Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Ivander]

I'd argue you could make a very strong case for Sidon even if he's not as reccuring as Impa. First, he's the only Botw champions to come back in Totk, which for Zelda standard appearing in 2 games is already pretty big, especially with a fairly similar design so there's no debate with which version to go. He's also hugely popular, I always see fanarts of him despite that I'm not really part of the Zelda fandom.

First off, he wasn't a Champion, that was his sister Mipha. Second, I will not stand for Yunobo, Riju and Teba erasure who've also appeared in TotK and AoC alongside Sidon. And yes, I'm aware Teba didn't become a Sage compared to the other 3, but he still appeared.

The same goes with Fire emblem heroes content. The game is doing fine, but there will sure come a day that servers will have to shutdown.

Well it's certainly not shutting down anytime soon, what with Chapter 8 starting and the FEH Revenue getting a notable increase after the CYL7 Brave Banner and making it to the trending list a few times since then. Also, at least some of the FEHeroes content won't be gone completely, what with characters from FEH appearing in Fire Emblem Engage, including Veronica as a full fledged emblem.

Edit: Also, fanart should never be a factor for a character getting in Smash, cause if it were, Camilla from Fire Emblem would trounce all the other Fire Emblem characters that appear in Smash Bros.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Wait a second, I float in and out of this thread but-

Did someone really say that Bubsy freakin’ Bobcat deserves to be in Smash more than Banjo?

First of all I hate using the term deserves in these discussions, and second of all-

View attachment 381967

Why

Well not necessarily, but he acted like Smash needs to be a celebration of gaming that needs to be too elite for Banjo and Geno...while having Bubsy as a most wanted, unaware that no Elite Video Game Hall Of Fame Who's Too Elite For Those Dead Characters Only Nintendo Millennials Care About would add a character who's best known for one of the worst PS1 games of all time.

 

[AlRex]

I sort get that Wario guy reasoning for wanting a bad character but honestly, kinda dislike the mentality of wanting characters to just troll or just needlessly chaos within the community. Not only it's tiring and irratating for discourse, like the others said, when the "funny" fades, you left with choice with no substance behind it.

I don’t mean it necessarily in a “lol I troll u” sense, but more in an “allowance of creativity” sense, if anything. Like, not even just talking bad games, but unconventional or creative type of movesets in general, which Smash already has a lot of examples of in basically every entry. Even Fox is kind of an extrapolation right from the first Smash game, considering he wasn’t really getting out of his ship at the time. And for the more obviously “goofy” examples, you have Mr. Game & Watch, Duck Hunt, the Wii Fit Trainer, Piranha Plant, and for more towards the point of “historical relevance and/or uniqueness, but not necessarily a great game”, Ice Climbers and ROB, who I mentioned earlier.

 

[Perkilator]

It's all well and good going "but they'd be funny tho" until you realise the character is also taking a spot from a character you would have actually wanted once the funny factor wears off after a few weeks.

Me when Piranha Plant

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Well anyway we already have a bad series representative. His name is Sonic.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Prince of Persia is darn iconic and industry, shoot genre defining and should be in Smash. That is all.

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[Laniv]

People are talking about Smash Bros being a celebration of gaming again, I see. Is this the part where I talk about Lara Croft?

 

[AlRex]

People are talking about Smash Bros being a celebration of gaming again, I see. Is this the part where I talk about Lara Croft?

I absolutely think she should be in, I don’t really see a reason not to.

 

[Perkilator]

You really wanna celebrate gaming? Then at the very least, we can also acknowledge the other universes from the 3rd party companies represented through songs and Spirits; you know, if they don’t get a playable character for whatever reason.

 

[Wonder Smash]

When it comes to "bad" things in video games, it's more something to forget about rather than to celebrate. I don't think there's anything about the Bubsy series to celebrate, especially in relation to Nintendo.

And as we know, there's far worse things in video games than Bubsy and I don't think anybody wants to celebrate them in Smash.

 

[fogbadge]

it's funny how in the debate of celebration of gaming no one ever seems to say hey lets included someone from the earliest days of gaming

 

[Mamboo07]

it's funny how in the debate of celebration of gaming no one ever seems to say hey lets included someone from the earliest days of gaming

Space Invaders as a stage would be pretty interesting or even Centipede itself as a fighter.

 

[Ivander]

it's funny how in the debate of celebration of gaming no one ever seems to say hey lets included someone from the earliest days of gaming

Well, Pong is already in it as an AT.

 

[fogbadge]

Space Invaders as a stage would be pretty interesting or even Centipede itself as a fighter.

Well, Pong is already in it as an AT.

earlier

 

[Will]

Every character that people dislike can be said to take up a slot already, and there are several who already say it.

Also, Ice Climbers and ROB are not necessarily great as games, but are still included for some kind of importance or uniqueness factor or both.

And what is Bubsy’s importance and uniqueness factor? I think this is the genuine question everyone’s been asking.

 

[cashregister9]

earlier

This stage could be pretty goofy

 

[Perkilator]

I recently did the Mario Wonder event in Tetris 99 before it ended and it made me think of how a Tetris stage could work; have the Tetrominos arranged into a Battlefield-like stage but the gimmick is that Tetrominos appear from all sides and slowly close in on the stage to either expand it or destroy parts of it.

 

[Will]

earlier

Mach Rider was a toy before it was a video game.

 

[Louie G.]

Also, Ice Climbers and ROB are not necessarily great as games, but are still included for some kind of importance or uniqueness factor or both.

I don't think anyone inherently has a problem with "bad" games being represented in Smash if the characters / content are strong, it holds some greater significance, etc etc. It arguably applies to several games with notable content already, subjective of course.

I think the issue most people took was the idea that Bubsy, who I hate to dwell on for so long but this was the example given, would be a worthwhile inclusion because his game is bad. The worth of the character is apparently rooted in their infamy first and foremost. "Bad" games can get represented in Smash for any number of reasons - to supplement existing fighters (Sonic 06, Sonic Forces), represent some greater historical impact (Stack Up), offer a unique gameplay function (Ice Climber... which has moreso just aged poorly). Not because the games are bad.

So I think the plot has been lost a bit with this argument since yeah, nobody is against bad games simply being in Smash at all because they arguably have been there for about two decades. But being so bad that everyone knows your name is not a strong merit to be in Smash on its own... not every caveat of "gaming history" needs to be accounted for and certainly there are characters with very valuable and important contributions to the industry who would be difficult to justify shafting in favor of an effective punching bag... if we're still on the whole celebration of gaming thing anyway.

 

[fogbadge]

Mach Rider was a toy before it was a video game.

not quite what I meant

 

[Will]

not quite what I meant

There isn’t anything with graphics to use before Pong except playing tic-tac-toe against a computer and a worse Space Invaders. What did you expect?

 

[Louie G.]

not quite what I meant

Rather than speaking in riddles, why don't you tell us which character you want to talk about?

 

[UserKev]

Prince of Persia is darn iconic and industry, shoot genre defining and should be in Smash. That is all.

Prince of Persia is definitely slept on. I remember mentioning him far back and no one else seem to even remember the character. He's Smash friendly and material wise. Would be neat if you could figure out a time gimmick into his moveset.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I feel like best chance Prince of Persia has of getting recognition in smash is getting some kind of passing reference with Assassins creed content, since Assassins creed started life being asociated with Prince of Persia.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Okay I'll bite.

Somebody sell me on Bubsy. Why should I support him? Why would he be cool?

 

[Ivander]

Okay I'll bite.

Somebody sell me on Bubsy. Why should I support him? Why would he be cool?

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Nabbitfan730]

You really wanna celebrate gaming? Then at the very least, we can also acknowledge the other universes from the 3rd party companies represented through songs and Spirits; you know, if they don’t get a playable character for whatever reason.

If you really wanna celebrate gaming? Then Nintendo influences needs decrease dramatically.

 

[Will]

What could possibly go wrong?

*Pawsibly

 

[dream1ng]

It's all well and good going "but they'd be funny tho" until you realise the character is also taking a spot from a character you would have actually wanted once the funny factor wears off after a few weeks.

I can get behind the version of this argument that bases character inclusion solely around their reveal, because that is fleeting. But I don't really buy into the "x took the spot from a character you wanted" argument. Yes, it would've taken the spot from another character. But a character you actually wanted? There's no guarantee of that. Even if it did, we'd probably never find out.

It depends what your hit rate is for characters. If you were over the moon about like 90% of the DLC, and would be over the moon about 90% of the likely inclusions, fair enough. But not everyone is so lucky. I was ambivalent towards like 75% of the DLC choices, and even actively disliked a few. The chance of getting a character I actually want is already fairly low, it's likely he took a spot from a character I wasn't really invested in.

And at that point, making me laugh with the audacity of including the posterboy for bad games and tired mascots, with him being a purposefully kinda **** joke character would be enough for me to appreciate the inclusion more than some third-party I feel nothing towards. As long as he didn't take one of the fanbase pick spots, because those are quite limited. Which, as not a fanbase pick, he presumably wouldn't.

Would I prefer some character I actually support? Of course. But it's not an either/or scenario of exclusively those options.

Not saying this is how others should feel. If we legitimately got Bubsy (which we obviously won't), I get why people would be like wtf. But I sincerely wouldn't be any more put off by this inclusion than other third-parties I don't really care about. That level of trolling would amuse me more than anything.

 

[Sucumbio]

...in favor of an effective punching bag...

This is how Sandbag gets in!

Sandbag for Smash!

 

[Gorgonzales]

If Bubsy ever does make it into a Smash game I'd love it if they deliberately left his coding entirely up to the interns or something. It'd be such a great meta-joke to have his animations look relatively straightforward but for his physics/hitboxes to be very janky and feel dissonant from the rest of the cast, like he's not even supposed to be here

 

[Perkilator]

If Bubsy had a Spirit Battle, I think it would be funny if the Puppet Fighter is tiny, starts at 300%, taunts constantly, and you're giant.

 

[DarthEnderX]

it's funny how in the debate of celebration of gaming no one ever seems to say hey lets included someone from the earliest days of gaming

What's "the earliest days of gaming"? Nintendo's Pong clone is already an AT. And Pac-Man is a Fighter.

earlier

You mean, like...cup and ball?

I don't think anyone inherently has a problem with "bad" games being represented in Smash if the characters / content are strong, it holds some greater significance, etc etc.

I kinda do. Especially if they only have bad games. Like Ice Climbers, ROB...or Kingdom Hearts.

If you really wanna celebrate gaming? Then Nintendo influences needs decrease dramatically.

No. 3P influences just need to increase dramatically.

 

[Louie G.]

What's "the earliest days of gaming"? Nintendo's Pong clone is already an AT. And Pac-Man is a Fighter.

Space Invaders is probably the oldest game left that I foresee getting some representation in the future.

Not as a fighter mind you, but an Assist Trophy seems like a must and some sort of mob boss fight with unique lose conditions could be interesting as well.

 

[Sucumbio]

Cup n Ball

Oh like this

This is harder than it looks!

 

[DarthEnderX]

This is harder than it looks!

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[Gorgonzales]

Space Invaders is probably the oldest game left that I foresee getting some representation in the future.

Not as a fighter mind you, but an Assist Trophy seems like a must and some sort of mob boss fight with unique lose conditions could be interesting as well.

Oh dang, that could be a neat Smash Run event.

An event titled --Space Invasion!!-- or something like that where it spawns in tons of enemy invaders that get faster the longer they stay alive would be really dope

 

[SPEN18]

I can get behind the version of this argument that bases character inclusion solely around their reveal, because that is fleeting. But I don't really buy into the "x took the spot from a character you wanted" argument. Yes, it would've taken the spot from another character. But a character you actually wanted? There's no guarantee of that. Even if it did, we'd probably never find out.

While there is certainly no guarantee that the character we'd get instead would be somebody you particularly want and/or care about, I still agree with the overall sentiment. That a pure joke character would still be taking away resources from content that at least has some legitimate, thought-out reasons to be included beyond just "they'd be funny."
Like, it's one thing for them to seriously consider a bunch of at least arguably worthy candidates and at the end of it land on a choice that you disagree with or view as suboptimal, but investing significant and precious development resources into a completely non-serious choice would not sit well with me.
What I'm saying is that even if the character or content we'd get instead is ultimately not stuff I personally care about or even stuff I flat-out disagree with, I'd still prefer items that they at least made a serious effort to justify and had real motivations to include over, well, items without that.

 

[AlRex]

I would say at least including an Atari character (not actually Bubsy himself yet), an actual Sony-owned PlayStation character (likely Kratos), and Master Chief would be the biggest things to include that have nothing in so far. Of course, Sony is easier said than done. Some other things already have Mii costumes and Spirits, at least. Off the top of my head, other things that have no inclusion whatsoever are Space Invaders, Q*Bert, Frogger, Carmen Sandiego, Ninja Gaiden, Puyo Puyo, Contra, the LucasArts games, Mortal Kombat, Warcraft, Grand Theft Auto, Tomb Raider, Touhou Project, Cave Story, Ace Attorney, Professor Layton, Angry Birds, Five Nights at Freddy's, definitely a lot I'm forgetting.

 

[Wonder Smash]

If you really wanna celebrate gaming? Then Nintendo influences needs decrease dramatically.

I'll keep the Nintendo influences...which never really went anywhere anyway.