Smash the first game was the only game.

 

[fogbadge]

Same thing with Xenoblade. The franchise symbol is the Monado, something that only appears in the first game. Although, at the time of Smash 4 when the franchise was first repped in Smash the first game was the only game.

that’s not true there’s been a monado in all the games

 

[Will]

The franchise symbol is the Monado, something that only appears in the first game.

that’s not true there’s been a monado in all the games

Need a big bold asterisk here that says Zanza’s Monado. There are other Monados, but only his matches the look. I get what he’s saying, even if it’s technically wrong.

I don’t think an icon has changed, except for Snake because of Konami-Kojima copyright.

 

[Sucumbio]

I remember thinking gnw victory music in brawl was the same as snake but I don't know if it was actually true or just similar...

 

[Will]

I remember thinking gnw victory music in brawl was the same as snake but I don't know if it was actually true or just similar...

…Mr. Game and Watch?

 

[fogbadge]

Need a big bold asterisk here that says Zanza’s Monado. There are other Monados, but only his matches the look. I get what he’s saying, even if it’s technically wrong.

I don’t think an icon has changed, except for Snake because of Konami-Kojima copyright.

well that's still not quite right. in X the monado cameos on the insufferable lin lee's hair pins, looking just like the logo. in 3 shulk's new monado is clearly based on the original and in 2 shulk is a dlc character with that same monado. and that's without going into spoilers

 

[Will]

well that's still not quite right. in X the monado cameos on the insufferable lin lee's hair pins, looking just like the logo. in 3 shulk's new monado is clearly based on the original and in 2 shulk is a dlc character with that same monado. and that's without going into spoilers

Yeah, but that’s common sense that Shulk’s blade appears where Shulk is. The dude was saying the blade is only significant in XC1. The Monado shouldn’t even really look the way it does now, which is why I said Zanza’s Monado.

 

[BritishGuy54]

Same thing with Xenoblade. The franchise symbol is the Monado, something that only appears in the first game. Although, at the time of Smash 4 when the franchise was first repped in Smash the first game was the only game.

That’s not exactly true. A possible alternative could be the Aegis symbol (the crucifix symbol on Pythra’s chest), but it’s not a necessity to change.

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, but that’s common sense that Shulk’s blade appears where Shulk is. The dude was saying the blade is only significant in XC1. The Monado shouldn’t even really look the way it does now, which is why I said Zanza’s Monado.

you mean alvis’ monado. who appears in all three

 

[Will]

you mean alvis’ monado. who appears in all three

You know every Monado is personalized, why are you even arguing semantics?

 

[fogbadge]

You know every Monado is personalized, why are you even arguing semantics?

Hey you’re the one who insisted on calling it zanzas rather than shulks so you can hardly talk

 

[osby]

Persona is the opposite, I feel like it's too specific to 5. Yes that is the main game being represented and the Phantom Thieves logo is a great fit for a symbol of P5, but if it's supposed to be Persona as a whole then it just doesn't work. Again, it's very nit picky but we do technically have content from other Persona games and if the series content gets expanded on in the future then it's going to be even more of an oddity.

On the other hand, it's not easy to find a logo that can represent the entire Persona series. Tarot cards' design changes every other game and butterflies don't feel particularly prominent as a figure in any game but the first one.

I think it makes sense to represent the franchise with a mask, given its namesake - and Joker's mask is probably the most iconic one at this point.