Official Next Smash - Speculation & Discussion Thread

[Hadokeyblade]

Sora is possibly the hardest character to obtain on the roster.

That said, it's happened already, which is a huge boon, and he's quite literally the winner of the ballot. Nintendo will want him back.

I think this might be a tiny bit overblown tbh.

As far as i can tell Disney licensed product arent THAT hard to grab, they are just mostly particular with how their IP's are repped, they're main demand being that characters be as accurate to the source as possible, which Smash already does.

(This is what ruined Marvel vs capcom since Disney insisted on having the game be completely accurate to the MCU.)

 

[TheLamerGamer]

I decided to try my hand at making a Smash 6 roster:
View attachment 376103

• Yu - Persona's explosion in popularity since the release of 5 and Joker's insane popularity as a character in Ultimate definitely justifies getting a second Persona character. Yu seems like the most obvious edition, being the protagonist of the most popular entry in the series behind 5. Plus, while Joker focused on Persona's dichotomous gameplay system through alternating between a resource-gathering phase and a combat-focused phase, Yu could represent Persona's combat systems by augmenting his attacks through switching through a handful of Persona (probably Izanagi, Jack Frost, and Jack O' Lantern for a electric-ice-fire trio).
• Makoto was added to represent the three Persona games that Atlus loves to promote and to promote the Persona 3 remake. He would swap Jack O'Latern for Orpheus and Izanagi for Pixie respectively.

3 Persona reps before an SMT rep is equally sad and believable... Mind you, I'd be happy to get Makoto as a playable character at some point.

And for the Disney stuff, I think they probably aren't that hard to negotiate with, but will ask for a lot - that wouldn't be a problem for something like mvc, since they're the only company capcom has to pay for rights (and Sony for spiderman if that was a thing then), meanwhile for smash the budget's already spread so thin on other companies, I can imagine that much money for one character not being that appealing.

 

[Arcanir]

A bit late to the conversation, but on the note of Pokemon if Gen 9 does get skipped over for 10 in terms of a playable character, I at least want it to pull a Gen 5 and get a stage. It has a number of good spots for a stage idea, and Area Zero in particular, like the Unova Pokemon League for Gen 5, is one of the most memorable areas and moments in Pokemon. It would lend so well to a stage in Smash between the scenery, the descent into the lower areas and the lab, and of course the Paradox Pokemon, and it'd be a shame for that potential to be skipped over.

 

[SPEN18]

Actually Eevee itself already could fit the bill as a somewhat "surprising" Pokémon pick in that it's a mon that a lot of people probably wouldn't immediately think of as "fighter." And it's got a lot of merit and popularity behind it.
You probably wouldn't be able to work all the evolutions into a moveset but they could be represented with alt costumes (to be clear, just palette swap references not actual separate models) and the Final Smash.

 

[Idon]

3 Persona reps before an SMT rep is equally sad and believable... Mind you, I'd be happy to get Makoto as a playable character at some point.

And for the Disney stuff, I think they probably aren't that hard to negotiate with, but will ask for a lot - that wouldn't be a problem for something like mvc, since they're the only company capcom has to pay for rights (and Sony for spiderman if that was a thing then), meanwhile for smash the budget's already spread so thin on other companies, I can imagine that much money for one character not being that appealing.

Yeah, this may be...

The most depressing newcomer list I've seen in my life.

No bias of course.

 

[fogbadge]

Sora is possibly the hardest character to obtain on the roster.

That said, it's happened already, which is a huge boon, and he's quite literally the winner of the ballot. Nintendo will want him back.

i dunno, steve taking five years to get in would suggest he is

 

[DarthEnderX]

Yeah, if we were counting spirits then we'd also have Kyle Hyde and Ashley Robbins.

I dunno why we wouldn't count Spirits. They're part of the game.

It's "celebration of gaming" not "celebration of gaming as playable characters".

Was Konami just not asked back for 4? Did they refuse? How likely do you think their return is?

As likely as Nintendo's willingness to pay. Konami will license out anything these days.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Actually Eevee itself already could fit the bill as a somewhat "surprising" Pokémon pick in that it's a mon that a lot of people probably wouldn't immediately think of as "fighter." And it's got a lot of merit and popularity behind it.
You probably wouldn't be able to work all the evolutions into a moveset but they could be represented with alt costumes (to be clear, just palette swap references not actual separate models) and the Final Smash.

Not really sold on Eevee as a fighter.

But it is worth mentioning Eevee does have eeveelution themed outfits in Let's Go Eevee you you really want to go out on the alts.

 

[SPEN18]

Not really sold on Eevee as a fighter.

But it is worth mentioning Eevee does have eeveelution themed outfits in Let's Go Eevee you you really want to go out on the alts.

I imagine Eevee's fighting style as "playfully messing with its opponent."

Pestering them with Swift projectiles and Sand Attacks, taking them off-guard with its Baby-Doll Eyes (which could act like a brief stun move or something). I'm sure people can come up with creative ways to incorporate stuff like Baton Pass or Tail Whip. Not sure if there is a way to do a luring move like Charm, Fake Tears, or Facade. Last Resort would probably be incorporated in some way.
More generic things like Quick Attack, Take Down, or Double-Edge give it plenty of lateral rushing and mobility options. It has a several moves like Rest, Dig, Skull Bash, Hyper Voice, Double Team, Substitute, and Rage that may not be necessary to its kit but are options nonetheless.
I've seen lots of movesets focused around the Let's Go partner-exclusive moves if that's your fancy.
And of course you can also fill out the moveset with some made-up moves that still fit the theme of playful pestering and general cuteness, as Eevee has plenty of personality to pull from.

This is obviously not a full-on moveset concept or anything, just a back-of-the-napkin listing of several of its move options.

Also it's a quadruped if you're into that.

 

[Opossum]

I dunno why we wouldn't count Spirits. They're part of the game.

It's "celebration of gaming" not "celebration of gaming as playable characters".

As likely as Nintendo's willingness to pay. Konami will license out anything these days.

And in general I agree! I was just responding to the post in the way they wrote it, ie what's missing "major"/interactive content.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

And in general I agree! I was just responding to the post in the way they wrote it, ie what's missing "major"/interactive content.

Yeah this was my point, spirits are cool and all but most people dont really pay attention to them compared to main games stages or characters or even a piece of music

 

[Sucumbio]

Yeah this was my point, spirits are cool and all but most people dont really pay attention to them compared to main games stages or characters or even a piece of music

God can you imagine the riot if we ONLY got Castlevania music? Unless it was all from SotN then ok.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/pokemon-company-game-releases-takato-utsunomiya-interview/

I think Pokemon is dealing with the growing pains it has had and is looking at solutions for keeping the games up to standard. Combine that with them probably wanting a game for their 30th anniversary, I could see us getting Gen X then.

 

[chocolatejr9]

https://comicbook.com/gaming/news/pokemon-company-game-releases-takato-utsunomiya-interview/

I think Pokemon is dealing with the growing pains it has had and is looking at solutions for keeping the games up to standard. Combine that with them probably wanting a game for their 30th anniversary, I could see us getting Gen X then.

The question is, how will they go about fixing the issue? Will they just hire more people and hope for the best? Get help from another studio like ILCA? Will they be desperate enough to actually, gasp, give Game Freak more time?

 

[Hadokeyblade]

The question is, how will they go about fixing the issue? Will they just hire more people and hope for the best? Get help from another studio like ILCA? Will they be desperate enough to actually, gasp, give Game Freak more time?

"But if we hire more people we will go beyond 151 people in the building!! We cant have that!!"
-Gamefreak probably.

 

[DarthEnderX]

God can you imagine the riot if we ONLY got Castlevania music? Unless it was all from SotN then ok.

SotN isn't even the Castlevania game with the best music.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

So, what do you guys think of the Persona's status in Smash? It's rather well represented, even if it could fit P2 somewhere in there. There isn't any issue with the content there, it just needs more. I'm not sure what a good Persona AT would be though. If Joker stays a character, would it be a P5 character? Would they use the opportunity to represent another Persona game?


And perhaps the elephant in the room... Even though Joker is a really popular inclusion, I think Persona is one of the third parties most at risk of being cut in the next game. Joker's inclusion, while earth shaking, relied more on timing then most inclusions. It's almost like the Smash team took advantage of Persona 5's huge momentum. Now that Persona 5's momentum has slowed down, can Persona and Joker stay on their own merits? The franchise is major enough to be included for sure, and its not like Persona stopped being popular or successful. But its not an industry mainstay like Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. It doesn't have ties to Nintendo like Mega Man, Banjo Kazooie or Bayonetta. I'm also not sure how easy Atlus is to work with. They didn't approve literally everything like SNK did and their relationship with Nintendo isn't obvious. Being owned by Sega helps, as Sega seems in it for the long haul.

I just can't shake the feeling that Joker might be in trouble.

 

[osby]

So, what do you guys think of the Persona's status in Smash? It's rather well represented, even if it could fit P2 somewhere in there. There isn't any issue with the content there, it just needs more. I'm not sure what a good Persona AT would be though. If Joker stays a character, would it be a P5 character? Would they use the opportunity to represent another Persona game?

I think the most obvious inclusion would be Spirits from previous games, as well as more music. I think we can at least get more tracks from spin-offs and the first three games, although I'm not sure how they'd handle the look of Mementos if they do that.

A good Persona AT might be Futaba, as she's the only Phantom Thief who doesn't appear in Mementos. If they want to represent other games, Elizabeth, Aigis, Yu or Teddie would be good choices, among others.

And perhaps the elephant in the room... Even though Joker is a really popular inclusion, I think Persona is one of the third parties most at risk of being cut in the next game. Joker's inclusion, while earth shaking, relied more on timing then most inclusions. It's almost like the Smash team took advantage of Persona 5's huge momentum. Now that Persona 5's momentum has slowed down, can Persona and Joker stay on their own merits? The franchise is major enough to be included for sure, and its not like Persona stopped being popular or successful. But its not an industry mainstay like Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. It doesn't have ties to Nintendo like Mega Man, Banjo Kazooie or Bayonetta. I'm also not sure how easy Atlus is to work with. They didn't approve literally everything like SNK did and their relationship with Nintendo isn't obvious. Being owned by Sega helps, as Sega seems in it for the long haul.

I just can't shake the feeling that Joker might be in trouble.

It can go both ways.

Joker is definitely smaller than most other third parties in Smash and if the next game has a smaller cast, there's a good chance he might be left behind. However, I'm not worried about ATLUS. If anything, they're more than happy to lend the Persona license to other companies, as seen by the number of crossover appearances Joker alone made and how many Persona spin-offs are actually collaboration projects with other companies. They also seem to have a good relationship with Nintendo as evidenced by how many Persona games are coming to Switch lately and how SMT V is straight-up published by the Big N in PAL regions.

One might make a case for P6 overshadowing P5, hence making Joker seem redundant in hindsight but it's too early to make that kind of claim.

 

[Idon]

If Sakurai stays as head of smash,
Which he will because of course he will,
Joker stays for the rest of every smash ever.

He is insanely in love with that game, even moreso than his babies Kirby and KIU, and I think he will only ever change his stance on it MAYBE if he likes P6 more... and even then I think he'd rather put multiple persona protags in than kill his fav.

 

[osby]

If Sakurai stays as head of smash,
Which he will because of course he will,
Joker stays for the rest of every smash ever.

He is insanely in love with that game, even moreso than his babies Kirby and KIU, and I think he will only ever change his stance on it MAYBE if he likes P6 more... and even then I think he'd rather put multiple persona protags in than kill his fav.

I was going to ask how SMT fans are handling Joker's inclusion in Smash 5 years later but I think I got my answer.

 

[TheLamerGamer]

So, what do you guys think of the Persona's status in Smash? It's rather well represented, even if it could fit P2 somewhere in there. There isn't any issue with the content there, it just needs more. I'm not sure what a good Persona AT would be though. If Joker stays a character, would it be a P5 character? Would they use the opportunity to represent another Persona game?


And perhaps the elephant in the room... Even though Joker is a really popular inclusion, I think Persona is one of the third parties most at risk of being cut in the next game. Joker's inclusion, while earth shaking, relied more on timing then most inclusions. It's almost like the Smash team took advantage of Persona 5's huge momentum. Now that Persona 5's momentum has slowed down, can Persona and Joker stay on their own merits? The franchise is major enough to be included for sure, and its not like Persona stopped being popular or successful. But its not an industry mainstay like Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. It doesn't have ties to Nintendo like Mega Man, Banjo Kazooie or Bayonetta. I'm also not sure how easy Atlus is to work with. They didn't approve literally everything like SNK did and their relationship with Nintendo isn't obvious. Being owned by Sega helps, as Sega seems in it for the long haul.

I just can't shake the feeling that Joker might be in trouble.

ATLUS and Nintendo have a great relationship, so I'd be surprised if they weren't represented in the next game, and P5's so popular I can't see them cutting Joker in favour of anyone.

For the assist trophy I've thought for a while it should be Igor summoning persona using either tarot cards or the bone phone. Although if we got an SMT character (I can dream), that'd have to be their gimmick, so I'm not sure. If SMT wasn't represented with a character Jack Frost (or the jack bros doing their P3 fusion spell) would be nice.

Beyond that, it not having anything from 1&2 (Igor uses his P5 art and Aria of the Soul is based on its P3 version) is my biggest issue, but there being nothing from 3FES/Portable, or any spinoffs (other than 1 spirit) feels off.

If Joker returns I'd expect some stuff from P5S and P3Re at least though.

 

[Gengar84]

I’m really happy that Joker made it into Smash but his moveset isn’t really what I was hoping to see. I really wanted him to be a summoner type character that used various different Personas for his specials. What they ended up going for instead works too but is a bit less exciting. I’m not nearly as familiar with SMT as I am Persona but maybe an SMT character could go with that. I know both series use the same monsters so that could work. I still need to get around to trying SMT V. It looks good but I have such a big backlog already that I’m not sure when I’ll find the time.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

So, what do you guys think of the Persona's status in Smash? It's rather well represented, even if it could fit P2 somewhere in there. There isn't any issue with the content there, it just needs more. I'm not sure what a good Persona AT would be though. If Joker stays a character, would it be a P5 character? Would they use the opportunity to represent another Persona game?


And perhaps the elephant in the room... Even though Joker is a really popular inclusion, I think Persona is one of the third parties most at risk of being cut in the next game. Joker's inclusion, while earth shaking, relied more on timing then most inclusions. It's almost like the Smash team took advantage of Persona 5's huge momentum. Now that Persona 5's momentum has slowed down, can Persona and Joker stay on their own merits? The franchise is major enough to be included for sure, and its not like Persona stopped being popular or successful. But its not an industry mainstay like Sonic, Street Fighter or Final Fantasy. It doesn't have ties to Nintendo like Mega Man, Banjo Kazooie or Bayonetta. I'm also not sure how easy Atlus is to work with. They didn't approve literally everything like SNK did and their relationship with Nintendo isn't obvious. Being owned by Sega helps, as Sega seems in it for the long haul.

I just can't shake the feeling that Joker might be in trouble.

I think they put themselves into a corner by making the logo for Persona specifically a P5 related symbol instead of something generic like with Final fantasy.

Because now it would look awkward if we ever got Yu in smash, which would make perfect sense for a second Persona rep if they ever did that, since Persona 4 is considered one of the greatest RPG's of all time.

I think them being a Sega character and Sega being a main part of Smash at this point helps for Persona to come back.

 

[fogbadge]

I think they put themselves into a corner by making the logo for Persona specifically a P5 related symbol instead of something generic like with Final fantasy.

Because now it would look awkward if we ever got Yu in smash, which would make perfect sense for a second Persona rep if they ever did that, since Persona 4 is considered one of the greatest RPG's of all time.

I think them being a Sega character and Sega being a main part of Smash at this point helps for Persona to come back.

they could change the symbol

 

[Idon]

they could change the symbol

This.

Look at Snake's logo change for a good example.

 

[Idon]

I was going to ask how SMT fans are handling Joker's inclusion in Smash 5 years later but I think I got my answer.

Not sure what exactly this has to do with Persona's likelihood in Smash but I would appreciate less backhanded statements like this, thanks.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

saw AT idea talk earlier and i may be late but... who'd you prefer as an Assist Trophy for Tekken and FF7?

I'd say maybe Alisa Bosconovitch or Kuma for Tekken, and Cait Sith with Slots and the possibility for Joker Death which insta KO's everybody on field Aerith for FF7 with Healing Wind. bonus points for the lulz - ONLY Sephiroth can KO her

 

[Perkilator]

saw AT idea talk earlier and i may be late but... who'd you prefer as an Assist Trophy for Tekken and FF7?

I'd say maybe Alisa Bosconovitch or Kuma for Tekken, and Cait Sith with Slots and the possibility for Joker Death which insta KO's everybody on field Aerith for FF7 with Healing Wind. bonus points for the lulz - ONLY Sephiroth can KO her

This reply is assuming they were added to Ultimate’s base game.

For Tekken, I’d say Heihachi; for FF7, Tifa.

 

[osby]

saw AT idea talk earlier and i may be late but... who'd you prefer as an Assist Trophy for Tekken and FF7?

I'd say maybe Alisa Bosconovitch or Kuma for Tekken, and Cait Sith with Slots and the possibility for Joker Death which insta KO's everybody on field Aerith for FF7 with Healing Wind. bonus points for the lulz - ONLY Sephiroth can KO her

If I had to pick the most fitting characters for the role: Xiaoyu and Tifa.

Lili and Barret, if we're going from pure bias.

 

[Idon]

I’m really happy that Joker made it into Smash but his moveset isn’t really what I was hoping to see. I really wanted him to be a summoner type character that used various different Personas for his specials. What they ended up going for instead works too but is a bit less exciting. I’m not nearly as familiar with SMT as I am Persona but maybe an SMT character could go with that. I know both series use the same monsters so that could work. I still need to get around to trying SMT V. It looks good but I have such a big backlog already that I’m not sure when I’ll find the time.

I've said this before but I think Joker's moveset really does not require this type of summoning. That type of combat is associated with indirect combat users and while it it is somewhat accurate to how fights play out in Persona, it does not represent the "fantasy" or "feeling" of the character- being a fast thief that slips around people.

Moreover, using just his personal Persona solidies his unique identity, having it perform exclusively for him and with his own custom elemental effects as opposed to Joker using designs from decades before his time.

If I could perhaps change anything about his moveset, it would be giving Arsene more autonomy instead of tying it to his back, but I can see why they went with this.

 

[Gengar84]

saw AT idea talk earlier and i may be late but... who'd you prefer as an Assist Trophy for Tekken and FF7?

I'd say maybe Alisa Bosconovitch or Kuma for Tekken, and Cait Sith with Slots and the possibility for Joker Death which insta KO's everybody on field Aerith for FF7 with Healing Wind. bonus points for the lulz - ONLY Sephiroth can KO her

I don’t know a lot of Tekken characters but I’ve always been a fan of Eddie Gordo. He could be fun with his capoeira fighting style. My favorite Final Fantasy VII character after Sephiroth is Vincent Valentine. He’s got a lot of interesting abilities that could make for a good assist trophy but I think pretty much any of the cast could work really well.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Speaking of the symbols in this series, i wonder if Kingdom hearts's symbol is a result of them not being able to use any other symbols from the series.

The crown on Sora's necklace isnt exactly the icon i think of when i think of Kingdom hearts, i would think the heart on the franchise's logo would have made more sense.

 

[fogbadge]

Speaking of the symbols in this series, i wonder if Kingdom hearts's symbol is a result of them not being able to use any other symbols from the series.

The crown on Sora's necklace isnt exactly the icon i think of when i think of Kingdom hearts, i would think the heart on the franchise's logo would have made more sense.

yes I would have thought they’d go with that as well. but I don’t think they wouldn’t have been allowed

 

[Gengar84]

Speaking of the symbols in this series, i wonder if Kingdom hearts's symbol is a result of them not being able to use any other symbols from the series.

The crown on Sora's necklace isnt exactly the icon i think of when i think of Kingdom hearts, i would think the heart on the franchise's logo would have made more sense.

Mega Man’s Smash logo is a bit odd as well. I would have thought his helmet would have made more sense than a gear.

Something like this from evilwaluigi on Deviantart:

 

[osby]

Mega Man’s Smash logo is a bit odd as well. I would have thought his helmet would have made more sense than a gear.

Smash Wiki tells me that it's mostly a symbol associated with Mega Man in Japan:

 

[Hadokeyblade]

yes I would have thought they’d go with that as well. but I don’t think they wouldn’t have been allowed

Just watch, Nomura is going to make that Necklace actually plot relevant in KH4 which will retroactively make this logo make sense.

That sounds like something he would do.

 

[Laniv]

Ehhhhhh, I think the crown symbol works well enough for Kingdom Hearts. It's the necklace that Sora wears, and the Kingdom Key's teeth, and the fade-in symbol for Hollow Bastion in KH2. It works fine, honestly a little better than the curled heart.

Mega Man's symbol really should have been the helmet though.

Also, relevant jan misali video:

 

[Gengar84]

Smash Wiki tells me that it's mostly a symbol associated with Mega Man in Japan:

View attachment 376211

Interesting. I wasn’t really aware of that. Thanks for the info.

Another series that has kind of a disappointing icon is Final Fantasy. I feel like a crystal would have been more interesting than just the letters FF.

 

[fogbadge]

Just watch, Nomura is going to make that Necklace actually plot relevant in KH4 which will retroactively make this logo make sense.

That sounds like something he would do.

maybe the master of masters made it

 

[chocolatejr9]

Interesting. I wasn’t really aware of that. Thanks for the info.

Another series that has kind of a disappointing icon is Final Fantasy. I feel like a crystal would have been more interesting than just the letters FF.

Well, you know how SE can be with their FFs...