Idon
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inb4 Mario and Rabbids 3 fakeout into smash trailer
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Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter NonSpecificGuy
- Start date
chocolatejr9
Smash Hero
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Why not both?
I still say Rayman should’ve been a DLC character in Sm4sh.
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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Give Rayman his voice from the current netflix cartoon when he joins smash so i can continue to laugh at a Xenoblade and Thomas the tankengine alumni voicing him.
HERE YE BWD ENJOYERS
dream1ng
Smash Champion
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They could, but they could've done that just with who was in Smash 4 base. Once you've got Sega, Capcom and Namco on board, you can go games before the options get lacklustre.
On the other hand, they go to new companies simply for spirits and costumes. They license additional IP just to be supporting content, much of which they don't even charge for. Instead of resting on their laurels, nearly every third-party added to Ultimate's roster involved the folding in of some new contingent into negotiation or collaboration, even if it was simply a new subset of an existing company. I mean, they chose to add an extra character outside the original plan, and that extra character was probably the most difficult acquisition so far in the series, given Disney and Square. They didn't need to do that.
Avoiding more work and taking the easy way doesn't seem to be their priority. Which is certainly commendable.
MasterCheef
Smash Ace
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Kirbeh
Smash Champion
It's likely because they're still relatively niche. Both fighting games and beat em ups are niche genres as well. The more general/casual audience isn't going to know what River City or BlazBlue are. Terry's reception back when he got added to Ultimate is pretty telling.
To us GG/BB are great worthwhile fighting games and we understand/appreciate the legacy of series like DD/RC, but that's just it. It's a few of us in a pretty small circle.
Even for ArcSys as a dev in general, they only got wider recognition once they made DBFZ. DBZ is pretty well known/popular even outside of anime watchers/manga readers.
That definitely got them some more attention and some more people into trying Strive at least, but they're still not that big with casuals or Nintendo centric circles like Smash players.
I wager there's more demand from Japanese players and some decent support in other areas, same as with SNK, we just don't see it too often on our end since the focus here tends to be on western English speakers.
I do also want to clarify that this isn't me trying to downplay the chances of ArcSys getting content. I think they have a decent shot and as far as personal wants go, they're towards the top of my list. I'm just not surprised at the lack of discourse/confidence in said chances.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I'm pretty sure most casual gamers have at least HEARD of Guilty Gear at this point. Even if they don't play it.
dream1ng
Smash Champion
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I'm not confident "most" is true, but I also think of the series from remaining unrepresented Japanese companies it's one of the more well known.
I agree.
Gengar84
Smash Hero
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Yeah, those choices make a lot of sense and they’d be fun to play in Smash. Digimon Cyber Sleuth has some great music that I’d hope we could get in Smash along with the main stage theme from Super Bomberman. Bubble Bobble was one of my favorite games as a kid so it would be fun to see them. I can never complain about a cool ninja character like Hyabusa despite never playing a Ninja Gaiden game. That series has an awesome main theme as well. The only one I have no connection towards is Layton. Still, I love both Dark Cloud and Rogue Galaxy so it would be great to see Level 5 get some attention.
While I agree Hyabusa is the most likely Koei-Tecmo pick, I’m not writing off Lu Bu as another possible option. I have a lot more personal connection to the Warriors games than Ninja Gaiden so that would be my preference. Hyabusa’s cool too though so I’m happy either way.
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finally someone's talking sense
Hadokeyblade
Smash Legend
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I feel like the one problem with Layton is that most moveset ideas ive seen for him seem kinda abstract, given he's the protagonist of a visual novel.
You could easily come up with his A button moves since he's frequently shown in the series as being a proficient sword fighter, being able to pick up any stick like object and use it as a good sword, its the special i tend to draw a blank on.
You could easily come up with his A button moves since he's frequently shown in the series as being a proficient sword fighter, being able to pick up any stick like object and use it as a good sword, its the special i tend to draw a blank on.
Ivander
Smash Legend
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You could also use some of the MacGyver-like inventions he's made for his Specials, like the Slot machine gun.
puzzles. use his puzzles
I thought that could work as well. I’d say, in fact, that could allow for creative moveset potential.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I mean...3 of those aren't new companies. Agumon is Bandai Namco. Bomberman is Konami. And Bub & Bob are SquareEnix.
Yeah. That oughtta work in a fighting game about as well as Hero's RPG menus...
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Except Hero’s RPG menus and the puzzles are two different things. I would say there is more Sakurai can do with the puzzles compared to the RPG menus.
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I'm sure there is. And none of it is stuff I want to be doing mid-fight.
Just like Hero's awful RPG mechanics or Steve's awful build mechanics.
Yeah, while I respect your opinion, I do think it can work if done right. Plus, I can actually see it as using elements of puzzles (other than the idea of full puzzles) being used in Layton's moveset rather than solving puzzles or completing any part of them. I just can see parts of the puzzles be used in a fight.
I made a moveset once for a character that is old school and Japan only that also used puzzle elements for their moveset. The puzzle elements can be used for fighting rather than trying to solve them mid-fight.
Do you think we mean solving puzzles mid battle?
Ivander
Smash Legend
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If Professor Layton were to get puzzle elements for his moveset, I think it's best to make it part of his Final Smash. Solving the puzzle deals bigger damage, failing the puzzle deals less damage. Kinda like the EX-Mode Attacks from Dissidia Final Fantasy.
I can see puzzle elements of the puzzles Layton solves be used to fight and cause damage to other fighters instead of solving actual puzzles. It would be in the form of summoning such elements to fight with.
Louie G.
Smash Hero
Shoot me down, but if I could put money down on one new "company" getting an upgrade next Smash it would be Toby Fox (w/ Sans). With Deltarune in production it keeps the characters in the public eye and really, however you want to look at it (I suspect some people will chalk it up to memes), that insane amount of surprise and excitement around a mere Mii costume is impossible to ignore. Nobody came even remotely close.
But Hayabusa continues to be a no brainer. Then again, we said that last time and look what happened - as much as Ninja Gaiden makes sense I'm beginning to question whether or not they are eager to go ahead and do it.
But Hayabusa continues to be a no brainer. Then again, we said that last time and look what happened - as much as Ninja Gaiden makes sense I'm beginning to question whether or not they are eager to go ahead and do it.
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Diddy Kong
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If anything I really REALLY want the next Smash to avoid jank bull**** as Hero's RNG spell menu and Steve's everything all in the name of "uniqueness" because it just makes the game even more chaotic than it should be. There's no reason these characters should have more options than the rest, and actually kinda makes me wish more characters got fleshed out and got more canon material in their moveset so it's all a little more homogeneous, and characters like Steve don't become overwhelming and honestly just straight up problematic like they are now.
I like it a lot when fighting game characters get their direct move set translated to Smash, as its wonderful and functional. What Steve does isn't anything I want them to ever replicate and I'd seriously advocate for the removal of this character if I had any sort of decision making power on this.
I like it a lot when fighting game characters get their direct move set translated to Smash, as its wonderful and functional. What Steve does isn't anything I want them to ever replicate and I'd seriously advocate for the removal of this character if I had any sort of decision making power on this.
Oracle Link
Smash Master
BTW these have nothing to do with smash but i noticed that yunobo and TOTK Zonai Dress ZElda show barely up on Google Pictures so here a gift to any fan of these Charcters:
I know these arent perfect but its the best we´ve Got Sorry!
I know these arent perfect but its the best we´ve Got Sorry!
At this point they do have a history with poorly balanced DLC.
But I think with a bit of a roster scale-down and the longer dev cycle with base game they should hopefully be able to get things in check. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
Generally I don't think poor balancing is a reason to cut a character; typically I'd argue in favor of attempting to buff/nerf or even rework them instead.
I mean, I can't say I was in the camp wanting Steve in the game, but the moveset isn't really my issue there.
This said, I can understand wanting simpler movesets, and more homogeneity in the options each character has available to them. I can see how it would seem unfair for certain characters to get very complicated, specialized mechanics while others are more "standard," especially in cases where members of the former group end up top-tier.
Personally I think the goal is mostly keeping characters true to themselves while also staying true to Smash's core design principles, for example ease of play. It's kind of a judgment call when it comes to how much deviation from the norm is allowed in new movesets.
But I think with a bit of a roster scale-down and the longer dev cycle with base game they should hopefully be able to get things in check. Maybe I'm too optimistic.
Generally I don't think poor balancing is a reason to cut a character; typically I'd argue in favor of attempting to buff/nerf or even rework them instead.
I mean, I can't say I was in the camp wanting Steve in the game, but the moveset isn't really my issue there.
This said, I can understand wanting simpler movesets, and more homogeneity in the options each character has available to them. I can see how it would seem unfair for certain characters to get very complicated, specialized mechanics while others are more "standard," especially in cases where members of the former group end up top-tier.
Personally I think the goal is mostly keeping characters true to themselves while also staying true to Smash's core design principles, for example ease of play. It's kind of a judgment call when it comes to how much deviation from the norm is allowed in new movesets.
Wonder Smash
Smash Champion
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How does this explain their confidence in companies like Level 5 and Nihon Falcom? I understand Koei Tecmo but them? I'm almost certain fans would be more familiar with ASW games than theirs and I don't even mean just the license games. So the niche reason definitely can't be the reason why.
Legacy is a very important thing to take into account. Guilty Gear may not be a household name like Street Fighter but it is a big influence in its own way, being the primary example of an "anime fighter" and if people are not that confident in Mortal Kombat getting in, it does seems like the next best thing. But fighting games are pretty big thanks to series like Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Tekken, so I'm certain some people know of Guilty Gear, even if they haven't played it.
As for the beat'em ups, they've made quite a resurgence in recent years, with River City being a noticeable part of that resurgence. Its recognitions has grown a lot over the years. And while it may not seem like it today, Double Dragon was almost as big as Mario and Street Fighter back in the day. It pretty much was a household name in the beat'em up genre. Heck, even today, I don't think a lot of people will be that clueless about what Double Dragon is.
But of course, if there's anything people do know about River City and Double Dragon, it's how they set the standards for the beat'em up genre itself. So if you put that together, along with everything else I just said, how can anybody lack so much confidence in their chances? Especially when there's ASW content in Smash with the River City spirits.
I don't have a problem with people being confident in companies like Level 5 and Nihon Falcom but Arc System Works has too many heavy hitters of their own to not be confident in them too.
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Oracle Link
Smash Master
BTW For those who want to see sans in smash how would you justify him being in bad time Mode?
I dont know seems out of character for sans to sadistacally To dunk on everyone!
I dont know seems out of character for sans to sadistacally To dunk on everyone!
Louie G.
Smash Hero
I think the key is doing the opposite. Sans wouldn't be taking the fight very seriously, several attacks would be pranks (hand buzzer as a jab?) or light kicks. Teleportation is a standard aspect of the character whether he's mad or not, since he's always popping up in different places. Using bones is pretty standard too, so it really boils down to those Gaster Blasters in which case... I dunno, I guess we just suspend disbelief a bit. I think Sans would recognize that Smash is pretty low stakes and take it easy, maybe if you want a canonical explanation he's just using a weaker version. So we've got a pretty solid moveset right there.
But one of the defining traits of the character and one that would definitely be reflected in Smash is that Sans is lazy. With how powerful he's demonstrated himself to be, even a dialed back less enthusiastic version of his boss battle attacks would be fairly strong and his weaker kicks and bones would be good juggle tools and combo extenders. Overall we're probably looking at a glass cannon.
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yeah it'd be like having a character who doesn't like confrontation on the roster or at least two character who are know for being fearful.
wait a second.....
DarthEnderX
Smash Hero
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I did. Do you just mean normal attacks that just LOOK like his puzzles? Like how Phoenix Wright's 'Objection!' is an attack in Marvel?
So he'd be, what? Hitting people with sliding blocks and matchsticks?
Seems like if he's bothering to participate in Smash at all, he's already bought in to the fact that he's fighting people, and it's generally consequence free, so he's free to fight how he wants.
Besides, if he was really in bad time mode, you wouldn't even be able to hit him.
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Pretty much yeah.
CapitaineCrash
Smash Champion
Yeah I mentionned it a bit on my previous post on that topic, but I think people forget that a new company could just be indie. I think Toby Fox make a lot of sense, but others could be Yacht club, Team cherry, Brace yourself, Supergiant or WayForward.
I think the Level 5 confidence is mostly becuase they have already a huge relationship with Nintendo and while this isn't a necessity, it definitely help their case a lot even if their game are a bit more niche. Their biggest franchise, Layton, is pretty much Nintendo exclusives aside from a few ios/android ports, and Yokai watch was also Nintendo exclusive for a very long time before ps4 got Yokai watch 4. Even if you look at their future games, Fantasy life i is Switch exclusive, and Decapolice, while not exclusive, was heavily marketed on Nintendo direct to the point that I saw many people not knowing that it's releasing on Playstation.
Falcom is a bit different. This might sound silly, but I just have a gut feeling that Trails would be the type of franchise that Sakurai would love to add in Smash considering is love for Jrpg. I would also argue that Falcom is in a situation very similar to SNK: both had a huge impact on their respective genre (fighting and Jrpg), but got overshadow by bigger publisher with more budget (such as Capcom or Square enix). So both are pretty much stuck to do lower budget game compared to the competition (like KoF obviously not having the budget of SF, Tekken or MK, and Trails obviously not having the budget of FF, Tales of or Persona), but they both still managed to have fairly big dedicated fanbase that followed them through the year. So I think that since Terry addition, many Smash fans realise that there's room in the game to smaller franchise too, not just huge name like Cloud.
RodNutTakin
Smash Lord
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- Jul 14, 2014
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I feel like the costume happened for a reason. Canonically Sans is extremely weak physically (IIRC he has 1 HP internally) and has to dodge the player's attacks in order to not get instantly dusted--same with his attacks, they all do 1 point of damage with the "1 hit per frame" thing being the loophole the fight uses. While I wouldn't say it's impossible I feel it'd be awkward to have that comfortably translate to a fighter.
I COULD see the character working as an Assist Trophy pretty well though, have it be a random chance that he either blocks the screen with textbox quips like Resetti used to do, or he uses some of the bone attacks from his fight with the projectiles having the "1% of damage per frame that someone's touching it" property they're known for.
If a Toby Fox character becomes a fighter I can't imagine it being anyone besides Kris--Deltarune is clearly the man's true passion project. Though on the other hand, I also don't see Kris getting in until Toby's absolutely finalized everything he wants to have happen in Deltarune (I.E. the earliest I could see it happening would be him being released right before Chapter 7 comes out), Toby strikes me as the kind of person who'd want to have Deltarune have as much stuff as possible before letting it appear in Smash.
Louie G.
Smash Hero
I definitely understand that perspective but I think it's pretty easy to just translate the IDEA of that into a character rather than taking it at its most literal. In this case I think Sans being tremendously light reflects his 1HP shtick while I don't believe the 1pt of damage is quite as important. Worst case scenario, Sans just has a lot of multi-hit attacks just like his boss fight - I'm sure his gaster blaster would have a lingering hitbox at full charge for example (think Robin's Thoron). But I get where you're coming from, personally I don't think it'd be a big deal but I wouldn't blame you if you did. I think Sans was just a costume because they weren't confident in giving a relatively fresh indie hit like Undertale the executive treatment yet. 4 years later, I think it's affirmed its longevity.
Also yeah, I'm absolutely loving Deltarune so far but I'm not gonna campaign too hard for that until the game is actually done. Certainly if we just got more substantial Undertale content down the line, we could at least get a few tracks from Deltarune on top of that. Although I think it's hard to sell Kris over Sans (or Frisk I guess) since Undertale is coming up on nearly a decade of notoriety and Deltarune is currently building that reputation.
Undertale, for now, is the game that shook the gaming landscape and became a stone cold classic... I do think Deltarune will get there but it'll be a while. God knows when the next Smash will be so maybe it will get there by then lmao.
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I feel like this point is rather irrelevant to the case honestly. Most people in the general consensus couldn’t tell you who the hell Terry was, to the point that Sakurai did a history lesson on SNK, but that doesn’t detract from the importance of the character or the Company.
Well the conversation was originally about new companies though. Sure, the developers already present in the game have a bunch of legendary franchises but like said before if there’s a NEW company I feel like Falcom is at the top of the list.
With respect to both Level-5 and ASW, Falcom is legendary in Japan. It’s one of the oldest developers still in business starting up in 1981. They’ve always been extremely successful in Japan and now they’re starting to branch their way into America with both the Ys games and Trails of Cold Steel doing pretty well in the last few years. If there’s a company that I could see Nintendo wanting to improve their relationship with I do believe Falcom is the move.